Social The Ganonic Grimoire - Kongregation of Kings

[Naroghin]

Oh I meant that I was honored you had considered me the representative if the Link boards. I did make it a little confusing with my use of the tags, huh?

 

[Opana]

I can play Acid again, that's cool.

I am getting lots better playing these high level players, I wanna vs. @Z1GMA and @ Vermanubis again, I think I'd be more challenging now.

 

[Vermanubis]

I can play Acid again, that's cool.

I am getting lots better playing these high level players, I wanna vs. @Z1GMA and @ Vermanubis again, I think I'd be more challenging now.

I can play anytime today.

@ A2ZOMG : Well done, dude! Now take this confidence and conquer yet more empires!

 

[Breadloaf]

Hey what do you guys think of ganons custom moves?

 

[HeavyLobster]

I just took 3rd in a small 16-player online tourney basically going Ganon only, outside of one last-gasp match with Little Mac. I got bodied by a couple of good Falcons, but I feel I did well, considering it's my first Smash tourney outside of a couple of small Brawl tourneys back in 08-09(and the Ganon-only tourney). I beat a Falco/Doc, a Pit, and a Robin player.
Edit: actually it was 14 players

 

[Opana]

I can play anytime today.

@ A2ZOMG : Well done, dude! Now take this confidence and conquer yet more empires!

Free in like 30min?

Just when I feel confident this d3 destroys me lol, I need to fight more d3 I guess.

 

[Vermanubis]

Yeah, that's cool. I'll just have a room open.

@ Opana : You 'bout ready?

 

[JmacAttack]

Hey what do you guys think of ganons custom moves?

They're good.

 

[Opana]

Damn, had help with something.

I guess tomorrow or another day.

 

[Shogger]

Hey what do you guys think of ganons custom moves?

I love the blue flame Wizard's Foot custom. Vastly improves recovery distance, gives him early Dthrow followups, and jumps over projectiles. His other customs are great, but this one stands out.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm still around if you're still down, Opa.

 

[Opana]

Awesome yes

 

[Vermanubis]

K, I'll host in a sec.

 

[Opana]

You are wrecking me >_>

 

[Vermanubis]

GGs, Opa. I gotta head to bed though, since I have class early.

And I don't think I wrecked you. I mean, I had to seriously think about what I was doing and respect your mindgames/spacing. Your strings especially.

 

[Opana]

Yeah real ggs, I posted fhat after the comm error but I did better after although you had huge win streaks.

I feel strings are essential to how I play, I know you said I need to change things up but I want to stay aggressive with mindgames thrown in to help, for now I want to mixup my offense lol.

I am stealing your aerudo game, that is too good and I see why you praise it. You were slamming me all over the stage, it was crazy.

I'm trying to work on some new tricks/maneuvers, like that air wizkick from a ledge hop offstage and ground choke to cide.

I still got a ways to go but it was tons of fun. I just hope you got better rather than I got worse lol.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I can play Acid again, that's cool.

I am getting lots better playing these high level players, I wanna vs. @Z1GMA and @ Vermanubis again, I think I'd be more challenging now.

You said you wanted to play me. I'm available from Friday afternoon and this weekend.

We'll play on the Wii U.

 

[Grey Belnades]

I'm late but were there any fellow Ganons are Apex?

 

[Opana]

You said you wanted to play me. I'm available from Friday afternoon and this weekend.

We'll play on the Wii U.

Yeah I figured you knew, I may be able to swing it but unsure.

 

[_Magus_]

I'm stupidly happy right now.

One of my guides was featured on the front page of the Guides section. Sadly it wasn't one of my Ganondorf ones (personally I think they're better) but it still is an awesome feeling :D

 

[A2ZOMG]

Uuugh, been getting some actually good quality For Glory matches lately. Sonic is hard. Winnable, but really hard and not fun when they play conservatively and try to edgeguard you deep. The spacing and mindgames required to put him in an exploitable rhythm are just ridiculous at times, and my DI and recovery has to be absolutely perfect for me to not get gimped. I'll be much happier playing this matchup with WDK and Dark Fists so I at least don't have to stress out as much about recovery. Yeah I'm aware Hammer Spin Dash is a thing, but the main problem in this matchup imo is mostly Ganon's recovery. He'll make you miserable in neutral, but Flame Choke reads make him killable.

Aside from that...making some friends on For Glory is nice. I feel like most people who are trying to get better have a lot of fun playing against a competent Ganon.

