The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[ChronoBound]

Over the past year I have bought two Panel de Pon and Puzzle League titles (Pokemon Puzzle League for the Nintendo 64 and Nintendo Puzzle Collection for the GameCube). The latter is particularly noteworthy as it has been the only Japanese game I have imported outside of the Fire Emblem series. Its a great game, and it is unfortunate that it never saw release outside Japan. It is probably the best game in the Panel de Pon/Puzzle League series, in my opinion.

As for Lip, it is encouraging for her fans that Nintendo has not forgotten about her or her series (I am talking about the inclusion of the Panel de Pon minigame in Animal Crossing New Leaf as DLC and the Lip costume set included in that game as well). Hopefully, some day Nintendo will make a proper new game in that series (we are very long overdue, the last game came out in 2007).

As for Lip's playable inclusion in the next title, I do not mean to be dour or pour cold water on the dreams of people here, but I am very doubtful. In terms of a Japan-only retro character, I feel like if one is to get in, it will probably be Takamaru due to a myriad of factors (Assist Trophy and Mii costume role in Smash 4, Virtual Console release outside Japan, various major cameos in games during the last ten years).

However, in spite of this, I think the biggest thing that a character like Lip needs is more exposure and the track that Takamaru was enjoying. While she has a dedicated fanbase, few know of her outside of her fanbase (and even Sakurai has remarked about this back in 2000 or 2001, saying in regards to Lip being included that Panel de Pon was a masterpiece, but he felt that Lip was a virtually unknown character). Aside from the Animal Crossing minigame and costume, the only other new development for Panel de Pon was its inclusion as one of the 21 games included on the Super Famicom Mini.

Playing Panel de Pon in Nintendo Puzzle Collection, it became clear one of my favorite aspects of this series is its soundtrack. I enjoyed the remixes to all of the classic Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack tunes, and this honestly would probably be my favorite aspect of Panel de Pon representation in Smash Bros.

Touching on this note, it is imperative to keep in mind that there is more to Smash Bros. representation than just playable characters. I feel if Lip made more than a blip on the ballot, that she could very well be looking at an Assist Trophy debut in Smash Bros. Switch, which would be very good news. This would mark Lip's first 3D appearance and give the character its first real actual exposure to Nintendo fans outside of Japan. However, from my re-collection I did not see this level of support of Lip during the ballot period as she seems to be enjoying in this topic (it is really something that Lip has among the most active support topics during this period, being on par with traditional titans like Isaac).

Aside from an Assist Trophy role, there are other ways for Panel de Pon to get a lot more exposure in Smash Bros., namely more music tracks and especially so, a stage. A stage being included without a playable character is nothing new in Smash Bros. In Brawl, Animal Crossing and Electroplankton (a truly niche games that sold less than 10K copies in Japan) both received a stage but no playable representation. In Smash 4, long running Nintendo series like Balloon Fight, Wrecking Crew, Pilotwings, and Nintendogs all received stages, but no playable characters (though Wrecking Crew's protagonist is Mario in a hard hat).

Panel de Pon receiving a stage in the next Smash Bros. would give exposure to the core characters of the series (the fairies and world of Popples). The excellent music selection would also do much to endear those unfamiliar with this series.

Although I am pessimistic on Lip's prospects, I must applause those who are still fighting for her inclusion in Smash Bros. and return to gaming in general. It reminds me of the struggle of the Ridley fanbase who have been fighting for over 17 years to see him playable (I am honestly pessimistic on Ridley too, but I am still hoping and dreaming regardless). If Lip gets in as an Assist Trophy it would do wonders for not just growing her fanbase for the next installment, but also possibly help to ignite interest in the broader Panel de Pon series as a whole.

I have been virtually retired from speculation since the Roy and Ryu Smash 4 DLC update back in June 2015, so I rarely have anything to say anymore. However, in regards to Lip, I wish you guys the best. I personally enjoy the Panel de Pon series, and while I do not have Lip on my wishlist (which is very short at this point), I definitely do think that Panel de Pon is among the few Nintendo franchises left that deserves a spot on the playable roster for Smash Bros. (the only other franchise that comes to mind at this point is Rhythm Heaven). I do remember making a moveset for Lip back in 2009 (my how time flies).

