Social The Ganonic Grimoire - Kongregation of Kings

[Ryuutakeshi]

Well, because you have read what people post to actually moderate. Unless you're on like some sort of extended mod break or something. A mod break is a thing now by the way, as of one sentence ago.

A mod break has always been a thing. I took one back in the latter half of 2011.

 

[Bahamut777]

So... Ganon is an executive. A businessman. A corporate.

I'm ok with that.

 

[Vermanubis]

Not a huge Megadeth fan, but...

Spoiler

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

You seem pretty intent on making Ganondorf out to be more evil than he really is.

Is it even possible to get more evil than him? Let's list his crimes.

• Lying
• Theft
• Murder
• Attempting to abduct a princess
• Abduction of a princess
• Invasion of a peaceful kindgom
• Conquest of said peaceful kingdom
• Leveling a castle, numerous charges. And I'm guessing he didn't evacuate people.
• Desecration
• Destruction of sacred realms and locations
• Premeditated freezing of a peaceful society
• Possession of noble and royal officials
• Depending on wherever redeads come from, necromancy for villanous purposes
• Assault
• Resurrection of evil creatures and threatening to use them to maintain control over a population
• Attempted genocide
• Attempted forced starvation of a docile sentient species until submission
• Placing curses and hexes on unwilling creatures
• Cruelty to animals
• Willful destruction of natural environments
• Kidnapping in general
• Grand larceny

And if you want to count Hyrule Warriors

• Mental and emotional manipulation
• More possession
• Complete destruction of a sovereign kingdom, rendering it uninhabitable and unuseable for economic purposes

But I can say there seems to be no evidence towards sexual abuse, so there is that.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Is it even possible to get more evil than him? Let's list his crimes.

• Lying
• Theft
• Murder
• Attempting to abduct a princess
• Abduction of a princess
• Invasion of a peaceful kindgom
• Conquest of said peaceful kingdom
• Leveling a castle, numerous charges. And I'm guessing he didn't evacuate people.
• Desecration
• Destruction of sacred realms and locations
• Premeditated freezing of a peaceful society
• Possession of noble and royal officials
• Depending on wherever redeads come from, necromancy for villanous purposes
• Assault
• Resurrection of evil creatures and threatening to use them to maintain control over a population
• Attempted genocide
• Attempted forced starvation of a docile sentient species until submission
• Placing curses and hexes on unwilling creatures
• Cruelty to animals
• Willful destruction of natural environments
• Kidnapping in general
• Grand larceny

And if you want to count Hyrule Warriors

• Mental and emotional manipulation
• More possession
• Complete destruction of a sovereign kingdom, rendering it uninhabitable and unuseable for economic purposes

But I can say there seems to be no evidence towards sexual abuse, so there is that.

Don't forget assaulting multiple officers of the peace!
GBH, Battery, Crimes against the law of nature via immortality...

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Don't forget assaulting multiple officers of the peace!
GBH, Battery, Crimes against the law of nature via immortality...

On all but that last one I am willing to agree on. However, immortality in zelda seems to a common thing for powerful beings and technically Link and Zelda's spirits are functionally eternal.

 

[Sykkamorre]

...So the good guys are criminals too?

Legend of Zelda: Thug Lyfe.

 

[Oort]

Isn't ganondorf literally evil incarnate? It's hard to be more evil than that, if I'm honest.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

But I can say there seems to be no evidence towards sexual abuse, so there is that.

But what's scary about that is, we don't even know what he does to Zelda when he has her captive.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

But what's scary about that is, we don't even know what he does to Zelda when he has her captive.

Tries to rip the triforce of wisdom from her hand?

 

[The Pizza Guy]

Tries to rip the triforce of wisdom from her hand?

Yup.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

But what's scary about that is, we don't even know what he does to Zelda when he has her captive.

Takes good care of her until Link arrives?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Takes good care of her until Link arrives?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m9QUoW5KnY&t=2m11s

 

[Sykkamorre]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m9QUoW5KnY&t=2m11s

She loves it. All the ladies want Ganondorf's dark rod.

