The end of Zelda forums?

[Illyasvel]

Since we have nothing else to discuss about, and I mean NOTHING, cause Sakurai gave us nothing, no game footage, no special moves update, no final smash update (we even had to find them somewhere else, and he still didn't make the f***** update) and Sheik has been confirmed, what else is here to discuss with our current material? I personally feel a bit empty in this subject. Don't get me wrong, I love that Sheik is back, it was my first character when I bought SSBM, was like "omg Sheik Sheik", her new look is just freakingly awesome (for those saying she doesn't have a new one, get some glasses, or look at Kirby)

But that's it. We can't discuss about Sheik in Zelda forums (not that I complain about that, in fact that's the right thing to do) and we have nothing about Zelda. Nothing. At least for now. I'm a bit sad regarding this.

 

[Melphyr]

I thought of making a thread like this... It's true we don't have much to talk about now:

- Zelda wasn't playable so no buffs/nerfs or game mechanic changes info
- All moves and FS confirmed
- No videos!!! (Not blurry ones..)
- All but one costume missing (Why am I even mentioning this?? Yeah that's what happens when there isn't a single update)

I'm now sure Zelda is Sakurai least favourite character... That or he likes to torture her fans >_>'

....sigh

 

[Fawriel]

Actually, now that Sheik is confirmed, there's quite an important topic to be discussed.
One can hope that Sheik is nerfed into the role that she was allegedly intended for: combos.
If Sakurai actually manages to focus his ADHD mind on such a clean division of roles this time, making Zelda the KO character, there are some things to discuss:

HOW should Zelda be improved? You can make her an almost Ike-type character, except not as extreme, of course. She should be able to actually GET some KOs after all.
But then, how extreme should the division be? Should Zelda still have some combo potential to be able to stand on her own legs? Should her tilts be turned into combo moves so she can start two-hit combos into her new monstrous fsmash? Should her fair and bair be nerfed to allow/force a more varied style? And so on...

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Ideally I would like the two of them to be equally good, powerful characters, but weaker/stronger than the other in certain situations. Making them truly interdependent on one another only serves to nerf them both where they can't do anything by themselves. One example of this being, Sheik has all the speed and combos but no KO power, Zelda has all the KO power but no speed, and thus no reliable way to land a KO against a fast character.

 

[Undrdog]

I doubt Sheik will be weaker. In fact I bet she's stronger.

If Nintendo decides that Zelda and Sheik are one (and since you can freely change back and forth doing a match it's pretty safe to say this is the case) then they probably consider that anything Sheik will balance Zelda.

Now this doesn't seem like a good reason, and I don't think it's very plausible either. However this next part I do.

As we know with Peach, her forward air in Melee was powerful. However to those who scrutinize every detail you could come to the conclusion that a little princess' slap shouldn't be that powerful. While I haven't seen Peach's F-Throw in action, I've heard it's even more destructive then before. But we have seen her F-Air. And in this she removes her crown to use as a weapon, thus explaining the immense knock-back from this attack.

Now what does this have to do with Sheik? Well I'm sure you've noticed the Tanto. My guess is that rather then nerf her moves, Nintendo has elected instead to add qualifiers to her attacks to reassure us of their power and range. The Tanto may very well be used with her Dash and F-Air and if this is the case, I wouldn't expect Sheik's character to get nerfed. And if this is the case, also don't expect Zelda to become any better either. After all, Sakurai already told us that Zelda has remained vastly unchanged.

 

[Fawriel]

Now, now, don't be so pessimistic. Sakurai isn't dumb enough to leave Sheik like this.
Instead, look at it from this perspective. Pulling out that tanto ( interesting to know what it's called ) should logically take a bit of time, so maybe it's incorporated into her Smashes to give them a bit of lag. Also, in my eyes a dagger speaks for a multi-hit moveset, and blades in smash have been known to hit upwards when you slice horizontally instead of hitting the opponent forward.............

 

[Iris]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised is Sakurai just half-***** Zelda's moves and let them get worse. "Hey, we figured she had quite a bit of firepower last time, blasting enemies off stage, so we decided that to even it out we'd make her moves weaker and a bit slower, that way everyone else stands a chance. Also, she's stationary now, so no more using her awesome down air or pushes." Once again, Sheik seems to be the focus of Zelda, and even Sakurai is behind this idea. At this rate, Zelda might as well be a sticker in SSB4.