The inexplicable survival of the Lip and Panel de Pon fanbase is truly one of the marvels of this period. Panel de Pon has not has a new game in over 10 years (aside from previously mentioned minigame in Animal Crossing). This topic has more activity than long running mainstays like Geno, Dixie Kong, and Toad.

It is my hope that anyone reading this topic at least plays one game in the Panel de Pon/Puzzle League series. There are many easy and legal options available, and copies of most installments to the series are very cheap and affordable. Any fan of the puzzle genre owes it to themselves to at least play this series.

I wish Lip fans the best of luck, and hopefully Lip and Panel de Pon fans will finally see some sort of new content for the Panel de Pon series in Smash Bros. series.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Intelligent Systems seriously needs to revive this franchise soon, especially when puzzle games like Puyo Puyo are on the rise in Japan. This seems like a wonderful opportunity to make a new game now.

While I may be campaigning for a For the Frog the Bell Tolls revival the most, I also strongly hope for PDP to return real soon. Like ChronoBound said, stay strong as a fanbase.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah I'm not a fan of the cursor, not because of its functionality, but because it breaks the fourth wall so to speak. I also don't like seeing reticles in Smash.

 

[SchAlternate]

Yeah I'm not a fan of the cursor, not because of its functionality, but because it breaks the fourth wall so to speak. I also don't like seeing reticles in Smash.

????

 

[smashkirby]

A fan video on Lip for Smash Bros. Made by Japanese fans and translated in English.

Oh my gosh! This was adorably hilarious!

 

[FunAtParties]

Petitio

????

Yes and I dont like their reticles

 

[smashkirby]

A fan video on Lip for Smash Bros. Made by Japanese fans and translated in English.

Excuse me everyone, but I forgot to ask about the voice acting in this animation. Was it just a bunch of Japanese voice clips borrowed from different Japanese media, or is this voice acting courtesy of some VERY dedicated PdP fans?

 

[PsychoJosh]

They did the voices themselves. They have original dialogue and animation in several other animations they've done.

Some voice clips are borrowed, such as the ones for Kirby and Pikachu.

 

[smashkirby]

They did the voices themselves. They have original dialogue and animation in several other animations they've done.

Some voice clips are borrowed, such as the ones for Kirby and Pikachu.

Wow, for real? They did all of that themselves? Man, now THAT'S what I call dedication. Honestly, I can't say I'm all that confident in Lip getting much for Smash this time around, but I have to say that the recent support surrounding her and her series feels...I don't know. "Positive", this time around, you know?

I wonder if someone could show this animation to Sakurai. It probably won't make much of a difference, but...

 

[N. Onymous]

So I feel the need to address this as a Takamaru fan as much as Lip is literally right next to him and Mike Jones in my absolute holy trinity of "would probably reduce me to a 12 year old if confirmed playable" tiering list.

[...]

I genuinely want both of these characters a lot, but the overall discussion in here just reminds me of all the times I spent in other communities where I had my number one just consistently **** on because he just didn't meet some base level of qualification for consideration and honestly it's really putting me off to sticking around here. =/

You're right, we should ease up on Takamaru. Here's my train of thought: we only get two retro characters per game, so if he gets in, that's one less opportunity for Lip to show up as playable. Since Lip is by far my most wanted character and I'm indifferent to Takamaru, it would be really hard not to feel slighted if that happens! But it's like I said: he deserves a chance too.

Here's something!

I like how Mario Tennis Aces gives all of the human/humanoid characters tennis outfits. I wanted to try making one for Lip.

I wish Lip fans the best of luck, and hopefully Lip and Panel de Pon fans will finally see some sort of new content for the Panel de Pon series in Smash Bros. series.

This is a little late, but this is a very beautifully written post, and it's very nice of you to say. It's great to see even people who don't actively support Lip wishing us well! It's that kind of encouragement that makes me feel like all of my fanart and support drawings aren't a complete waste. Thanks a million!

