The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[N. Onymous]

It's sad to me that Arle Nadja gets to be the face of Puyo Pop and Lip can't be the face of her own game. It's even worse that Arle Nadja is will probably get into Smash before Nintendo's own puzzle game girl.

It's misogyny, is what it is. It's a strong word, but it's exactly what this is. Panel de Pon is a game with a largely female cast that was stripped out and removed and replaced with an almost entirely male cast for the sake of marketing. Misogyny. Textbook. Not debatable.

If Panepon was even slightly better known, there would be no end of justifiable outrage about the horrific treatment the series and its wonderful, memorable characters have gotten throughout the years. Unfortunately, it's not. Lip is more obscure and less supported than even Takamaru, a game most non-diehards don't even know about, and Intelligent Systems is clearly more interested in pumping out Fire Emblem after Fire Emblem at the expense of their older, classic franchises, so this is just the status quo for the foreseeable future. I'd love for Rouff to be proven wrong and for there to be hope for us--for Lip to at least get an Assist Trophy--but more and more it's looking like Smash 5 will once again go out of its way to pander to western Nintendo fans at the expense of its home country. We'll get one item, one song, and one trophy, and we'll have to accept that we'll never have anything more. Why have hope when there is none?

I'm starting to think I should just call it quits on the whole fan thing. Let Panel de Pon stay in the past, and stop trying to bring it back.

 

[PsychoJosh]

You're free to do what you like.

I will keep holding out hope because that is just what you do when things look bad. I'm never going to stop being a fan of Lip or Panel de Pon, and I will not hesitate support official releases if and when they do come. Heck, if my games become popular, I might be able to ask Nintendo themselves if I could do something using the property with their blessing. It's how we got Sonic Mania and the new Battletoads. It's not impossible.

All in all, though, it's like I said earlier. PDP and Lip will only truly die once you let go of the love you have for them.

It's misogyny, is what it is. It's a strong word, but it's exactly what this is. Panel de Pon is a game with a largely female cast that was stripped out and removed and replaced with an almost entirely male cast for the sake of marketing. Misogyny. Textbook. Not debatable.

lol

Sorry, that's way off the rails.

 

[N. Onymous]

Sorry, that's way off the rails.

How so? Even if it's not active misogyny, it's pandering to the "ew girls ew cooties ewww" mentality that's responsible for breeding a lot of future sexists. Not a lot of difference.

I understand why it was done, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[Carrill]

The 1990s were a time when the majority of people thought that games were for boys and that boys didn't like to see girls in their games. Had Panel de Pon first been released in the 2010s or maybe even in the 2000s, the predominantly female cast likely would not have been replaced for Yoshis in the West.

 

[PsychoJosh]

How so? Even if it's not active misogyny, it's pandering to the "ew girls ew cooties ewww" mentality that's responsible for breeding a lot of future sexists. Not a lot of difference.

It was just a localization decision. Nothing else. Nintendo's marketing team thought the game would sell more in the west by tying it to existing IP that were already popular in the west, rather than going for the much harder tactic of selling a game with entirely new characters that don't cater to western demographics. Games with cute girls have always done better in Japan than in the west until recently.

If it were released today, it'd be an entirely different story because now there is an observed demand in the west for games with cutesy/girly characters. It's hardly a result of the "M" word, and you shouldn't throw it around so carelessly. Don't be like those people who claim air conditioning or gravity are misogynist constructs. This has nothing to do with that.

 

[N. Onymous]

If it were released today, it'd be an entirely different story because now there is an observed demand in the west for games with cutesy/girly characters. It's hardly a result of the "M" word, and you shouldn't throw it around so carelessly. Don't be like those people who claim air conditioning or gravity are misogynist constructs. This has nothing to do with that.

Then why doesn't Nintendo capitalize on that by making a new game in the Panel de Pon universe? These characters seriously have to potential to print so much money for them these days. Are they actually that blind?

