Mr.Pikachu
Smash Journeyman
Aww that sucks man. Hope your car troubles gets fixed though!
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Meta "The Dog House" - Duck Hunt Moveset/AT Thread/Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Spirst
- Start date
DunnoBro
The Free-est
I've come to the conclusion that the best single, sensible change to DHD would not be to buff a smash, but to buff his dair.
After observing DHD play carefully, at low % there's a lot of chances to go for dair offstage, or SH dairs onstage, however the overall weakness of the move makes it essentially just a downward angled fair so it isn't worth going for in most situations.
When edgeguarding, nair catches jumps with the strong hit, and at higher percents where dair will kill, nair reliably gimps/stage spikes with the soft hit.
SH dair only getting the ground bounce on stage at high/kill percents means it can only be used for leading into kills, otherwise you get punished.
If it was strong enough to be a combo starter at lower percents, and put opponents higher at kill percents(so the starting hit of upair will kill more reliably due to being higher, especially after an air dodge read), I think it could be used as a spacing tool similar to ganondor's brawl dair, or yoshi's current fair.
Being able to punish rolls, dash grabs, and jabs like that would be pretty big, especially for DHD who needs more in the "footsies" department.
Better smashes would help his punish/frame trap game, which I think he needs, but I think this would solve more universal issues with matchups.
After observing DHD play carefully, at low % there's a lot of chances to go for dair offstage, or SH dairs onstage, however the overall weakness of the move makes it essentially just a downward angled fair so it isn't worth going for in most situations.
When edgeguarding, nair catches jumps with the strong hit, and at higher percents where dair will kill, nair reliably gimps/stage spikes with the soft hit.
SH dair only getting the ground bounce on stage at high/kill percents means it can only be used for leading into kills, otherwise you get punished.
If it was strong enough to be a combo starter at lower percents, and put opponents higher at kill percents(so the starting hit of upair will kill more reliably due to being higher, especially after an air dodge read), I think it could be used as a spacing tool similar to ganondor's brawl dair, or yoshi's current fair.
Being able to punish rolls, dash grabs, and jabs like that would be pretty big, especially for DHD who needs more in the "footsies" department.
Better smashes would help his punish/frame trap game, which I think he needs, but I think this would solve more universal issues with matchups.
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DunnoBro
The Free-est
One thing I've started doing with zigzag, is that if I know they're going for a grab/shield grab, I zigzag at point blank. This covers both the pure grab, and shield option.
It will either break me out of the grab itself or at least punish the throw and possibly set up for a combo (unfortunately it almost never does in this situation) or lock them in shield, allowing for a roll away.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work on a lot of the premier dash/shield grabbers due to either hitboxes on their combo throws to disable the can, or inconsistently works due to their slides after grabs (falcon is the best example) But it is something to practice regardless.
I've also gotten a little better at understanding snag. While I was definitely entirely wrong about it's direct superiority, it does have a wide range of use. Primarily in MUs where shield pressure is the game. (Sheik, Fox, Pikachu, etc)
But if they are not pressuring your shield, it's pretty useless...
It will either break me out of the grab itself or at least punish the throw and possibly set up for a combo (unfortunately it almost never does in this situation) or lock them in shield, allowing for a roll away.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work on a lot of the premier dash/shield grabbers due to either hitboxes on their combo throws to disable the can, or inconsistently works due to their slides after grabs (falcon is the best example) But it is something to practice regardless.
I've also gotten a little better at understanding snag. While I was definitely entirely wrong about it's direct superiority, it does have a wide range of use. Primarily in MUs where shield pressure is the game. (Sheik, Fox, Pikachu, etc)
But if they are not pressuring your shield, it's pretty useless...
DunnoBro
The Free-est
Hmm, well I finally found a somewhat reliable set-up for killing with snag.. Only worth doing in do or die situations still though lol
When using zigzag to cover your recovery, if it hits them offstage with you, you can true combo into snag more reliably and drag them into the blastzone. Though, you gotta be real mindful of placement/percent to make sure it kills, because you just die if it doesn't.
When using zigzag to cover your recovery, if it hits them offstage with you, you can true combo into snag more reliably and drag them into the blastzone. Though, you gotta be real mindful of placement/percent to make sure it kills, because you just die if it doesn't.