 

[N. Onymous]

As E3, and the Smash 5 invitational, approaches, I feel I should probably give everybody a quick PSA: Neither Lip's Stick nor Kirby's garbage block necessarily mean that Lip is not playable. As I've been over before, if the appearance of any character's iconic weapon meant they could never be playable in Smash, the roster would be short one heavily armored bounty hunter, two hairy plumbers, and (one could argue) a teen psychic. As for Kirby...well, who's saying Lip's garbage blocks can't have subtle differences in color, shape, etc.? And he turns into a Thwomp too, which by this logic and the inclusion of Fire Flowers would put the Mario series in deep trouble.

Basically what I'm saying is, don't throw in the towel until it becomes clear she's not on the full roster. And even then, unless she's an assist, don't discount DLC!

 

[SchAlternate]

That reminds me, have we ever reached a consensus on whether or not Lip should inflict the flower status with any/some sitck-based attack, given how the item worked ever since Melee?

 

[PsychoJosh]

Yes, in fact, Lip should have various methods of instilling a damage flower effect and other status effects.

I've been thinking about this a bit, and ties into my idea for an "EX move" mechanic, but if she had one, she'd be able to conjure different types of flowers that cause different effects. Tulips cause damage, marigolds make you unable to jump, petunias reverse your controls.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think Lip's fighting style should revolve around placing different blocks on the arena to create combos and chain links that land multiple hits just like in Panel De Pon. This will build up garbage blocks (displayed next to her icon) that can be devastating when used as a meteor smash. Each block will have a different effect as well. Tilts make use of Lip's stick which plants flowers on people's heads. There should also be references to other puzzle games, like Tetris.

The Panel De Pon stage can be altered in many ways. During a 1 on 1, each character spawns where the characters would normally stand in Panel De Pon, and their character artwork appears behind the two puzzle grids.

In 4 Player Mode, there are four puzzle grids. Holding down the L button changes the stage to Tetris. Each one of Lip's alternate colors references her friends, each of which appear as a trophy as well.

I do think it's important for Super Smash Bros to finally introduce a puzzle game character (one that actually makes use of the novelty in their move set). It's especially important because this is a unique puzzle game that belongs to Nintendo and it should be celebrated, especially considering how many games it's spawned:

• Panel de Pon (Super Famicom, Japan) (1995)
• Tetris Attack (SNES, North America) (1996)
• Pokémon Puzzle Challenge (Game Boy Color) (2000)
• Pokémon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64) (2000)
• Nintendo Puzzle Collection (Nintendo GameCube - multipack) (2003)
• Dr. Mario & Puzzle League (Game Boy Advance - multipack) (2005)
• Planet Puzzle League / Puzzle League DS / Panel de Pon DS (Nintendo DS) (2007)
• Animal Crossing: Puzzle League, a minigame included in the Welcome Amiibo expansion of Animal Crossing: New Leaf (Nintendo 3DS) (2016)

It's also an opportunity for Tetris (the best selling game of all time) to get some representation.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Lip's game has nothing to do with Tetris though...

The way I see it, her normals should be based on PDP lore and her specials should be based on PDP gameplay.

So her Smash attacks, aerials, tilts, etc. are all story-based stuff she can do as a magical fairy. Her specials involve stuff like cursors, conjuring panels and garbage blocks, with the lone exception being her watabou assist.

 

[N. Onymous]

Yeah, this basically. Even though Panel de Pon was renamed "Tetris Attack" internationally (along many other...changes), it has nothing to do with Tetris. I feel like if either game were to get a stage, they should be completely separate.

I did create a write-up for a Panel de Pon stage earlier in the thread, but it's entirely lore-based, nothing like Wrecking Crew or Duck Hunt. I think it'd be pretty fun to play on, though!

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Lip's game has nothing to do with Tetris though...

The way I see it, her normals should be based on PDP lore and her specials should be based on PDP gameplay.

