The Green Lesbian is back! Learn sm4sh Samus from Brawl's best Samus player! Updated 2/19/2015!

[leiraD]

I'm about the same bro. The only other things I kill with are the occasional nair/fair/dair off stage, or charge shot. @ Xyro77 posted a video where he does a dirty zair kill, but I've never seen anyone else do that.

 

[Luviant X]

I forgot to mention charge shot. I agree. That Xyro zair kill was very nice.

 

[Xyro77]

Though she has other Kill moves, Samus's best/easiest kill moves are:

Charge shot
Fsmash
Up+b
Dair

You may be having trouble killing because your kill moves are stale or maybe you are picking huge stages like FD.

Use UAIR a lot. On shields (it might shield poke), punishing air dodges....etc. Doing that will build damage AND refresh kill moves. Zair also refreshes moves (new thing in smash 4) so try to hit with as many as you can. Also, if you land a grab, pummel 2-3 times because that refreshes moves and builds damage. Make sure you throw them UP so that as they try to come back to the stage you are in a great position to do Uair their air dodge for more damage/refresh.

Look, Samus (along with many other low kill power characters) need to make the most of what they have in order to build damage, keep kill moves fresh and then be able to land the kill move. That's why I recommend taking advantage of stuff that would normally be over looked like Zair, pummel, throws...etc.

As for stages. Ban FD. No point in going toe to toe with 40 characters better at hand-to-hand combat than you. Stick to BF, lylat and smashvill/town and city. Counter picks Id def do Delfino, Halberd and anything with platforms. Rage+upB kills soooo early on platforms. Also, platforms provide relief from ground pressure. You can always up+b the attack or fall through the platform with a uair. Delfino and halberd have low ceilings, btw. This means all your Attacks should kill about 10-15% earlier than normal.

 

[Xyro77]

@ Xyro77 posted a video where he does a dirty zair kill, but I've never seen anyone else do that.

I got Zair kills all day in brawl. The concept and situations are the same in smash 4 but Zair is Nerfed so it's mega hard to get gimp kills.

 

[Xygonn]

Hey Xyro (or anyone),

I've been having trouble getting kills. My opponents have been surviving to high percentages because of it. For the most part, I get kills from Up + B, fmash (if I can land it), or edgeguarding aerials. Should I aim to land more fsmashes and bairs? What's your take?

Second question is, what are the best stages (in general and for counter picks such as Delfino or Duck Hunt) for Samus?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Just to add to Xyro's advice. If someone is air dodging your Uair/Up+B air juggles you can feint like you are coming straight from below, but then move to the side as they air dodge and bair. This is a good mix-up and a good kill move.

 

[FlAlex]

Hey Xyro (or anyone),

I've been having trouble getting kills. My opponents have been surviving to high percentages because of it. For the most part, I get kills from Up + B, fmash (if I can land it), or edgeguarding aerials. Should I aim to land more fsmashes and bairs? What's your take?

Second question is, what are the best stages (in general and for counter picks such as Delfino or Duck Hunt) for Samus?

Thanks in advance for the help.

It helps to know what these percentages are and what opponents your are facing. Killing is a problem most of the cast faces so I wouldn't be too worried if a bowser reaches 150 before you finally get him. If you're opponents plays extremely safely then I would expect them to survive to such high percentages.

By your list of killing moves it sounds like you just aren't aggressive enough/ aren't using your kill moves as often as you could.
If you aren't using Bair as a kill move you should integrate that into your game, but don't go fishing for them unsafely.

Whether or not you should be using any move depends on if the move is appropriate to use at the time. If you are reluctant to use FSmash when you could/should, then you will see some unused Fsmash opportunities in your replays. Only use Fsmash when you can/need to. This applies to all moves.

If your opponents don't leave themselves open to your kill moves, it's best to start pushing them towards the edge so you can gimp them.

Also, perhaps you could start using CS more as a kill move? It's my main source of KO's.

I can't help you with the stages as I don't get to play in tourneys.

Best of luck!

 

[Luviant X]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I play very defensively, so FIAlex hit the nail on the head. I rarely look for opportunities to Fsmash or Bair. Usually I don't like the idea of 'fishing' for kills, but I definitely need to use them when there's an opportunity.

And with Xyro, I'll try keep my moves fresh. Throwing opponents up will help me tremendously. And thanks for the stage advice. Going to be using the suggested stages at Xanadu tomorrow.

 

[Rohins]

Off stage fair has net me some gimps and kills. I think it's a solid option. I find it easiest to land vs those SRK style upBs (Mario, Lil Mac, CF, etc.)

 

[IsmaR]

Yeah agreed on F-air and B-air. I've also found N-air is useful (once you get the timing/speed down) for gimping/early ledge and offstage kills. Even the sourspots/weak hits from D-air and N-air are hella good for gimping.

 

[BlackCephie]

Fair offstage. Tricky charge shots.

 

[Xyro77]

Guys, I think it wouldn't hurt to look into this http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-cancel.386639/

 

[Xyro77]

I updated the OP with lots of info that will guarantee you better results.