Reizilla
The Old Lapras and the Sea
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2008
- Messages
- 13,676
What are some good options to go for if you know your opponent is gonna airdodge after a dthrow? It seems like most of the time it's too soon to go for another grab and then I tend to choke and whiff an aerial.
Also, does invincible ledgedrop nair work? I imagine it's way more risky than in Brawl, but I managed to gimp a Luigi with it yesterday and was wondering if it could work against characters with more priority.
Also, does invincible ledgedrop nair work? I imagine it's way more risky than in Brawl, but I managed to gimp a Luigi with it yesterday and was wondering if it could work against characters with more priority.
WispBae
Tsundere Princess
A great airdodge punish I use is a charged F-Smash. It's one of the safest ways to actually get one!
DunnoBro
The Free-est
midweights at mid percents - fsmash
fast fallers at most mid-kill percents - fsmash
midweights at higher percents/floaties - fair by reflex, upair to catch jumps, upsmash to catch air dodges (not usually worth going for)
dthrow > trick shot is a good catch-all option too, gets the air dodge, no air dodge, can pressure if they jump away, and also serves to make their return to neutral harder if you failed to connect anything by locking out a lot of their future landing options.
Also heard people use sh soft toss clay for stuff, but I feel like fair hits the same situations and is better conditioning.
Pyro-is-Magic
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2015
- Messages
- 33
outfoxd
Smash Ace
Wavebounce can into the ledge from a walk off for funsies.
Also I b reverse gunmen a lot between retreating gunmen
Also I b reverse gunmen a lot between retreating gunmen
DunnoBro
The Free-est
Don't do it at low percents unless theyre super floaties, if they're big or DI inward, you'll get blown up too often.
Also, custom DHD is really ruining my default DHD. The reflexes are all different.
I gunmen and trick in the wrong places/times
I move differently, forgetting out my projectiles cover me
I recover differently
And the worst is when I upb out of shield by reflect with default. Or trick shot to cover someone's landing/approach and just blow myself up on their shield.
I really need to get comfortable with a default character soon...
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DunnoBro
The Free-est
Seems like zigzag might have some shieldbreaker ability. While not actual shots, it seems like after it's been shot once, zigzag will "bounce" off shields and deplete them. If you get it at the right angle and time it right, this can easily eat a whole shied.
The "bounce" only does damage to shields though, not players so be ready to actually shoot if they drop/try to roll.
There's no real set-up for it though and the timing is super hard...
I've also been heavily testing with clay shot, specifically the shot timings.
On shield, there's three main timings I like.
1: No detonation to let it hover above shield. This is for when the gamestate is still relatively neutral and conditions them to think clay shot is more punishable than it is. This can let us run up and grab for huge rewards by throwing them into the frisbee and firing, though it's pretty easy for them to just roll away. I generally just throw out a gunmen.
2: Shot immediately to punish this conditioning
3: Shot slightly after to cover rolls, and the "i guess he's not gonna detonate" mindset.
On hit confirm, there's also three timings.
1: Immediate/Buffer, to make it most likely to connect. So it can catch chars with bad shield dashes, rolls/air dodges/spot dodges, and get laser priority so it beats more moves. Best at low percents where it still lets us combo.
2: Delay between frisbee hit and shots. This lets us combo off it at higher percents, by trapping the enemy in the animation longer so we can get close enough quick enough to follow-up.
3: SUPER delay. Only to be done at high/kill percents. The frisbee sends opponents very high, but with little hitstun. You do not detonate after the frisbee hit, but instead seek to punish their landing. If they air dodge, you can u/fsmash. If they just land, you can grab and down/up throw into the frisbee with properly timed shots. For some reason, when thrown into enemies like this, the shots just drag them down and not knock them back. This means we can get an upsmash while the frisbee drags them down.
This works best on mid/fast fallers at high percents, but on floaties it isn't so great. It won't generally work on them at kill percents, so it's not worth going for generally. You can try catching their jump away with upair/nair, but that's about it.
If done by the ledge, you can also bait out an air dodge after the frisbee hit for dair.
The "bounce" only does damage to shields though, not players so be ready to actually shoot if they drop/try to roll.
There's no real set-up for it though and the timing is super hard...
I've also been heavily testing with clay shot, specifically the shot timings.
On shield, there's three main timings I like.
1: No detonation to let it hover above shield. This is for when the gamestate is still relatively neutral and conditions them to think clay shot is more punishable than it is. This can let us run up and grab for huge rewards by throwing them into the frisbee and firing, though it's pretty easy for them to just roll away. I generally just throw out a gunmen.