So her Smash attacks, aerials, tilts, etc. are all story-based stuff she can do as a magical fairy. Her specials involve stuff like cursors, conjuring panels and garbage blocks, with the lone exception being her watabou assist.

This is basically where I am with the character. I'd like to see more people doing fun stuff with imagining her normals because her specials are all really obvious to me and should most definitely be primary PdP gameplay hooks with Watabou being the most improv thing there.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Since we're talking about attacks that involve magical conjuration of plants and flowers, talking about her normals brings to mind a character from a traditional fighting game that I enjoyed in the past, Amingo from Marvel vs. Capcom 2.

Amingo is this big funny cactus man who attacks by sprouting a variety of flowers from his appendages. The most obvious thing is cactus spikes, but he also does venus flytrap mouths, sawblade petals, strangling vines and all sorts of other plant-based attacks. Lip could conjure these types of attacks by channeling her magic into her wand.

If Lip had these types of attacks, I guess it would show off a subtly violent and malicious side to her, but that's sort of the point. Basically it presents the idea that Lip is a bit more powerful and dangerous than you'd judge from her cute and cuddly exterior.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yeah, this basically. Even though Panel de Pon was renamed "Tetris Attack" internationally (along many other...changes), it has nothing to do with Tetris. I feel like if either game were to get a stage, they should be completely separate.

I did create a write-up for a Panel de Pon stage earlier in the thread, but it's entirely lore-based, nothing like Wrecking Crew or Duck Hunt. I think it'd be pretty fun to play on, though!

I didn't mean to imply that Panel De Pon and Tetris are related in anyway. I just thought Tetris should have a stage because it debuted on Nintendo systems, has music tracks in Super Smash Bros, and has been paired up with games like Dr. Mario.

This is basically where I am with the character. I'd like to see more people doing fun stuff with imagining her normals because her specials are all really obvious to me and should most definitely be primary PdP gameplay hooks with Watabou being the most improv thing there.

I'd like to see a special where she can use the cursor to reverse projectiles back at her opponents. And it can also be used ON opponents, like Mewtwo's Confusion.

 

[FunAtParties]

Since we're talking about attacks that involve magical conjuration of plants and flowers, talking about her normals brings to mind a character from a traditional fighting game that I enjoyed in the past, Amingo from Marvel vs. Capcom 2.

Amingo is this big funny cactus man who attacks by sprouting a variety of flowers from his appendages. The most obvious thing is cactus spikes, but he also does venus flytrap mouths, sawblade petals, strangling vines and all sorts of other plant-based attacks. Lip could conjure these types of attacks by channeling her magic into her wand.

If Lip had these types of attacks, I guess it would show off a subtly violent and malicious side to her, but that's sort of the point. Basically it presents the idea that Lip is a bit more powerful and dangerous than you'd judge from her cute and cuddly exterior.

Holy. I used to have a weird head canon where Amingo was in the Panel de Pon universe. Never expected to see him in a Lip thread tho

 

[N. Onymous]

Funnily enough, I was working on a roster for a Nintendo vs. Capcom fighting game some time ago. I don't think I ever finished it, and if I did it was lost with my old hard drive, but the general "theme" was each side being a "mirror" of each other in some way (Mario = Mega Man, Zelda = Street Fighter, etc.) Lip was paired with Amingo as the unexpected older character--the whole "plant" theme was kind of a bonus. Strange minds think alike?

It'd be really neat to see Lip use different kinds of flowers and/or plants in her moveset to hammer home the "flower fairy" angle, but I don't really know if it'd be something Sora/HAL/Nintendo would do unless more than one Panel de Pon character made the leap to playable. And Lip, honestly speaking, is unlikely enough as she is.

I didn't mean to imply that Panel De Pon and Tetris are related in anyway. I just thought Tetris should have a stage because it debuted on Nintendo systems, has music tracks in Super Smash Bros, and has been paired up with games like Dr. Mario.

Say, you know what other series has been paired up with Dr. Mario? (Twice, even?) Here's a hint: I made a thread about it!