 

[PsychoJosh]

Then why doesn't Nintendo capitalize on that by making a new game in the Panel de Pon universe?

How should I know their exact reasons?

All I do know is that Panel de Pon is far from the only Nintendo franchise that has gone dark, let alone gaming franchises owned by other companies. I'm a huge fan of Battletoads, a game series that hasn't seen a new entry since 1994(!!!), and it only got a new entry announced yesterday, 24 years after its last game. It happens to all franchises great and small. How long do you think F-Zero fans have been waiting for a new major game? Earthworm Jim fans? Half-Life fans? Half-Life was a huge franchise and it just was left to rot.

The point I'm trying to make is, Panel de Pon is just one of many gaming universes that we haven't seen hide nor hair of in a while, and we don't know what the future holds for them. But it's not productive or worthwhile to be overly cynical about it. One way or another, their time will come again. Maybe the old crew at Nintendo will see fit to revive it themselves. Or some plucky fans get jobs at Nintendo, or game devs like myself simply ask Nintendo if they can make a new entry in the series. As long as at least one person holds passion and love for the series, there is a hope that it can be brought back.

Lip may be gone, for now, but she is not forgotten. She is with the rest of the gaming franchises lost to time, in a holding cell until their time to shine comes again. And if there is always somebody who loves the series, it can and will come back.

 

[N. Onymous]

I admire your optimism. Time will tell whether Lip will come back, but for now at least those few of us who have stuck with it have our fan works to content us. Also, that Lip model, which I believe is almost done!

 

[N. Onymous]

One hour left. Time to lend Lip one last burst of our strength. Pray for her!

 

[smashkirby]

One hour left. Time to lend Lip one last burst of our strength. Pray for her!

And we shouldn't forget that if we don't see Lip now, there's always the full game+DLC. Personally, I see her as a hidden character, if anything.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Yes. If she doesn't show up today dont lose hope.

 

[N. Onymous]

Right. The fat lady hasn't sung until we know the entire roster.

Just under 30 minutes left. I'm preparing myself for disappointment, but I'll never give up hope, and neither should you.

 

[N. Onymous]

The direct is over. Lip was not revealed. Ridley, and quite literally everyone else, was. I'm evening out to "hyped."

Did everyone notice that Kirby has a new Stone transformation? It's a stone chest from Breath of the Wild. That wouldn't be replacing anything, now would it? Hmmm... I wonder. : )c

 

[Motor Bug2005]

The direct is over. Lip was not revealed. Ridley, and quite literally everyone else, was. I'm evening out to "hyped."

Did everyone notice that Kirby has a new Stone transformation? It's a stone chest from Breath of the Wild. That wouldn't be replacing anything, now would it? Hmmm... I wonder. : )c

I wonder indeed. Someone's gonna have to keep an eye on the E3 invitational to see if Kirby still has the Garbage Block as one of his Stone transformations.

 

[ChronoBound]

Both Takamaru and Sukapon were de-confirmed as Assist Trophy, making Lip the only one of the Japan-only retro trinity left. At least fans of Lip will still be able to continue dreaming. For a while now.

As for myself, I am extraordinarily happy that:
1. Ridley has finally been confirmed (after 19 years of dreaming no less)
2. EVERY SINGLE VETERAN EVER IS COMING BACK

Ultimate is the right name.

 

[N. Onymous]

(click for tweet)

In all seriousness, though, remember that even if Kirby still has the garbage block, that's not a deconfirmation. Neither is Lip's Stick. Lip is not deconfirmed until we know for a fact she is either an Assist Trophy, or simply not on the full roster.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

In all seriousness, though, remember that even if Kirby still has the garbage block, that's not a deconfirmation. Neither is Lip's Stick. Lip is not deconfirmed until we know for a fact she is either an Assist Trophy, or simply not on the full roster.

But you have to admit that Kirby losing the Garbage Block could be a plus just like Palutena being absent from Pit's FS in SSB4 while being a part of it in Brawl.