 

[Drake3]

It's true. I'm pretty disappointed that Sheik was updated as a separate entity from Zelda and that she has her own space on the DOJO. Everything just leads me to the conclusion that it'll be the same way it was last time.

Not that I'm not happy about Sheik's new design. It's pretty cool, but what is this "tanto" you speak of? Is that the knife she has? Because that's probably just part of the design and she'll never actually use it.

 

[Undrdog]

I think she'll pull it out very quickly as part of some attacks like the dash attack. I mean she's a ninja right? The idea behind the tanto is to make the killing strike in the same motion as unsheathing it. It would certainly add to her ninjaness.

 

[Soluble Toast]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised is Sakurai just half-***** Zelda's moves and let them get worse. "Hey, we figured she had quite a bit of firepower last time, blasting enemies off stage, so we decided that to even it out we'd make her moves weaker and a bit slower, that way everyone else stands a chance. Also, she's stationary now, so no more using her awesome down air or pushes." Once again, Sheik seems to be the focus of Zelda, and even Sakurai is behind this idea. At this rate, Zelda might as well be a sticker in SSB4.

Ew. Zelda as a sticker O.O

Meh, we really don't know. They could balance out this time. I'm being pretty optimistic at this point. I never wanted Sheik to return, but she's confirmed so i'm putting up with her. I can't change the roster. Sheik may very well compliment Zelda this time. Sheik could be made far worse than Zelda. My optimism may be WAAAAY out there, but we really don't know anything until we see them in action.

I agree that Sakurai seems to see Sheik as the definitive of the pair, where as Zelda should be the one with the main focus, but I think he's only focusing on Sheik because Zelda wasn't such a popular character in Melee, Sheik however was loved by every Narutard and their mother. So he'll hype a character most people loved and leave that characters true form rotting in the corner.


I love Zelda, and if she was ever reduced to the status of sticker I would sincerely kill him <3

I like this " tanto". Reminds me of Impa. I love Impa's little dagger xP

 

[NeoZ]

Maybe a new forward smash(perhaps a slightly new moveset)? Or maybe the Up-smash uses the dagger... there's not many moves to chose from, as she mostly kicks.

 

[Stiputation]

I'm very concerned.
Ever since the Jumpfiesta goers say Din's fire has been nerfed.
Not to mention in the SSE video where Zelda can be seen fighting, it also looks like Nayru's love has been nerfed as well. It doesn't look like it reaches as afar.

Tis a shame that Zelda has to be defined as "Sheik". :/

 

[SuperLink9]

Of course there's discussion, in a few weeks time the first impressions of the game will be released, and some members on SWF will even have the game. The relationship between Sheik and Zelda may have been improved, in which case there will be more discussion on that. We also don't have all the details of Zelda's Final Smash, and of course Zelda's moveset will be put on the Dojo, probably soon too.

And remember, this board is for discussion on "using" the character too. It'll live on throughout the whole life of Brawl while Zelda users share strategies and favourite moves. If you claim the Zelda board dead, you claim every board dead, because now all the moves are out in the open.

I personally think Zelda could be buffed, and Sheik nerfed. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

 

[Kips]

Well we can expect Zelda to be buffed and more updates for her. I don't see why Sakurai should shoot his own foot off and make the same mistake twice. Zelda will probably be excellent, although I think that Sheik won't be too bad either. Keep the forums alive! Zelda rocks!

 

[Fawriel]

I'm very concerned.
Ever since the Jumpfiesta goers say Din's fire has been nerfed.
Not to mention in the SSE video where Zelda can be seen fighting, it also looks like Nayru's love has been nerfed as well. It doesn't look like it reaches as afar.

Tis a shame that Zelda has to be defined as "Sheik". :/

Wait, wait, wait.
First off, when was Zelda ever playable? I'm starting to lose track of all these events...

...and secondly... it's absolutely impossible to nerf Din's Fire. That move already has no use. That's like breaking the legs of a toddler you're about to armwrestle with.

So... what?

 

[Kips]

Apparently there is a video of Zelda gameplay somewhere and in it it looks like Dins Fire has been nerfed.

Not only is this similar to Fawriels simile, it is like this.

You're about to go into mortal death combat with an old man. Beforehand you poison him, beat him over the head with a tire iron, break his limbs, tear his organs out and then shatter his spine with your bare hands. And then you fight him.