Tetris didn't debut on Nintendo systems, it was originally a PC game that came out in the early 1980s. The most famous incarnation is a Nintendo game, but that doesn't really mean anything since the license is with a separate company now.

 

[N. Onymous]

DasVergeben apparently leaked Jump Force ahead of time, which hints towards the "Ridley, Ice Climbers, Belmont" rumor being true.

Speaking honestly here: Sometimes I really don't know whether I really think that every new "leak" that pops up is fake, even if there's the slightest hint of credibility to it, or if I'm just telling myself it's fake because I want Lip in the game so badly. I know I said we should ease up on Takamaru but I'm just not hyped for him at all, and if he gets in, that could mean bad things for her.

 

[PsychoJosh]

They might as well all be fake.

A gigantic amount of disinformation is basically the same as no information. Because in either case you'd have to wait to find out for it to be true. If a credible gigantic leak came out like hard-to-fabricate screenshots or even gameplay footage THEN that's when you start believing.

 

[ChronoBound]

DasVergeben apparently leaked Jump Force ahead of time, which hints towards the "Ridley, Ice Climbers, Belmont" rumor being true.

Speaking honestly here: Sometimes I really don't know whether I really think that every new "leak" that pops up is fake, even if there's the slightest hint of credibility to it, or if I'm just telling myself it's fake because I want Lip in the game so badly. I know I said we should ease up on Takamaru but I'm just not hyped for him at all, and if he gets in, that could mean bad things for her.

How does Ridley and Simon Belmont getting in (as a long time speculation scene veteran I am going to be skeptical until I see it come true with my own eyes), in any way de-confirm Lip or help Takamaru? The only other character predictions that he has made have been veteran related.

Until Lip is actually shown as an Assist Trophy, a playable fighter, or the game's release, Lip's position in Smash Switch will not be known for a while (or for many other characters really). I am not going to set you up for a disappointment (as I said I do not expect Lip as a fighter this go around), however, for now you can dream and hope. There is no reason to not do so otherwise.

 

[N. Onymous]

I don't expect Lip either really. It's the least I can do to support the "face" of the series after all the smiles and tears it's brought me, but I understand that in the faces of characters that are ten times as popular, like Mike Jones and especially Takamaru, not to mention the whole obscurity thing that's stacked against her, she's nothing more than a pipe dream. I'd be amazed to get even an Assist Trophy at this point.

I'd love to be proven wrong. I really would. There's no character I'd want in the game more than Lip, and I'd legitimately cry with joy at the chance to see my girl, our girl, in 3D for the first time. But Castlevania is and always has been a series that's more popular internationally than in its homeland--same for Metroid--so I'm afraid that if Ridley (who I support fully!) and Simon make the playable roster, it means the game will once again go out of its way to pander to American and European players. (Japanese audiences expressed annoyance at the overabundance of this in Smash 4 via characters like Little Mac and Cloud.) We already know the "dead franchises and Japan-only characters are low priority" rule is a direct result of this pandering. If both those two characters are in, odds are very good that the pandering, and the rule, are still in place--meaning we once again get stuck with one item, one song, and one trophy for the better part of the next decade. And that trophy will likely identify the wand's game of origin as Tetris Attack, given recent trends.

Just my thoughts on the issue. Again, I would love to be proven wrong--I want so badly for Sakurai and his team to realize the potential for greatness in this character and her franchise--but I'm just trying to be realistic. I probably won't even watch the invitational: I know I warned against throwing in the towel just because of Kirby's Down-B, but the evidence is piling up, and it doesn't look good.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Nah. I believe Lip is more popular than Mike Jones. I haven't heard that name since Brawl era.
Lip on the other hand, she surprises me on lists even for Smash 5, which is a thing I find very, very positive.

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't expect Lip either really. It's the least I can do to support the "face" of the series after all the smiles and tears it's brought me, but I understand that in the faces of characters that are ten times as popular, like Mike Jones and especially Takamaru, not to mention the whole obscurity thing that's stacked against her, she's nothing more than a pipe dream. I'd be amazed to get even an Assist Trophy at this point.

