The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[N. Onymous]

All of these statistics about Panel de Pon's fanbase are fascinating I didn't know that tidbit about FTFTBT, actually, and I especially didn't know that semi-famous YouTubers voted for Lip too. It gives me a little bit more hope that maybe we'll see her this time.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Based on a current tentative schedule, Lip will be open for a rerate on June 29th in the RTC. If this changes going forward I will mention it, but just letting you guys know when to show your support.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Some Japanese Twitter users wanting Lip for Smash:

ねえねえ〜〜！！スマブラなんでリップいないのかなーーーー？？？？？？？神ゲーだよ？？？？？？？1枠くらい空いてるよね？？？！
あ！！！アプデ！？アプデなの！？？？みんな署名運動しよ！！！！！
ちなみに私は初代推しのルビー推し。フレアはコスしたい。以上。 pic.twitter.com/SAG0jwp1Mi

— リャン@パパになった👨‍🍼 (@yuades) June 13, 2018

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[MysticKnives]

Some Japanese Twitter users wanting Lip for Smash:

ねえねえ〜〜！！スマブラなんでリップいないのかなーーーー？？？？？？？神ゲーだよ？？？？？？？1枠くらい空いてるよね？？？！
あ！！！アプデ！？アプデなの！？？？みんな署名運動しよ！！！！！
ちなみに私は初代推しのルビー推し。フレアはコスしたい。以上。 pic.twitter.com/SAG0jwp1Mi

— リャン@パパになった👨‍🍼 (@yuades) June 13, 2018

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Beautiful. The more the merrier.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Upon researching Lip's fanbase everywhere during the Smash ballot period, out of all retros I have seen voted in the West, Lip is the only retro who I have seen have a truly dedicated, hardcore following that parallels the likes of the dedicated Daisy fanbase during the period of the ballot. Even Takamaru and Prince of Sable never got as much discussion and fan-dedication as Lip. The following just might be big enough to trump the likes of Sable, Excitebiker, and Mach Rider.

As someone who paid attention to the fanbases of many retro characters in that time, I am very sure of this.

 

[PsychoJosh]

The question is... does it count for anything? Does Nintendo recognize it that way?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I would like to think so. I know most casual Smash fans have put their single IP vote for third-parties and big profile Nintendo characters like Geno, Waluigi, and Skull Kid. But Sakurai will probably look into which classic franchise newcomer got the most votes just like SSB4 and Brawl. Popularity will be a key factor, considering Pit and Little Mac likely got chosen due to notable Western popularity. Even if it takes Sakurai to dig into lower rankings, he will find out who was the most popular.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I really hope that would happen.
Sakurai even stated how much he loved playing Panel De Pon, even going as far as calling it a masterpiece.
And, if he does look at the notable request, and want something different than over requested characters, 3rd parties, and commercial content, I think Lip is a great contender for that "fresh air", and remember that we got the Duck Hunt Dog for Smash 4. That could help us on the more "rare" inclusions.

 

[Slyshock]

One advantage Lip has over other Japan-only characters is that her series has still come to the West, only lacking its leading lady. We even have a Western-exclusive Panel de Pon game in Pokémon Puzzle League, while the only Japan-exclusive is one third of Nintendo Puzzle Collection. It's a long shot, but it's possible Sakurai may consider the West's familiarity with Panel de Pon's core mechanics enough to call a character based around them "international".

 

[N. Onymous]

Man, Lip's got quite a few supporters on both sides of the Pacific, doesn't she? I'm glad to see even Japanese fans are hoping that this is her chance. Maybe Sora/Nintendo/HAL/Intelligent Systems/someone will realize that and decide to give her a chance.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Made some renders for Panel de Pon's official artwork of Lip:

I will be mainly using these for my analysis and for my prediction roster. Feel free to use these images as well.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I'm curious now, BluePikmin11 , in your research, have Lippy won you over with her charming appeal?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Lip had won me over with her charming appeal a long time ago, back in Smash 4 speculation when I played the online rom of Panel de Pon and loved the gameplay. I initially thought that Lip had no chance with Takamaru as the forefront retro choice, but now look at the situation for Lip. She has the biggest chance to be in Smash Ultimate IMO.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Agreed. I feel people have been sleeping on her chances.

