The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[smashkirby]

Personally, I'm still keeping some faith. Heck, I'd be chill with an AT or even a normal trophy.

 

[Deleted member]

What you have to remember in relation to the item is that the Screw Attack item, like the Launch Star and the Hocotate Bomb, was introduced as part of a character's moveset before becoming an individual item. We've never had an established item become part of a character's moveset before.

And yet Sakurai also once said we won't get a Hazard Toggle because it would be too similar to Playstation All-Stars. Or the infamous "Ridley's too big". I'll be blunt, I don't care at all about an arbitrary restriction of what came first. What matters to me is that both things can co-exist together with no one being confused. Rules are meant to be broken and especially this game seems to be breaking all kinds of established rules. If we know one thing about Sakurai, it's that we don't actually know anything.

Also Dark Pit's Final Smash was important enough to Sakurai that this was the reason he was made a separate character to begin with, because using the Three Golden Treasures "wouldn't have made sense".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And yet Sakurai also once said we won't get a Hazard Toggle because it would be too similar to Playstation All-Stars. Or the infamous "Ridley's too big". I'll be blunt, I don't care at all about an arbitrary restriction of what came first. What matters to me is that both things can co-exist together with no one being confused. Rules are meant to be broken and especially this game seems to be breaking all kinds of established rules. If we know one thing about Sakurai, it's that we don't actually know anything.

Also Dark Pit's Final Smash was important enough to Sakurai that this was the reason he was made a separate character to begin with, because using the Three Golden Treasures "wouldn't have made sense".

Exactly this. While it's fair to look at previous entries for an idea of what could happen, we shouldn't dismiss new ideas either.

 

[N. Onymous]

Uh yeah, I'd also like to point out how utterly massive Lip's Stick is, at least in Ultimate. Seriously, look at this:

Assuming Richter is of average height for an 18th-century man... yikes. He's holding it two-handed! Compare that to Lip's official artwork:

If they're that concerned about people confusing Lip's wand for the Lip's Stick item, just make Lip's wand smaller and always closed unless it's attacking, and leave the item as is. No one could possibly confuse them that way.

 

[Siggy88]

Uh yeah, I'd also like to point out how utterly massive Lip's Stick is, at least in Ultimate. Seriously, look at this:

Assuming Richter is of average height for an 18th-century man... yikes. He's holding it two-handed! Compare that to Lip's official artwork:

If they're that concerned about people confusing Lip's wand for the Lip's Stick item, just make Lip's wand smaller and always closed unless it's attacking, and leave the item as is. No one could possibly confuse them that way.

Or you know, Richter has just been minied with a poison mushroom and the stick doesn't scale. I mean he's pikmin's size there.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Or you know, Richter has just been minied with a poison mushroom and the stick doesn't scale. I mean he's pikmin's size there.

Midna already said that.

It's more the point that the flower can have a different design so it's hard to tell them apart that was his key point.

I've already learned that circumstancial evidence for disconfirmations shouldn't be taken too seriously. But I also learned to not discount 'em either.

 

[ChronoBound]

Lip is technically not de-confirmed but things are not rosy either. I thought a possible backdoor way for Lip to get in would be through as an Ashley echo (since they share the same body type and use a staff/wand). Since Ashley has been de-confirmed that possible route has been blocked off.

We had Dark Samus, Chrom, and K. Rool all confirmed today. Two of those characters have not been in a game for their own series since 2007, and Chrom is from a game all the way back in 2012 (Japanese release) and several games behind (Fates, Shadows of Valentia, and Three Houses). If there is any game for Lip to get in, its this one.

However, I am personally very pessimistic that she will get in as a playable character. I am personally hoping for some more remixes of Panel de Pon tracks aside from Lip's theme. With over 800 music tracks, hopefully at least one more track gets remixed.

She might also possibly be an Assist Trophy too. That too would benefit her a great deal. I wrote in the Dark Samus thread that her inclusion as an Assist Trophy in Smash 4 was an integral ingredient for her to be promoted into a playable fighter. The same would hold true for Lip.

We shall see what happens.

 

[N. Onymous]

Or you know, Richter has just been minied with a poison mushroom and the stick doesn't scale. I mean he's pikmin's size there.

Items in Smash Bros. scale to the user's current size, and that includes whether or not they've been shrunken or grown. If Richter was tiny, Lip's Stick would also be tiny. More likely, the Pikmin is big.

 

[shammah121]

You can put me on the list of Lip supporters!
I still feel there is still hope for Lip! I feel we might get at least 3 more characters!
I guess Simon could be the new retro character, but I think Lip could be the "What the heck character". Think about it, even in Japan Lip is a bit obscure to earn herself a spot in Captain Rainbow!

