evmaxy54
Smash Champion
Yea I think that this is the case.
From this I don't think this would work on Diddy nor Zelda because both their ledge animations are really low as well IIRC
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Data The Great Fairy Fountain II : Zelda Data & Research Repository
- Thread starter BJN39
- Start date
From this I don't think this would work on Diddy nor Zelda because both their ledge animations are really low as well IIRC
I've finally added custom Phantoms' datas to the 2nd post. Though I still need to work together the description later. That means all the customs are finally in the main posts!
...So I'm thinking of starting another data thread like this for another character. :3
:basketwh***: :fujin:
Edit : Test tables
Term in Question|Description
Move Name |The move's name. The names for just about every move were given back in Nintendo power magazines during Melee's younger years. The names of Phantom Slash and her customs, however, were given with the release of SSB4. The names of her misc. moves are placeholders as they were not given official names previously.
Hit-Frames |The frame window(s) when a hit-box is active.
FAF |First Actionable Frame. This is the first frame upon which you can execute another action.
Damage |The base damage(s) the move deals.
Hit-Angle |The knock-back trajectory of the hit-box. Note the unique trajectory types of the Sakurai Angle , and the Auto-Link Angle .
KO Potential |A rough number to estimate KO timings around, used by taking Mario's earliest percent on FD at which he was KO'ed by the move even with correct survival DI or Vectoring. The heaviest characters will cap at about 20% higher, while the lightest characters can be KO'ed around 20-30% earlier. I eventually cut off some moves with "N/A" if they couldn't KO by around the mid 200s.
Out of Shield |The earliest frame an attack will hit when used as an out of shield option.
Charge Frame (Smash Attacks) |The frame at which the character pauses to charge a smash attack.
Auto-Cancel (Aerials) |The frame windows during an aerial in which Zelda will land with normal landing instead of landing lag.
Landing Lag (Aerials) |The duration of time you will be forced to wait until you can act if you land an aerial during the landing lag window.
Term in Question|Description
Hit-Frame |The first frame a hit-box is present.
Duration |The total amount of frames a hit-box lasts.
ID |The order of priority if two or more hit-boxes are touching a target's hurt-box at the same time.
GID |Group ID. This signifies whether or not two hit-boxes will both hit if they're both overlapping on a hurt-box. If they are in the same group, only the one with the lowest ID will hit.
Bone |Which or whether the hit-box is connected to a certain bone on Zelda during its duration. If the bone is set to 0 the hit-box is not attached to any bone, but rather floating in a specified (By z/y/x) place.
Damage |The base damage the hit-box deals.
Angle |The knock-back trajectory of the hit-box. Note the unique trajectory types of the Sakurai Angle , (361) and the Auto-Link Angle . (365, 366, or 367)
BKB |Base Knock-back. The set minimum distance a hit-box will launch a target.
WKB |Weight-based Knock-back, also known as Set KB. A set KB distance calculated using the target's weight.
KBG |Knock-back Growth, also known as KB Scaling. This acts as a multiplier that increases the KB distance with damage.
Size |The length of the radius of the hit-bubble. (Hit-boxes in SSB4 are spherical.)
z/y/x |The displacement coordinates of the hit-box relative to any bone it is attached to. If the hit-box is set at Bone 0, then the origin starts exactly at the character's central axis and at the ground. (Note: If a hit-box attached to a bone has an altered y or z coordinate, this likely means it is actually actually displaced horizontally, like an x-axis change, from the bone due to how some bone-connections work.)
Hit-Lag |The "freeze-frames" when a hit-box connects with a target. Aside form increased or decreased multipliers, these freeze frames' length is partially dependent upon the damage of the move.
SDI |Smash Directional Influence. This is the multiplier of how strongly you can Smash Directional Influence the hit.
Clank? |Whether or not the hit-box will "clank" with other hit-boxes that can clank. If a move cannot clank it has transcending priority . An asterisk next to "yes" denotes that while the move will interact with other clankable hit-boxes, the animation will not be interrupted by the rebounding animation.
Shield Damage |How much additional shield damage the hit-box inflicts. 0 means it does no extra shield damage.
Notes |A place to note various other occasionally used quirks in hitboxes, such as angle flippers, rehit rates, stretchy/"extended" hitboxes, and airborne/grounded target modifiers.
...So I'm thinking of starting another data thread like this for another character. :3
And I'm probably doing Palutena.
