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The Falcon Social
- Thread starter :mad:
- Start date
Sovereign
Game Reaper
Agree'd... Ganondorf bends the **** title of that version pretty hard. There's nothing balanced about it. I don't care though. Falcon is good in Brawl, I just need to go to more local tournies and prove it. He's better than this bottom tier BS.
Mit
Smash Ace
Do you mean Ganon's really good? Because he's still not that good. And I can't see how anyone who's ever looked into it longer than 5 minutes, and played it themself, could say there's nothing balanced about it. That's just being ignorant.
Of course, I'm also forgetting where I am -.-
Sovereign
Game Reaper
This coming from someone who doesn't know if I've played it longer than five minutes or not.
I have indeed played the game long enough to know that Ganondorf is broken, and that it's stupid. That version of Brawl fails. The only thing I like about it is their work on making some of the counterpick stages neutral. (i.e. - Mushroomy Kingdom)
And so you can remember, you're in the Falcon Boards. Where men are chosen by Falcon to main, discuss, and appreciate him in all his spandex'd glory. I don't think you're one of those people, Mit.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Avid BB Ganon user here. Ganon still can't handle projectile spam nor extended shield pressure, his grab range is still horrible, he can't force an approach, and he still has trouble approaching in general. He deserves a few "broken" elements in lieu of his shortcomings. He's a scary man, and he should be feared as such if he manages to get near you.
If Ganon's getting inside your bubble, you're not playing gay enough
, or you lack adequate spacing, the ability to use basic projectiles, etc
noradseven
Smash Lord
That tier list is ****ed to begin with any decent ZSS player will tell you that the ZSS vs fox matchup is slightly in fox's favor and the MK match is slightly MKs favor, jab/over B actually punish all his up B shenanigins, and dashattack/grab makes his nado more unsafe than normal.
Also how the **** is luigi/falcon not worse, and falcon/jiggs not worse, I mean seriously WTF do you have no good luigi's/ jiggs.
Samus vs DDD is bad, quite bad cause if he grabs you its a guessing game you guess wrong you die, ohh wait, whats this a good samus can wall the **** out of DDD with all her **** plus d-air is a gay as hell move.... and its 9-1.
Also with the huge gap in points how come IC isn't top of C instead, justa gahhahhhhhhhh.
there is just so much wrong with that chart im going to stop looking at it.
As far as falcon should be higher on the real tier list I have to agree in some ways, he can move he can deal damage, and if your safe he can be decent though in all honesty the majority of the charcters you see in tourney will be bad matches like 6-4/7-3, so enjoy having to be better by a decent margin than everyone else at the tourney either that or getting **** lucky.
Seriously I have no idea how many people go woah I thought this was like a 8-2 match im like dude you gotta like actually be scared of him and camp the **** out of me, otherwise its more like 6-4 and your being overconfident on top of that p. much puts it straight into my favor.
Im just saying they just need to make ganon's over B have a different animation on hit and do like 30-40% damage, the oki is good after it right now, and with enough yomi layers j. over B can be terrifying, but still.
Also for BBrawl make j. over B give better oki than it does now, aka make the stun after them being slammed be a bit longer, thankfully most people are to frantic to think smart and I can get them anyways but still.
edit: tell this to the team or whatevs
make ganon air over B do 15% damage, and give it mad hitstun on slam aka so I can **** well oki them grrrr.
make ganon over B ground do ~30-40% damage, and do tons of extra small explosions before the final one that is their now, also put in an evil laugh, keep the knockdown the same.
Also how the **** is luigi/falcon not worse, and falcon/jiggs not worse, I mean seriously WTF do you have no good luigi's/ jiggs.
Samus vs DDD is bad, quite bad cause if he grabs you its a guessing game you guess wrong you die, ohh wait, whats this a good samus can wall the **** out of DDD with all her **** plus d-air is a gay as hell move.... and its 9-1.
Also with the huge gap in points how come IC isn't top of C instead, justa gahhahhhhhhhh.
there is just so much wrong with that chart im going to stop looking at it.
As far as falcon should be higher on the real tier list I have to agree in some ways, he can move he can deal damage, and if your safe he can be decent though in all honesty the majority of the charcters you see in tourney will be bad matches like 6-4/7-3, so enjoy having to be better by a decent margin than everyone else at the tourney either that or getting **** lucky.
I dislike non-offical patching for many reasons, but yeah this guy is right ganon can't handle playing gay and defensive which IS high level play in Brawl....and BBrawl
Seriously I have no idea how many people go woah I thought this was like a 8-2 match im like dude you gotta like actually be scared of him and camp the **** out of me, otherwise its more like 6-4 and your being overconfident on top of that p. much puts it straight into my favor.
Im just saying they just need to make ganon's over B have a different animation on hit and do like 30-40% damage, the oki is good after it right now, and with enough yomi layers j. over B can be terrifying, but still.
