The Fox SHINE GUIDE by NJ'zFinest

[SCOTU]

you can't try it. he patented it. I'll have to remember to not accidentally use it in my game.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

yeah, first im going to dshl and them im going to shRl. My laser actually reverses itself in the process.

MINDGAMEZ

 

[SCOTU]

I'm actually quite fond of the rshtl. first you sh over the edge...

 

[MartHNoobie]

lol this guide changed my mind from marth to fox :D

 

[NJzFinest]

yyyaayyyy!!!

 

[SCOTU]

I know certain combos like dash canceled shine>jc usmash, but does a jc shine work instead? You don't seem to slide as far when you jc the shine as compared to a dash canceled one.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

thats seems to be true. I notice that when i dash cancel a shine i dont have to worry about making it to the waveshine-ee again, If thats what youre talking about

 

[SCOTU]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but what i'm talking about is that you can dash cancel a shine, and jc a usmash directly out of your shine (no wavedash) and it's a true combo on everyone. and what i was saying, is that i don't like dash cancelling shines much, i prefer to jc them insted. But i noticed that you don't slide as much as a dash canceled one, so i was wondering if said combo still works with a jc shine instead of a dash canceled shine. sorry for any ambiguity before (or now for that matter).

 

[Brookman]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but what i'm talking about is that you can dash cancel a shine, and jc a usmash directly out of your shine (no wavedash) and it's a true combo on everyone. and what i was saying, is that i don't like dash cancelling shines much, i prefer to jc them insted. But i noticed that you don't slide as much as a dash canceled one, so i was wondering if said combo still works with a jc shine instead of a dash canceled shine. sorry for any ambiguity before (or now for that matter).

I also prefer taking the stair case to the 60th floor instead of taking the elevator.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

youre crystal clear now scotu, i must have been on the crack pipe at the time of reading your post

edit: anyone wanna tell me why people do waveshine to usmash then?! if its a combo on everyone this way, why not take out the wavedash?

 

[SCOTU]

because you have to be dashing. If you just shffl an aerial into someone and hit them with the shine, you can't just jc a usmash, you have to wavedash cause you don't have the momentum from the dash.

@Brookman: shut up, i'm bad at dash canceling, it's too freakin slow.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

LOL, okay, sorry once again scotu. 5 minutes after i made the post i went to my cube and realized why. GG

 

[dawn001]

does anyone know how to do a backward waveshine just like a forward waveshine i have try and i can to it but i cant seem to do it fast as the forward waveshine...i seen LordZellhs *.* CRAZY - FOX videos on how he does that drill shine on peach and i see him doing it backwards on peach is there anyone knows how to do it or tell me how to make it faster?
thanks!!! oh and here is the video

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[SCOTU]

Practice. That's all there is to it. It also isn't really necessary to do it backwards most of the time. I never use the backwards waveshine.

 

[dawn001]

Practice. That's all there is to it. It also isn't really necessary to do it backwards most of the time. I never use the backwards waveshine.

ok how about the multi shine with fox i know how to do it but iam not sure if aim doing right ..you slide your finger from the Y to the B then keep on doing it repeat is that the only way to do it?

 

[SCOTU]

Well, you jc a shine the same way you jc a grab/ usmash/ up b, just you use the shine anyway. A multishine is just any number of shines canceled by jc shines. Seriosly, don't even bother wasting time learning it until you have every, *EVERY* thing else technical down. perfectly. This technique is even less useful than for falco. It's just for catching shield grabbers off guard.

 

[brawlpro]

WOW! But what is a good way to practice waveshines on computers?

 

[SCOTU]

don't use a computer, plug in a controller, rubber band the L button down, and reset the controller so the c-stick defaults to down. (this will force them to continuously spot dodge). If you waveshine them, then you are doing it correctly.

 

[darkshy]

Thanks for the guide man it's obvious that Fox's shine is a force to be reckoned with. DOn;t underestimate its power!

 

[dead-aim]

recently i learned how to shine out of shield and there is nothing abbout that in here, any comments?

 

[Deleted member]

It falls under the category of JC shine, so I don't think it needs to be added... just be shielding when you start... useful technique to know, but self-explanatory...

 

[dead-aim]

what are the best situations to shine out of shield as apposed to u smash or a shield grab?

 

[Deleted member]

If your opponent is about to grab you or try something of that sort where the framecount is going to be against you, then the shine into some other combos work well... or if your opponent is dashing (wavedash or not), usually works... it's conditional though, to say the least...

 

[brawlpro]

this guide is awesome, how come it still not stickied?

 

[SCOTU]

Because SW cleaned up all the stickies since there were way too many.
It's in the post of guides though.