:basketwh***: :fujin:Edit : Test tables
Move Name |The move's name. The names for just about every move were given back in Nintendo power magazines during Melee's younger years. The names of Phantom Slash and her customs, however, were given with the release of SSB4. The names of her misc. moves are placeholders as they were not given official names previously.
Hit-Frames |The frame window(s) when a hit-box is active.
FAF |First Actionable Frame. This is the first frame upon which you can execute another action.
Damage |The base damage(s) the move deals.
Hit-Angle |The knock-back trajectory of the hit-box. Note the unique trajectory types of the Sakurai Angle , and the Auto-Link Angle .
KO Potential |A rough number to estimate KO timings around, used by taking Mario's earliest percent on FD at which he was KO'ed by the move even with correct survival DI or Vectoring. The heaviest characters will cap at about 20% higher, while the lightest characters can be KO'ed around 20-30% earlier. I eventually cut off some moves with "N/A" if they couldn't KO by around the mid 200s.
Out of Shield |The earliest frame an attack will hit when used as an out of shield option.
Charge Frame (Smash Attacks) |The frame at which the character pauses to charge a smash attack.
Auto-Cancel (Aerials) |The frame windows during an aerial in which Zelda will land with normal landing instead of landing lag.
Landing Lag (Aerials) |The duration of time you will be forced to wait until you can act if you land an aerial during the landing lag window.
Hit-Frame |The first frame a hit-box is present.
Duration |The total amount of frames a hit-box lasts.
ID |The order of priority if two or more hit-boxes are touching a target's hurt-box at the same time.
GID |Group ID. This signifies whether or not two hit-boxes will both hit if they're both overlapping on a hurt-box. If they are in the same group, only the one with the lowest ID will hit.
Bone |Which or whether the hit-box is connected to a certain bone on Zelda during its duration. If the bone is set to 0 the hit-box is not attached to any bone, but rather floating in a specified (By z/y/x) place.
Damage |The base damage the hit-box deals.
Angle |The knock-back trajectory of the hit-box. Note the unique trajectory types of the Sakurai Angle , (361) and the Auto-Link Angle . (365, 366, or 367)
BKB |Base Knock-back. The set minimum distance a hit-box will launch a target.
WKB |Weight-based Knock-back, also known as Set KB. A set KB distance calculated using the target's weight.
KBG |Knock-back Growth, also known as KB Scaling. This acts as a multiplier that increases the KB distance with damage.
Size |The length of the radius of the hit-bubble. (Hit-boxes in SSB4 are spherical.)
z/y/x |The displacement coordinates of the hit-box relative to any bone it is attached to. If the hit-box is set at Bone 0, then the origin starts exactly at the character's central axis and at the ground. (Note: If a hit-box attached to a bone has an altered y or z coordinate, this likely means it is actually actually displaced horizontally, like an x-axis change, from the bone due to how some bone-connections work.)
Hit-Lag |The "freeze-frames" when a hit-box connects with a target. Aside form increased or decreased multipliers, these freeze frames' length is partially dependent upon the damage of the move.
SDI |Smash Directional Influence. This is the multiplier of how strongly you can Smash Directional Influence the hit.
Clank? |Whether or not the hit-box will "clank" with other hit-boxes that can clank. If a move cannot clank it has transcending priority . An asterisk next to "yes" denotes that while the move will interact with other clankable hit-boxes, the animation will not be interrupted by the rebounding animation.
Shield Damage |How much additional shield damage the hit-box inflicts. 0 means it does no extra shield damage.
Notes |A place to note various other occasionally used quirks in hitboxes, such as angle flippers, rehit rates, stretchy/"extended" hitboxes, and airborne/grounded target modifiers.
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evmaxy54
Smash Champion
Remember the times when people were freaking out about the whole instant get on the stage from the ledge thingy?
If it works the same way as Muhley (by doing an aerial at a certain frame) we should definitely try throwing it out as an option
Sorry if this isn't anything Zelda related but I just wanted some food for thought
If it works the same way as Muhley (by doing an aerial at a certain frame) we should definitely try throwing it out as an option
Sorry if this isn't anything Zelda related but I just wanted some food for thought
I've made various little edits to the first posts!
• Cleaned up and improved the italicized descriptions.
• Discovered sixriver had updated some tables and added the FAFs and invincibility for tripped and knocked down getup attacks. So those were added.
• Reformatted the terminology in post 1 into spoilered tables because TABLES ARE LOVE.