 

[N. Onymous]

At the same time, it's not the be-all, end-all deciding factor. Kirby having a Thwomp transformation isn't keeping Mario from showing up, and the BotW shrine chest is not keeping Breath of the Wild Link from being in the game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well, time to see if Kirby still has the Garbage Block transformation in the Invitational... so far haven't seen Lip's Stick as an item itself, for some reason...

 

[N. Onymous]

Well, so much for that. Time will tell if Lip is in the game, but there's one easy out scratched off.

And that's all for the invitational. Kirby's garbage block is confirmed to return, as you just saw, but no sign of Lip's Stick anywhere at the moment (in an items-on tournament at that). Curious.

Well, so far, so good. I'm not expecting Lip any more than I was, but it's nice to have hope, even if it isn't a lot.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

And that's all for the invitational. Kirby's garbage block is confirmed to return, as you just saw, but no sign of Lip's Stick anywhere at the moment (in an items-on tournament at that). Curious.

Was Lip's Stick discovered in SSB4 before or after the game was released?

edit: To answer my own question, it was revealed in a press kit of images that were released after the Smash Direct that happened about 5-6 months before it was released (the same Direct that revealed Greninja IIRC). Not only that but the new SBBU website is updating daily with info about the game including about items so it could be revealed there but until then, I'll hold on to just that little bit of hope I still have left.

 

[N. Onymous]

Well this thread's been quiet. I hope our pessimism isn't scaring everybody off.

I've been thinking... Besides Lip, what other options are there for retro characters? Takamaru is still an assist, and Sukapon is joining him this time. Besides generic players from Nintendo's sports games, there doesn't really seem to be anyone else.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Well this thread's been quiet. I hope our pessimism isn't scaring everybody off.

I've been thinking... Besides Lip, what other options are there for retro characters? Takamaru is still an assist, and Sukapon is joining him this time. Besides generic players from Nintendo's sports games, there doesn't really seem to be anyone else.

I've seen a few people on GameFAQS suggesting Excitebike but I have no idea how that'll work. On another note, SSBU was on the Nintendo Treehouse earlier today and according to PlasmaCannon on GameFAQS (another Lip supporter), there was still no sign of the Lip's Stick although it has been confirmed that the "Flower" mechanic has returned due to an image on Olimar's character page on the new Smash website showing Luigi with one on his head.

 

[N. Onymous]

I know the picture you're thinking of. It's always possible the flower in that picture comes from an attack that causes it (e.g. Rest), or a new item we don't know about just yet.

It's weird to me how long we've gone without seeing Lip's Stick. It was a very common item in Melee through SSB4. Surely, if it was coming back, they could have just copy and pasted the data from previous games into Ultimate, right? Hmm...

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well this thread's been quiet. I hope our pessimism isn't scaring everybody off.

I've been thinking... Besides Lip, what other options are there for retro characters? Takamaru is still an assist, and Sukapon is joining him this time. Besides generic players from Nintendo's sports games, there doesn't really seem to be anyone else.

Mach Rider, Excitebiker, Balloon Fighter (unless you take Villager’s Up B as a disconfirmation), Prince Sable, Ayumi, and I guess Bubbles, Tamagon, Goku and Donbe & Hikari.

Lip’s looking like she has the best shot out of those.

Edit: forgot about Mike Jones

 

[SchAlternate]

The fact that Sukapon of all characters got to make any appearance at all in Smash before Lip is kind of ridiculous.

So far, not much has changed in terms of her chances, except that her "main competition" (Takamaru and Sukapon(?)) is out of the way. This makes her having a playable spot as this game's obscure retro character being at least marginally more likely, though she's just as likely to become another Assist Trophy, and maybe even more likely to not appear whatsoever (or just as a trophy, that'd be something at least).

Ah well. Having every freaking veteran return, alongside RIDLEY of all characters, has already left me satisfied me with the roster as is. There are a couple of additions that could make it even better (Lip being one of them), but at this point, with Ridley finally being where he should've been four years ago (and being revealed so early), I wouldn't mind whoever gets in next.