As I've stated earlier, I'm not a fan of small girls, nor fairies, but Lip is something quite different. I really want her, because she represent such a great game, and series. I think as design, and concept, she fits the series, and would be very fun. All this talk about Panel De Pon, and Lip is really giving me great hype. I got to go back playing the game.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I've been posting updates on the Smash Underdogs discord, but there really isn't much to show. Lippy has eyelids now, and her mouth interior is complete, so all that's left is to texture her clothes.

We're also going to be making the eyelashes longer. Tuncer and I are both sorry about the delays, stuff keeps coming up. I try my best to keep up to date on this.

No! I can't believe what I see!
Everyone's down there Smashing and bashing without me!
It's inelegant, that much is evident!
Just because I'm retro doesn't mean that I'm irrelevant!

You gotta put me in!
(No can do!)
They know me in the west!
(I only pick the best.)

Sakurai, put me into your game
Without Lip, Smash is really lame
Sakurai, put me into your game
You ain't complete without this flower dame!
Sakurai, put me into your game,
Without Lip, Smash is really lame
Sakurai, put me into your game!

Please!
Don't be such a tease!
I need a big break, or Panel de Pon's in a big deep freeze!
Oh man!
Surely you agree!
I mean, come on, you even put in Daisy!

You gotta let me Smash!
(I'm not sure...)
It's a catastrophe!
(Maybe as an assist trophy...)

Sakurai, put me into your game
Without Lip, Smash is really lame
Sakurai, put me into your game
You ain't complete without this flower dame!
Sakurai, put me into your game,
Without Lip, Smash is really lame
Sakurai, put me into your game!

 

[MysticKnives]

Upon researching Lip's fanbase everywhere during the Smash ballot period, out of all retros I have seen voted in the West, Lip is the only retro who I have seen have a truly dedicated, hardcore following that parallels the likes of the dedicated Daisy fanbase during the period of the ballot. Even Takamaru and Prince of Sable never got as much discussion and fan-dedication as Lip. The following just might be big enough to trump the likes of Sable, Excitebiker, and Mach Rider.

As someone who paid attention to the fanbases of many retro characters in that time, I am very sure of this.

It's possible. After all there's the base roster, but there's also DLC as well. Either one I'd be fine with if it meant having her playable.

 

[Curious Villager]

This might be a huge stretch but considering how Sakurai has usually focused more or less solely on Fire Emblem throughout the Smash series when it came to IS's characters and due to the backlash of FE's oversaturation of characters last time. What if Sakurai decided to look for a different character from IS's portfolio this time around for Smash Ultimate?

At least, the lack of Lip's Stick as an item so far is a good sign..

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Hello Sakurai I'd like to request an additional Flower Princess in Smash okay?
With Daisy being in and Takamaru being out, Lip just shot up my want list and I can't wait to spend time in another dedicated and optimistic community for a stage controlling Flower girl!

 

[MysticKnives]

This might be a huge stretch but considering how Sakurai has usually focused more or less solely on Fire Emblem throughout the Smash series when it came to IS's characters and due to the backlash of FE's oversaturation of characters last time. What if Sakurai decided to look for a different character from IS's portfolio this time around for Smash Ultimate?

At least, the lack of Lip's Stick as an item so far is a good sign..

I don't even think the wand being in or out means too much, but I think it's an item regardless going off those pictures with Luigi and Mario with Olimar.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't even think the wand being in or out means too much, but I think it's an item regardless going off those pictures with Luigi and Mario with Olimar.

I mean, there are other ways of inflicting the flower effect on characters such as Jigglypuff's rest and certain Pokemon, but I suppose the stick may be the most likely cause of the effect in those picture (Unless Debug shenanigans where going on) but still.


