The Final Smash item Thread *UPDATE: PIT!*

[Rx-]

Zamus looked to be a rather tough player from the videos, a nice remake of sheik almost, and I think that this update could have upset alot of sheik and samus players. Now does this mean that Zamus mains wont be able to use their character if smash balls are turned off... and does this mean that we might not be able to turn smash balls off.

Today's update probably ruined my will of being a Zamus player. Guess I'll just have to stick with MetaKnight. (Although I read on IGN that Metaknights final smash turned him into the Ice Climbers)

Edit: We posted at the same time and said sort of the same thing....

 

[lanky_gunner]

i really would love to play as Zamus. but this whole debate sort of sent it out of the park. if there was another way, there would be such a sigh of relief on these boards

 

[MzNetta]

Notice that this does NOT say "can be performed but once PER MATCH". I think it's far more realistic to assume that Sakurai means you can only perform a final smash one time for each time that you get a Smash Ball. In other words, once you pick up a Smash Ball, you only get to use the attack once, and don't get to do it again until you get ANOTHER Smash Ball.

If that were the case, which it is obviously not, then why would sakurai feel the need to even mention it???
MOST ITEMS EFFECTS CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE PER ITEM.
Honestly.
Come on, now.

I am in full agreement with you on this issue. Once per Smash ball is far more logical than once per match.

More logical, or more convenient for you?


Power like this needs to be limited.
Sakurai has set those limits already.
We're just ignoring them and hoping that somehow Sakurai lied about the smash ball and we can actually do whatever we want as long as its convenient for us.

 

[maxpower1227]

If that were the case, which it is obviously not, then why would sakurai feel the need to even mention it???
MOST ITEMS EFFECTS CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE PER ITEM.
Honestly.
Come on, now.

Really? So once you hit someone with a beam sword or home run bat, it disintegrates? Same with Lip's stick, star rod, etc? What about a ray gun? Parasol? Screw Attack? Fire flower? Green Shell? Super scope? Mr Saturn? Fan?

Seems there are quite a few items that are not one-time uses.

 

[Fawriel]

Those are quite different items, though. I never saw a character whacking away another or shooting them using the Smash Orb.
Name me one consumable item that can be used several times.

 

[maxpower1227]

Name me one consumable item that can be used several times.

Ray gun, super scope, fire flower

 

[Fawriel]

Consumable.
Those are usable.
Picking up a Smash Emblem makes it vanish, as seen in the first trailer, I think.
Like a Maxim Tomato, a Heart Container, Food, Metal Box...

 

[maxpower1227]

Those items aren't really "used" at all. In that respect the Smash Ball is unique. The point is that most items can be used more than once.

 

[MzNetta]

Oh yes, because we proved you wrong, that means that those items arent really used.
Have fun hoping and praying that sakurai lied to us and smash balls will fall from the sky every 10 seconds.
If only we could all be on the side of logic and reason....

 

[maxpower1227]

By "use" I mean "swing or throw". In other words, use offensively. You haven't proven me wrong.

And even so, you said that "most" item effects are used once. Fawriel named a few counterexamples, but still the majority of items are NOT used just once.

 

[MzNetta]

And how about the Giant/Tiny mushrooms, or the Warp Star?
I'm leaving this endless argument.
You people can't be persuaded or convinced to think.
It's not worth it.
You'll just have to wait until Dec 3rd to find out that youre wrong while the rest of us enjoy it.

ttyl<3

 

[Fawriel]

Well, I guess now that I think about it he DOES have a point since you seem to actually store the Smash Orb until you use it.
But it still seems really obvious that you can only use it once.

 

[maxpower1227]

What about them? What about the DOZEN items I listed?

You're right about one thing though, this is a stupid, pointless argument. I just find it completely unreasonable to have a "one-time-per-match-per-character" limitation on any item or move. Like I said, this isn't Mortal Kombat.

If there was a way of making the attack truly final, meaning it would only come at the end of a match, it would make much more sense. The problem is in actually ensuring that. Say you have a 5 stock match and one fighter (say Link) has 4 stocks left, but their opponent (DK) is down to one. Now a Smash Ball drops, but DK grabs it instead.... So I don't think that's what they intended.

 

[WoapGang]

Xactly maxpower! that makes the most sense

 

[Makkun]

I personally think "Final" is just used for the name, as in the final, or strongest of "smash" attacks, even though it's through an item. >> - But not having significance in when the item falls.

