Data The Great Fairy Fountain II : Zelda Data & Research Repository

[BJN39]

The Uthrow combos are true combos. I got someone just there now to spam jump while stuck in the Uthrow animation & the hit stun (trying to buffer a jump) & it still registered as a combo in training mode.

Whoa wait really? That's...Kind of awesome. No jumping out!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

lol? You people only just figured out uthrow is a combo throw at very low percents?

http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-social-we-raided-crayola-com.344739/page-27#post-18040591



This was before DI was changed for vertical hits though, dthrow was utter garbage before that.

 

[BJN39]

lol? You people only just figured out uthrow is a combo throw at very low percents?

http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-social-we-raided-crayola-com.344739/page-27#post-18040591



This was before DI was changed for vertical hits though, dthrow was utter garbage before that.

Well, I'd known you'd said it, but I suck and couldn't make it work so I let it sit on the back burner until evmaxy brought it back up.

If it makes you feel better I'll like your posT.

"Daily reminder that uthrow is broken."

Edit : PLOT TWIST I has already likeT it back then!

 

[evmaxy54]

lol? You people only just figured out uthrow is a combo throw at very low percents?

http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-social-we-raided-crayola-com.344739/page-27#post-18040591



This was before DI was changed for vertical hits though, dthrow was utter garbage before that.

Outside of Fox...

Yea...

 

[berserker00]

lol? You people only just figured out uthrow is a combo throw at very low percents?

http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-social-we-raided-crayola-com.344739/page-27#post-18040591



This was before DI was changed for vertical hits though, dthrow was utter garbage before that.

Interesting. Have you guys found the u-throw to u-smash and u-throw to u-tilt spam chains? It's pretty nifty

 

[Rickster]

I can't get Uthrow to true combo into anything (except utilt on Fox only).

What am I doing wrong help

 

[evmaxy54]

I can't get Uthrow to true combo into anything (except utilt on Fox only).

What am I doing wrong help

Usmash & Utilt after Uthrow only works on 3/4 other characters respectfully.

But you're gonna have to buffer the move after the throw though & that requires a bit of practice

 

[Macchiato]

I think Uthrow combos into Uair at like 60-70% hmmm could be another kill option. Dthrow to Uair already works but you gotta be really good at reading DI while DI doesn't affect Uthrow as much.

 

[evmaxy54]

I think Uthrow combos into Uair at like 60-70% hmmm could be another kill option. Dthrow to Uair already works but you gotta be really good at reading DI while DI doesn't affect Uthrow as much.

Dthrow -> Uair only really works if the opponent doesn't know how to DI/Vector it correctly.

Also I've recorded some of the %s where Uthrow -> Uair is a true combo here. None of them kill on FD/Omegas so far, Falcon will die at any stage with a lower ceiling than FD when done at 86% (although it doesn't combo, when done at 87% Falcon did die from this on FD)
This could however kill some of the characters when on a platform though.

Edit: the Uthrow -> Usmash/Utilt combos only works on the 4/5 characters (respectfully) that I've already posted on sadly :/

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Uthrow > Uair true combo on T&C?

Someone investigate that pronto!

With rage also!!

 

[evmaxy54]

Uthrow > Uair true combo on T&C?

Someone investigate that pronto!

With rage also!!

Gonna need to get the rest of the %s where the combo works at 0% Rage before anything (so far I've got 9 characters done so yea) :/

Important edit: My top % range on the characters could potentially be incorrect (certainly for LM they are) as I didn't take into account double-jumping. Will include % range at a later date. Basically means this combo could have a higher ceiling than I once thought (even if it is just a slight increase but it should still be included).

Important edit 2: this is really hard to do btw so the practicability is highly questionable sadly. However, some characters DJ into Uair is quite do-able, like Mewtwo. Don't bother trying to DJ on Ganon tho

 

[evmaxy54]

Up smash has a use in this game?

I was surprised by this myself. Though low % combos are it's only use because lol Usmash

 

[Valamway]

Tomahawk Usmash is a great landing trap or approach mixup, but it only works once or twice against any opponent...

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

tbh, call me insane (well I already am for maining Zelda lol) but I actually have been getting a lot of kills with usmash. It's a good landing trap from dthrow at percents where it's too high to land uair, which is coincidentally when uasmash starts killing. It also doesn't kill that late if you have some rage. With about 70% rage it starts killing at likeee 115%, which isn't too unreasonable if you can punish an airdodge or anti-air with it.

 

[Rickster]

It's best uses are probably damage racking and trapping. Oh, and you can try and Farore's snipe someone after it if they suck or like to airdodge out of everything.

EDIT: I feel like we talk about this move the most when it isn't even that great, haha. Maybe we're just desperate to make it work.