 

[Kamiko]

I think you're confusing efficiency and economy of conquest with compassion. Malevolent fervor and well-developed executive skills aren't mutually exclusive, after all.

Though, your point is well-taken, considering that shortly after this line

Ganondorf quickly states "Haha, just kidding. Come on guys just let me rule Hyrule, I don't wanna hurt anybody"

Lines like that didn't happen in Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker. They really don't fit in with the way he speaks in those games, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks Ganondorf was kind of shoehorned into Twilight Princess. Either way, sometimes people just say things to mess with whoever they're speaking to.

Is it even possible to get more evil than him? Let's list his crimes.

• Lying
• Theft
• Murder
• Attempting to abduct a princess
• Abduction of a princess
• Invasion of a peaceful kindgom
• Conquest of said peaceful kingdom
• Leveling a castle, numerous charges. And I'm guessing he didn't evacuate people.
• Desecration
• Destruction of sacred realms and locations
• Premeditated freezing of a peaceful society
• Possession of noble and royal officials
• Depending on wherever redeads come from, necromancy for villanous purposes
• Assault
• Resurrection of evil creatures and threatening to use them to maintain control over a population
• Attempted genocide
• Attempted forced starvation of a docile sentient species until submission
• Placing curses and hexes on unwilling creatures
• Cruelty to animals
• Willful destruction of natural environments
• Kidnapping in general
• Grand larceny

And if you want to count Hyrule Warriors

• Mental and emotional manipulation
• More possession
• Complete destruction of a sovereign kingdom, rendering it uninhabitable and unuseable for economic purposes

People aren't evil because of their actions, it's because of their reasons for taking them. Ganondorf did those things to fulfill his goals. Ridley on the other hand is much more evil because he does those kinds of things for pleasure. Sure, Ganondorf is a pretty terrible person for being okay with harming others, and yes he'll enjoy it when he does it, but this is a person who can laugh at his own death. He's not that evil.

Just for fun though, I'll pick apart some of the points on that list:

Lying- Oooh, so evil~
Destruction of sacred realms and locations- "Sacred" is subjective.
Necromany for villainous purposes- Since necromancy isn't evil on its own, you're literally just saying he's being villainous. Which is obvious.
Cruelty to animals- As opposed to... cruelty to plants? "Cruelty" is kind of vague anyway. See the above point on villainy.
Murder, invasion of a peacful kingdom, assault, willful destruction of natural environments- Animals do these things all the time with no malevolent intentions. Humans too, for the last one.

I haven't seen the story of Hyrule Warriors yet and I don't know who wrote it, so I don't know if I'd count that.

But I can say there seems to be no evidence towards sexual abuse, so there is that.

There's also no evidence for torture. Because as I said, Ganondorf generally only does what he thinks is required to achieve his goals. Otherwise, he'd be causing way more suffering than what we've seen. So far, the only time he may have canonically gone farther than that is in Wind Waker's backstory, which was probably out of rage. Even in the classics, the random townsfolk were left alone.


tl;dr: Ganondorf is fairly evil, but he's far from a complete monster.

 

[Lozjam]

Lines like that didn't happen in Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker. They really don't fit in with the way he speaks in those games, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks Ganondorf was kind of shoehorned into Twilight Princess. Either way, sometimes people just say things to mess with whoever they're speaking to.



People aren't evil because of their actions, it's because of their reasons for taking them. Ganondorf did those things to fulfill his goals. Ridley on the other hand is much more evil because he does those kinds of things for pleasure. Sure, Ganondorf is a pretty terrible person for being okay with harming others, and yes he'll enjoy it when he does it, but this is a person who can laugh at his own death. He's not that evil.

Just for fun though, I'll pick apart some of the points on that list:

Lying- Oooh, so evil~
Destruction of sacred realms and locations- "Sacred" is subjective.
Necromany for villainous purposes- Since necromancy isn't evil on its own, you're literally just saying he's being villainous. Which is obvious.
Cruelty to animals- As opposed to... cruelty to plants? "Cruelty" is kind of vague anyway. See the above point on villainy.
Murder, invasion of a peacful kingdom, assault, willful destruction of natural environments- Animals do these things all the time with no malevolent intentions. Humans too, for the last one.