2: Shot immediately to punish this conditioning
3: Shot slightly after to cover rolls, and the "i guess he's not gonna detonate" mindset.
On hit confirm, there's also three timings.
1: Immediate/Buffer, to make it most likely to connect. So it can catch chars with bad shield dashes, rolls/air dodges/spot dodges, and get laser priority so it beats more moves. Best at low percents where it still lets us combo.
2: Delay between frisbee hit and shots. This lets us combo off it at higher percents, by trapping the enemy in the animation longer so we can get close enough quick enough to follow-up.
3: SUPER delay. Only to be done at high/kill percents. The frisbee sends opponents very high, but with little hitstun. You do not detonate after the frisbee hit, but instead seek to punish their landing. If they air dodge, you can u/fsmash. If they just land, you can grab and down/up throw into the frisbee with properly timed shots. For some reason, when thrown into enemies like this, the shots just drag them down and not knock them back. This means we can get an upsmash while the frisbee drags them down.
This works best on mid/fast fallers at high percents, but on floaties it isn't so great. It won't generally work on them at kill percents, so it's not worth going for generally. You can try catching their jump away with upair/nair, but that's about it.
If done by the ledge, you can also bait out an air dodge after the frisbee hit for dair.
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I've been told by a certain prominent Rosalina main that the single most glaring flaw in my play is my predictable clay pigeon as I land away from an opponent which is always shieldable and punishable after the first few. I'm supposed to mix up landings, but what are our optimal options to land besides that one?
DunnoBro
The Free-est
None really lol. You're pretty much just playing "to pigeon or not to pigeon"
Fair works at certain specific distances, I guess. Can also go further offstage and can to cover your return to neutral (not recommended if they are a good chasing char like sheik or mario.)
This is why I think FD is DHD's worst stage. Not enough landing mix-up options.
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I think I get it. You want to sometimes not have to wait on the end lag of pigeon so you can try to punish the assumption of pigeon with a grab or air move or whatever. And like you said the ledge option.
Really appreciate the feedback man, thank you.
Really appreciate the feedback man, thank you.
Has bairing the can into someone always reliably sent an opponent towards you/changed the can's shot movement to be the opposite direction the bair sends it? I figured that out the other day and been experimenting with it like crazy. Seems to combo into any number of moves based on distance, %, and character. Even smashes sometimes. Not to mention edgeguarding possibilities.
I remember reading a while ago about a specific timing sourspotted dash attack to send it flying backwards doing the same thing, but this seems way easier to pull off.
I remember reading a while ago about a specific timing sourspotted dash attack to send it flying backwards doing the same thing, but this seems way easier to pull off.
TheWorstMuppet
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, since I learned it a coupla months ago it's been pretty incremental to my play. I've caught people with it offstage a couple of times and got the stage spike. I'm trying to learn the proper timing for up-air followups still, but yeah. With all the cans uncertainty, it's helpful to know that you can control your opponents trajectory like that!
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Holy cow, I've been using bair to reverse the can's movement, but I never realized it actually changed the knockback angle. I'll definitely try to incorporate that into my play.
outfoxd
Smash Ace
Same thing happens if you drop a nair on the front side of a can. Tends to reverse directions.
The front side is the farthest away part of the can from when you first launch it, right? I've never tried to reverse a can with a nair, but that sounds even easier than bairing it if it works consistently.
outfoxd
Smash Ace
It may depend on dhds facing during the nair. I'd have to check.
Does the timing of dash attacking the can do anything more than make it go backwards or forwards? Do we have any degree of precision based on timing that lets us determine the angle at which it launches? If so, how precise does it get?
TheWorstMuppet
Smash Journeyman
If you dash attack the can just before it hits the ground, it'll fly forward but at a slight angle. You'll know you've done it if you get a different hit sound. Pressing 'B' afterwards will send the can back towards you, which is pretty cool!
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Indeed. Is it always two specific angles though? You say forwards and backwards, but are varying degrees not possible?
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TheWorstMuppet
Smash Journeyman
I thiiiiink in that situation depending on how many times you shoot the can, the angle changes when you hit it.
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SanAntonioSmasher
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
- Messages
- 191
Any tips for controller set up on GCC? In particular, which button for special (can control) and cstick?