• Renamed "Offensive Sweep" to "Ledge Attack" in misc. attacks.
• Various tiny odds and ends edited in data tables.
• Pending improved aerials' GIFs.
BAN•ZELDA
Edit : Old aerials' GIFs. You can find new ones in their places now!
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• Cleaned up and improved the italicized descriptions.
• Discovered sixriver had updated some tables and added the FAFs and invincibility for tripped and knocked down getup attacks. So those were added.
• Reformatted the terminology in post 1 into spoilered tables because TABLES ARE LOVE.
• Renamed "Offensive Sweep" to "Ledge Attack" in misc. attacks.
• Various tiny odds and ends edited in data tables.
• Pending improved aerials' GIFs.
BAN•ZELDA
Edit : Old aerials' GIFs. You can find new ones in their places now!
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Valamway
Smash Apprentice
There are some characters where dthrow to uair is still a true combo at pretty high percents.
Are there any where it is a guaranteed kill option?
Any where it's really close, so with bad DI or failing to buffer a dodge/jump after the their could result in the uair connecting and killing?
I've definitely killed with this follow up, but I'm curious if it's guaranteed true.
Are there any where it is a guaranteed kill option?
Any where it's really close, so with bad DI or failing to buffer a dodge/jump after the their could result in the uair connecting and killing?
I've definitely killed with this follow up, but I'm curious if it's guaranteed true.
evmaxy54
Smash Champion
I just realised
We need to a chart on when a Crouch Cancelled FW is going to hit
;_;
We need to a chart on when a Crouch Cancelled FW is going to hit
;_;
Crouch cancelling? Isn't that only something effective in usage in Melee? I'm pretty sure holding straight down on FW 1 in SSB4 doesn't give you different vertical KB results.
Or did we name some newer SSB4 thing after a very well known Melee design? >_>
Edit : wait no really? You suffer only 6/7 of the KB when Crouch cancelling in Smash 4? Geez.
To be fair if most people don't easily make the reaction DI to avoid it altogether, then how commonly will people crouch cancel it?
Also my numbers are for 3DS, so they're already a few percent higher than necessary for WiiU blastzones, so a small vertical difference is balanced out some at least by the blastzone difference. My numbers should still be alright coverage.
Or did we name some newer SSB4 thing after a very well known Melee design? >_>
Edit : wait no really? You suffer only 6/7 of the KB when Crouch cancelling in Smash 4? Geez.
To be fair if most people don't easily make the reaction DI to avoid it altogether, then how commonly will people crouch cancel it?
Also my numbers are for 3DS, so they're already a few percent higher than necessary for WiiU blastzones, so a small vertical difference is balanced out some at least by the blastzone difference. My numbers should still be alright coverage.
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evmaxy54
Smash Champion
Nah CC is in this game but it's p **** (we live 20% late if we CC Fox's Usmash with proper DI)
But I've hit Skarfelt with FW1 at 80% a few times & he went too low to get hit by FW2 so I was like "OH ****" so that wasn't fun
Who was Skarfelt using in these instances? Was it someone who can undershoot FW2 naturally? I'm pretty sure some characters can just do that.
I would also like to say that anyone using the chart should ALWAYS aim a little above the numbers, for a guaranteed KO.
Also rage sort of cancels out CCing on its own for rage numbers b/c rage makes FW1 shoot people really high, so this should only be a possible issue with low/no rage numbers.
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evmaxy54
Smash Champion
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Good golly, lol.
Well, Fox IS one of the characters who naturally undershoots FW2, but your percents are about the natural undershoot...
I suppose if he was at 90% or so he wouldn't undershoot it? His good DI percent IS 99% for 3DS, which means it's probably roughly 94% on WiiU.
I think this may not be a real issue for the relevant (Good DI ) percents, at least as far as entirely whiffing goes... So... that's good.
It just means going for the no DI percents would be an even slightly bigger gamble now involving both DI AND CC, and that you should aim a little higher for super CC coverage guarantee. It is only 6/7 of the distance, which isn't a lot...Basically I will flip some **** If I seriously would be redoing something like half of every already done characters' data.
If I did that I'd porabably drop one of the rage brackets and have a CC/noCC split.
EDIT : GREAT NOW I'M TABLE BRAINSTORMING I H8 U cri
UGH but if there are too many brackets it'll just be confusing and then sort of useless tbh.
