Social The Egg-Cellent Dinosaurl! Yoshi in Smash Ultimate Thread!

Will Yoshi recive substantial changes in Smash Switch?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • No...

    Votes: 11 78.6%

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .

Sinister Slush

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Let's just remember that even if Yoshi's flaws were to get fixed up, that won't guarantee that his overall competitive viability will be better.
Hol up.... something isn't right in this post. Buffs won't help a character?
The exact same pattern in all 4 (soon to be 5, but hopefully not so) games that holds Yoshi back is his recovery options. His kill options has always been just barely above average/mediocre.

Smash 64 is obvious, no upB. Same for Melee but diagnol airdodge helped him a bit, Tier list placement in both games doesn't matter. 64 everyone was good in some way cause hitstun and damage output was insane, melee Yoshi is carried pretty much single handedly by Amsa.
Brawl recovery was buffed a bit with the 5 egg tosses, but the introduction of footstools, not being able to manipulate his movement during the move and him not being able to auto-snap to the ledge hurt him a lot, especially with the long invincibility on the ledge brawl introduced compared to the previous games.
Smash 4 not only did he get less egg toss jumps (even with the new movement he can do during the ET) he still cannot auto-snap ledge and the hitbox that used to sometimes help yoshi while recovering by hitting the ledge with egg made eggs/most projectiles in the game just disappear into the void.


For Brawl your tier list placement was basically mirrored off of how well you did vs MK the gimpmaster himself, near the end of the game it eventually turned to IC as well but by then most relevant Yoshi players quit the game from MK domination so we couldn't really rise any higher outside of bottom of mid tier despite Yoshi doing pretty well against IC and having GR to Usmash on MK was barely enough to help us escape low tier.
Smash 4 his recovery being exploitable still and kill options not being as common compared to early Sheik/diddy/sonic/fox/luigi days basically made him low tier before a tier list was even made, but the overrated hype from people made others put him in high tier, by then the next tier list he dropped by 8 spots. (back then, 8 spots used to be considered the biggest jumps throughout all the games, but with how wild patches were in S4 10+ became pretty common)


I'd honestly be fine with Yoshi having no broken kill options like 3/4ths of the smash 4 cast has if he was able to have buffs in the one category that's consistently held him back in all smash iterations. Recovery.
Cloud/Bayo are our worst MUs cause outside of insane kill power, their gimping power is disgustingly horrid to be up against as well from cloud's disjointed hitboxes/Nair and Bayo just chasing us offstage and nair/witch twist us into ugly angles.

Yeah, I don't understand why Yoshi's grab has always been so terrible in every single department. No KO potential, little to no follow-up potential, terrible damage even (4% for the ground-smack down throw is outright disgusting), it's not like Yoshi would suddenly be broken if they'd improve on all these things even a little bit. The only time I feel Yoshi's grab was ever somewhat good (Smash 64 aside, where all grabs pretty much had KO potential) was Brawl with his pivot grab, which was really nice and quick, then Smash 4 absolutely ruined that move as well. But even with that good pivot grab, it didn't allow Yoshi much in terms of follow-ups. ..well, unless you went for the cheap grab-release chaingrab that only worked on certain characters, which still didn't help all that much (unless the opponent was Wario, which you could do this infinitely with... but that's absolutely cheating as the Wario player could do absolutely nothing about it).

Much as I'd love for Yoshi to finally be able to use his tongue as a tether recovery, I'd much rather they fix his grab game first, because as it is, you're much better off not using it at all.
But at least Yoshi's situation is less dire than what Zelda has been dealing with. All the buffs that Zelda has received since Melee did not save her from being ranked among the worst fighters in the entire series; Zelda's competition has always had some sort of advantage against her, and the buffs that she did get didn't exactly help her poor frame data problem.
I'm pretty sure from what aerodrome/kurogane and many zelda mains said early on in the games life, Zelda was nerfed in many areas not buffed. Plus it's honestly hilarious how Sakurai won't fix her terrible upb and side-b, no reason to fastfall still and no reason she shouldn't be able to move once upb ends for such a long while.

Good frame data is still important if you want to make quick punishes though. With how laggy Yoshi's standing grab is, he can't depend on it to interrupt the third attack from Mario's jab combo.
Can jab ourselves, frame 3 OoS nair, even downb when dropping shield has good frame data.