 

[BJN39]

It's best uses are probably damage racking and trapping. Oh, and you can try and Farore's snipe someone after it if they suck or like to airdodge out of everything.

EDIT: I feel like we talk about this move the most when it isn't even that great, haha. Maybe we're just desperate to make it work.

I WILL make Usmash work. lol I just love the move for some reason. I find that I like multi-hit moves a lot.

Also, when comparing it to Usmashes of similar design (Pit's, Diddy's, Villager's, Bowser Jr's, etc.) I found that it DOES have the highest damage output of all of those; 15% VS mostly 13% and 11%. That's neat, at least.

 

[Rickster]

Multihits are just...fun! Idk it feels like you're hurting your opponent more or something to me.

And I didn't know we had the most damaging multihit usmash. I just knew it did a lot, lol. I like doing simple utilts>usmash for an easy 20-30%.

 

[BJN39]

I just need to drop something here, and test something else, don't mind me~

We end up doing research not to advance Zelda's metagame, but to expose every exploit in her rather flawed designs.

Spoiler

3DS |No DI 0% Rage |No DI 50% Rage |No DI 100% Rage |No DI 150% Rage |Good DI 0% Rage |Good DI 50% Rage |Good DI 100% Rage |Good DI 150% Rage
|73%|67%|52%|37%|109%|102%|84%|68%

I guess this can also be taken for a little teaser for a project that I've started work on.

CHART​

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

So I've been doing some testing on who Zelda's ledge trump sweetspot bair works on bc I figured it'd be helpful to know. Just an fyi, you have to be absurdly fast with the trump to hit with the sweetspot but once you practice and get used to it it's pretty easy to do

Spoiler

| Does sweetspot bair connect off of a ledge trump?
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes (if you want to practice this, WFT is the easiest to do it on)
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes
| Yes

edit: spoilered bc huge table is huge

 

[BJN39]

So I've been doing some testing on who Zelda's ledge trump sweetspot bair works on bc I figured it'd be helpful to know. Just an fyi, you have to be absurdly fast with the trump to hit with the sweetspot but once you practice and get used to it it's pretty easy to do


edit: spoilered bc huge table is huge

TY! It looks like she can pull it off on just about everyone. Lmao though ofc Sheik would be one of the only "No"s. I guess I'll start work on those percents then soon. :D

Edit : I could've sworn I was able to pull it off on BJr in the past, maybe he just wasn't escaping in time then...

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

TY! It looks like she can pull it off on just about everyone. Lmao though ofc Sheik would be one of the only "No"s. I guess I'll start work on those percents then soon. :D

Edit : I could've sworn I was able to pull it off on BJr in the past, maybe he just wasn't escaping in time then...

Yeah no problem. lolol Sheik literally is the bane of Zelda's existence in every way.

I'm retesting BJr and you actually can hit him with the sweetspot but it's a bit harder to do than some other characters. Updated the table

 

[BJN39]

First, UUUUUUUUHHHGGGHH.

For some incredibly dumb reason I won't be able to test Trump>BAir outside of test dummy manipulation atm. It seems almost like if the target of the trump doesn't do ANY inputs when trumped, they just float out far enough to avoid LT>BAir completely. Either that or local multiplayer between 2 3DSs really does lag it up enough to completely throw me off smh.

@ S.F.L.R_9 have you been testing with a "control" test dummy, or a "Stop" test dummy? Does it make a difference when they're LT'ed?

So atm I've been testing by forcing a test dummy onto the edge, trumping>BAiring them. It takes only a little bit of time in most cases to get the KO percent there, but I really want to get percents where good vectoring was involved eventually. I may be able to at least 'simulate' the percent difference after I finish with the testing.

Also, I ended up testing against Sheik and TL just in case, and I was able to actually sweet-spot both of them (On 3DS, which could mean something. Sheik was just a matter of picky precision, a lot of times she'd only get hit bvy the sour-spot. TL just...worked though.) Could you re-test those two on the WiiU again to make sure?

Anyways, here's my current progress:

Spoiler

Character|Percent [3DS] |Bootleg "Difficulty Rank"
|58%|Normal
|57%|Normal
|55%|Easy (Stayed Closer)
|68%|Easy (FAT)
|60%|Normal
|50%|Easy/Normal
|62%|Hard (Barely gets his car)
|62%|Normal
|50%|Easy/Normal (Stayed Slightly Closer)
|69%|Easy (FAT, Stayed Closer)
|56%|Normal
|60%|Easy/Normal
|53%|Easy (Stayed Close Enough)
|52%|Hard (Sour-spots Very Often)
|64%|Normal
|56%|Normal
|65%|Easy (Stayed Super Close)
|51%|Normal (Weird, but works)

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

First, UUUUUUUUHHHGGGHH.