Oh and hello I am new around here

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Everyone, I apologise for my pessimistic behaviour earlier. Whenever I think there's a setback, my Asperger's Syndrome causes me to jump to conclusions so easily. But now, I see that the situation isn't as bleak as I originally thought so from now on, there will be no more pessimism from me until there is 110% disconfirmation.

 

[Camc10]

I still feel Lip has a good chance purely just for being another retro rep.

 

[N. Onymous]

Everyone, I apologise for my pessimistic behaviour earlier. Whenever I think there's a setback, my Asperger's Syndrome causes me to jump to conclusions so easily. But now, I see that the situation isn't as bleak as I originally thought so from now on, there will be no more pessimism from me until there is 110% disconfirmation.

As someone with autism myself, I have to say when I'm pessimistic about something, I'm right more times than I'm wrong. I choose to remain cautiously optimistic about this situation, though. There's just as much pointing for (redesigned flower when all other item effects are the same, no Assist Trophy, no Lip's Theme in "other") as against (Kirby's block, Lip's Stick, heavier focus on third-parties), and it could easily go either way. I'll be knocking on wood over here, though!

You can put me on the list of Lip supporters!
I still feel there is still hope for Lip! I feel we might get at least 3 more characters!
I guess Simon could be the new retro character, but I think Lip could be the "What the heck character". Think about it, even in Japan Lip is a bit obscure to earn herself a spot in Captain Rainbow!

Oh and hello I am new around here

Makes me happy to see some new supporters trickling in around here even with Lip's Stick. Welcome to the crew!

 

[shammah121]

To be honest, Smash really needs to represent more puzzle related characters! Honestly, the most we get is music I feel...Dr. Mario

 

[Camc10]

To be honest, Smash really needs to represent more puzzle related characters! Honestly, the most we get is music I feel...Dr. Mario

And at one point, Yoshi.

 

[N. Onymous]

To be honest, Smash really needs to represent more puzzle related characters!

Amen to that! It's such a criminally underrepresented genre of games when it comes to Smash Bros. So many choices, and they go for a Mario semiclone? Lip is just one of the many fantastic options for a puzzle character. Like, for example:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Deleted member]

You can put me on the list of Lip supporters!
I still feel there is still hope for Lip! I feel we might get at least 3 more characters!
I guess Simon could be the new retro character, but I think Lip could be the "What the heck character". Think about it, even in Japan Lip is a bit obscure to earn herself a spot in Captain Rainbow!

Oh and hello I am new around here

Well, don't be a stranger. and don't let this chaos here intimidate you. Right now, It's all a bit chaotic because of the Direct, but it's usually a pretty relaxed thread, just a tiny bit jaded from supporting a franchise that's not even overlooked by Smash, but Nintendo as a whole. Kinda comes with the job description then. But a new supporter is always nice to see.

Spoiler: You know what they say.

 

[shammah121]

Thanks! I have been stocking this thread and a few others before I made an account! I was searching for Lip support and then I found this!

Amen to that! It's such a criminally underrepresented genre of games when it comes to Smash Bros. So many choices, and they go for a Mario semiclone? Lip is just one of the many fantastic options for a puzzle character. Like, for example:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Wow, it's groovy to know that people remember Money Puzzle Exchange! Nintendo recently added it to their Eshop!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I think Lip is more likely than some people think. She's definitely in my top 2 retro reps, and I do think that kind of thing is important to Sakurai and important for smash instalments. I was too late to support Ashley; but let me lend support to this other Magical Girl!

 

[Deleted member]

Man, this place is on fire right now. You post one thing, three more messages pop up, it's kinda insane for how obscure Lip actually is... or at least said to be.

Also lemme just say that Lip and Arle would be my dream match. Though hopefully they'd use classic Arle and not the ugly Fever style.

 

[Itty Bit]

Man, Sakurai sure is dishing out a lot of fan requested characters. How many are even left?
Is Lip the most popular retro character of the bunch that's left? I know Takamaru got hit in the assist trophy zone, and save for like, Geno maybe, or Excitebike, I can't really think of any other retro characters that could come in.
If we are going under the "obligatory obscure/retro rep character" I'd see Geno being the biggest threat at this point.

 

[『SwingingStar』]

I suppose that as long as the Stick isn't a hard deconfirm, nothing's really changed.

Seeing as this Direct, and all reveals so far, had a pretty cosmopolitan bent on what they showed, I doubt if Lip were in the game, she'd be revealed here. It might be a net positive, actually, since there must be a couple of characters to be added for the sake of Japan. Lip could be one of them.