 

[SirroMinus1]

celebration
my 2,000th post on smashboards.

woot woot foxandfalco

thank you for the replies >.>

falco should be taller than fox

 

[Layupfreak]

nice thread!

 

[InfernalRaine]

i have trouble fighting samus what should i do?

 

[NJzFinest]

i have trouble fighting samus what should i do?

Look at my buddy CunningKitsune's Fox Guide

4. Samus

Samus, although perhaps not as common a match-up in tournament play as Falco,
Marth, or another Fox, is nevertheless quite a formidable character when used
correctly. Her wavedashing allows for excellent spacing, especially with re-
spect to your approach when combined with her down- and forward-smash. Her re-
covery is simply obscene, and her innate physics and powerful neutral-aerial
diminish the effectiveness of your classic up-throw-to-up-aerial routine. Samus
can obviously play a potent projectile set-up game, either baiting you with a
flurry of missiles, using them as a means of advancing on you, or controlling
your positioning while you are off-stage. Furthermore, Samus possesses a very
potent crouch-cancel counter game in her down-tilt and down-smash (especially
her down-smash) which when coupled with technical mistakes on your part and
edge-guarding on hers can often end more than a few of your stocks. However,
being the veritable toolbox character that he is, Fox has his own answers to
Samus's game which can tilt the match-up in his favor to a certain extent.

First off, it is especially critical in this match-up that you perform as per-
fect shuffles into shines as you possibly can; any missed L-cancels or fast-
falls will almost certainly see you hit with a down-smash out of a crouch-
cancel and possibly sent off-stage. You will quickly realize that crouch-
canceling is an integral part of a well-played Samus's game, and as such you
must do everything in your technical power to diminish or entirely remove this
advantage as it will be all too prevalent in any Fox vs. Samus match-up.

Next, you must make certain that you are able to follow effectively out of your
connected shines. You should not always go unthinkingly for the jump-canceled
grab from your waveshine in this match-up as, truth be told, your usual up-
throw is not nearly as potent a set-up in this match-up as in others. Samus
will at higher percents simply float upwards far out of your reach, or her
speedy and powerful neutral-aerial will simply swat you out of the sky before
your up-aerial connects. As such, focus on your simple waveshine to up-smash as
a finisher, and be wary of using your neutral-aerial as a lead-in for this;
since the neutral-aerial lifts Samus slightly off the ground, your shine will
hit her while she is airborne, and a shine landed on an aerial target produces
less stun time than on a grounded target, which may allow Samus to sneak out
a down-smash despite your speed. If you watch your spacing, shuffled down-
aerials can function as guaranteed lead-ins to that needed lethal up-smash. As
with other floatier characters, you can oftentimes follow Samus from a
connected neutral-aerial into a jump-canceled up-smash right then and there;
you may also want to begin utilizing your forward-aerial at the higher per-
cents if you are not too worried about opposing crouch-canceling. If you still
are troubled by Samus's crouching, you have another viable answer in falling
up-aerials, an innovative (and effective) means of both countering crouch-
canceling and of finishing off your foe. Keep in mind also that drill shine
repetitions are as effective as ever on Samus, but you may need to perform per-
fect wavedashes in order to reach her in time; enemy DI may also off-set your
drill shines, so adjust accordingly and remove drill shines from your routine
if you sense their effectiveness decreasing.

Spacing and angles of approach are also of critical importance in this match-
up; Samus's projectile game, wavedash, and crouch-canceling all can make
successful approaches via head-on shuffle assaults difficult, and you must thus
adjust accordingly. If you are having trouble breaking in on a defensive Samus,
try full-jumping and fast-falling your neutral-aerials when you feel that the
angle of your fall will allow you to connect with Samus (note that you
absolutely must fast-fall your aerial to avoid being crouch-canceled; Samus's
crouch-cancel and physics also reduce the viability of your Jabs as a follow-
up to your aerials, so it is safest to maintain shining from aerials instead).
Be careful about accidentally steering yourself into a recently-fired missile,
and be especially mindful if your opponent is prone to wavedashing backward in
response to your advances. A wavedash of proper length can allow the Samus both
to dodge your approaching aerial and to retaliate with her characteristic down-
and forward-smashes. You may have to throw some variations into the time prior
to your approach, for example, double-jumping and delaying the transition into
your second jump by stalling in the shine, in order to throw off your opponent
as to your method of approach. When you do connect with your aerial, punish as
best as you can. Be especially mindful of your more technical follow-ups, such
as your shuffles into Samus's shield; her up-B out of shield is surprisingly
quick and functions as a very reliable escape move as well as a means of
taking advantage of any flaws in your technical game. It is also difficult at
best to follow due to its lengthy stun time and the distance that it carries
Samus.