I haven't seen the story of Hyrule Warriors yet and I don't know who wrote it, so I don't know if I'd count that.


There's also no evidence for torture. Because as I said, Ganondorf generally only does what he thinks is required to achieve his goals. Otherwise, he'd be causing way more suffering than what we've seen. So far, the only time he may have canonically gone farther than that is in Wind Waker's backstory, which was probably out of rage. Even in the classics, the random townsfolk were left alone.


tl;dr: Ganondorf is fairly evil, but he's far from a complete monster.

Ummm.... Hate to say it. But because he recognizes that what he does is wrong and does it anyway makes him more evil than Ridley. Ridley is just basically an animal. Also Ganondorf tries to kill gods all the time. There is nothing more evil than that, I am sorry. Killing a person < Killing sacred gods

 

[Heartstring]

So, all the old brawl Ganon mains congregating in here too?

Sweet.

 

[Z1GMA]

Hello thar, GP. Long time no see.

 

[Heartstring]

Yeah, it really has. Years even!

Gonna be fun rocking ganon in a game where he isn't awful. I'm interested to see how he pans out. Don't think he'll be high/top tier, but good enough to compete at least

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Ummm.... Hate to say it. But because he recognizes that what he does is wrong and does it anyway makes him more evil than Ridley. Ridley is just basically an animal. Also Ganondorf tries to kill gods all the time. There is nothing more evil than that, I am sorry. Killing a person < Killing sacred gods

Gonna step in on this one, but Ridley is actually fully sentient and very intelligent. He's just genocidal and vicious.

Ganondorf is proud, wrothful, greedy, ambitious, selfish, and cruel. Also genocidal and vicious. So... yeah... pretty evil.

Let's please not try to put the king of evil in leather pants.

 

[Electric Tuba]

I'd use a full-leather Biker Ganon skin. It'd be rad

 

[Heartstring]

That depends on what kind of Biker outfit he would have.
Hwoarang-esque biker Ganon? No plz
Paul-esque biker Ganon? Sign me the **** up

 

[Kamiko]

Doesn't he actually wear leather in Ocarina of Time? I always got a slight biker feel from him because of that. Only swap the bike out for a horse.

Ummm.... Hate to say it. But because he recognizes that what he does is wrong and does it anyway makes him more evil than Ridley. Ridley is just basically an animal. Also Ganondorf tries to kill gods all the time. There is nothing more evil than that, I am sorry. Killing a person < Killing sacred gods

I don't think Ganondorf views the Golden Godesses as sacred. Considering what they did to their beloved Hyrule, I don't see why he would. A god is just a person with immense power; they can be evil too. With how popular Kid Icarus has gotten, I'd expect people to understand that. Killing a god is no different than killing a human or animal.

Ridley is just basically an animal.

What Ryuutakeshi said. But let's not start an argument about that.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Killing gods tends to have greater ramifications.

 

[Lozjam]

Doesn't he actually wear leather in Ocarina of Time? I always got a slight biker feel from him because of that. Only swap the bike out for a horse.


I don't think Ganondorf views the Golden Godesses as sacred. Considering what they did to their beloved Hyrule, I don't see why he would. A god is just a person with immense power; they can be evil too. With how popular Kid Icarus has gotten, I'd expect people to understand that. Killing a god is no different than killing a human or animal.

What Ryuutakeshi said. But let's not start an argument about that.

Well technically, Ganondorf himself is a god, being a reincarnation of demise. But, look at the facts. The gods work much differently in Zelda than in KIU. Instead of each god being relatively equal, Zelda works on a very hierarchal level.
The three creation goddesses(din, farore, and nayru)
Then we have the servants of evil and good. Demise(therefore Ganondorf) wants to destroy what the goddesses made. Hylia(Later to be incarnated as Zelda) .
Then we have the sages.
Then the light spirits
The great fairies
The fairies
But here is something that could decide everything. Demise is really in charge of Ganondorf don't you think? Whenever Ganondorf turns into Ganon he has no control over himself. So we have both a cold and calculating villain, and a really powerful (almost) mindless beast. That is a lot more evil than Ridley could ever be.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Well technically, Ganondorf himself is a god, being a reincarnation of demise. But, look at the facts. The gods work much differently in Zelda than in KIU. Instead of each god being relatively equal, Zelda works on a very hierarchal level.
The three creation goddesses(din, farore, and nayru)
Then we have the servants of evil and good. Demise(therefore Ganondorf) wants to destroy what the goddesses made. Hylia(Later to be incarnated as Zelda) .
Then we have the sages.
Then the light spirits
The great fairies
The fairies
But here is something that could decide everything. Demise is really in charge of Ganondorf don't you think? Whenever Ganondorf turns into Ganon he has no control over himself. So we have both a cold and calculating villain, and a really powerful (almost) mindless beast. That is a lot more evil than Ridley could ever be.