 

[RoachCake]

Guys, I think it wouldn't hurt to look into this http:// smashboards.com/threads/frame-cancel.386639/

I'm currently testing to see if I can find some ways Samus can take advantage of this. I'll let you guys know if I find anything.

 

[Xyro77]

From what I am reading, I may have been doing this since brawl.

It seems like if you begin a high lag aerial on the first active frame of the attack and land with it, it will reduce lag.

If true, my FF uair to jab (or any move) makes sense.

Edit: shields void out this tech btw.

 

[RoachCake]

I may have done it. With D-air, at 10% on KDDD it makes him trip. Unless D-air already trips people at low %s

edit: D-air already trips at low %s.

 

[IsmaR]

If done correctly/perfectly, FF U-air > Jab comes out as a "true" combo, even on short characters. I used Duck Hunt for testing.

Having trouble finding anything else that links, besides Screw Attack.

 

[Xyro77]

Tournament tomorrow here in my city. I'll be attending but not expecting to do well. Samus is so bad and my region is stacked with lots of top tiers.

I'll post vids and results when I get back.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Tournament tomorrow here in my city. I'll be attending but not expecting to do well. Samus is so bad and my region is stacked with lots of top tiers.

I'll post vids and results when I get back.

Godspeed, Xyro. What tourney are you attending and will it be streamed? Have you considered dropping by DFW for the Shockwave Weekly?

 

[Xyro77]

It's called "Insomnia" and it will have 50 or more players.

3 of the top 5 players in our state live in Houston and they will all be there. Trela (Robin Shulk)/GrimTurtle (Falcon Morton)/FlipHop (diddy) and then other people on the top 10 like Dao (Diddy), Avoid (falcon) and BluBird (Luigi)....etc. It's gonna be hell. Not to mention I have MAJOR issues with MegaMan and we have 4 of those in Houston.


I don't go to Dallas weeklies because they use terrible rules like 2 stocks or custom moves. I've got all of houston to ban custom moves and use 3 stocks because of my huge smash tournament series.

 

[SanAntonioSmasher]

Any recommendations for controller setup for samus?

 

[Xyro77]

Yes. Use default controls or change shield button to the X or Y button (whichever one you don't use to jump with).


Edit: heading to the tournament now. I'll post a challonge bracket so you can see how well/bad I do.

 

[Xyro77]

http://challonge.com/smash4117



Edit:
Won my 1st match vs ZS. 2-0

Edit 2:
Won my 2nd match vs Fox/Villager. 2-0

Edit 3:
Won my 3rd match vs Mario. 2-1
I am in top 9 now.

Edit 4: lost my 4th match vs Falcon. 0-2
In losers now.

Edit 5: lost my 5th match vs megaman. 0-2. I'm out. Got 9th place.

 

[IsmaR]

Atta boy.

 

[Xyro77]

I'll go into details about certain MU In a day or so.

 

[Markpheus]

Question, is samus considered low tier right now?

 

[Xyro77]

Question, is samus considered low tier right now?

There is no official tier list right now but personally I think she is low tier as of this moment. Remembers, this is based off of my 3 months with the game lol. Things can and may change.

 

[Xyro77]

I just got 7th out of 76 at For Glory 4 last night.

http://smashboards.com/threads/4-glory-results-thread-shoutouts.389209/

I lost to a MegaMan and a GW. With the GW i could have done better (having invincible attacks is stupid) but the MegaMan MU is impossible. I honestly think this MU is an absolute counter to Samus. We have 3 MMs in my city and all play a little different but the one thing they all share in common is great pellet use. It cancels out tilts, jabs, grabs and pretty much any approach even if you power shield them. They stay so close to me i cant save up a charge shot (the one move that will go through pellets) and if i zair they just pellet it so that i cant use it or they will slide under it and punish.

I am very frustrated.

 

[BlackCephie]

I just got 7th out of 76 at For Glory 4 last night.

http://smashboards.com/threads/4-glory-results-thread-shoutouts.389209/

I lost to a MegaMan and a GW. With the GW i could have done better (having invincible attacks is stupid) but the MegaMan MU is impossible. I honestly think this MU is an absolute counter to Samus. We have 3 MMs in my city and all play a little different but the one thing they all share in common is great pellet use. It cancels out tilts, jabs, grabs and pretty much any approach even if you power shield them. They stay so close to me i cant save up a charge shot (the one move that will go through pellets) and if i zair they just pellet it so that i cant use it or they will slide under it and punish.

I am very frustrated.

Good stuff on the placement. I got 8th out of 80 in the sm4sh tourney at MAGfest last weekend, lost to Rosalina. That said, there is a very specific set of techniques I use against MM that I encourage you to try. One is dash pivot short hop missiles. What you get out of this is a retreat that puts you out of range of the pellets (MM isn't very fast while shooting) and the short hop means your missile doesn't get eaten up by the pellets instantly. I've practiced timing it to where a power missile goes over the pellets, but still travels low enough to headshot mega man or force him to shield. The other is taking him to the edge and forcing him to try to punish you with aerials. You can take advantage of his positioning to try an net early kills over the dropzone. One other thing is Either way its def an annoying matchup but through more encounters I think we can overcome the main hurdles.