 

[jahkzheng]

Uuugh, been getting some actually good quality For Glory matches lately. Sonic is hard. Winnable, but really hard and not fun when they play conservatively and try to edgeguard you deep. The spacing and mindgames required to put him in an exploitable rhythm are just ridiculous at times, and my DI and recovery has to be absolutely perfect for me to not get gimped. I'll be much happier playing this matchup with WDK and Dark Fists so I at least don't have to stress out as much about recovery. Yeah I'm aware Hammer Spin Dash is a thing, but the main problem in this matchup imo is mostly Ganon's recovery. He'll make you miserable in neutral, but Flame Choke reads make him killable.

Aside from that...making some friends on For Glory is nice. I feel like most people who are trying to get better have a lot of fun playing against a competent Ganon.

Sounds both fun and frustrating at once. I've not run into a really good Sonic yet, but even average ones are plenty annoying enough to deal with. Also don't feel like I've run into a really good Zamus or Sheik for that matter. And I know the couple Rosalina's I've faced must've been mediocre.

Toughest characters I've run into were a Dedede, a Pac-Man, and more recently a Little Mac that showed me just how below average every Mac I'd faced before actually was. I think my difficulty lied in them being better players using exploits I simply didn't know how to handle.

- The Dedede was extremely effective at edgeguarding me with Gordos. My options from the ledge were almost always covered. I think some more time and I'd have figured out my best option. I really had a hard time effectively getting back on stage and knocking the Gordo away without getting punished, but with proper timing and the proper attack it would've likely been my best option.
- The Pac-Man utilized the Omega stages for camping with his very random projectiles that I never quite figured out. I also never figured out his dash attack hitbox, or most of his hitboxes for that matter. He basically went for the timeout every match which was frustrating.
- The Little Mac just mixed up rolls and pivot attacks a lot and always punished missed reads and utilized his super armor. Basically, he had amazing reactions for wifi. I had a hard time just touching him and stuff I thought were fairly safe strings he'd manage to get out of with counter. Dash attack/Dthrow to uair was often countered for instance.

Of course, wifi didn't help and neither did my inexperience with fighting these characters. All the credit to the people using these characters though.

I need to face more tough opponents and try to learn from it. Sometimes it feels pretty hopeless, heh. My god, that Pikachu that Pon fought in that one match we have linked on this board.... that would be such a nightmare. It's scary there's even people out there that could be so good with such a character. It's even more amazing that Pon beat that Pika. It literally felt impossible. Even one of the best Ganons looked totally outmatched, but he had something special. I don't know. Felt like he capitalized on every moment he could and would've lost had he not. Still don't quite understand how he did it. I can only hope to do half as well when faced with that kind of adversity, lol.

 

[Opana]

Sonic imo is our worst MU along with whoever else, I know most don't agree though.

D3 I feel is another rough one but not our most difficult.

I think Pac has a slight advantage.

I think we have a slight advantage vs. Mac factoring in everything, of course him dominating fd/omegas though.

 

[jahkzheng]

Sonic imo is our worst MU along with whoever else, I know most don't agree though.

D3 I feel is another rough one but not our most difficult.

I think Pac has a slight advantage.

I think we have a slight advantage vs. Mac factoring in everything, of course him dominating fd/omegas though.

I can imagine why Sonic would be so terrible. He definitely has the potential to be one of our worst matchups.

The three characters I mentioned were problematic probably more because I didn't know how to handle them or because I was simply out played by these other people. Not necessarily because Ganon is at a disadvantage. The Pac-Man especially felt like he was using the flatness of Omegas, the randomness of his projectiles, and the difficulty in powershielding on reaction while trying to approach on wifi to his advantage. I think I could've handled him better offline on just about any other stage, and I think I could actually beat him now most of the time potentially even on FD. The Dedede did great to cover my options from the ledge, but if I could find the best way to get back on stage against him, that would've been enough to turn the games since he was pretty manageable at mid and close ranges in the middle of the stage. The Mac just outplayed me though. He had the tech and the speed and I didn't have time to figure out any pattern he had to exploit since he mixed things up nicely. I bet he could beat me even harder offline.

 

[Shmeckie]

Sonic's a matchup that can feel worse than it actually is. A lot like Sheik, really (though I know a lot of folks here are downright afraid of Sheik). It can be discouraging to take 20 hits without landing a blow of your own. It feels like you're losing. Then you realize you've just evened up the damages after landing 2 hits of your own. Same applies to Sonic. Also if he goes for a spring gimp, a well-timed U-air actually cancels out the spring. The physical spring is still there, but it's no longer damaging. Or you can just move in, stay close to the stage, and recover from down deep (which is how I avoid the spring more often than not). I'm often surprised at how good Ganon's recovery can be, vertically speaking (it's still doo-doo butter horizontally, though). Don't be afraid to go deep.