Also, Yoshi's throws don't even have much KO potential in them, while the d-throw's BKB is too strong for him to even deliver a follow-up attack.
Melee throws mostly went into combos on a good portion of the cast, Yoshi throws was bad in brawl but we were blessed with a broken pivot grab and decent GR options on a small portion of relevant characters (Falco ZSS Diddy Pikachu Wario MK IC).
Smash 4 is probably the worst iteration in terms of throws but even dthrow has very rare uses on fast fallers similarly to melee. Still pretty bad though in S4.

I just meant that it didn't help Yoshi all that much in Brawl, if you look at his tier list placements. Sure, it prevented him from being even lower on said lists, but he was still pretty bad, and brawl Yoshi was arguably the worst of them all.
To be completely honest, if the 4BR leaders were active and tried for one last tier list before Smash 5 came out (though maybe we might try, who knows), I'd think this Yoshi iteration would drop to low tier and be the worst in terms of competitive viability cause of how irrelevant he is in the meta when the top 3 characters shut him down compared to Brawl where MK/IC he had a decent chance against so not completely out of the meta.
Just all the Yoshi's disappeared which in turned made his results dwindle. (Delta and raptor were the remaining two and they weren't going to as many as they used too).
Melee Yoshi amsa has shown you can do fine against fox/falco and other top/high tiers but he still also loses to the spacies from how prevalent the two are so adjusting to all the different playstyles can be draining a lot of the time.

And I'll still continue to think of chain grabs as cheap techniques. Whenever there's a chain grab option, the moment the opponent is grabbed is like a small pause for the grabber to prepare for the throw (or release) while they add free damage to the opponent and then re-grabbing them, rinse and repeat until the damage is too high for it to work or worse, until the opponent is in kill range. It's also incredibly obnoxious to deal with as the opponent, and as a viewer it's also incredibly boring to watch. I understand that tournament players don't give a damn about that, but I'm not a tournament player, and even if I was I would find ways to overcome my opponent without resorting to these types of cheap techniques. ..not that I'd have much choice considering I'd be playing Yoshi exclusively during these tournaments and, Brawl grab release aside, I don't remember him ever having any kind of chain grab option.

Really though, where's the honor in just grabbing your opponent and racking up their damage when they're completely incapable of doing anything about it? Heck, where's the fun in it? To me, video games are still about having fun and chain grabbing is everything but fun in my eyes, and I really am happy that they nerfed this 'technique' into the ground since Smash 4.
Feel like this should only apply to Ice climbers (melee/brawl) and Marth/D3 having infinites on a small cast of characters or Falco having CG on literally everyone (brawl for last 3).

Yoshi is probably the worst example for this argument cause his grab release is unique in brawl, even then people can escape if they mash fast enough and the Yoshi (or anyone for that matter) was mashing A too much for pummeling and accidentally jab them away which of course breaks the CG.
Yoshi's GR of course only worked if they went airborne, so if they mashed out and ended up next to us instead it essentially was done unless they potato'd out and do nothing allowing us to grab them again and not trying to retaliate.
 

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The new Yoshi game title worries me even more that it'll have Labo implementation, for some reason. I really don't want that. At least, not in a forced way. I'd certainly love the game's Plush Yoshi to be an echo for Yoshi though.
 
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The new Yoshi game title worries me even more that it'll have Labo implementation, for some reason. I really don't want that. At least, not in a forced way. I'd certainly love the game's Plush Yoshi to be an echo for Yoshi though.
I don't think there's been a main series game yet that forces Labo on you. I wouldn't worry friend :grin:
 

Yosher

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Yeah, exactly what Zinith said. Plus the fact that there hasn't been a main game series that forces Labo on you... yet. Just like how, at one point, there was no main game series that forced motion controls on you either, but that didn't stop them either. There's a first for everything. So long as it's an optional way to play though, I wouldn't mind that, but I would not want to have to buy overpriced cardboard to enjoy my Yoshi games, and this Yoshi game seems like the perfect oppertunity for Nintendo to 'experiment with Labo in more established series'. Not saying it's a set case, but the connection, and thus the worry, is there.