Do not be so quick as to rush after Samus if you believe you have her cornered.
For instance, if Samus forward-tilts your shield, you should not try to wave-
dash out immediately and attempt to punish; not only does her forward-tilt
carry little post-move lag, but also her retreating wavedash will allow her to
space out your approach quite easily with her choice of a down- or forward-
smash, with any further spacing problems solved by another reverse wavedash.
Remember also to be wary of attempting to follow Samus's descent. Her bombs
grant her an excellent means of changing her aerial path and tangling you up
in the air, allowing her an easy avenue of escape. You can attempt to follow
her with up-aerials and the like, but her added aerial movement and aerial
attacks, especially the neutral-aerial, will make this difficult; it is best to
wait until your opponent nears the ground, at which point Samus has a few less
options. However, she can still missile-cancel at this point, which may catch
you by surprise if you are not careful; whenever attempting to predict Samus in
the air, always keep in mind the possibility of a missile-cancel and whether
your position relative to her will put you in the path of that missile.

Edge-guarding Samus is tricky at times; she has a very versatile recovery be-
tween her up-B, grappling beam, and bombs, and her physics allow her to sur-
vive for quite some time. Obviously, you should not attempt to jump far out and
pursue a bomb-jumping Samus. Wait for her to near the stage, where you have
more options yourself. You can stall on the edge and see if you can force your
opponent to recover above you after he or she grapples onto the side of the
stage, in which case a ledge-wavedash to up-smash (or ledge-dropped up-aerial,
if Samus lands near enough) may be in order. You can also time a fall into a
shine-spike as Samus grapples the stage; though not the easiest of kill
methods, it is nevertheless quite effective. If she regains the ledge, watch
for a ledge-dropped forward-aerial into a down-smash, a classic Samus return
that will probably toss you off-stage and enable the Samus player's edge-
guarding. You can, however, shield through the forward-aerial and the down-
smash into an up-smash out of shield, but do not forget about the down-smash
follow-up or you will be the one being edge-guarded. In addition, many players
will opt to use that charge shot that they have been holding from the ledge as
a sort of surprise for you; keep this possibility in mind when guarding the
ledge as it is a very common procedure for a ledge-hanging Samus.

Samus has many options at her own disposal to edge-guard you. She can, for
example, down-tilt or -smash you out of your recovery, or she can spike you
with a well-positioned down-aerial, which you should be able to meteor-cancel.
A well-timed forward-smash can also catch you in your vulnerable frames as you
climb up from the ledge, so be wary of your predictability in that regard.

Stage choice for the Fox vs. Samus match-up yet again follows the standard
procedure. The Samus player will counterpick to a large level to minimize your
vertical kills, usually the customary Dream Land 64 and Kongo Jungle 64. You,
as always, want to maximize your vertical kills, especially on an opponent such
as Samus. Solid counter-choices include Yoshi's Story and Onett; you can also
make use of Corneria and Peach's Castle for their respective low ceilings and
the Castle for its infinite-enabling walls if you feel confident in dealing
with Samus's defensive gameplay.

Link: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=35050

 

[Rampage]

Just awesome! Very informative!

 

[_kSo_]

Look at my buddy CunningKitsune's Fox Guide



Link: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=35050

CunningKitsune is my idol!



heh, I'm about to head over to his place now for a bit of smash and then lunch...followed by class, but that's not till later

heh.

 

[Charlesz]

Yo thanks for the guide that helps you waveshine farther and plus this guide, kudos to you

 

[jerrisrockin]

i'm inspired. time to practice =]

 

[blindfreak9]

Do you have any advice on the timing of shining a fox or falco who is already performing an up-b (like fire fox, or fire bird)? I see dark do it all the time but i only do it 1/3 times. Is there a trick to this?

 

[FrootLoop]

grab the edge for ~30 frames of invincibility
let go asap
shine them while invincible

if you're trying to do it without invincibility then it's kinda hard timing and I'd recommend bair or daft or something easier to beat firefox/firebird with to make them recover from below so you can do the invincible shine like above

 

[FoxLisk]

Do you have any advice on the timing of shining a fox or falco who is already performing an up-b (like fire fox, or fire bird)? I see dark do it all the time but i only do it 1/3 times. Is there a trick to this?

you only see the clips where he gets it right :-\

If you can get ledge invuln its easy. otherwise it's really hard. the only real tips are:

1) face away from your opponent, your hitbox is a little more disjointed at your back

2) if you're below about 15% (not sure of the number) you can CC shine an up-B

 

[DemoPvP]

I've always been the person to get shine-spiked, so I recently swept Marth/Falco aside to try my hand at Fox, and i just spend an hour doing back-throw shine-spikes, drill-shines, and waveshine to upsmash. Nice guide, very old too apparently, so this is quite the late post.