Anyway, just made a custom Smash Ultimate HUD icon for Lip. I initially couldn't decide between adding her ponytail or not within the icon as it took a bit of space but I decided to add it anyway as I felt she looked better this way. Hope you guys like it.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I mean, there are other ways of inflicting the flower effect on characters such as Jigglypuff's rest and certain Pokemon, but I suppose the stick may be the most likely cause of the effect in those picture (Unless Debug shenanigans where going on) but still.


Anyway, just made a custom Smash Ultimate HUD icon for Lip. I initially couldn't decide between adding her ponytail or not within the icon as it took a bit of space but I decided to add it anyway as I felt she looked better this way. Hope you guys like it.

It looks beautiful. I love it.

 

[MoveMan1]

I was going to say that the Rambling Mushroom being in improved Lip's chances, because a mushroom would make a good replacement for the standard poison indicator. But then someone pointed out the pictures of Mario and Luigi with flowers on their heads...

Still, if there's a pic of someone with a mushroom on their head, I'd take it as a good sign for Lip.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I was going to say that the Rambling Mushroom being in improved Lip's chances, because a mushroom would make a good replacement for the standard poison indicator. But then someone pointed out the pictures of Mario and Luigi with flowers on their heads...

Still, if there's a pic of someone with a mushroom on their head, I'd take it as a good sign for Lip.

I think the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom is a new Assist Trophy but we won't know the finer details until they give them to us. IMO, I can see it using it's spores to sprout flowers on everyone except the summoner.

 

[N. Onymous]

Curious Villager does make a good point that those flowers could have come from Rest, or Togepi's Leech Seed. They could even have come from a new item we don't know about yet (here's hoping!).

The Ramblin' Evil Mushroom could go either way. As a "character", it would make sense as an Assist Trophy, but the Bomber enemy from Kirby is also a "character" and it's just an ordinary explosive item. That we've seen the Mushroom in one of Snake's images without any prior focus supports this theory--that's how the Bomber was revealed. (Of course, the new Knuckles assist trophy got this treatment too.)

Flowering people isn't QUITE how the mushroom worked in EarthBound, where it's more like confusion than poison, but it's decently close and has a similar effect of planting something on a fighter's head. I'd like to believe it's a replacement for Lip's Stick while they promote Lip herself into a playable character, but I was wrong about Kirby's garbage block being replaced, so I'm keeping my expectations low.

 

[Slyshock]

Personally I'd rather Lip's Stick remain as an item, it's always been one of my favorites. Much like how Samus and the Screw Attack item can coexist, I don't see Lip's Stick as a threat to Lip's chances. Lip's use of it as her primary weapon would almost certainly be uniquely implemented; As an item it's a strong tool which only allows for generic strikes, while as a weapon it'd be weaker yet more versatile in the ways it allows you to attack.

If anything, I'd be more afraid if Lip's Stick was removed; Panel de Pon would lose its item-based representation, and I fear the odds of the series being removed entirely may be greater than the odds of Lip becoming playable.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have a question, did Pit gain a large support following after the foreshadowing of his trophy description in Melee?

 

[Curious Villager]

I have a question, did Pit gain a large support following after the foreshadowing of his trophy description in Melee?

I think he had support yes. At least from what I recall, he was included due to popular demand.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have a question, did Pit gain a large support following after the foreshadowing of his trophy description in Melee?

He did but he didn't have a lot of time to build up hype before BAM! Total redesign! Fact, a lot of the characters in retro trophies had hype in the Brawl era. Mad times.

I even found a webcomic about it. VG cats to be precise

Remember when updates were a thing?