For some incredibly dumb reason I won't be able to test Trump>BAir outside of test dummy manipulation atm. It seems almost like if the target of the trump doesn't do ANY inputs when trumped, they just float out far enough to avoid LT>BAir completely. Either that or local multiplayer between 2 3DSs really does lag it up enough to completely throw me off smh.

@ S.F.L.R_9 have you been testing with a "control" test dummy, or a "Stop" test dummy? Does it make a difference when they're LT'ed?

So atm I've been testing by forcing a test dummy onto the edge, trumping>BAiring them. It takes only a little bit of time in most cases to get the KO percent there, but I really want to get percents where good vectoring was involved eventually. I may be able to at least 'simulate' the percent difference after I finish with the testing.

Also, I ended up testing against Sheik and TL just in case, and I was able to actually sweet-spot both of them (On 3DS, which could mean something. Sheik was just a matter of picky precision, a lot of times she'd only get hit bvy the sour-spot. TL just...worked though.) Could you re-test those two on the WiiU again to make sure?

Anyways, here's my current progress:

Spoiler

Character|Percent [3DS] |Bootleg "Difficulty Rank"
|58%|Normal
|57%|Normal
|55%|Easy (Stayed Closer)
|68%|Easy (FAT)
|60%|Normal
|50%|Easy/Normal
|62%|Hard (Barely gets his car)
|62%|Normal
|50%|Easy/Normal (Stayed Slightly Closer)
|69%|Easy (FAT, Stayed Closer)
|56%|Normal
|60%|Easy/Normal
|53%|Easy (Stayed Close Enough)
|52%|Hard (Sour-spots Very Often)
|64%|Normal
|56%|Normal
|65%|Easy (Stayed Super Close)
|51%|Normal (Weird, but works)

Omg that's a ton of progress. Thank you so so much for testing BJN <3 I've been using a CPU set to stop and setting it to control doesn't seem to make any difference.

About Sheik and TL, I was able to get the sweetspot on both of them. Originally I thought I was sweetspotting after they jumped bc the cpu just looooves jumping after a ledge trump lol so I thought it wasn't guaranteed. Sorry about that. Soooo now that means this works on every single character. Awesome

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I know virtually nothing about Zelda, but I noticed that her Neutral-B causes her to cancel any vertical momentum. With U-Smash being Frame 9 and jump -> Farore's Wind being Frame 8, your fastest out-of-shield option on many characters is Frame 7 jump -> footstool (-> Neutral-B).

I don't know how much of a problem grabs are for Zelda, but footstools cancel opponents' grab animations at any point, so you can catch people out of their grab startup and such. Because of Nayru's Love having invincibility, if the opponent ends already doing an attack, you can avoid it with the Neutral-B invincibility, which is somewhat nice. Also, shorthop immediate airdodge lets you get these footstools after the five frames of airdodge endlag, for all it's worth (since she doesn't seem to threaten much else in that scenario except potentially B-Air).

 

[BJN39]

Oh yeah, @ S.F.L.R_9 I finished the KO percent data on Trump>BAir yesterday and I'll be trying to post it today! I don't want to let this go entirely without trying to get correctly vectored percents eventually, though.

 

[SamuraiMilk]

Does anyone know if anything has changed from the recent patch?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

SOMEONE TEST USMASH KO PERCENTs IMMEDIATELY

 

[BJN39]

SOMEONE TEST USMASH KO PERCENTs IMMEDIATELY

They were buffed quite a bit. :D

Now starts KOing Mario at around 105% instead of 126%.

 

[Rickster]

They were buffed quite a bit. :D

Now starts KOing Mario at around 105% instead of 126%.

So...does that make it our strongest smash now? That would be wonderful.

EDIT: Well I just Fsmashed Mario on Miiverse from the center at 105% and it didn't kill so...

Spoiler

 

[BJN39]

So...does that make it our strongest smash now? That would be wonderful.

Well, if you test Fsmash on Mario at center stage then yes Usmash is stronger. Of course it's sort of dependent on where Mario is horizontally, but under normal circumstances Usmash should now be our strongest smash attack...lel.

 

[Rickster]

Well, if you test Fsmash on Mario at center stage then yes Usmash is stronger. Of course it's sort of dependent on where Mario is horizontally, but under normal circumstances Usmash should now be our strongest smash attack...lel.

Barely KOs Mario at 85% on the top of Miiverse too.

I can love this move again.

EDIT: LOL there's a Miiverse post that has Zelda and says
"Always classy never trashy"

 

[KuroganeHammer]

TEST WITH RAGE PLS

 

[BJN39]

TEST WITH RAGE PLS

SOON. I still need my second 3DS for testing, then I'll properly delete people with Rage Usmash.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

150% rage usmash on Wii U FD kills Sheik at 68%

Gorls do you think I should update my rage thread with the new usmash? I probably should right?