Also for BBrawl make j. over B give better oki than it does now, aka make the stun after them being slammed be a bit longer, thankfully most people are to frantic to think smart and I can get them anyways but still.
edit: tell this to the team or whatevs
make ganon air over B do 15% damage, and give it mad hitstun on slam aka so I can **** well oki them grrrr.
make ganon over B ground do ~30-40% damage, and do tons of extra small explosions before the final one that is their now, also put in an evil laugh, keep the knockdown the same.
Mit
Smash Ace
Ganon's not broken. Ask every other person who has played it, and bring it up in any of the conversations that go on in the thread for it, from people who play the game regularly. I'm inclined to think you're the one who's wrong if you're in an incredibly small minority that thinks Ganon is broken.
And I do love Falcon, but playing him more and more at higher level play just frustrates you at the game because he's so undeniably bad against the majority of the cast. He pretty much belongs exactly where he is on the vBrawl tier list, and it just gets tired and boring losing almost constantly to high tier characters. He becomes a character merely to play for fun and shiggles, but I like the competitive side of Brawl as well. BBrawl however, gives him a much better chance, as well as the majority of the lower tier characters, allows for more diverse competition, and about 100% less gay strategies. It also doesn't change its codeset every other week, to ensure everyone's playing the same thing.
Although, why in the hell am I even trying to justify it, your opinion seems to be set in stone and based off a few things you have a misconception about. -.-
And I do love Falcon, but playing him more and more at higher level play just frustrates you at the game because he's so undeniably bad against the majority of the cast. He pretty much belongs exactly where he is on the vBrawl tier list, and it just gets tired and boring losing almost constantly to high tier characters. He becomes a character merely to play for fun and shiggles, but I like the competitive side of Brawl as well. BBrawl however, gives him a much better chance, as well as the majority of the lower tier characters, allows for more diverse competition, and about 100% less gay strategies. It also doesn't change its codeset every other week, to ensure everyone's playing the same thing.
Although, why in the hell am I even trying to justify it, your opinion seems to be set in stone and based off a few things you have a misconception about. -.-
Sovereign
Game Reaper
Continue to think all you want. Minority or not, some to most of those changes were not necessary. If anything, just turn him back into a Falcon clone, since he was much better then, than he is now.
Falcon is very useable in competitive play, as he has many things other than speed going for him. It's all about where you are, and what you know about who you're fighting against. Most to all matches may seem like they're incredibly difficult for him to win, but they're not. Falcon in Brawl simply comes down to personal skill and the ability to outsmart your opponent, and to also know what your opponent can/will against you in certain situations. Top/High Tiers are not that big'o'deal for Falcon.
I've always and still do think of tier lists as popularity placements. Nothing more, nothing less.
Falcon is very useable in competitive play, as he has many things other than speed going for him. It's all about where you are, and what you know about who you're fighting against. Most to all matches may seem like they're incredibly difficult for him to win, but they're not. Falcon in Brawl simply comes down to personal skill and the ability to outsmart your opponent, and to also know what your opponent can/will against you in certain situations. Top/High Tiers are not that big'o'deal for Falcon.
I've always and still do think of tier lists as popularity placements. Nothing more, nothing less.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Ganon is a low odds/mid risk/high reward character, I think to balance him instead of ****ing with the risk they just need to make the reward much MUCH higher. IDK but an over B that does 30 damage, and an air over B that have longer stun for the oppenent for functional oki and does 16 damage would be a good start.
What Im saying is make all his **** do far more damage, and some more knockback, right now ganon is like low/mid in doubles, if you did this he could actually be played in big doubles tournies seriously, and in singles wouldn't be a huge joke.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Think about it though...if side B did this much damage would people really get hit by it as much. j.side B is much better at landing.
Plus like I said this is giving ganon no speed/hitbox buffs just make him do a ****ton.
Doing stuff like this would maybe put him like mid tier.
Also I like to imagine the side B having menaicle laughter and multiple explosions.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
lol wow a 30dmg sideB? That choke chain would really pack a punch.
imo, all ganon needs is a faster jab, bigger upB hit box + distance, instant KO warlock punch/murder fist, a faster utilt, and a faster aerial with a bigger hitbox
but guess what. . . . This is the Falcon Boards
Just look at Ace's sig and everything will come clear
imo, all ganon needs is a faster jab, bigger upB hit box + distance, instant KO warlock punch/murder fist, a faster utilt, and a faster aerial with a bigger hitbox
but guess what. . . . This is the Falcon Boards
Just look at Ace's sig and everything will come clear
noradseven
Smash Lord
choke chain is not a 100% chance of landing, its a oki mixup, and as long as you arn't *** predictable. you have 4 options to escape, it as well, roll fowards,roll backwards, quick get up(this normally works, against most ganons),attack get up, you can also delay your actions slightly and possibly eat a free d-tilt, but I mean if you are really havn't that many problems getting out of the chain choke it could be worth it. In the corner your options are far more limited tip roll to the center if he hits you guess what you now get the 4 ways to escape.lol wow a 30dmg sideB? That choke chain would really pack a punch.
imo, all ganon needs is a faster jab, bigger upB hit box + distance, instant KO warlock punch/murder fist, a faster utilt, and a faster aerial with a bigger hitbox
but guess what. . . . This is the Falcon Boards
Just look at Ace's sig and everything will come clear
warlock punch will never land it hitbox is terrible not to mention its speed, utllt is ****ing hillarious against cypher and useless otherwise unless it was ALOT faster.