 

[N. Onymous]

That's the spirit! Too early to throw in the towel just yet, especially with what we've spied about the item and flowers.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Geno would rule out Lip as a retro character, being a third party, owned by Square-Enix. Unless you wanna count, for example, Megaman as one? And even then, we did get Duck Hunt Duo.

So if we're talking about retro reps, I don't see Geno as a threat at all.

 

[Staarih]

Even with confirmation of Lip's Stick, I wouldn't call it any sort of disconfirmation. Though it likely will take us all the way until the game's release until we'll know for sure what's going on with Lip. Sakurai said they'll try and show all fighters before release though so hopefully we'll be wiser sooner rather than later. In any case, I'll still keep rooting for Lip as the retro rep this time around!

 

[PsychoJosh]

Just chiming in to say I haven't lost my hope and neither should you. Lip's Stick being in the game is meaningless. Duplicates can exist.

Nothing is over until it's over. If they do announce Lip I'm expecting it to happen at a Japan-focused event like Tokyo Game Show.

Please feel free to correct me because I don't know the smashfandom of other regions. But were these new-character-picks pretty much highly anticipated by the western fandom (only)?

Ridley and King K. Rool are very popular in America and the UK. Since King K. Rool was created by the UK-based game studio Rareware, I think their influence might have been greater, but I'm not sure.

It is likely the same reason why Simon Belmont has his manly, rugged appearance as opposed to his shonen-style appearance. Simon's masculine appearance is appealing to the west and Richter's more shonen-style youthful appearance seems to be the one to appeal to the east.

The past few character reveals have all been focused on western popularity, but maybe Lip is being saved for a future reveal that focuses on eastern popular characters? I assume Japanese forums discuss Lip a lot more. Is this correct?

 

[N. Onymous]

Even with confirmation of Lip's Stick, I wouldn't call it any sort of disconfirmation. Though it likely will take us all the way until the game's release until we'll know for sure what's going on with Lip. Sakurai said they'll try and show all fighters before release though so hopefully we'll be wiser sooner rather than later. In any case, I'll still keep rooting for Lip as the retro rep this time around!

Really, isn't it just like Sakurai to trick us by making us think Lip's Stick means no Lip, only to actually put in Lip? Not that that's what I'm expecting--remember what I said about keeping expectations in check--but it would be absolutely perfect.

 

[11th]

As much as I was disappointed by the initial reveal, I can't stop picturing the hilarity of Lip wielding dual Sticks...

Today has been a bit of a roller coaster for me, even without the Direct. I don't have much to say at the moment, maybe later once things settle down a bit more, but for now I'll leave this:

I'm still cautious about her odds -- granted, I was never expecting playable because of the hurdles she still has to jump (not to say that I don't get caught up in the excitement when something seems plausible) -- but Assist Trophy is still very viable, and there really isn't a reason for PdP not to have a single trophy by now. We have random, non-playable third-parties with both, for Pete's sake. Someone needs to make the first move, be it Intelligent Systems or the Smash team, otherwise the series is just going to keep collecting dust.

 

[Itty Bit]

Really, isn't it just like Sakurai to trick us by making us think Lip's Stick means no Lip, only to actually put in Lip? Not that that's what I'm expecting--remember what I said about keeping expectations in check--but it would be absolutely perfect.

that's putting it perfectly.
While Lip is and probably will always be one of my top wishlist characters, I'm not expecting it, and I'm not gonna let her lack of an inclusion affect my enjoyment of this game. Sakurai and his team worked so hard, and it would be a shame to hate on the game simply because an obscure character wasn't included.

I guess my other biggest concern is just the whole... stage thing. I don't know if this is really even worth thinking about, but didn't he reveal all 103 stages today? If that's the case, it kind of feels like there wont be any new franchises coming in, since there's no stages to add to that.
But all that being said, that monster hunter looking stage wasn't in the lineup at all, and I highly doubt we are just getting a boss to fight and nothing else...

 

[N. Onymous]

I guess my other biggest concern is just the whole... stage thing. I don't know if this is really even worth thinking about, but didn't he reveal all 103 stages today? If that's the case, it kind of feels like there wont be any new franchises coming in, since there's no stages to add to that.
But all that being said, that monster hunter looking stage wasn't in the lineup at all, and I highly doubt we are just getting a boss to fight and nothing else...

Yeah, I'd wager that there are still more stages, original and otherwise, to come. They just haven't shown the ones they don't want us to know about yet. Remember the pixelated option in the main menu?

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Alright guys. I finally got my most wanted character since Melee.
I'm crying ... King K. Rool, oh my god !