Maybe I'll just start aggressively churning out the No/No percents and work on the annoying to test percents slowly.
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S.F.L.R_9
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,355
- Location
- Las Vegas it's hot yall help
- NNID
- suffler9
- 3DS FC
- 0061-1006-1500
Hey gorls, so in the patch thread people have been talking about Phantom's new hitbox semispiking. I think this is something we should put some research into and see if it's easy to replicate and use in an actual match, because if so, it basically gives us Phantom Strike with kill power and distance.
So I haven't done any edits to the post trio in like, a few days. I hope no one has minded. No one probably really noticed. :^)
I had decided to add "clank" to the BnB tables. It kind of felt like something people would want to know without having to delve into complex tables. With that in mind I may go and edit the facts paragraphs a little since they try to emphasize whether it could or couldn't clank, which is now redundant.
Real talk, now I have a WiiU. If I wanted I could have 3DS and WiiU number variations for the KO potential section now, so we could really see the damage differences between them for Zelda. Would the WiiU gorls (Which are probably more prevalent anyways.) enjoy having actual WiiU specific numbers, instead of just "It can be slightly lower"?
I had decided to add "clank" to the BnB tables. It kind of felt like something people would want to know without having to delve into complex tables. With that in mind I may go and edit the facts paragraphs a little since they try to emphasize whether it could or couldn't clank, which is now redundant.
Real talk, now I have a WiiU. If I wanted I could have 3DS and WiiU number variations for the KO potential section now, so we could really see the damage differences between them for Zelda. Would the WiiU gorls (Which are probably more prevalent anyways.) enjoy having actual WiiU specific numbers, instead of just "It can be slightly lower"?
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Hmm...well, I don't think it's completely necessary. I could do without. Besides, it's kinda nice to know that the KO %s are even better on the Wii U.
I guess what I'm saying is that you shouldn't feel the need to rush or anything.
I guess what I'm saying is that you shouldn't feel the need to rush or anything.
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ZombieBran
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 1,645
I say go for it if it's not too much trouble.Would the WiiU gorls (Which are probably more prevalent anyways.) enjoy having actual WiiU specific numbers, instead of just "It can be slightly lower"?
Some moves do kill shockingly earlier and I'd rather people glancing at Zelda's data learn just how early we can kill in the
Zylach
Smash Ace
The Wii U version is the more relevant version, there's no hiding that. Numbers that apply to the Wii U will, then, be more relevant than numbers from the 3ds.
Well the good news them is that I've compiled almost all of those numbers now. I'll be adding them right now.
I'll be adding them right now.
Well I was just thinking I'd do them myself. Thanks for being willing to help though. <3Oh, I was gonna ask if you wanted any help figuring out KO %s.
Oh well, thanks for doing all of it anyway.
The only numbers remaining now are a few customs' numbers. I'll get them done later
Oh yeah, and RED means 3DS KO %, AQUA means WiiU %.
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I simply hadn't added fact paragraphs there yet.
You can find kind of what they would look like under the first few normals, which have them.
Because of the hitlag changes fair/bair should be safer on shield now.
Macchiato
Smash Hero
hmmm maybe they'd be safe now. What other moves benefit?
Any move with >1.0 hitlag modifiers.
Zylach
Smash Ace
Emphasis on the "ER" in safer. But that's still good news!
Macchiato
Smash Hero
oh so
-Sweetspot Dash Attack
-Sweetspot Forward Air
-Sweetspot Back Air
-Fully Charged Phantom Strine
-Grounded Farore's Wind Reappearance
-Aerial Farore's Wind Reappearance
Lightning kicks are about 5 frames safer.
Suicidal_Donuts
Smash Ace
Update on Dair > Uair research:
I'm a third of the way through. I have when it starts to (true) combo with everyone except the Miis. Some interesting bits of info:
Combo can be achieved earliest on at 44%.
Combo can be achieved latest on at 79%.
It's interesting to see how the characters are ranked, since it's based mostly on fall speed and not weight. When the combo has kill potential, then things will start to get more fun. For example:
Can begin to be Dair > Uair'd at 59%, yet die at 89%, later than , who can be comboed at 59% as well, and die earlier at 76%. They are still true combos at these percents.
I think we're looking at a reliable kill setup here. Now if only Uair was easier to land. C'mon Sak, let's port over that finger hitbox from You Know Where.