We'll see how that goes though, and this thread is for Smash Ultimate Yoshi! So.. let's get back on track. Do you guys expect some form of Yoshi representation, the next time Smash Bros is shown in a Nintendo Direct (which will likely be this upcoming postponed Direct)? Not necessarily a fighter, but any form of new information for the Yoshi series would do. ..or even just having Yoshi appear in a new character's CGI trailer (for once). I'm personally not expecting much of anything, but maybe you guys are a little more optimistic than I am. :ultyoshi:
 
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Yeah, exactly what Zinith said. Plus the fact that there hasn't been a main game series that forces Labo on you... yet. Just like how, at one point, there was no main game series that forced motion controls on you either, but that didn't stop them either. There's a first for everything. So long as it's an optional way to play though, I wouldn't mind that, but I would not want to have to buy overpriced cardboard to enjoy my Yoshi games, and this Yoshi game seems like the perfect oppertunity for Nintendo to 'experiment with Labo in more established series'. Not saying it's a set case, but the connection, and thus the worry, is there.

We'll see how that goes though, and this thread is for Smash Ultimate Yoshi! So.. let's get back on track. Do you guys expect some form of Yoshi representation, the next time Smash Bros is shown in a Nintendo Direct (which will likely be this upcoming postponed Direct)? Not necessarily a fighter, but any form of new information for the Yoshi series would do. ..or even just having Yoshi appear in a new character's CGI trailer (for once). I'm personally not expecting much of anything, but maybe you guys are a little more optimistic than I am. :ultyoshi:
I wouldn't say we're one of the more fortunate fan bases in a sense of representation in directs and stuff. That's a given :laugh: Anyway, I wanted to ask. What alt color do you guys use? I'm a big yellow guy myself :ultyoshi:
 

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I'm green usually. Both because I tend to like the default colors, and because green is just my favourite color. I use all the colors on occasion though. My 'secondary' color would probably be orange though if it was in; which I've dubbed ''Dutchy Yoshi''! Because I'm Dutch, orange is a very Dutch color, and I love Yoshi. :yoshi: But green Yoshi will be my go-to forever and always.
 
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Very fair, Green of course is iconic. And Light Blue is crisp. My favorite color is Yellow so I've always used the Yellow Yoshi. Even though it probably isn't the best looking color ON Yoshi. :laugh:
 

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GameFAQs is incredibly toxic anyway. I'm on there too as you've probably seen, Zinith, but I often wonder why I still go there. Especially the Smash forum there is filled with attention whores and trolls and whatnot. It's been this way for as long as I can remember. Which is at least since the Brawl days. I dunno how it was before that, but you just can't take anything on that board seriously anymore, and you can't say anything before being given a label. Smashboards may not be as high-traffic as GameFAQs but it's definitely much, much higher quality than GameFAQs will ever be, spam is much more properly handled, and I respect the people on Smashboards way more. (Not saying everyone's toxic on GameFAQs, but often it really seems like looking for the 1% if you try to single the good people out, at least on the Smash forum there.)

As for Yoshi repping his own series; admittedly, they COULD easily have made Yoshi a Mario representative. If Yoshi had the Mario series mushroom all throughout the Smash series, most people likely wouldn't have batted an eye at it. Same goes for Wario and Donkey Kong for that matter, although for these two it probably would have been a little more questionable since they've distanced themselves a bit more from the Mario series, whereas Yoshi is much more closely associated with the Mario series still as he still frequently appears in the Mario platforming games. That said, all of them have established a good series of games outside of the core Mario series, and all of them deserve to represent their own franchise. Donkey Kong does, Wario does, and Yoshi does, and I don't think this is something that needs to come into question in the first place.
 

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Being on GameFaqs, I notice that they have a hang-up over Yoshi being repped in his own series in Smash. They just won't let it go and it's exhausting...
Yeah, I dont know why I bother over there. I see a lot of threads saying "F-ZERO NEEDS ANOTHER REO, IT ONLY HAS 1" . And when I mention Yoshi they say "that doesn't matter, our long dead series deserves it more". Not to mention that Bandana Dee hate.
 
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Yosher

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Well hey, at least we got a song featured on the blog. It's not Yoshi himself, but it's something, y'know? And considering they prooobably don't have anything else Yoshi related to post in the blog (unless it's another song), they probably don't want to post Yoshi's blog entry too close to the song. So, yeah, we're gonna be waiting a while still for his entry I'd guess.
 