 

[BluePikmin11]

When I witnessed the de-confirmation of Takamaru as an Assist Trophy and Balloon Fighter being a part of Villager’s recovery special again through E3 footage of Smash Ultimate, I was utterly astonished. I thought those two had the best chance to get in as the retro newcomer pick. It took me awhile to process the news, and I had wondered about which retro newcomer Sakurai had picked if Takamaru was not the one planned for the 2016 project plan. I looked into the remaining retro choices like Excitebiker, Mach Rider, and Prince Sable, quickly dismissing the latter two, only seeing the first choice as the only plausible character. But then, I witnessed a new, but obviously fake Smash leak featuring Lip that happened in the Smash Ultimate Discussion thread. I suddenly started to create connections to Lip and other factors Sakurai stated to be important when he included retros like Pit/Little Mac. I have an unusual amount of confidence for Lip and I want to explain why I have a moderate degree of faith that she will be in Smash Ultimate.

Since Super Smash Bros. Brawl, popularity has been a big factor towards the inclusion of retro newcomers. Pit being in Brawl was the result of being the most requested retro newcomer in America and Japan, noting the foreshadowing in Pit’s trophy description in Melee. This hint led to many fan theories, which caused the support for Pit erupt in a huge scale. Little Mac’s addition in Smash 4 was the result of him being the most popular retro in the West, with Punch Out Wii’s release and the VGTribune poll that was sent to Sakurai at the time of project proposal helping Mac’s inclusion. I think it is safe to say that popularity in the West and Japan will contribute to a retro newcomer’s addition for this Smash. With the Smash Ballot allowing a large number of fans to vote, who could have been the most popular retro request? With the more casual Smash fans likely campaigning for third-parties/Nintendo newcomers like Bayonetta, Geno, Ridley, Waluigi, and K. Rool, it is hard to find anything concrete that would suggest a specific retro being very popular in the West and Japan. Fortunately, I can find out which retro newcomer was extremely popular during the ballot voting period through a process of elimination.

Researching a number of websites like Smashboards, Gamefaqs, and Twitter, I did not find much notable campaigning for Excitebiker, Mach Rider, Prince of Sable, and Takamaru. However, there was one single retro who I have seen consistently campaigned in both the West and Japan. That being Lip. Upon looking into Lip's support during the Smash ballot period, Lip was the only retro I have seen with a truly dedicated following that parallels the likes of the dedicated Daisy fan-base in many ways. As someone who pays attention to retro newcomer support fanbases closely, I know for sure that not even Takamaru and Prince Sable had much discussion and fan-dedication as Lip. I have seen supporters of Lip from the West/East that have passionately made fan art, several videos, and MANY moveset ideas for the flower fairy, with a numerous amount of hardcore PDP fans campaigning a revival of Panel de Pon and Lip being playable in Smash Bros. This following might have been big enough to vote in a grander scale than Takamaru, possibly making Lip the most voted retro in the West and Japan. Lip is the only fanbase I know that would be capable of accomplishing a notable feat in votes.

Now assuming that Lip was the most popular retro, would her being from a Japan-only game stop Sakurai from including the character? Personally, I do not think Panel de Pon’s obscurity would be a huge problem. Sakurai loves his retro characters, especially with Japan-only games. He has shown his love of these titles with Assist Trophies like Takamaru and Sable, trophies like Ayumi Tachibana and Diskun, remixes of Lip’s theme and Mysterious Murasame Castle, and, at one point, was willing enough to make characters from a Japan only franchise playable in the form of Marth and Roy. Hypothetically, If Sakurai saw the huge ballot popularity for Lip, I believe he would immediately jump at the chance. Even if her game was Japan-only, I feel that worldwide demand would be able to make up for her obscurity. Sakurai personally considered Panel de Pon to be a masterpiece, and this alone makes me certain that he loves the the franchise. I would not be very surprised if this quickly enticed him to make Lip a playable character. Lip’s gameplay potential and character individuality would also be a factor Sakurai would be attracted by, with her being a magical flower fairy who would be able to utilize Panel de Pon puzzle gameplay mechanics and the flower effects of Lip’s Stick for a very unique moveset. With these positives going for Lip, I feel that she will be the next retro choice chosen by Sakurai.