I'm a third of the way through. I have when it starts to (true) combo with everyone except the Miis. Some interesting bits of info:
Combo can be achieved earliest on
at 44%.Combo can be achieved latest on
at 79%. It's interesting to see how the characters are ranked, since it's based mostly on fall speed and not weight. When the combo has kill potential, then things will start to get more fun. For example:
Can begin to be Dair > Uair'd at 59%, yet die at 89%, later than , who can be comboed at 59% as well, and die earlier at 76%. They are still true combos at these percents.I think we're looking at a reliable kill setup here. Now if only Uair was easier to land. C'mon Sak, let's port over that finger hitbox from You Know Where.
evmaxy54
Smash Champion
C'mon Sak, let's port over that finger hitbox from You Know Where.
I wouldn't go so far with saying that this combo is reliable since it requires a missed tech to do. Still handy to know
Making a post to mess around and test possible table reformats.
STANDARD ATTACK - JAB
Zelda creates a few magical sparks of light from her hand in front of her a small distance.
BnB Data Table
Name|Hit Frames|FAF|Block Advantage (Drop/OoS)
Short Flash|11, 13, 15|24|+1/-6
Complex Data Table
hit-box|hit-frame|duration|ID|GID|bone|damage|angle|BKB|WKB|KBG|size|z/y/x|element|hit-lag|SDI|clank?|shield damage|notes
Loop hitbox 1|11, 13|1F|0|0|0 [1.1.0] |2.5 [1.1.0] |361|0|40|100|3.2 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=5.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|SetLoop=2
Loop hitbox 2|11, 13|1F|1|0|0 [1.1.0] |2.5 [1.1.0] |140 [1.1.0] |0|40 [1.1.0] |100|3.2 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=9.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|SetLoop=2
Loop hitbox 3|11, 13|1F|2|0|0|2.5 [1.1.0] |140 [1.1.0] |0|30 [1.1.0] |100|4.0|z=0, y=12.5, x=13|magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|SetLoop=2
Final hitbox 1|15|1F|0|0|0|3.0 [1.1.0] |361|35 [1.1.0] |0|130 [1.1.0] |6.0|z=0, y=12.5, x=13|magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|
Final hitbox 2|15|1F|1|0|0 [1.1.0] |3.0 [1.1.0] |361|35 [1.1.0] |0|130 [1.1.0] |3.6 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=5.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|
Final hitbox 3|15|1F|2|0|0 [1.1.0] |3.0 [1.1.0] |361|35 [1.1.0] |0|130 [1.1.0] |3.6 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=9.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|
BnB Data Table
Name|Hit Frames|FAF|Landing Lag|Auto-Cancel Window|Block Advantage (Drop/OoS)
Lightning Kick|9, (Sweet-spot) 9-13 (Sour-spot) |53|23F|1-3, 50>|-24/-31 (FAF, Sweet-spot) / -33/-40 (FAF, Sour-spot) / -3/-10 (Landing Lag, Sweet-spot) / -12/-19 (Landing Lag, Sour-spot)
Short Flash|Hit 1-2|Hit 3
Hit Frames|11, 13|15
FAF|24|--
Endlag|8|--
Base Damage|2.5% (per hit)|3%
Angle|361/140/140|all 361
Clank|NO|NO
KO Potential|N/A|N/A
Block Advantage (Drop)|-3, -1|+1
Block Advantage (OoS)|-10, -8|-6
Lightning Kick|Sour-spot|Sweet-spot
Hit Frames|9-13|9
FAF|53|--
Endlag|39|43
Auto-Cancel Window|1-3, 50>|--
Landing Lag|23F|--
Base Damage|4%|20%
Angle|all 361|361
Clank|YES|NO
KO Potential|N/A|96%
Block Advantage (Drop)|-33 (FAF) / -12 (Landing Lag)|-24 (FAF) / -3 (Landing Lag)
Block Advantage (OoS)|-40 (FAF) / -19 (Landing Lag)|-31 (FAF) / -10 (Landing Lag)
Reverse Lightning Kick|Sour-spot|Sweet-spot
Hit Frames|6-9|6
FAF|53|--
Endlag|43|46
Auto-Cancel Window|1-2, 52>|--
Landing Lag|25F|--
Base Damage|4%|20%
Angle|all 361|361
Clank|YES|NO
KO Potential|N/A|92%
Block Advantage (Drop)|-36 (FAF) / -14 (Landing Lag)|-27 (FAF) / -5 (Landing Lag)
Block Advantage (OoS)|-43 (FAF) / -21 (Landing Lag)|-34 (FAF) / -12 (Landing Lag)
Farore's Wind|Disappear (Ground)|Disappear (Air)|Reappear (Ground)|Reappear (Air)
Hit Frames|7-8|7-8|41-42|41-42
FAF|81 (full move)|--|42 (reappear only)|--
Endlag|13*|13*|38|??