 

[N. Onymous]

I agree. We've got every veteran across the entire series, Inklings, and RIdley already. Lip would just be yet another selling point. Still, she's topping my most-wanted characters list for some time yet, so my support will continue. No rest for the avid!

 

[PsychoJosh]

The thing is, I haven't observed as much passion and creativity in the fanbases for Sukapon and Takamaru as I have seen in the PDP fandom. PDP fans are always creating fanart, animations, pixel art, and even 3D models like the one we're working on.

Maybe, just maybe, they'd recognize this and give us a reward for all our devotion...

 

[LipFlare]

Hello everyone!

I have to ask, because I didn't noticed a Lip's Stick or a certain Kirby-stone transformation in the direct -which for me is a good thing.

Did one of these appeard in any of the invitationalmatches? I avoid to watch extended gameplay before the game is close to release/demo because... Reasons.

Only thing which pierced my heart, was the announcement, that the expectation of newcommers should not be set to high, which is a big part of joy from completely new Smash entrys.

Ultimate? More like Ultimate: Vet-DLC-Character Update, Meta-shuffle Patch, Eye lifting, Echoing of reasonable character reskins and Ridley (these memes). The Final Smash updates and the new knockback system looks quite exciting I must admit. I just longed for information of a new game mode...

I just hope that self fulfilling prophecy of : "Ridley; to complicated to implemment! ... Just look who just hits the bigtime?!" ,manifests in Ultimate via Instant Kharma in form of more characterannouncements, pre or post time of the gamerelease.

Best regards and a good time

LipFlare

 

[N. Onymous]

Kirby's stone transformation is confirmed to return. There's a screenshot further up. Lip's Stick is still nowhere to be seen, which I hope is good news...

Even if we're not getting a lot of newcomers, we're still getting some newcomers. Lip's still got a chance to appear, whether that's as an Assist Trophy or an actual fighter. Don't throw in the towel just yet!

 

[MysticKnives]

With this being Ultimate, Lip finally making it in would be magical.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

While we're waiting for the last Nintendo Treehouse session to start so we can resume looking for the elusive Lip's Stick, I have a question:

If Lip does make it in and she has an English voice like Marth has now, who would you like to voice her?

Personally, I'd like her to be voiced by Hynden Walch in her Yutaka Kobayakawa voice. It would so fitting IMO.

 

[SchAlternate]

I dunno a whole lot of voice actors, so I'm not really concerned as to who voices the characters, so long as they sound good. I actually like Marth's English voice, since it's pretty similar in tone to his original voice.

(The option to change language for individual characters would be cool, though)

 

[N. Onymous]

I really doubt Lip would be dubbed, for the same reasons Marth and possibly Roy weren't dubbed until Ultimate. Hynden Walch would be nice though.

 

[Takasmash]

If I can have Takamaru playable then I want Lip for smash ultimate we didn't seen Lips Item and theres no way that Sakurai will skip on a retro character nope I know Sakurai wont do that. And plus I love puzzle games. And we need more females reps.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I've just seen someone on GameFAQS say that items are being shown on the Nintendo Treehouse right now. This could be where the Lip's Stick is shown or not.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Lip in English? No, I don't think Walch suits her. How about Stephanie Beard?

 

[Curious Villager]

They only focused on new items and Assist Items unfortunately (or fortunately?)

 

[Motor Bug2005]

They only focused on new items and Assist Items unfortunately (or fortunately?)

I get the feeling that if Lip's Stick is in the game, it will end up being revealed on the official site.

 

[Curious Villager]

I get the feeling that if Lip's Stick is in the game, it will end up being revealed on the official site.

Probably yeah, there are apparently 50+ new Assist trophies yet only about half of that number has been shown so far. So some things where most likely taken out of the demo. Guess we'll see in the coming month's what will happen...