Of course, there is the real possibility that Lip’s ballot popularity could have been less than Prince of Sable or Excitebiker. But, I personally doubt it at this point. With two of the biggest retro choices out of the running (Takamaru and Balloon Fighter), the only retro newcomer I feel pretty confident of being the most popular is Lip. Here is hoping my assessment is correct. Lip’s inclusion would do wonders and would help Intelligent Systems finally make a new Panel de Pon game, which would be a blessing for me.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

That's an amazing analyse! And it makes me proud, and happy to be a Lip supporter. I think you should post it in the General Smash Bros Ultimate thread, if you haven't already, or your analyse page. Maybe people will open their eyes for our girl.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sure. It will be very interesting to see the responses and opinions.

 

[GoodGrief741]

When I witnessed the de-confirmation of Takamaru as an Assist Trophy and Balloon Fighter being a part of Villager’s recovery special again through E3 footage of Smash Ultimate, I was utterly astonished. I thought those two had the best chance to get in as the retro newcomer pick. It took me awhile to process the news, and I had wondered about which retro newcomer Sakurai had picked if Takamaru was not the one planned for the 2016 project plan. I looked into the remaining retro choices like Excitebiker, Mach Rider, and Prince Sable, quickly dismissing the latter two, only seeing the first choice as the only plausible character. But then, I witnessed a new, but obviously fake Smash leak featuring Lip that happened in the Smash Ultimate Discussion thread. I suddenly started to create connections to Lip and other factors Sakurai stated to be important when he included retros like Pit/Little Mac. I have an unusual amount of confidence for Lip and I want to explain why I have a moderate degree of faith that she will be in Smash Ultimate.

Since Super Smash Bros. Brawl, popularity has been a big factor towards the inclusion of retro newcomers. Pit being in Brawl was the result of being the most requested retro newcomer in America and Japan, noting the foreshadowing in Pit’s trophy description in Melee. This hint led to many fan theories, which caused the support for Pit erupt in a huge scale. Little Mac’s addition in Smash 4 was the result of him being the most popular retro in the West, with Punch Out Wii’s release and the VGTribune poll that was sent to Sakurai at the time of project proposal helping Mac’s inclusion. I think it is safe to say that popularity in the West and Japan will contribute to a retro newcomer’s addition for this Smash. With the Smash Ballot allowing a large number of fans to vote, who could have been the most popular retro request? With the more casual Smash fans likely campaigning for third-parties/Nintendo newcomers like Bayonetta, Geno, Ridley, Waluigi, and K. Rool, it is hard to find anything concrete that would suggest a specific retro being very popular in the West and Japan. Fortunately, I can find out which retro newcomer was extremely popular during the ballot voting period through a process of elimination.

Researching a number of websites like Smashboards, Gamefaqs, and Twitter, I did not find much notable campaigning for Excitebiker, Mach Rider, Prince of Sable, and Takamaru. However, there was one single retro who I have seen consistently campaigned in both the West and Japan. That being Lip. Upon looking into Lip's support during the Smash ballot period, Lip was the only retro I have seen with a truly dedicated following that parallels the likes of the dedicated Daisy fan-base in many ways. As someone who pays attention to retro newcomer support fanbases closely, I know for sure that not even Takamaru and Prince Sable had much discussion and fan-dedication as Lip. I have seen supporters of Lip from the West/East that have passionately made fan art, several videos, and MANY moveset ideas for the flower fairy, with a numerous amount of hardcore PDP fans campaigning a revival of Panel de Pon and Lip being playable in Smash Bros. This following might have been big enough to vote in a grander scale than Takamaru, possibly making Lip the most voted retro in the West and Japan. Lip is the only fanbase I know that would be capable of accomplishing a notable feat in votes.