Intangibility Frames|22-39|--|--|--
Landing Lag|30F|--|--|--
Base Damage|7%|7%|10% (sweet-spot) / 7% (sour-spot)|12% (sweet-spot) / 8% (sour-spot)
Angle|91|80|all 361|all 55
Clank|YES*|YES*|YES*|YES*
KO Potential|??|??|??|??
Block Advantage (Drop)|??|??|??|??
Block Advantage (OoS)|??|??|??|??
STANDARD ATTACK - JAB
Zelda creates a few magical sparks of light from her hand in front of her a small distance.
BnB Data Table
Short Flash|11, 13, 15|24|+1/-6
Damage
|
Angle
|
Clank
|
KO Potential
2.5 + 2.5 + 3 = 8%
[1.1.0]
|361/140/140,
(hits 1-2)
361
(hit 3)
[1.1.0]
|NO|N/ALoop hitbox 1|11, 13|1F|0|0|0 [1.1.0] |2.5 [1.1.0] |361|0|40|100|3.2 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=5.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|SetLoop=2
Loop hitbox 2|11, 13|1F|1|0|0 [1.1.0] |2.5 [1.1.0] |140 [1.1.0] |0|40 [1.1.0] |100|3.2 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=9.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|SetLoop=2
Loop hitbox 3|11, 13|1F|2|0|0|2.5 [1.1.0] |140 [1.1.0] |0|30 [1.1.0] |100|4.0|z=0, y=12.5, x=13|magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|SetLoop=2
Final hitbox 1|15|1F|0|0|0|3.0 [1.1.0] |361|35 [1.1.0] |0|130 [1.1.0] |6.0|z=0, y=12.5, x=13|magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|
Final hitbox 2|15|1F|1|0|0 [1.1.0] |3.0 [1.1.0] |361|35 [1.1.0] |0|130 [1.1.0] |3.6 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=5.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|
Final hitbox 3|15|1F|2|0|0 [1.1.0] |3.0 [1.1.0] |361|35 [1.1.0] |0|130 [1.1.0] |3.6 [1.1.0] |z=0, y=12.5, x=9.5 [1.1.0] |magic|×1.0|×1.0|no|0|
BnB Data Table
Lightning Kick|9, (Sweet-spot) 9-13 (Sour-spot) |53|23F|1-3, 50>|-24/-31 (FAF, Sweet-spot) / -33/-40 (FAF, Sour-spot) / -3/-10 (Landing Lag, Sweet-spot) / -12/-19 (Landing Lag, Sour-spot)
Damage
|
Angle
|
Clank
|
KO Potential
4%
(Sour-spot)
/ 20%
(Sweet-spot)
|361|YES
(Sour-spot)
/ NO
(Sweet-spot)
|96%
(Sweet-spot)Hit Frames|11, 13|15
FAF|24|--
Endlag|8|--
Base Damage|2.5% (per hit)|3%
Angle|361/140/140|all 361
Clank|NO|NO
KO Potential|N/A|N/A
Block Advantage (Drop)|-3, -1|+1
Block Advantage (OoS)|-10, -8|-6
Hit Frames|9-13|9
FAF|53|--
Endlag|39|43
Auto-Cancel Window|1-3, 50>|--
Landing Lag|23F|--
Base Damage|4%|20%
Angle|all 361|361
Clank|YES|NO
KO Potential|N/A|96%
Block Advantage (Drop)|-33 (FAF) / -12 (Landing Lag)|-24 (FAF) / -3 (Landing Lag)
Block Advantage (OoS)|-40 (FAF) / -19 (Landing Lag)|-31 (FAF) / -10 (Landing Lag)
Hit Frames|6-9|6
FAF|53|--
Endlag|43|46
Auto-Cancel Window|1-2, 52>|--
Landing Lag|25F|--
Base Damage|4%|20%
Angle|all 361|361
Clank|YES|NO
KO Potential|N/A|92%
Block Advantage (Drop)|-36 (FAF) / -14 (Landing Lag)|-27 (FAF) / -5 (Landing Lag)
Block Advantage (OoS)|-43 (FAF) / -21 (Landing Lag)|-34 (FAF) / -12 (Landing Lag)
Hit Frames|7-8|7-8|41-42|41-42
FAF|81 (full move)|--|42 (reappear only)|--
Endlag|13*|13*|38|??