Ridley also isn't a conqueror. He's just a ravager.

 

[Exalted]

So with the imminent return of havoc and destruction that Ganondorf will bring forth in the new Smash games, I figured it's time I return to my birthplace: the Ganon boards.

 

[Vermanubis]

I think Kamiko is afraid to accept the power and kingly sovereignty of Ganon.

Also, my friend Erika left the mark of Ganon at the tournament venue This weekend. I have no idea why she dated it 9/14 though.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

I'd imagine she meant "September 2014", rather than "September 14th."

 

[DLA]

Esteemed Gerudo warriors. My brothers in blood.

It has begun.

 

[Heartstring]

Just....gonna...put this here

 

[Z1GMA]

Just....gonna...put this here

Like I've said Before, your pose is like 99% accurate.

 

[Kamiko]

Well technically, Ganondorf himself is a god, being a reincarnation of demise.

Ganondorf is NOT a reincarnation of Demise. He exists because of Demise. That's it.

Demise(therefore Ganondorf) wants to destroy what the goddesses made.

Ganondorf doesn't want to destroy it, he wants to own it.

Then we have the sages.
Then the light spirits
The great fairies
The fairies

The light spirits are arguable, but I wouldn't call the other three gods of any sort.

But here is something that could decide everything. Demise is really in charge of Ganondorf don't you think?

Not really.

Whenever Ganondorf turns into Ganon he has no control over himself.

We don't know this for certain, that's just a popular theory.

So we have both a cold and calculating villain, and a really powerful (almost) mindless beast.

The only time Ganon was shown to be any degree of mindless was in the combined Oracle ending, and that was explained in-game.

That is a lot more evil than Ridley could ever be.

I don't see how that has anything to do with being evil.

I think Kamiko is afraid to accept the power and kingly sovereignty of Ganon.

I think you're all afraid to accept that Ganondorf isn't the generic villain you all want him to be.

 

[DLA]

We have a name for people like you, Kamiko.

I'd tell you what it is, but you'd probably want to argue about that, too.

 

[Kamiko]

There aren't any people like me. I'm the only one.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganondorf is NOT a reincarnation of Demise. He exists because of Demise. That's it.

Ganondorf would still exist even without Demise, it was Demise's hatred for the Gods which incarnated his spirit within Ganondorf.

We have a name for people like you, Kamiko.

Those damn Links.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

These damn Links.

LOL

There aren't any people like me. I'm the only one.

You forgot your past memory!

 

[Sykkamorre]

There aren't any people like me. I'm the only one.

Witty and original. No way any one of these billions of people who live on this Planet are like you.
Nope.

 

[Kamiko]

Ganondorf would still exist even without Demise,

You're right, I didn't word that properly. Ganondorf plays the role he does because of Demise. There we go.

it was Demise's hatred for the Gods which incarnated his spirit within Ganondorf.

There's no indication that Ganondorf contains Demise's spirit.

Witty and original. No way any one of these billions of people who live on this Planet are like you.
Nope.

Say what you want, but I've been looking for people with personalities close to mine, and I'm just not finding any.

 

[Sykkamorre]

You're right, I didn't word that properly. Ganondorf plays the role he does because of Demise. There we go.


There's no indication that Ganondorf contains Demise's spirit.



Say what you want, but I've been looking for people with personalities close to mine, and I'm just not finding any.

The worst judge of a persons personality is themselves.

Just saiyan.