Zinith

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If I had to guess, it will be November 21, as that's the anniversary of Super Mario World and thus Yoshi's first appearance. The "Memories" tweet will mention it. It's proven that they do blog updates corresponding to anniversaries...

I was hoping for it to be the anniversary of Yoshi's Island, but that was back in August...
 

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Ah, I didn't know they did those corresponding to anniversaries. I think that's pretty cool. And don't worry, Yoshi's blog post will be up eventually, even if it is as late as November 21st! :yoshi:Us Yoshi fans have bigger things to worry about than a late blog entry, you know that.
 
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I think if it's on the 21st that's a good thing! That means they're showing some sort of attention to detail on our Yosh! Which would be cool for once.
 

Zinith

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Okay, so maybe the date WILL be good for our boi. I'll accept that...

I was wondering though. What do you think the blog entry will say? I don't think Yoshi is that simple of a character to summarize in 2 or 3 sentences (in terms of Smash).
 

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Thoughts on the now officially titled Crafted World?

The new aiming system looks like it could take some getting used to, but it also sounds like there will be a lot of variety in the levels. Also no word on Labo yet.
 

Sinister Slush

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It's definitely a new feature and a very nice one. Or maybe even able to hold down to make yourself go through platforms or not ala holding down so you don't grab the ledge with yoshi bomb, although that bit is trash lul
Wonder if that's the same for Bowser and other downb centric moves like those two.

No idea on the inklings moveset. You'd have to search up some vids on YT of inkling matches to see about splattershot.
 

Zinith

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In other news, the fact that the OG 8 are the ones presented on the Switch Dock HAS to put to rest the idea that Sakurai considers Yoshi a Mario side character rather than a rep of his own series

 

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Or they just wanted to put the OG 8 on the Switch dock? We can't tell what's going on in Sakurai's head. But I think the fact that Yoshi has had his egg symbol and his own stages all throughout the series should be proof enough for that, and I don't think anyone who thought differently is going to think different from this. After all, the OG 8 also appear in Smash Ultimate's main menu, so IF this was enough to make people think differently, they would have done so already when that was shown.


By the way, HOW HYPE WAS THAT YOSHI'S CRAFTED WORLD TRAILER?! Oh my goodness it looks so GOOD now! I am so, SO happy they took their time to polish this game up. I wonder if Sakurai will bring the game's Plush Yoshi over into Smash as an alternate costume.. I mean, have you seen how fuzzy he looks?! OH MY GOSH HE'S SO ADORABLE!!!
 
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Yosher

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God no, I hope Yoshi stays as far away from Labo as possible. Maybe as an optional thing but I don't want to buy stupid overpriced cardboard to enjoy a Yoshi game.

Edit to the above: That, on the other hand, would be cute. :yoshi:
 
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meleebrawler

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Or they just wanted to put the OG 8 on the Switch dock? We can't tell what's going on in Sakurai's head. But I think the fact that Yoshi has had his egg symbol and his own stages all throughout the series should be proof enough for that, and I don't think anyone who thought differently is going to think different from this. After all, the OG 8 also appear in Smash Ultimate's main menu, so IF this was enough to make people think differently, they would have done so already when that was shown.
Really, that Yoshi will likely be one of the only 8 to 12 playable characters at the start no matter what should make any of his fans happy.
 

Zinith

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I'm looking forward to Yoshi's Crafted World SO MUCH. But there's just ONE concern I have...

Can the game deviate from Baby Bowser for once?!!!

I'm getting tired of that plot point for Yoshi games and I want my boi to update in terms of story AND ability. I'd like to think that Good Feel made Woolly World so similar to Yoshi's Island because it's their first go at the IP and didn't want to rock the boat. Now that they have the experience, maybe they'll do something different.
 

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I'm looking forward to Yoshi's Crafted World SO MUCH. But there's just ONE concern I have...

Can the game deviate from Baby Bowser for once?!!!

I'm getting tired of that plot point for Yoshi games and I want my boi to update in terms of story AND ability. I'd like to think that Good Feel made Woolly World so similar to Yoshi's Island because it's their first go at the IP and didn't want to rock the boat. Now that they have the experience, maybe they'll do something different.
It may depend on the tone of the game. It seems more difficult than Wooly World was (possible Mellow Mode notwithstanding), and don't forget Topsy Turvy and DS had adult Bowser as the villain.
 
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