Intangibility Frames|22-39|--|--|--
Landing Lag|30F|--|--|--
Base Damage|7%|7%|10% (sweet-spot) / 7% (sour-spot)|12% (sweet-spot) / 8% (sour-spot)
Angle|91|80|all 361|all 55
Clank|YES*|YES*|YES*|YES*
KO Potential|??|??|??|??
Block Advantage (Drop)|??|??|??|??
Block Advantage (OoS)|??|??|??|??
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Does the vertical format for BnB tables look any better? When you make the horizontal format have two 'levels' of data, it starts to look a little clunkly to me. :/ Also if I use the vertical one, I don't necessarily have to add like 103052 parenthesized specifiers in each box. (Like, sweet-spot/sour-spot in every box for LKs)
Also important, what should be clearer in either table format? I mean, I include the terminology at the top of the 1st post, but what could still be more clear in each individual table?
Also important, what should be clearer in either table format? I mean, I include the terminology at the top of the 1st post, but what could still be more clear in each individual table?
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Zylach
Smash Ace
I vote vertical as well
I dunno I prefer horizontal presentation
have you already calculated all the changes to shield stun?
PGH_Chrispy
Smash Journeyman
Heyo, just made a thread on who can be hit by SH bair/fair, may be useful here
http://smashboards.com/threads/short-hop-fair-bair-character-research.420234/
http://smashboards.com/threads/short-hop-fair-bair-character-research.420234/
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Posting some WIP.
Short Flash|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
hit 1, 2|-3, -1|-3, -1|-10, -8|-10, -8
hit 3|+1|+1|-6|-6
Magical Push|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
sweet-spot|-19|-18|-26|-25
clean|-20|-19|-27|-26
late|-20|-18|-27|-25
Mystic Swipe|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
sweet-spot|-13|-12|-20|-19
sour-spot|-14|-13|-21|-20
Trip|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
hit|-8|-2|-15|-9
Protective Sweep|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
hit|-10|+1|-17|-6
Shining Palm|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
hit 1, 2, 3, 4|-25, -23, -21, -19|-25, -23, -21, -19|-32, -30, -28, -26|-32, -30, -28, -26
hit 5|-10|-10|-17|-17
Compass Spin|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
front hit|-21|-20|-28|-27
back hit|-14|-13|-21|-20
Power Sweep|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
hit 1, 2, 3, 4|-45, -42, -39, -36|-45, -42, -39, -36|-52, -49, -46, -43|-52, -49, -46, -43
hit 5, 6, 7|-30, -27, -24|-30, -27, -24|-37, -34, -31|-37, -34, -31
hit 8|-19|-19|-26|-26
Magical Spin|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
hit 5; FAF|-19|-18|-25|-25
hit 5; LL|-9|-24/-23|-16|-31/-30
hit 5; SHAC|-6|-5|-13|-12
Lightning Kick|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
sweet-spot; FAF|-24|-24|-31|-31
sweet-spot; LL|-3|-43|-10|-50
sour-spot; FAF|-33|-29|-40|-36
sour-spot; LL|-12|-52/-48|-19|-59/-55
Reverse Lightning Kick|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
sweet-spot; FAF|-27|-27|-34|-34
sweet-spot; LL|-5|-50|-12|-57
sour-spot; FAF|-36|-33|-43|-40
sour-spot; LL|-14|-59/-56|-21|-66/-63
Condensed Blast|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
hitbox; FAF|-24|-22|-31|-29
hitbox; LL|-2|-42/-40|-9|-49/-47
Meteor Heel|first frame [drop]|last frame [drop]|first frame [OoS]|last frame [OoS]
sweet-spot; FAF|-12|-12|-19|-19
sweet-spot; LL|0|-25|-7|-32
sweet-spot; SHAC|-8|-8|-15|-15
sour-spot; FAF|-19|-9|-26|-16
sour-spot; LL|-7|-32/-22|-14|-39/-29
sour-spot; SHAC|-15|-5|-22|-12
hit 1, 2|-3, -1|-3, -1|-10, -8|-10, -8
hit 3|+1|+1|-6|-6
sweet-spot|-19|-18|-26|-25
clean|-20|-19|-27|-26
late|-20|-18|-27|-25
sweet-spot|-13|-12|-20|-19