 

[Rickster]

TEST WITH RAGE PLS

101% Rage KO'd Mario at....91% from the center of Miiverse.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

150% rage usmash on Wii U FD kills Sheik at 68%

Gorls do you think I should update my rage thread with the new usmash? I probably should right?

.__.

 

[BJN39]

Ugh, updating 2nd 3DS nao, will make a KO% table like the ones I was making before. Definitely gonna change it to all hits instead of only final hit though to fully display the fraudulence.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Updated with usmash percents http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-rage-research-thread.392825/

 

[BJN39]

Usmash (All hits connected, good DI. Which I now realize is super tricky. It has an 88 angle, but it switches which side you need to DI towards depending on which side of her you end on.)

3DS |Good DI 0% Rage |Good DI 100% Rage |Good DI 150% Rage
|105%|90%|80%
|99%|85%|75%
|93%|80%|73%
|116%|100%|89%
|102%|88%|80%
|89%|75%|68%
|83%|74%|65%
|103%|90%|79%
|94%|80%|71%
|93%|79%|73%
|125%|110%|98%
|80%|68%|60%
|99%|87%|77%

Oh yeah, I also finished that ledge-trump BAir simple % list now @ S.F.L.R_9 ! Excluding Miis and DLC chars for now. (Don't have the DLC chars, haven't gotten to miis.)

Spoiler

Character|Percent [3DS] ||Character|Percent [3DS]
|58%|||48%
|57%|||50%
|55%|||50%
|68%|||63%
|60%|||59%
|50%|||46%
|62%|||55%
|62%|||55%
|50%|||60%
|69%|||57%
|56%|||60%
|60%|||58%
|53%|||51%
|52%|||58%
|64%|||59%
|56%|||56%
|65%|||59%
|51%|||57%
|58%|||???
|57%|||???
|57%|||???
|62%|||???
|58%|||???
|49%|||???
|64%|||???
|50%||
|54%||

 

[evmaxy54]

Falling Nair Combos

Note: All combos were counted in Training Mode. Allthese combos will require more testing. Forward momentum will make these combos easier to do.

BnB combos:
Nair -> Dtilt (8-12%)
Nair -> Dsmash (16-20%)
Nair -> Utilt (11-15%)

Nair -> Dtilt -> Dtilt (13-17%. Works on ZSS at ~27%)
Nair -> Dtilt -> Dsmash (20-24%. See above)
Nair -> Dtilt -> Utilt (15-19%. Works on ZSS at ~35%)
Nair -> Dtilt - Fair (28-32%. Works on ZSS at ~72%. Character dependent)
Nair -> Utilt -> Usmash (26-30%. Works on Fox at ~20%)
Nair -> Utilt -> Uair (26-30%. Works on ZSS at ~55%)
Nair -> Elevator (22-26%. Works on ZSS at ~60%)

What might work:
Nair -> Dtilt -> Elevator (26-30%)
Nair -> Dtilt -> Usmash (24-28%)

Nair1 is when you hit the opponent with only one hit, which pops the the opponent upwards.

Nair1 -> Utilt -> Uair (24%. Works on ZSS at ~55%
Nair1 -> Utilt -> Usmash (24%. Works on Fox at ~24%)
Nair1 -> Elevator (20%)
Nair1 -> Usmash (15%)

These combos require a missed tech & are character dependent (mainly because FH Dair can only hit about 20 characters when standing). Combos listed here work on ZSS at about 50-65%

FH Dair -> FF Nair -> Dsmash (~32%)
FH Dair -> FF Nair -> Utilt (~26%)
FH Dair -> FF Nair -> Dtilt -> Nair (~35%)
FH Dair -> FF Nair -> Usmash (~37%)
FH Dair -> FF Nair -> Elevator (~38%)
FH Dair -> FF Nair -> Dtilt -> Fair (Max Damage 48%. Works on ZSS at 55%)

------------------

Other notes:

- Because Jiggly & Mewtwo are so light, they bounce off the ground twice when hit with a falling Nair. HOWEVER THEY CANNOT TECH THE FIRST BOUNCE. Only combos that involve Dsmash or Dtilt after the Nair are considered combos.

- Combos regarding FH Dair only work on characters that can get by it by standing, which is every character taller than & including Bowser Jr. (Luigi doesn't get hit by it mind). Height chart here

- Because the move does fixed knockback, it can be also be assumed that it does fixed hitstun. Heavier characters like Bowser can break out of all of these combos because they will have less hitstun due to their weight. Dtilt & Dsmash are the most reliable.

WIP