I'd love to be proven wrong. I really would. There's no character I'd want in the game more than Lip, and I'd legitimately cry with joy at the chance to see my girl, our girl, in 3D for the first time. But Castlevania is and always has been a series that's more popular internationally than in its homeland--same for Metroid--so I'm afraid that if Ridley (who I support fully!) and Simon make the playable roster, it means the game will once again go out of its way to pander to American and European players. (Japanese audiences expressed annoyance at the overabundance of this in Smash 4 via characters like Little Mac and Cloud.) We already know the "dead franchises and Japan-only characters are low priority" rule is a direct result of this pandering. If both those two characters are in, odds are very good that the pandering, and the rule, are still in place--meaning we once again get stuck with one item, one song, and one trophy for the better part of the next decade. And that trophy will likely identify the wand's game of origin as Tetris Attack, given recent trends.

Just my thoughts on the issue. Again, I would love to be proven wrong--I want so badly for Sakurai and his team to realize the potential for greatness in this character and her franchise--but I'm just trying to be realistic. I probably won't even watch the invitational: I know I warned against throwing in the towel just because of Kirby's Down-B, but the evidence is piling up, and it doesn't look good.

Ridley fans have been waiting for over 17 years (and myself for over 19 years) for Ridley to be playable in Smash Bros. so its very, very long overdue (I remember feeling in May 2006 that Zero Suit Samus's spot should have gone to Ridley). As for Castlevania, even though the series as a whole is much more popular outside Japan, Castlevania was still among the most iconic franchises on the Famicom, with Sakurai even crediting it among the games that got him into home console gaming. Castlevania is a franchise with a very strong history and reputation on Nintendo consoles, so it definitely deserves a spot on the roster.

As for "Western preference", I can definitely understand that Little Mac was a bone thrown to the Western fanbase, but certainly not Cloud (Final Fantasy VII is by far the most popular FF title even in Japan, and Cloud is the most popular FF protagonist even there).

Keep in mind, even if Sakurai went in with a "Japanese bias", it would not be any better for Lip, because Sakurai has gone on the record talking about what he feels is Lip's problem: obscurity. Aside from the Ice Climbers, nearly all of the retro characters are from games that sold a lot or had mass exposure through contemporary releases (Mr. Game & Watch through the Game & Watch Gallery series which was running from 1997 to 2002, ROB in Mario Kart DS, Kid Icarus and Pit had a pretty big cult following worldwide, and Duck Hunt was among the highest selling NES games, selling over 20 million copies).

However, if Sakurai was concerned about Lip's obscurity, he probably should have made her an Assist Trophy back during Brawl, or made a trophy of her during Melee. The Takamaru model shows how a Japan-only retro character can escape obscurity and be known by avid Nintendo fans (having a dedicated mode in Samurai Warriors 3, an attraction in Nintendo Land, an official international release for your source material, Assist Trophy role, and Mii costume role).

The only reference Lip has had since 2008 is the costume set in Animal Crossing New Leaf DLC. Intelligent Systems making a new Panel de Pon featuring Lip would do far more for her than anything else, as well as a dedicated cameo for Lip in a Smash Bros. game (Assist Trophy and Mii Costume).

Lip needs her own series to have its own stand alone releases again (Panel de Pon Animal Crossing is still good news in the sense that it shows Nintendo has not forgotten about the franchise). Hopefully, it will get a new release in time the series's 25th anniversary.

With Ridley, Ridley had to go from a sprite flying in the background to a stage (Smash 64), to a role in the intro and a trophy (Melee), to having two boss fights (Brawl), to being a stage hazard that could act as an ally (Smash 4). If Ridley finally does make it to playable status, he had to do it through a very gradual process, something very few characters had (Charizard was a Pokeball Pokemon in Smash 64 and Melee, and Little Mac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl). For someone like Lip, they need small victories before big ones can happen.

That is why the AC costume set and Animal Crossing Puzzle League are good news, they were Lip's first "small victories" in over seven years, and she will likely need more of them. As I said, look at Takamaru (and even then what he has gained might not be enough to become playable in Smash Switch, I remember lots of people predicting him as the retro newcomer for Smash 4). Small victories are necessary before the final one happens.