sour-spot|-14|-13|-21|-20
hit|-8|-2|-15|-9
hit|-10|+1|-17|-6
hit 1, 2, 3, 4|-25, -23, -21, -19|-25, -23, -21, -19|-32, -30, -28, -26|-32, -30, -28, -26
hit 5|-10|-10|-17|-17
front hit|-21|-20|-28|-27
back hit|-14|-13|-21|-20
hit 1, 2, 3, 4|-45, -42, -39, -36|-45, -42, -39, -36|-52, -49, -46, -43|-52, -49, -46, -43
hit 5, 6, 7|-30, -27, -24|-30, -27, -24|-37, -34, -31|-37, -34, -31
hit 8|-19|-19|-26|-26
hit 5; FAF|-19|-18|-25|-25
hit 5; LL|-9|-24/-23|-16|-31/-30
hit 5; SHAC|-6|-5|-13|-12
sweet-spot; FAF|-24|-24|-31|-31
sweet-spot; LL|-3|-43|-10|-50
sour-spot; FAF|-33|-29|-40|-36
sour-spot; LL|-12|-52/-48|-19|-59/-55
sweet-spot; FAF|-27|-27|-34|-34
sweet-spot; LL|-5|-50|-12|-57
sour-spot; FAF|-36|-33|-43|-40
sour-spot; LL|-14|-59/-56|-21|-66/-63
hitbox; FAF|-24|-22|-31|-29
hitbox; LL|-2|-42/-40|-9|-49/-47
sweet-spot; FAF|-12|-12|-19|-19
sweet-spot; LL|0|-25|-7|-32
sweet-spot; SHAC|-8|-8|-15|-15
sour-spot; FAF|-19|-9|-26|-16
sour-spot; LL|-7|-32/-22|-14|-39/-29
sour-spot; SHAC|-15|-5|-22|-12
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PGH_Chrispy
Smash Journeyman
Wow, those are some depressing numbers for Zelda's advantage on hit. At least I'm mostly convinced now that ff Fair on shield is a bad idea. Could you describe what the first/last hit frames mean?
evmaxy54
Smash Champion
First hit-frames are the advantage when the hitbox first comes out. Last hit-frames are the advantage when it hits the shield at the very latest it can
Yeah, her numbers look bad, but it should be cleared up that almost everyone's numbers look similar to this. Most are a bit better, of course, because we ARE talking about Zelda.
Another note for the aerials is that the "landing lag" numbers are measuring: 1. "Perfect" landing timing, where you land the frame after the hit on shield, and 2. The ABSOLUTE latest timing where you will still experience landing lag after hitting their shield.
For example, a FH LK on BF. (lol acronyms) Should you land on one of the low platforms, Zelda will suffer her landing lag. Not directly after the hitbox, however, much later than that while still in the laggy landing window.
Then imagine you managed to hit a shielding ground-level opponent while rising. Your advantage (Or...disadvantage really) will be significantly worse, you'd be ADDING the landing lag to the endlag, which makes the lag lolbad. Regardless I recorded those too.
ALSO also, with the multihits you should be focusing only on the final hit numbers. In 99% of cases you'll likely be hitting their shield until the last hit. Thankfully the final hit numbers are less bad.
Another note for the aerials is that the "landing lag" numbers are measuring: 1. "Perfect" landing timing, where you land the frame after the hit on shield, and 2. The ABSOLUTE latest timing where you will still experience landing lag after hitting their shield.
For example, a FH LK on BF. (lol acronyms) Should you land on one of the low platforms, Zelda will suffer her landing lag. Not directly after the hitbox, however, much later than that while still in the laggy landing window.
Then imagine you managed to hit a shielding ground-level opponent while rising. Your advantage (Or...disadvantage really) will be significantly worse, you'd be ADDING the landing lag to the endlag, which makes the lag lolbad. Regardless I recorded those too.
ALSO also, with the multihits you should be focusing only on the final hit numbers. In 99% of cases you'll likely be hitting their shield until the last hit. Thankfully the final hit numbers are less bad.
PGH_Chrispy
Smash Journeyman
One exception to the multihits I don't see data for is nair - looking for it mostly to see what all can be true followup'd from a nair cancelled by lanfing before the last hit. Do you think you can grab that data?