The Green Lesbian is back! Learn sm4sh Samus from Brawl's best Samus player! Updated 2/19/2015!

[ZmazhCrew]

4. This sounds bad but please take what you have found/learned with Samus and share it with fellow Samus users. The more of us working on a character the more she will grow. I know many of us want to be "the best samus" but id much prefer to see Samus higher than low tier this generation. I think she is Mid mid tier or high mid tier but we will see.

I remember messaging you a few years ago after hearing claims of you being "the best samus" and your response didn't seem the least bit cocky. But this post right here proves you are a humble player. kudos Xyro.

 

[Xyro77]

Let's see the message.

 

[kxiong92]

Have anyone try dthrow to utilt to utilt to UpB? It seems to be a true combo against some of the cast at low percent. I've tried it on ROB and Meta Knight, and it works against them.

 

[Xyro77]

Almost nothing is a true combo except Dthrow to fair or UAIR on certain characters.

Most combos or strings we land are because of bad DI/no DI or lack of MU knowledge.

 

[FlAlex]

Almost nothing is a true combo except Dthrow to fair or UAIR on certain characters.

Most combos or strings we land are because of bad DI/no DI or lack of MU knowledge.

Is that true for all characters or just a section of the cast?

 

[Afro Smash]

im pretty sure a few characters can di away from the down throw to avoid fair/uair, Greninja is the only one i know for a fact that can do it at basically any percent. The only thing you can do is zair to follow up, and if they start air dodging then just run underneath them and dash attack. If they air dodge then jump though then there's not really anything you can do to punish it

 

[Xyro77]

Is that true for all characters or just a section of the cast?

The Dthrow to fair/Uair only misses a few characters but all those strings/combo mentioned in the other threads are strictly do-able if the for DIs bad or doesnt DI at all.

 

[FlAlex]

The Dthrow to fair/Uair only misses a few characters but all those strings/combo mentioned in the other threads are strictly do-able if the for DIs bad or doesnt DI at all.

No, no. Want I meant was do other characters have Samus' lack of true combos/ DI out-able combos? How many in the roster have this problem?

 

[Xyro77]

No, no. Want I meant was do other characters have Samus' lack of true combos/ DI out-able combos? How many in the roster have this problem?

Lots of characters have this problem. It's because smash 4 uses a version of Brawls engine. True combos are very lacking.

 

[FlAlex]

Lots of characters have this problem. It's because smash 4 uses a version of Brawls engine. True combos are very lacking.

Why not just make a new engine?

 

[Xyro77]

Why not just make a new engine?

Lol I don't know. Call up Nintendo

 

[LimitCrown]

I don't think that it's necessarily bad that true combos aren't very long or prevalent for many characters.

 

[Xyro77]

I don't think that it's necessarily bad that true combos aren't very long or prevalent for many characters.

I think it's bad for sure. Many characters end up low tier simply because they cannot string moves.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Guys, there are lots and lots of true combos. Literally tons, at all sorts of percentages, perhaps more than any other character. The multi up-air chains may be DI-able but you're in there too, fighting for that combo to continue using your own DI to counter them, picking the correct combo finisher if the up-air will miss, and there are plenty of no-DI escape combos. I'm almost done my mega detailed list.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Guys, there are lots and lots of true combos. Literally tons, at all sorts of percentages, perhaps more than any other character. The multi up-air chains may be DI-able but you're in there too, fighting for that combo to continue using your own DI to counter them, picking the correct combo finisher if the up-air will miss, and there are plenty of no-DI escape combos. I'm almost done my mega detailed list.

Howbare you compiling it? I was working on an info graphic detilaing combos. If you're making it a word doc or whatever maybe we cooperate on that.

 

[Remzi]

Samus with customs is really, really solid. I'm confused as to why people tend to prefer slip bomb over mega bomb though... I can't find any justification to take something as useful as mega bomb out of the line up.

 

[KayJay]

Slip Bomb makes the opponent trip, resulting in free fsmash kills. But I for myself can't live without the default bombs, if used correct, you can do some pretty effective combos with these bombs. Also the slip bombs are missing the high air-momentum which is very important to my playstyle.
In my video you can see some bomb combos.

 

[FlAlex]

Samus with customs is really, really solid. I'm confused as to why people tend to prefer slip bomb over mega bomb though... I can't find any justification to take something as useful as mega bomb out of the line up.