 

[Xyro77]

Thanks to the patch that came out today for the 3ds, Samus has received a buff. Grounded spikes are not tech-able anymore. In the next few days, the patch will be on the WiiU

Though the full patch notes are not available, the community is looking through the game to see what has changed.

PLEASE test everything with Samus BEFORE YOU UPDATE and then test the same things again after you update.

All info on the patch can be found here: www.smashboards.com/threads/patch-1-05-analysis.390646/ lots of it isn't confirmed so please test this stuff yourself.

 

[LimitCrown]

It seems that meteor smashes that hit grounded opponents can still be teched, unfortunately.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

I just got 7th out of 76 at For Glory 4 last night.

http://smashboards.com/threads/4-glory-results-thread-shoutouts.389209/

I lost to a MegaMan and a GW. With the GW i could have done better (having invincible attacks is stupid) but the MegaMan MU is impossible. I honestly think this MU is an absolute counter to Samus. We have 3 MMs in my city and all play a little different but the one thing they all share in common is great pellet use. It cancels out tilts, jabs, grabs and pretty much any approach even if you power shield them. They stay so close to me i cant save up a charge shot (the one move that will go through pellets) and if i zair they just pellet it so that i cant use it or they will slide under it and punish.

I am very frustrated.

Damn friend. I need to have my tourney matches uploaded, but no stream and they were actually friendlies. This megaman I fought (ranked 15 on the norcal sm4sh PR) had a problem with my samus. I was power shielding his pellets, as you have done, but I committed to patience and looked for holes in his pellet pressure or waited until he wavered in his pressure so I could either create space. But either way I dealt with pellets, countering or tactically retreating, I made use of parrying the pellets and moving either a bit, or not at all. You really have to respect pellets when they are done right and you have no charge shot, so parry. Usually, the mega man will drift too close during the pressure so parry f tilt. The timing is strict so you have to really feel the rhythm of their pellets. And honestly, parrying isn't that hard once you get used to it (I don't mean to brag, but I started parrying on last saturday and I can use it really well now but I had hardcore practice against good projectile characters like yoshi, flaco, dedede, villager, etc. and that really helped).


Onto specifics on pellet styles, some megaman players use a pellet per short hop, constantly trying to maintaain spacing, while others may simply spam all three at once and run by jumping. The way I talked about dealing with pellets, I used a lot of power shielding. I have not fought recently against those who shot the three pellets at once so I can't give an accurate description on how to combat them. Mind telling me the way they used their pellets? I would love to help.

 

[Xyro77]

It seems that meteor smashes that hit grounded opponents can still be teched, unfortunately.

Ah ok so that was just made up stuff

Ugh

 

[IsmaR]

It's to be expected. Never trust anyone until actual frame data/info gets confirmed.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Let's hope they made the damn grounded tech window MUCH smaller. It's way to easy to tech in Smash4. 1 frame. Plz.

 

[Xygonn]

I believe that the first hit and the last hit (maybe 2nd to last?) are the ones that send you up to heaven.

If the foe DIs the first hit, they can skip all the other hits. If this happens, they will LAUNCH sky high and it can kill very early. The same thing kinda happens with either the final hit or the 2nd to final hit.

Kinda reminds me of the up+b OHKO with mii brawler. http://youtu.be/RoDlLOVvdT4

I checked out the frame data, and I'm not an expert but the fixed knockback on the first hit seems to be the one that would have a WTF type of knockback (though less than the one in punch). I want to see if the is any way to land this hit box alone reliably.

The first hit of piston punch is fixed 200 samus' screw attack is 180 which is less but not WAY less. Maybe enough to kill some lighter characters? (Cross fingers for Rosalina)

1. Screw Attack (???)
2. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/180w 95° 0.5-SDI
3. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/120w 95° 0.5-SDi

Piston Punch
Frame 4- 5: 3% 100f/200w 110°

 

[LimitCrown]

I checked out the frame data, and I'm not an expert but the fixed knockback on the first hit seems to be the one that would have a WTF type of knockback (though less than the one in punch). I want to see if the is any way to land this hit box alone reliably.

The first hit of piston punch is fixed 200 samus' screw attack is 180 which is less but not WAY less. Maybe enough to kill some lighter characters? (Cross fingers for Rosalina)

1. Screw Attack (???)
2. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/180w 95° 0.5-SDI
3. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/120w 95° 0.5-SDi

Piston Punch
Frame 4- 5: 3% 100f/200w 110°

I doubt there is a reliable way to have only that hitbox connect since that hitbox occurs only when the Screw Attack is used on the ground.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I can get that sole hitbox to land and it doesn't have any kill potential.

 

[Xyro77]

I've killed jiggs and rosalina on platforms and med weights on halberd/delfino.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Oh. Didn't think about platforms for some reason. My mistake..

 

[Xygonn]

Confirmed OHKO on jiggly only on battlefield while on top platform. It only works from grounded. This is actually a bigger find for peach. She has a OHKO on most characters on aerieal upb if she is high enough. With rage it might work on heavier characters.