Now assuming that Lip was the most popular retro, would her being from a Japan-only game stop Sakurai from including the character? Personally, I do not think Panel de Pon’s obscurity would be a huge problem. Sakurai loves his retro characters, especially with Japan-only games. He has shown his love of these titles with Assist Trophies like Takamaru and Sable, trophies like Ayumi Tachibana and Diskun, remixes of Lip’s theme and Mysterious Murasame Castle, and, at one point, was willing enough to make characters from a Japan only franchise playable in the form of Marth and Roy. Hypothetically, If Sakurai saw the huge ballot popularity for Lip, I believe he would immediately jump at the chance. Even if her game was Japan-only, I feel that worldwide demand would be able to make up for her obscurity. Sakurai personally considered Panel de Pon to be a masterpiece, and this alone makes me certain that he loves the the franchise. I would not be very surprised if this quickly enticed him to make Lip a playable character. Lip’s gameplay potential and character individuality would also be a factor Sakurai would be attracted by, with her being a magical flower fairy who would be able to utilize Panel de Pon puzzle gameplay mechanics and the flower effects of Lip’s Stick for a very unique moveset. With these positives going for Lip, I feel that she will be the next retro choice chosen by Sakurai.

Of course, there is the real possibility that Lip’s ballot popularity could have been less than Prince of Sable or Excitebiker. But, I personally doubt it at this point. With two of the biggest retro choices out of the running (Takamaru and Balloon Fighter), the only retro newcomer I feel pretty confident of being the most popular is Lip. Here is hoping my assessment is correct. Lip’s inclusion would do wonders and would help Intelligent Systems finally make a new Panel de Pon game, which would be a blessing for me.

That’s a great post. It was kind of tough to read someone simply dismissing Sable so quickly, but then you took the time to explain why you feel Lip’s chances trump his. On these forums it’s really important not to prop a character up by kicking others down, but by their own merit, so kudos for not falling into that old trapping.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Even as someone who would highly prefer and love Prince of Sable playable in the game, I still had to look at the situation for Lip fairly, and she happened to have more pros than the prince.

(Writing the pros Lip has over Sable was hard TBH. lol)

 

[N. Onymous]

As someone who has played and enjoyed both their games, Lip definitely has more potential for a fun, unique moveset than the Prince of Sable.

 

[Itty Bit]

I like how within the course of like, a week, this thread went from defeated and giving up, to super hopeful again.
Not that I'm complaining, I'm happy you guys are hanging in there <3

I can almost guarantee if she will be in the game, we aren't going to see her until the game actually comes out, as an obscure surprise retro rep. With nothing really pointing against her not being in, and the likes of other novelty retro characters like Takamaru being confirmed as assist trophies, Lip is going to be staying prominent in my thoughts throughout these next couple of months!

Honestly, the only thing that's got me nervous is that there won't really be much newcomers at all in this game, so I'm still not gonna let my hopes up. Hope for the best, but expect the worst~ ^^

 

[Staarih]

I probably haven’t posted here much (if at all), but after my boy Takamaru was disconfirmed, I’m totally rooting for Lip as the retro rep. Not that it was a case of either or, I’ve always liked Lip. After doing a little more research on Panel de Pon, she could really bring something new to the table. I’m digging the fairy aesthetic and the more girls the better of course.

But with my luck, she’ll be disconfirmed right after I post this lol.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I just had the mother of all daft ideas.

What if Lip and Ashley got in into Ultimate, and one's the echo of another?

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I just had the mother of all daft ideas.

What if Lip and Ashley got in into Ultimate, and one's the echo of another?

It could be possible but we don't know yet if Echo Fighters can only echo other fighters from the same franchise.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It could be possible but we don't know yet if Echo Fighters can only echo other fighters from the same franchise.

Well it happened before so it's not like there's a precedent against it.

 

[Slyshock]

Despite their shared body type and similarly-shaped primary weapon, both Lip and Ashley have radically different inspirations to draw prospective movesets from. It would be nonsensical for Lip to fight with typical witchcraft fare, demonic assistants and random microgame objects, or for Ashley to fight with puzzle mechanics. The only way that one could be an Echo of the other is if they were boiled down to "short character with a stick" (essentially Mii Swordfighter costumes), which would be doing an incredible disservice to the potential and legacy of both characters.