 

[WoapGang]

I personally think "Final" is just used for the name, as in the final, or strongest of "smash" attacks, even though it's through an item. >> - But not having significance in when the item falls.

oh yea...and if Zero Suit Samus is the result of the Zero Laser, then there would be no tine to play as her if it was at the end of the match

 

[maxpower1227]

Well, I think there should probably be another way of becoming Zamus. The FS should be the enormous charge beam shot, not the Zamus. Like they said on the site, Zamus is less powerful. For all we know they really intend for her to be balances with Samus.

 

[RedMarf]

Zamus better be selectable

 

[MzNetta]

When Samus destroys her Power Suit, she’s left with the Zero Suit. What she’s lost in power and weaponry, she makes up for in speed!

Zamus isn't 'weaker'.
She has different strengths than when she has her suit.
Get this straight plz.

 

[maxpower1227]

What you just quoted specifically states that she "[loses] power". That's all I said. I also mentioned that she was probably intended to be balanced with Samus (by way of her different strengths, like you mentioned).

So, Zamus is less powerful (i.e., weaker), but not necessarily inferior.

 

[_Phloat_]

Zamus isn't 'weaker'.
She has different strengths than when she has her suit.
Get this straight plz.

Hopefully not different strengths like mewtwo and fox

>_<

 

[Leobenmc]

I'd like to clear this up, because I've read a lot of posts on this forum that has made me VERY angry.

It's in regards on how the Final Smash is activated.

OF COURSE, You can CHOOSE WHEN YOU ACTIVATE THE FINAL SMASH. IT'S OBVIOUS.
I can't believe the uproar that ZSS's transformation has caused. You don't have to use the Final Smash - you can however collect the Smash Balls to stop other people using it.

Proof:
If you CAN'T ACTIVATE THE FINAL SMASH, How the hell do you aim Mario's Finale? Would you have to jump into the Smash Ball backwards to shoot it the other direction? Of course not.
I predict that you press A + B to use it. I think it's perfect. I don't know why some are slightly uneasy about the concepts of Final Smash. It really irritates me.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Leoben, it's not what people don't know about Smash Balls, it's what we do know.

What we do know is that Samus needs to perform her final to become Zamus. What if don't want to become Zamus? That makes me unable to use my final. Sure you can hold it for as long as you want, but if you want to stay as Samus, it looks like you shouldn't be using that beam blast.

Another thing which you don't seem to understand is the disruption it could cause in a competative mode. Check this out http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109863

Please read up a little before you respond...

 

[Smiles]

ok the smashball is prolly and item and if items are usually turned off during tournaments than how the heck would you bring out zero suit samus?

has someone already posed the question. idk i'm to lazy to check

 

[Leobenmc]

I think if Samus's Final Smash was left without the compulsory ZSS transformation, it'd be TREMENDOUSLY overpowered and incredibly unbalanced. Think about it! Compare the Final Smashes for all the other characters -
Mario Finale - watch the video again, it has little to no knockback
Triforce Slash - Can Attack ONE
Volt Tackle - Has to be controlled
Giga Bowser - Has to be controlled
Now look at this picture:

Now THAT looks like automatic OWNAGE. That looks overpowered compared to the others. It NEEDS a dramatic downpoint, and being that it is FINAL Smash, Sakurai wants a character to hit the FINAL point home - ZSS, perfect. Makes AMAZING sense.

And please, don't assume I haven't read up on subjects. Items were banned in Melee for Randomness, BUT LOOK

RANDOMNESS CONFIRMED. ITEMS BANNED.

 

[MzNetta]

Leoben, it's not what people don't know about Smash Balls, it's what we do know.

This is true.

What we do know is that Samus needs to perform her final to become Zamus.

Wrong. All we know, is that when samus uses her FS, she becomes Zamus. We don't know if thats the only way.

What if don't want to become Zamus? That makes me unable to use my final.

Wrong again. You can save it until you opponent has 1 stock left, then unleash it for the KO.

Sure you can hold it for as long as you want, but if you want to stay as Samus, it looks like you shouldn't be using that beam blast.

See above.

Ten Characters

 

[maxpower1227]

@Leobenmc's post^

1) It looks like anyone standing on the ground on the platform below Samus would be safe from the Zero Laser, and the picture was shown with all 3 opponents for effect.

2) For as impressive and devastating as it appears, we have no idea how much damage that attack will do.

3) In the trailer, Samus took some time to charge up the Zero Laser before firing. This probably gives opponents time to run for cover, and maybe even punish Samus before the beam fires. We don't know.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Takun my point was that we only have certain info, and that's the only thing we can consider - not what we belive COULD happen, which is everything you're countering my argument with.

True, you could save the blast until the end, but have you considered that it's possible to use a final more than once? Why should Samus be limited to one final per match in order to not become Zamus?

I suppose no one knows anyways though, and I'm not any more knowlagable than anyone.