 

[FunAtParties]

DasVergeben apparently leaked Jump Force ahead of time, which hints towards the "Ridley, Ice Climbers, Belmont" rumor being true.

Speaking honestly here: Sometimes I really don't know whether I really think that every new "leak" that pops up is fake, even if there's the slightest hint of credibility to it, or if I'm just telling myself it's fake because I want Lip in the game so badly. I know I said we should ease up on Takamaru but I'm just not hyped for him at all, and if he gets in, that could mean bad things for her.

I tend to believe links most of the time if they pick up any sort of steam, especially after the Gematsu and ESRB leaks last time.

I still really don't understand the Belmont choice.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Don't worry Lippy. You're not alone in this waiting room, and you are more loved than you think.

 

[N. Onymous]

I hope these words ring true. None of us really know which direction Smash should take, but I know at least it shouldn't be a glorified advertisement for the latest Nintendo (and related companies) products.

Maybe our best bet would be a successful, high-profile Panel de Pon revival. In which case we're all really screwed.

 

[FunAtParties]

I hope these words ring true. None of us really know which direction Smash should take, but I know at least it shouldn't be a glorified advertisement for the latest Nintendo (and related companies) products.

Maybe our best bet would be a successful, high-profile Panel de Pon revival. In which case we're all really screwed.

Fully agreed, Smash should never be an advertising platform. That being said, I don't mind one or 2 characters that serve that purpose as long as they aren't too much a stretch.

I'm still pretty salty about this leak being truer every day. Most of my favs left out again, and I just dont get the 3rd party selections or the implementation of those selections (why Geno and Mallow? ). I'll live, and jump from hyped to disappointment, but I really would like more of a sensible approach to putting a roster together.

Spoiler: If the leak is true

On the possibility it's true, I do wanna discuss some choices. Like I said, I don'tget some of the 3rd party choices. Geno makes sense, until the added Mallow. People did not ask for Mallow. I like Mallow, but it was clear he wasn't intended to be a part of this when Geno was getting his support for the last 10 plus years.
Snake makes sense, at least from the popularity aspect.
Sora is out there, and unless they have KH3 ready to come to Switch, he shouldn't be there, at least before many other picks.
Belmont is just... idk. Like I said, I get Snake, but imo Konami has a waiting list and Bomberman was next.

I don't understand picks like Medusa or Goroh, even though I don't hate them, I think, especially in Medusa's case they made a reach. Once again ignoring more modern Kirby and surpassing the rep numbers with Kid Icarus doesn't look good either.
Rhythm Heaven is the only previously unrepped Nintendo franchise included, and that's just bad.

 

[PsychoJosh]

My top 5 are generally characters that aren't on anyone's radar, and that bums me out, but I still try to maintain hope. I think sleeper characters are great, no one knows they want them until after they show up.

 

[FunAtParties]

My top 5 are generally characters that aren't on anyone's radar, and that bums me out, but I still try to maintain hope. I think sleeper characters are great, no one knows they want them until after they show up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna be sad Starfy doesn't make it at this point, but Rayman, that one hurts.

So I'm trying to find the original source for all these leaks, and I'm not having luck. I saw one where dasvergeben claimed Ridley was playable, and one where it said a bunch of third parties were, but no Ridley, Belmont, IC leak, or the larger one.

 

[N. Onymous]

Assuming Vergeben is true, he says the imgur leak (the one with Sora, Geno and Mallow, Porky, Medusa, etc.) is a fake piggybacking off his information, so take solace in that at least.

The "ridley, IC, belmont" leak I'm talking about is Vergeben. He also claims that Snake is coming back, and that the game will feature Minecraft content in some way. Which all sounds basically like wish fulfillment, honestly.

 

[FunAtParties]

Assuming Vergeben is true, he says the imgur leak (the one with Sora, Geno and Mallow, Porky, Medusa, etc.) is a fake piggybacking off his information, so take solace in that at least.