So you're the 1% who uses customs... (not making fun of you but I know that customs approved tourneys are rare). I wouldn't know how useful Samus' customs are. Those things are hard to get and tourneys allowing customs are so rare, I would rather just stick with the normal moveset. It isn't bad.

edit: If I remember correctly, the slip bombs also spikes airborne opponents? I think one of samus' bombs does. (it might just be link's meteor bomb)

 

[LimitCrown]

Slip Bomb is also a meteor smash when it hits aerial opponents.

 

[FlAlex]

Slip Bomb makes the opponent trip, resulting in free fsmash kills. But I for myself can't live without the default bombs, if used correct, you can do some pretty effective combos with these bombs. Also the slip bombs are missing the high air-momentum which is very important to my playstyle.
In my video you can see some bomb combos.

Nice video! Not sure if I really appreciate the long theatrical opening, but stylish and professional nonetheless. I am skeptical that some of the "combos" you pulled off were probably on people who don't know how to DI and I highly doubt those are "true" combos. Also, the bomb combos feel like you got them either because the opponent did something silly to get into that position or you got really lucky with those. I would have to see these in a high tourney setting before I say those are viable on people who play the game seriously.

That being said....you kicked some @$$ with the bounty-hunted and totaled high tier characters. That video left a great taste in my mouth.

Edit: Been looking through some of your other vids. Nice stuff. Especially that one against Daeren(Robin) (how do you pronounce that name? Just curious). Still think that Upair>UpAir>Screwattack combo was lucky of you because I don't see too much of that awesome sauce from that combo video in any of these other ones.

I notice quite a few differences between what I've normally seen and what you do. You LOVE Fair, which I cannot agree on. Hate the lag on it and I wish to keep it from staling Because killing with it is reliable and easy. Overall, you are very aggressive for a Samus. I like that.
What is your take on Nair? I notice you don't use it often but I've heard others talk about how it can snuff out air dodges, which you handle with reads (sometimes risky ones, especially the Dair attacks that are just above the ground. I know Samus can SH>Dair for no landing lag but I don't know if I would use it THAT often.)

Hope to see more from you!

 

[KayJay]

Nice video! Not sure if I really appreciate the long theatrical opening, but stylish and professional nonetheless. I am skeptical that some of the "combos" you pulled off were probably on people who don't know how to DI and I highly doubt those are "true" combos. Also, the bomb combos feel like you got them either because the opponent did something silly to get into that position or you got really lucky with those. I would have to see these in a high tourney setting before I say those are viable on people who play the game seriously.

That being said....you kicked some @$$ with the bounty-hunted and totaled high tier characters. That video left a great taste in my mouth.

You can see an example here in action against a decent ZSS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBE0vI2y8os
Time: 1:01. I canceled the B-charging with shield + jump and then started my bomb setup. It somehow replaces Samus's escapeable second jab, the explosion from the bomb is like a true second jab, when it connects you have many followup-options.
Btw. you can also see a B-reversal charge shot from the ledge at 1:46, sadly not fully charged.

Edit: Been looking through some of your other vids. Nice stuff. Especially that one against Daeren(Robin) (how do you pronounce that name? Just curious). Still think that Upair>UpAir>Screwattack combo was lucky of you because I don't see too much of that awesome sauce from that combo video in any of these other ones.

I notice quite a few differences between what I've normally seen and what you do. You LOVE Fair, which I cannot agree on. Hate the lag on it and I wish to keep it from staling Because killing with it is reliable and easy. Overall, you are very aggressive for a Samus. I like that.
What is your take on Nair? I notice you don't use it often but I've heard others talk about how it can snuff out air dodges, which you handle with reads (sometimes risky ones, especially the Dair attacks that are just above the ground. I know Samus can SH>Dair for no landing lag but I don't know if I would use it THAT often.)

Hope to see more from you!

Upair > Upair > Up B is a true combo at low % if you input it frameperfect they can't airdodge the Up B. They can DI out of it but at low % it doesn't seem so.

Fair starts at Frame 6 where as Nair starts at frame 8.
In a Full Jump I only use nair instead of a Fair when I know that Fair won't connect (meaning the opponent isn't high enough to fully land a Fair).
Also, a perfect framed FJ Fair can be landing canceled with a Nair/Bair, it's a pretty nice frametrap and viable.
At 0%, dthrow > SH Fair can lead into a chaingrab if the opponent doesn't jump (Video-example), when you try this with SHNair, the opponent has more time to calculate the situation and react with a jump.