Also I stand by the fact that Little Mac is, most likely, one of Ganon's best matchups, if not his best. He's got the killing power Mac does (minus the K.O. punch), better recovery, a Flame Choke to nullify his super armor compounded by the fact that Mac can be hit with a D-tilt follow-up even if he techs. Even against highly skilled Little Macs I can't recall a time I've ever had to put any real effort into a match against Mac with Dorf. You don't even have to edgeguard the guy; one boot and he's done. And as an added bonus, if he has his K.O. Punch, one Flame Choke > D-tilt combo takes it away from him, guaranteed.

 

[Opana]

I don't fear Sheik too much anymore, I realize now my few hits equal theirs and that helps me maintain confidence. The only thing I gotta worry about is the positional advantage those combos give, as far as heavy concery anyway as I know they can harass us in many ways.

I feel Sonic is a bit too hard to punish really, no so much about being combod as it's a lot of hit and run.

I feel the Mac mu is very player dependent, not much more to say here.

 

[Naroghin]

@ Shmeckie I know you said a lot of meaningful stuff but I just can't stop laughing at "doo doo butter" hahahaha

I think i mentioned it on here before but one day I faced 5 Sonics in a row on FG. I think I learned the matchup pretty well. Just patience and trying to maintain control of the middle of the stage. A lot of times I would do a Uair or Bair and they would just run right into it. Also, if you can anticipate a rolly attack (no idea what they actually are) you can wizkick them out of it.

Little Mac is the opposite: grounded. Don't go for strings (especially if he's countering everything) try to get that one good ftilt that sends him horizontally over the edge (or anything else, just get him off the edge).

 

[HeavyLobster]

Most of the Macs I've faced are waaay too aggressive with their Smash attacks vs. Ganon, and can be easily Flame Choked and punished mercilessly for it. Ganon beats up on the C-sticking scrubs like no other. Patient Mac players are much tougher to handle, though I don't see many of them.

 

[Ekans647]

I agree with you guys on the Little Mac MU, but I think Little Mac has some advantages over Ganondorf. His speed and pivots allows him to poke effectively and one hard read can KO you. But we have Flame Choke and Ftilt. So I would say Ganomdorf has an advantage, but it's not absolute.

Sorry I haven't been posting recently. My account stopped notifying me. does this happen to any of you guys?

 

[Opana]

Bad Macs are fun to fight lol but good ones feel a lot like mirrors except his moves come out a lot faster. Choke does hurt him bad though for sure.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Uuugh, been getting some actually good quality For Glory matches lately. Sonic is hard. Winnable, but really hard and not fun when they play conservatively and try to edgeguard you deep. The spacing and mindgames required to put him in an exploitable rhythm are just ridiculous at times, and my DI and recovery has to be absolutely perfect for me to not get gimped. I'll be much happier playing this matchup with WDK and Dark Fists so I at least don't have to stress out as much about recovery. Yeah I'm aware Hammer Spin Dash is a thing, but the main problem in this matchup imo is mostly Ganon's recovery. He'll make you miserable in neutral, but Flame Choke reads make him killable.

Aside from that...making some friends on For Glory is nice. I feel like most people who are trying to get better have a lot of fun playing against a competent Ganon.

Noticed that with all top tier characters excluding Rosalina, Pikachu and Sheik, Ganon needs to be extremely campy, and I mean don't approach, hit once, retreat, repeat till kill.

He can actually keep up with Sonic, Diddy, Ness and Yoshi like this, but the highest level of play would require these matchups to be very lengthy and boring.

 

[THE 6r]

Noticed that with all top tier characters excluding Rosalina, Pikachu and Sheik, Ganon needs to be extremely campy, and I mean don't approach, hit once, retreat, repeat till kill.

He can actually keep up with Sonic, Diddy, Ness and Yoshi like this, but the highest level of play would require these matchups to be very lengthy and boring.

You can be a bit more aggressive with Yoshi as those are predictable once you've fought about two of them.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Noticed that with all top tier characters excluding Rosalina, Pikachu and Sheik, Ganon needs to be extremely campy, and I mean don't approach, hit once, retreat, repeat till kill.

He can actually keep up with Sonic, Diddy, Ness and Yoshi like this, but the highest level of play would require these matchups to be very lengthy and boring.

I think the best characters often have too few weaknesses. Ganon and Falcon for instance are balanced characters that are very powerful but have situations where they can be exploited.