The "ridley, IC, belmont" leak I'm talking about is Vergeben. He also claims that Snake is coming back, and that the game will feature Minecraft content in some way. Which all sounds basically like wish fulfillment, honestly.

Minecraft I just can't see. I understand it's influence, but GTA is a massive influence to the gaming world, and we won't see any of that any time soon. MInecraft is family friendly, but all I'm saying is being influential doesn't make you belong in Smash.

I had a feeling the other one was piggybacking off of it, but I couldn't find anything outside of the Imgur thing

 

[Carrill]

I'd be happy to see Vergeben's leak come true while the imgur leak is proven false. Ridley has been wanted forever and the Castlevania series is huge and comes with a lot of awesome music so I'd be hyped to see Simon Belmont join. Meanwhile, I just wouldn't want to see Sora, Porky, Samurai Goroh, or a heroes vs. villains theme. Still hoping there remains room for Lip to join of course.

 

[N. Onymous]

If it's any consolation, none of the characters in Vergeben's leak (whether or not it's real) are retro representatives or would otherwise explicitly deconfirm Lippy. There's still some slight hope.

 

[N. Onymous]

Asking the important questions.

 

[RouffWestie]

Here's my final thoughts on Lip because I really don't want to talk about her anymore after this.

I think it's best if I just consider her deconfirmed for Smash and any future appearances outside of Smash from the get-go. This is a battle she's lost before it even began. She already has basically nothing in her favor. Those, "small victories," people mention don't make a difference. Her support is too small and the few people that join won't make a difference. What would make a difference is if she had an enormous, sudden, leap in popularity, but there's just no feasible situation where this could happen. I don't want to fool myself into thinking she could be revealed sometime before release, then when she isn't revealed, fool myself into thinking she could be a secret character, then when she isn't a secret character, fool myself into thinking she could be DLC, then when she isn't DLC, go back to square one thinking she could make it in the next game. There's no point worrying about it happening at every event when I can just say “forget about it” now and not have to deal with the slow burn.

I'm honestly a little thankful for what Nintendo and Intelligent Systems did to Panel de Pon. It made me realize they have motives beyond creating unique worlds and characters, which helped me stop seeing Nintendo as the, "good guys." It taught me to question their actions before I defended them just like I would any other game company, and that saved me from becoming a loyalist. It helped me establish my own views on what I feel is important in a game. I can't stand for the idea of reducing a game solely to it's mechanics and eliminating all other artistic elements, especially since it undermines the effort that was put into crafting one cohesive world. Thanks to Nintendo of America, I have a prime example of what mistakes I intend to avoid in my own work. That they've made it clear the franchise is not going to return to its roots means I have one less reason to think about buying their consoles, meaning I can use my money to support other creators' projects that I actually do care about.

Beyond Smash, I need to stop thinking about what Panel de Pon could have been if it were never reskinned or what it could be if it were brought back. I don't gain anything from dwelling on these hypothetical situations and should accept that this is where we are now. If I keep coming back, I'll be stuck repeating the same complaints that will never be heard by anyone who cares till the end of time. Panel de Pon was what it was, and the franchise is what it is. What matters ttein the end is that the game has left its impact on me; no matter how many more reskins they make, no matter how many opportunities to faithfully localize it they pass up, and no matter how hard they try to erase it from existence, that's one thing Nintendo can't take away from me. The team behind Panel de Pon will always be one of my biggest inspirations as a creator. Nintendo may not see the potential of the ideas in the original game, but that's perfectly fine because I do. I guarantee if there ever comes a time when I have what it takes to commit to a serious long-term creative project, Lip and her unexplored world will be the first things that come to mind that I will seek to pay homage to.

I feel like everything I can think of to say about Lip I've already gotten out of my system at this point. I don't have anything left to say about her. I guess all I can say now is better luck in the future, whenever her situation changes.

 

[Carrill]

It's sad to me that Arle Nadja gets to be the face of Puyo Pop and Lip can't be the face of her own game. It's even worse that Arle Nadja is will probably get into Smash before Nintendo's own puzzle game girl.