Bigger grab range with both regular grab and up B, would be nice ohh I got an idea can you make up B NOT PUNISHABLE ON HIT, by that I mean mash f-air with marth when you are being up Bed by ganon even at like 40-50 % yeah its total bull
.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Well I still don't believe that the characters are the ones that are bad, I blame the Brawl's lack of hitstun. Each character is designed with a main style of attack.
MK=spam
Snake=mindgames
Marth=CQC Range
Falcon/Ganon=Combos
Its the fact that both Ganon and Falcon are designed as highly aggressive characters that brings them to their doom with the lack of hit stun.
Just my thoughts. :3
MK=spam
Snake=mindgames
Marth=CQC Range
Falcon/Ganon=Combos
Its the fact that both Ganon and Falcon are designed as highly aggressive characters that brings them to their doom with the lack of hit stun.
Just my thoughts. :3
Sovereign
Game Reaper
The lack of hitstun in Brawl forces players to test their ability to out think one another with what one has at their disposal. Hitstun allows easy gimps, easy combos, and prolonged helplessness.
I've noticed that more characters will get KO'd in the bottom left/right of a stage in Brawl+/Melee moreso than a character in Brawl.
Snake's mass array of options is what makes mindgaming with him almost too easy. I won't argue with you on him.
I can't remember waht CQC is at the moment, so you'll have to remind me.
Falcon and Ganon simply don't have any means of camping, which forces them to be more aggressive in close combat, which is why no one has the patience to truly learn them, excep a certain few players.
Brawl is what you make it. Without hitstun, it's still a fairly competitive game. Characters have their own identity in Brawl, IMO, and hitstun would only help a small bit. Maybe someone should hack Brawl, and simply add hitstun, and see what would happen from there. Some think MK would be broken beyond belief, but it all depends. I would like to still see what it would be like.
I've noticed that more characters will get KO'd in the bottom left/right of a stage in Brawl+/Melee moreso than a character in Brawl.
MetaKnight is not just spam. He's capable of spamming well, with a giant, moving hitbox, but that's not his style. His style is quick and lagless attack. Being able to get in and out, when it counts, and finish the stock on that final mistake. He's a character that can apply some of the greatest pressure, and breaks the opponent down.Slader7 said:
Snake's mass array of options is what makes mindgaming with him almost too easy. I won't argue with you on him.
I can't remember waht CQC is at the moment, so you'll have to remind me.
Falcon and Ganon simply don't have any means of camping, which forces them to be more aggressive in close combat, which is why no one has the patience to truly learn them, excep a certain few players.
Brawl is what you make it. Without hitstun, it's still a fairly competitive game. Characters have their own identity in Brawl, IMO, and hitstun would only help a small bit. Maybe someone should hack Brawl, and simply add hitstun, and see what would happen from there. Some think MK would be broken beyond belief, but it all depends. I would like to still see what it would be like.
teluoborg
Smash Otter
CQC = Close Quarters Combat. Though with Marth it's more mid range than close range.
noradseven
Smash Lord
MK is not spam lol, he is a pressure character, which is kinda tricky to be in brawl cause PSing is overpowered, but with MK even with PS the punish window is tight/nonexistant.
Snake really is mindgames.
Marth is more mixups and shield pressure, Marths goal is to constantly be attacking you in a way you cannot counter, and if you are low enough on shields go for a quick shield/d break/shield poke.
Falcon/Ganon really don't have combos, trust me I play ZSS she has true combos(un DI/SDIable, not stun stuff either lol), all over the place, and even then they are 3-4 hits if you are lucky...and yeah they were designed as aggressive characters in a game that favors defense.
teluoborg
Smash Otter
I think what Slader says is : Falcon and Ganon would have combos if there was hitstun. But there's no hitstun => Falcon and Ganon Suck.
He needs both.
teluoborg
Smash Otter
Yeah, I too think Ganon would be better if he wasn't so bad.
...
Seems like I just summed up the last two pages.
...
Seems like I just summed up the last two pages.
That's subjective and varies according to each game's engine.
Ganondorf would need L-Cancelling so he initiate those moves which subsequently lead to combos if hitstun was implemented into Brawl, which it isn't; or which isn't on a notable level where you can actually do something with hitstun on a frequent and regular basis.
So, he technically would need both. Think Melee. Which Brawl isn't, obviously.
Lol @ Teluoborg.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2005
- Messages
- 8,189
Eh, ff nair combo'd. Dtilt, uair and dair all combo'd. His D throw combod with bad di.
Also, FALCON POST
Willz
Smash Master
What happened to this board it's so... lame.