 

[Leobenmc]

@Leobenmc's post^

1) It looks like anyone standing on the ground on the platform below Samus would be safe from the Zero Laser, and the picture was shown with all 3 opponents for effect.

2) For as impressive and devastating as it appears, we have no idea how much damage that attack will do.

3) In the trailer, Samus took some time to charge up the Zero Laser before firing. This probably gives opponents time to run for cover, and maybe even punish Samus before the beam fires. We don't know.

1) Admittedly, it doesn't have the vertical displacement that Mario's Finale has, but it definitely has a BIG hitting range (i.e. anyone on the same plane'll be devastated- Final Destination PWNT!).

2) True, you can put forward the thesis that the 3 chars in that picture are high damage - hence the high knockback. But it seems like a long, more powerful Blastoise Blast.

3) If you look at Mario's charge up time in the same trailer, there's a similar delay. I believe all Final Smashes have this "charge" up for dramatic effect (and Samus' charge was shot from different angles and with cuts to Pit and Metaknight)

 

[Stryks]

The zero laser can easily be avoid in stage like the castle, if ur on a top level u will easily be hit, but on a lower level or behind samus u can easily dodge it, same goes with mario, tough Mario final seems to only concentrate on damage, and not to KO an oponent, Im sure mario does incredible damage, while samus does decent damage but enough knockback to KO u...

 

[The Bino]

@Leobenmc's post^

1) It looks like anyone standing on the ground on the platform below Samus would be safe from the Zero Laser, and the picture was shown with all 3 opponents for effect.

2) For as impressive and devastating as it appears, we have no idea how much damage that attack will do.

3) In the trailer, Samus took some time to charge up the Zero Laser before firing. This probably gives opponents time to run for cover, and maybe even punish Samus before the beam fires. We don't know.

Yea but if you look at the Zero Laser, you will see that it is at an angle, so maybe you can control where you want to attack at with Samus before you shoot it at whomever you want to shoot at

RANDOMNESS CONFIRMED. ITEMS BANNED

Actually when it was banned in Tournaments for Randomness it was because of explosives being inside those crates and barrels, do you know what's inside that rolling crate NO!!!!!! noone does except for Sakurai and his team... Items may/may not be banned from Tournament play, how about you wait until December 3rd, play the game until December 4th and let me know if you think items are banned because of randomness..... all of this speculation is going to go nowhere without solid information and you won't get any solid information unless 1 of 2 things occur:

1 - Sakurai Confirms it for you in the weekday updates

2 - The Game is released and you play it and confirm what is in the game yourself

 

[wazgood]

$20 says you can hold a to turn into zamus

 

[jb254]

For anyone wondering how Kirby's Final will work, look at this entry I found for how Cook Kirby's power works in his games:

"Cook: Practicing his culinary skills, Kirby throws every enemy on the screen, even defeated mini bosses, and cooks them, turning them into scrumptious food that restores health. This ability is rare, and is only able to be used once."

Looks like it'll be one of the rare Finals that will stop ingame action.



And for anyone worried about not being able to play as Zamus without doing a Final:

I'm convinced that Zamus will be a character that you select on the character select screen. After playing Zero Mission again, I think Zamus' Final will have her turning into Samus. My guess, she drops a power bomb, the energy hurts anyone in range, however the energy also restores Zamus' armor.

I understand people may have a problem with being forced to play with a different character after using a Final, but, that's life. You have to deal with tradeoffs. Best advice is to learn to deal with it and move on. As for me, I'm going to enjoy pounding my opponent with and without the Power Suit in the same match.

 

[M.K]

You know, it could turn out that Zamus is a god-like character, so quit saying it'll mess you up, nobody can complain until we know all the details

 

[Phaazoid]

this really needs to be updated. with donkeys and pits.

but if i remember, stryks is entering college, so we won't be hearing much from him.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

Dude, there's a new Final Smash! Where's the guy that updates this thread?

 

[Stryks]

That would be me, sorry I dont have time, If a mod can do it go ahead, I g2g soon XD

 

[Pyroloserkid]

Wow lazy kids lol.

So Pit's FS imo, is lame. As Youko said on Show Me Your News! , I don't think it could do much damage...unless each little centurion had the brute power of the Smash 64 hammer...
That would be something.

 

[lanky_gunner]

it's the number of centurions that's going to make it powerful. they may deal minimal damage, but there is probably a lot of them to deal sufficient damage

 

[OnyxVulpine]

O.. just noticed that theres no Pit.. Oh well hehe.. Or is there, I don't want to search through the thread (too lazy :/ )

Good job, they look a lot more devestating all next to each other though. Looking forward to future smashes

-Onyx