I can not ask Sakurai for anything ever again, but ... My main focus, now that K. Rool finally made it will go to Lippy! Which is my second most wanted character! I did not notice Richter's pics, I thought I checked them all out, but I guess I forgot his, but I do not think the Lip's Stick will deconfirm Lip, just like Villager's Up-B does not deconfirm Balloon Fighter.

I really hope more Panel De Pon content comes through. Also, I agree with ChronoBound. If Lip ever joins, this is her time!

 

[N. Onymous]

It's not over till the fat lady sings. Even with Lip's Stick, the fact that the flower effect has been modified when no other item effect has seems to me to be pointing at Panel de Pon getting more significant representation this Smash. Whether that's as an Assist or a playable fighter, who can say? Regardless, I'm interested to see where this journey might take us--Ultimate is nothing if not a game to defy all expectations, and having Lip in despite her item would be a dream come true.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

It's not over till the fat lady sings. Even with Lip's Stick, the fact that the flower effect has been modified when no other item effect has seems to me to be pointing at Panel de Pon getting more significant representation this Smash. Whether that's as an Assist or a playable fighter, who can say? Regardless, I'm interested to see where this journey might take us--Ultimate is nothing if not a game to defy all expectations, and having Lip in despite her item would be a dream come true.

"Our team's prioritize making all the veterans return. We hope you did not expect too many new fighters" - Sakurai at E3.

*Throws 5 new characters into one direct* - Sakurai two months later.

 

[smashkirby]

that's putting it perfectly.
While Lip is and probably will always be one of my top wishlist characters, I'm not expecting it, and I'm not gonna let her lack of an inclusion affect my enjoyment of this game. Sakurai and his team worked so hard, and it would be a shame to hate on the game simply because an obscure character wasn't included.

I guess my other biggest concern is just the whole... stage thing. I don't know if this is really even worth thinking about, but didn't he reveal all 103 stages today? If that's the case, it kind of feels like there wont be any new franchises coming in, since there's no stages to add to that.
But all that being said, that monster hunter looking stage wasn't in the lineup at all, and I highly doubt we are just getting a boss to fight and nothing else...

Yeah, I'd wager that there are still more stages, original and otherwise, to come. They just haven't shown the ones they don't want us to know about yet. Remember the pixelated option in the main menu?

Hey, remember when I said that Lip's Theme not being shown in the Direct wouldn't be an issue? Well, the Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt have their songs listed in the 'Other' section as well.

Also, we've got to be getting more stages. Mute City from Smash 4 is named Mute City 3DS. Why the clarity?

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Hey, remember when I said that Lip's Theme not being shown in the Direct wouldn't be an issue? Well, the Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt have their songs listed in the 'Other' section as well.

Also, we've got to be getting more stages. Mute City from Smash 4 is named Mute City 3DS. Why the clarity?

The same goes for R.O.B's Stack Up/Gyromite theme as well.

Also, Mute City 3DS is actually now called Mute City SNES but your point still stands.

 

[『SwingingStar』]

The stage select is ordered by source game release date, and the lowest entry is from '89. Lip's theme, if it were there, would be 6 years later than that. So it means nothing, really.

 

[BluePikmin11]

One thing to point out that might be noteworthy. Mach Rider's theme is in the other's Music section. I think it implies Mach Rider's de-confirmation. So that is one potential retro eliminated at least.

 

[『SwingingStar』]

One thing to point out that might be noteworthy. Mach Rider's theme is in the other's Music section. I think it implies Mach Rider's de-confirmation. So that is one potential retro eliminated at least.

As smashkirby said:

Hey, remember when I said that Lip's Theme not being shown in the Direct wouldn't be an issue? Well, the Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt have their songs listed in the 'Other' section as well.

Also, we've got to be getting more stages. Mute City from Smash 4 is named Mute City 3DS. Why the clarity?

Characters that lack a franchise get put on the Others section. Mach Rider just has Mach Rider, so he'd be there either way.

Lip would get a franchise spot, though, since Panel de Pon / Puzzle League has a handful of individual releases.

 

[N. Onymous]

Characters that lack a franchise get put on the Others section. Mach Rider just has Mach Rider, so he'd be there either way.

Lip would get a franchise spot, though, since Panel de Pon / Puzzle League has a handful of individual releases.

Panel de Pon songs could still end up under "Others" if only the SNES/SFC game is represented, which I could definitely see happening.

 

[『SwingingStar』]

Panel de Pon songs could still end up under "Others" if only the SNES/SFC game is represented, which I could definitely see happening.

It's kinda iffy, considering Cloud gets his music under FF VII, not Final Fantasy, even though it's two songs total.