TheWorstMuppet
Smash Journeyman
I keep it pretty simple. I only change the c-stick to standard attacks. I tried to change my jump button to R so's I could shoot cans all day without lifting my thumb up, but then my hand contorts to claw form and it gets painful after a while.
Splooshi Splashy
Smash Journeyman
My current GC Controller is generally similar to the default the game gives you, but C-Stick's set to Smashes (I'd switch C-Stick to Tilts if I were repping Ryu. Also, Smash Attacking out of crawling around, especially DSmash, is awesome, especially if I replicate my avatar during the match), Tap Jump is OFF (makes going for UTilts & UAirs much easier, but you'll have to press the jump button at the same time you go for OoS/Guard Cancelled Up 2 & USmash), and is my 3rd jump button (with & as my other jump buttons), which makes moving around in the air while B-pressing the Can much easier (Pssst, try this as after Swallowing a doggie...). I wish the GC Controller had a ZL button that I'd make a Shield button to help mash out panic techs with...
is my 3rd jump button (with & as my other jump buttons), which makes moving around in the air while B-pressing the Can much easier (Pssst, try this as after Swallowing a doggie...). I wish the GC Controller had a ZL button that I'd make a Shield button to help mash out panic techs with...
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I think that keeping c stick to smash helps out a lot with getting clutch smash attacks managing to connect when the available frames for such are almost non existent.
Then again, setting it to special lets you manipulate doggy's momentum in the air after throwing out a frisbee in a strange way that may be useful to baiting out down b's (you go back a bit as you do it). Not even sure this is possible with regular b reversing.
I tend to toggle between those a lot. I put jump on B (special going on Y) to aid in using b-stick to reverse gunman out of a shorthop. That's probably not generally needed though.
Then again, setting it to special lets you manipulate doggy's momentum in the air after throwing out a frisbee in a strange way that may be useful to baiting out down b's (you go back a bit as you do it). Not even sure this is possible with regular b reversing.
I tend to toggle between those a lot. I put jump on B (special going on Y) to aid in using b-stick to reverse gunman out of a shorthop. That's probably not generally needed though.
chaos11011
Smash Lord
What is everyone's opinion on delaying the detonation of the clay pigeons (especially after the first hit deals damage on the opponent)? I've been watching some DH matches and I almost always see players detonate the pigeon upon contact for that easy damage. I feel like there can be some potential for mix ups or even combo starters if we allow the pigeon to float in the air for a bit. Since it doesn't go away until it hits the floor*, it can be used to dictate some space and make the opponent less comfortable with approaching for a few seconds. If they decide to approach, you detonate the clay pigeon and by then, you should be either close enough to get in an aerial or setting up a gunman in case they stayed back. You can probably force shields this way too and get a grab in.
I've been practicing my clay pigeons mix ups with my brother and while he isn't professional or anything, he is smart enough to make reads and adaptations and for the most part, I've been having success with it. I feel like it adds another layer of hazards to the character and if used correctly, can help a tiny bit more with the rush down MUs due to how the pigeon will just linger. It's nothing that will flip the bad MU around by any means, but I feel like it's an extra tool we can use, even if it means we don't get that extra hit in if they don't run into the second hit.
* = If the pigeon hits someone from up high, it'll vanish after a while and not touch the ground, but in the case of grounded clay pigeon use, it stays in the air long enough that it'll disappear by hitting the floor with some exceptions like it falling off of the stage. If it hits someone on the side platforms of Battlefield, it'll hit the floor before it vanishes, but if it hits someone on the top platform and the clay pigeon falls slightly off the platform after contact, it'll disappear slightly above the floor. Also, I've been testing it for about 2 minutes or so and the clay pigeons will always fall on the platform of Battlefield if it hits someone on it unless the opponent is on the furthest side of the platform (if you're on the right side of Battlefield and you hit someone on the side of left side of the left platform, it'll fall off after hitting but if they're in the middle or the right side of the left platform, it'll relatively stay in the platform area.
I've been practicing my clay pigeons mix ups with my brother and while he isn't professional or anything, he is smart enough to make reads and adaptations and for the most part, I've been having success with it. I feel like it adds another layer of hazards to the character and if used correctly, can help a tiny bit more with the rush down MUs due to how the pigeon will just linger. It's nothing that will flip the bad MU around by any means, but I feel like it's an extra tool we can use, even if it means we don't get that extra hit in if they don't run into the second hit.