That's what nerfing teh ph1r3 is like.

 

[SuperLink9]

I dunno if you can tell Din's Fire has been nerfed from a video... also, I don't think anyone really uses Din's Fire that much anyway (let's face it, it's a bit meh... all of Zelda's specials except Farore's Wind are a bit meh )

I guess when people thought Din's Fire had been nerfed, the entire character had been nerfed... I'll admit I thought like that too, though I don't see why XD

 

[Airgemini]

What if the Dins Fire could lock on to people?

 

[SuperLink9]

For some reason I don't see that being much help or very fun to use...

Perhaps it could be similar to Samus' Missile attack, Smash SideB is controlled more powerful attack, and sideB regular is a homing and weaker attack.

 

[Soluble Toast]

I dunno if you can tell Din's Fire has been nerfed from a video... also, I don't think anyone really uses Din's Fire that much anyway (let's face it, it's a bit meh... all of Zelda's specials except Farore's Wind are a bit meh )

I guess when people thought Din's Fire had been nerfed, the entire character had been nerfed... I'll admit I thought like that too, though I don't see why XD

I LOVE Din's fire =[[[[
It's amazing for moments when you don't quite kO an opponent, and you can see them alive at the side of the screen, fire a Din's fire, and they're KO'D. Once learned how to aim in all directions Din's fire is amazingly useful.

I'd be extremely sad to see it nerfed.

 

[Crispy Fries]

A homing Din's Fire would actually be pretty bad IMO. Proper aiming and prediction were a big part of its use.

 

[Drake3]

I love Din's Fire. As useless as it is, it's the perfect baiting move. Alright, well not perfect. The start-up and ending lag could be less suicidal, but it's her only ranged attack.

 

[Stiputation]

I love my Din's Fire.
Its a very strategic move when you know how to use it right.
It enables you to rack some damage up on foes when they are a pretty far distance.
Not to mention its got some pretty spiffy knockback.

 

[Luthien]

I love my Din's Fire.
Its a very strategic move when you know how to use it right.
It enables you to rack some damage up on foes when they are a pretty far distance.
Not to mention its got some pretty spiffy knockback.

The perfect ranged tool for setting up a fair. If you jump forward/backward before you use it, you get extra spacing. I edguard with it to sometimes hit, sometimes to control space (force the enemy to recover low/high).

But yeah, the move sucked overall. Even if you use it right, you're still pretty much screwed. If it's nerfed, Zelda had better get some good up-close-and-personal game this time around.

 

[Kips]

Well no a homing Din's Fire would mean that you could fire one and then anticipate their movements and get a better setup on them. It adds a bit of depth to her strategy while removing some at the same time.

 

[rageagainst]

WOAW!! where did all the pessimism come from have a LITTLE bit more faith in sakurai.

Dins fire cant be said to be nerfed, as it was proved that it is faster and bigger, but there is a rumor that its weaker. Naryus love honestly is a lot better. Theres a reason the diomond is smaller, its because the diomand itself does dmg along with the shards according to the translation in brawl central, which is godsend to stop those lowjumping foxes, oh yeah its faster now too, mabye spammable i don't know.



The very first reply to the Bowser impressions thread in the bowser board was "If they improved Bowser this much, think of how Zelda will play." Peach's dsmash has been nerfed, fox has been slowed, Ike (if marths replacement) has been slowed 200000x

Kirby has been improved
Yoshi has been improved
Link has been improved
Mario has been improved
Bowser has been improved

point of post: chill guys this is not melee, Sakurai has 3x as much time to work on it, more ppl, and experience from the mistakes of Melee. All the crappy characters are rising all the top tiers are falling , finding happy medium, guess what? Zelda was a crappy character in melee.

Note: yes peach is still bieng said to be strong like in melee, but none of the revealed characters are absurdly over/under powered, unlike melee

 

[Kips]

That's true. Her Naryu's Love might be excellent for gaining space on people trying to get in close and Din's Fire might have the best range but not the best damage. Zelda seems to be on the road towards becoming a medium-range fighter that likes her space.

 

[Iris]

I'm hoping Din's Fire will be a faster, high knockback move. It'll make up for Zelda's lack of speed when you can blast characters halfway across the screen.

 

[Airgemini]

I love the animation when you use it in Brawl based off af that one video...