 

[Xyro77]

Please take custom move talk to the custom move thread. My thread is about REAL samus.



edit: updated OP with more info. Namely, reads

 

[Afro Smash]

Did some testing and some of the move damage percents need to be updated:

Nair (2nd hit sourspot) = 6% (you get this by landing on them with your leg already extended)

Bair (sourspot) = 9% (you get this by landing on them with your leg already extended)

Forward Smash (Point Blank) = 12%-16.8%
Forward Smash (Tipped) = 14%-19.5%

Forward Smash Up (Point Blank) = 13%-18%
Forward Smash Up (Tipped) = 15%-21%

Forward Smash Down (Point Blank) = 11%-15.4%
Forward Smash Down (Tipped) = 13.5%-18.5%

Down Smash (1st hit) = 10%-14%
Down Smash (2nd hit) = 12%-16.8%

Screw Attack (all hits) = 12%

Not sure how to name the nair and bair sourpots, ill leave that up to you. And you dont necessarily have to add the full charge damage percents, but i see no reason not to

 

[Xyro77]

Only 2 needed to be changed. Thank you, dude.

 

[CaveBoy]

I've been messing around with Down B bombs and find that its really effective on Diddy. I set it up buy rolling to bait the chase, then Down B the way I came and when they turn around for the chase I catch them with a F Smash. My other favorite use of the bomb is after the kill (After a Charge built up) when they land they come after me. I jump above them and drop a Bomb and DI back the way I came. This usually baits them into a F Smash the opposite way I came from, giving me a grab or a Charge hit. I prefer Charge B because Some characters smash attacks send them forward out of range and B is more powerful.

 

[Xygonn]

In terms of "Universal Techniques" that Samus can use, you should probably add the instant wall hop. It's a great get up option for Samus. Instant wall hop -> bair is tasty.

I know the tech itself is a bit old. It is shown in this video (with megaman, but it works the same for samus).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeC-9YYqfEY

 

[Xyro77]

I'll add that tech, xygon.

 

[CaveBoy]

I'm just wondering, but do any of you try and keep a Stale move tracker in your head when playing? I do, like, if I use a charge shot then I switch to jabs and pummel on my grabs for a second before I use another one. I feel playing this way keeps me in a pattern of offensive and defensive play styles and gives me more bang for my buck on my punishes.

 

[FlAlex]

I'm just wondering, but do any of you try and keep a Stale move tracker in your head when playing? I do, like, if I use a charge shot then I switch to jabs and pummel on my grabs for a second before I use another one. I feel playing this way keeps me in a pattern of offensive and defensive play styles and gives me more bang for my buck on my punishes.

I try but I have difficulty NOT getting my upair stale. That's her go to aerial attack and all her other ones have more specialized/niche uses. What I am trying to do specifically is keep upair fresh enough to be a kill move and resort to nair and fair as my go to aerial attacks. Honestly though, with the roofs on some stages so high, it's probably best to save Fair, dair, and nair as the kill moves and rely on upair.

 

[CaveBoy]

I try but I have difficulty NOT getting my upair stale. That's her go to aerial attack and all her other ones have more specialized/niche uses. What I am trying to do specifically is keep upair fresh enough to be a kill move and resort to nair and fair as my go to aerial attacks. Honestly though, with the roofs on some stages so high, it's probably best to save Fair, dair, and nair as the kill moves and rely on upair.

Have you though of using Screw Attack for kills? I stale Uair a lot too. I have found that Uair and Screw attack are really good if the enemy chases you up into the air. Get a dodge and Screw Attack. I kill Sonic at 60% sometimes because how high he chases me.

 

[FlAlex]

Have you though of using Screw Attack for kills? I stale Uair a lot too. I have found that Uair and Screw attack are really good if the enemy chases you up into the air. Get a dodge and Screw Attack. I kill Sonic at 60% sometimes because how high he chases me.

Screw attack misses result in extreme loss of defenses. Too risky for my taste, so I rarely use screw attack as an offensive option.

 

[Xygonn]

Screw attack misses result in extreme loss of defenses. Too risky for my taste, so I rarely use screw attack as an offensive option.

Only use it when it is safe. After you bait an air dodge or if they lock into an attack you can punish. Usually a dair or Nair. The invincibility frames really make it great if you can time it you can basically go through anything.

 

[CaveBoy]

It also depends on the MU, for the like of me I can't catch Shiek with a Screw Attack ever. Characters who use their aerials very directionally aren't every easy to catch with Screw Attack, like Captain Falcon or Shiek. Diddy is doable but you gotta practice the signs when you can use it. Air Dodge a non-Hoo Hah Uair and you got it.

 

[FlAlex]

Only use it when it is safe. After you bait an air dodge or if they lock into an attack you can punish. Usually a dair or Nair. The invincibility frames really make it great if you can time it you can basically go through anything.