* = If the pigeon hits someone from up high, it'll vanish after a while and not touch the ground, but in the case of grounded clay pigeon use, it stays in the air long enough that it'll disappear by hitting the floor with some exceptions like it falling off of the stage. If it hits someone on the side platforms of Battlefield, it'll hit the floor before it vanishes, but if it hits someone on the top platform and the clay pigeon falls slightly off the platform after contact, it'll disappear slightly above the floor. Also, I've been testing it for about 2 minutes or so and the clay pigeons will always fall on the platform of Battlefield if it hits someone on it unless the opponent is on the furthest side of the platform (if you're on the right side of Battlefield and you hit someone on the side of left side of the left platform, it'll fall off after hitting but if they're in the middle or the right side of the left platform, it'll relatively stay in the platform area.
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AcePikachu
Smash Cadet
I think I found something. Not sure if it's already found or not, but here goes!
When I fair the can, and IMMEDIATELY shoot the can right after, the can is shot twice instead of once. (Default puppy btw)
I SWEAR I'm not pressing the button twice. I've tried this multiple times to test and it's done this every time. Thoughts?
When I fair the can, and IMMEDIATELY shoot the can right after, the can is shot twice instead of once. (Default puppy btw)
I SWEAR I'm not pressing the button twice. I've tried this multiple times to test and it's done this every time. Thoughts?
AcePikachu
Smash Cadet
Also, the first hit of dair can change the direction the can is going for those of you that don't know.
I find this a much better alternative for switching the direction of the can mid neutral than jab or any other move really.
I find this a much better alternative for switching the direction of the can mid neutral than jab or any other move really.
chaos11011
Smash Lord
I should really look into dair's properties with the can and use it in my game. I feel like it'll be helpful in a lot of situations as it also lets me move the can on the move (and unless you get extremely technical with your foxtrotting/air movement, moving the can with B on the move will turn into pigeons).
I actually had a match the other day where I was a bit too nair happy when I was trying to hit the can on a Battlefield platform and I kept missing every time. Luckily I didnt get punished for any of them but when looking at the replay, I always get embarrassed during that part. I'm gonna see if I can record the battle on my phone and put it on the video thread later because other than that, I think I did pretty well for someone who has only had the Wii U version for a week (I'm a Brawl player who had the 3DS version for about a year now)
I actually had a match the other day where I was a bit too nair happy when I was trying to hit the can on a Battlefield platform and I kept missing every time. Luckily I didnt get punished for any of them but when looking at the replay, I always get embarrassed during that part. I'm gonna see if I can record the battle on my phone and put it on the video thread later because other than that, I think I did pretty well for someone who has only had the Wii U version for a week (I'm a Brawl player who had the 3DS version for about a year now)
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Pyro-is-Magic
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2015
- Messages
- 33
I've been hitting the lab and I have a big dump of Duck Hunt true combos, here is the list.
F-THROW COMBOS
At 0%
F-Throw >> Dash Attack
or
F-Throw >> Fair
F-Throw to Dash Attack is guaranteed at 0% on the heavier characters and does 18%. F-Throw to sweetspot Fair is guaranteed at 0% on the lighter characters and does 18%. On the middle weights F-Throw to sourspot Fair is usually gauranteed dealing 14%.
Between 10% to 50%
F-Throw >> Sweetspot Fair (Bread and Butter Combo)
F-Throw to Fair from now on will be Duck Hunt's bread and butter combo. F-Throw has very little endlag which makes this possible. Because of Fairs landing lag you cant continue the combo with normal attacks sadly. DI'ing away from the combo only becomes relevant around 50% so abuse this combo in the early game to rack up free damage after a grab. If someone DI's in or does no DI the combo can still work to the limits of around 65%.
UP-TILT AND UP-AIR COMBOS
Between 40% to 50%
Up-Tilt >> Up-Air
This combo does 19% fresh. This is a strange combo and wont be used all that much. Hitting with Up-Tilt is rare in the first place, and hitting it within this combo window is even more rare. On the heavier characters it is possible to combo Up-Tilt >> Up-Air >> Up-Air, which hits for a solid 28-29%, but don't bank on this being used a lot.
Between 20% to 50%
Up-Air >> Up-Air
This is just a simple Up-Air chain combo that deals around 24%. The percents for this are rough numbers but a player should be able to tell when this combo won't work anymore.