Due to how extremely safe Sonic is by design, he really only allows you to play a specific way against him. He was still unfun to play against in Brawl, but balanced by having terrible reward. But in this game, he has very strong reward, so thus he's awful to play against. Similarly I don't think most people like playing against Diddy given he's strong at a lot of things and not really weak anywhere except arguably his Up-B.

Ness's big weakness is supposed to be low mobility and poor recovery, but he's made annoying by being really small, a midweight, and having ludicrously high reward. I think Ganondorf actually does very well against Ness compared to most characters however because we can outspace him better than most characters and beat his PK Fire with Wizkick, and thus force him on the defensive where his low mobility actually then becomes a problem. The big problem we have in this matchup is Ness juggles us very easily with PK Thunder, but if he couldn't do that this matchup would be completely in our favor, arguably 6/4 Ganon.

 

[jahkzheng]

@ Shmeckie

I believe there's a lot of reasons to believe that Ganon has an advantage over Mac all things being equal... I just wasn't the equal of my opponent that day. More time and I'd have learned how to handle it better. I partially blame all the stupid Macs I've faced for making me so woefully unprepared for this good one. He was so slippery. Always felt like he was just outside my spacing for punishes or just plain faster to react. And even when he wasn't faster he managed to use his smash's superarmor. I think if I'd just been more patient, I could've managed the matches better.... maybe. Even out of shield I couldn't punish him well. He usually acted faster after a shielded move than I could. Hard to say what I could've learned or managed, but I'd like to think I'd have started to figure something out.

@ HeavyLobster

Yeah, likewise I guess.

His speed and pivots allows him to poke effectively and one hard read can KO you.

Yeah, sounds familiar. Don't think I'd actually fought a Mac that utilized pivots until this one and it was pretty dirty, heh.

 

[_Magus_]

This is deliciously ironic. Having been testing d throw > dash attack to gain info for my guide, I found that it true combos Link at 7%. These are the only conditions I've found where this actually true combos, and I wanted to see if you guys had found any other conditions for this. If not, this is hilarious. D throw > dash attack is only a true combo on Link? Too good.

 

[Shmeckie]

Ness's big weakness is supposed to be low mobility and poor recovery, but he's made annoying by being really small, a midweight, and having ludicrously high reward. I think Ganondorf actually does very well against Ness compared to most characters however because we can outspace him better than most characters and beat his PK Fire with Wizkick, and thus force him on the defensive where his low mobility actually then becomes a problem. The big problem we have in this matchup is Ness juggles us very easily with PK Thunder, but if he couldn't do that this matchup would be completely in our favor, arguably 6/4 Ganon.

It's actually not too hard to attack PK Thunder and kill it. I used to have huge problems with that until I figured that out. I think N-air kills it from above. U-air definitely kills it if they try to edge guard you with it.

 

[jahkzheng]

You can be a bit more aggressive with Yoshi as those are predictable once you've fought about two of them.

I imagine Yoshis can be like Macs. I bet there's a filthy Yoshi out there that will prove the exception to the rule. Yeah, the strings and combos you'll see are mostly the same, but how a player gets there can be entirely different. "Bad Yoshis" I've fought neglect pivots and try for downB too much and don't time or follow up egg throw hits in the air well. "Good Yoshis" do crap like pivot egglay you off the edge and almost always punish you shielding their pressure with a grab. I've not faced what I'd consider a "great Yoshi" though. I'm sure it would be the same as a how a "good Yoshi" plays but with more mix ups and far less missed opportunities with the addition of some nasty tech I've not seen. As a general rule though, Yoshi's play aggressive if they're not throwing eggs, so at least you usually have a rhythm to expect in my experience and an opportunity to punish mistakes. It's just a matter of how many mistakes are you going to see.


It just occurred to me that Yoshi's gameplan is pretty similar to Zamus's. Apply pressure and set you up with egg throw/paralyzer shots. Then rush in with a grab more than likely when the opportunity strikes. Then string/combo on you as long as possible and keep you in the air until they can finish you with an aerial off stage or their uair/upB off the top. They both seem to prefer to kill off the top in general but both have nice spike and gimp options. Yoshis are a bit more haphazard with their moves and use more smashes than Zami are in my experience though.

 

[Opana]

So any way to contact Gungnir? I really want to play some friendlies with him lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

So any way to contact Gungnir? I really want to play some friendlies with him lol.

I message him on Twitter. https://twitter.com/ganon_gungnir

His English is not bad, and he's pretty smart. He's trying his best to become more comfortable with English, so feel free to contact him yourself if you want to.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Wow, I haven't seen you guys in ages. Glad to see there's a Ganon social for the 3DS/Wii U boards. Expect me to swing by here more often. I'll subscribe to this thread in the meantime. Hi, Verm.