My opponents rarely make it a safe option. Decent spacing and either a lack of respect or too much respect for my OoS options makes screwattack a cumbersome play. Doesn't help I don't give screw attack the best opportunities. Usually resort to Upair or Zair.
I just don't feel comfortable using it except when reading a roll or going for a safe Upair>screwattack combo.

 

[CaveBoy]

My opponents rarely make it a safe option. Decent spacing and either a lack of respect or too much respect for my OoS options makes screwattack a cumbersome play. Doesn't help I don't give screw attack the best opportunities. Usually resort to Upair or Zair.
I just don't feel comfortable using it except when reading a roll or going for a safe Upair>screwattack combo.

Completely fair. It's the difference between play style.

OK, this video was posted by somebody else in another threa, but we were talking about Bombs and if they can be used in the game. This guy seems to use them pretty good to cover the edges. I'm not sure if any of us would have any comments about this, because mainly I've noticed that bombs are often punished for how open you stay for an attack after using one. But if there is a option for using bombs without taking the risk of taking damage, then maybe it's worth taking a shot at it.

I've been playing with some pretty good players and I'm having troubles landing some grabs and Air fsmash. When would you recommend using mostly the Grabs for Samus? Because I'm oftenlly getting punished for failed grabs because of the starting lag. And would you guys recommend using Short Hop Air fsmash? I keep trying, but it doesn't work for me.

I really only been playing against Shiek lately for some reason, but the Bomb is a great answer for Shiek's Dash attack. The hit stun opens her up for a Fsmash or a Grab. I find the best land for it is just behind, don't go maximum distance away from it.

Would anyone like to practice? I would love to fight some of you

 

[FlAlex]

Would anyone like to practice? I would love to fight some of you

So...u wanna kick my arse?
I only have the wiiu available.
PM me if ready.

 

[EnGarde]

Might be worth looking into custom moves in the near future, at least to ensure Samus has the best custom sets available during EVO.

http://evo.shoryuken.com/additional-rules/

Quote of the relevant section:

Super Smash Bros for WiiU

• Game version: US Nintendo WiiU
• Game Settings: 2 Stock, 5 Minute Time Limit, Items Off, Equipment Off, 2/3 Games
• Custom moves are allowed.
• Starter stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Lylat Cruise, Town & City
• Counter-pick stages: Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt, Halberd
• Winning player is not locked into the same character for the next match, but has to pick before loser selects character.
• You may not choose a stage you have already won on unless mutually agreed to.

EDIT: Further thoughts: http://smashboards.com/threads/customs-evo-and-making-sets.392449/

 

[Xyro77]

Please custom move talk to the custom
Move thread stickied here on the samus boards.

This thread (my thread) is about REAL samus.

 

[GameBird]

Made an account today and wanted to reply to KayJay specifically. Your video is super cool and really makes me want to up my Samus game.

I've always felt that Samus in the most diverse character in the smash bros game with tons of freedom for many styles of play. Like if you play as Ike (at least in Brawl) it's A A A I WIN. But It's weird that people pick on Samus a lot. I feel she's like the most interesting and versatile character. I mean yeah I have a huge bias as Metroid is my favorite game franchise, but she's heavy meaning she lives a long time, is floaty so she isn't juggled easily, has great recovery, good range, and a good pressure and projectile game and is good at spacing. In smash 4 they buffed her even more to be faster, and all her smash attacks and up b can kill at low %s now. I just feel that it takes actual skill and talent to become a good Samus player, while other characters are not so hard to get good with.

Regardless, I wanted to join the forums and try to get better at Smash. All games preferably but for now, Smash 4 specifically.

Hello!

 

[FlAlex]

Made an account today and wanted to reply to KayJay specifically. Your video is super cool and really makes me want to up my Samus game.

I've always felt that Samus in the most diverse character in the smash bros game with tons of freedom for many styles of play. Like if you play as Ike (at least in Brawl) it's A A A I WIN. But It's weird that people pick on Samus a lot. I feel she's like the most interesting and versatile character. I mean yeah I have a huge bias as Metroid is my favorite game franchise, but she's heavy meaning she lives a long time, is floaty so she isn't juggled easily, has great recovery, good range, and a good pressure and projectile game and is good at spacing. In smash 4 they buffed her even more to be faster, and all her smash attacks and up b can kill at low %s now. I just feel that it takes actual skill and talent to become a good Samus player, while other characters are not so hard to get good with.

Regardless, I wanted to join the forums and try to get better at Smash. All games preferably but for now, Smash 4 specifically.

Hello!

Welcome aboard and happy hunting!