SOURSPOT FAIR COMBOS
Between 10% to 20%
Sourspot Fair >> Down Tilt
This combo deals 14%. Souspot Fair actually has a lot of combo applications. As the percents rack up, different moves have to be used to continue the gauranteed follow ups. Also note that for the Sour Fair you want to be landing with it while having forward momentum. This is not safe on shield and will get you punished severely.
Between 20% to 40%
Sourspot Fair >> F-Tilt
This combo also does 14%. Use this after Sour Fair to D-Tilt no longer works.
Between 55% to 75%
Sourspot Fair >> Sweetspot Fair
This does around 16% fresh. If the opponent DI's down and away this is actually really hard to hit, but between 60-70 it is pretty easy to land.
(Not at all gauranteed) Between 60% to 70%
Ken Combo: Sourspot Fair >> Dair
You can kind of pull off a Ken Combo but it is not gauranteed and you can only throw one Fair into the combo. This will mainly be used for style. This wraps up combos off of Sour Fair.
DAIR COMBOS
Between 35% to 60%
SH Dair FF >> Jab Combo (Bread and Butter Combo)
This combo does around 27% fresh. For all the Duck Hunt's that dont know, Dair auto cancels from a short hop. But what is really crazy is that you can fast fall after the Dair animation finishes. Fast falling immediately after the end of Dair's animation allows for some really cool combos. The lower the percent, the faster you have to initate the fast fall. Dair to Jab is the easiest combo since Jab starts at Frame 4. This is also the most optimal combo since Dair to Down Tilt and Dair to F-Tilt only do around 23% and are a lot harder to hit. (An important thing to take note is that you cant really smash DI out of the Dair since the move has a ton of hitstun and no knockback. The knockback only becomes important past 60% when it begins to spike the opponent from a standing pose, at that point all of these dair combos no longer remain true.)
Between 45% to 60%
SH Dair FF >> Grab
This combo branches off into two finishers, Fair or Can.
The Fair finisher is pretty situational, as the Dair >> Grab >> F-Throw >> Fair combo does not work past 50% and is only possible on heavy characters. This combo is better than Dair to Jab since this deals around 32%. The Can finisher is a simple Dair >> Grab >> Throw >> Can Combo. It will generally deal around 30%.
The difference between the percents required for Dair to Jab and Dair to Grab involves hitstun and frame data. Dair to Jab will work at 35% becuase Jab activates on Frame 4, but it would be impossible for Dair to Grab to work at 35% because Grab activates on frame 8. A skilled Duck Hunt could possibly get Dair to Grab around the high 30s, but they would be near frame perfect at that point.
Around 60%
SH Dair FF >> Up-Smash or Down-Smash
This is technically better than Dair to Jab since this deals around 31%, but this is incredibly hard to hit. To understand how fast you have to be, the Smash move activates on frame 11.
This is everything for now. I have some special move combos on the side but that will be another post later. Hopefully this is good information for everyone.
F-THROW COMBOS
At 0%
F-Throw >> Dash Attack
or
F-Throw >> Fair
F-Throw to Dash Attack is guaranteed at 0% on the heavier characters and does 18%. F-Throw to sweetspot Fair is guaranteed at 0% on the lighter characters and does 18%. On the middle weights F-Throw to sourspot Fair is usually gauranteed dealing 14%.
Between 10% to 50%
F-Throw >> Sweetspot Fair (Bread and Butter Combo)
F-Throw to Fair from now on will be Duck Hunt's bread and butter combo. F-Throw has very little endlag which makes this possible. Because of Fairs landing lag you cant continue the combo with normal attacks sadly. DI'ing away from the combo only becomes relevant around 50% so abuse this combo in the early game to rack up free damage after a grab. If someone DI's in or does no DI the combo can still work to the limits of around 65%.
UP-TILT AND UP-AIR COMBOS
Between 40% to 50%
Up-Tilt >> Up-Air
This combo does 19% fresh. This is a strange combo and wont be used all that much. Hitting with Up-Tilt is rare in the first place, and hitting it within this combo window is even more rare. On the heavier characters it is possible to combo Up-Tilt >> Up-Air >> Up-Air, which hits for a solid 28-29%, but don't bank on this being used a lot.
Between 20% to 50%
Up-Air >> Up-Air
This is just a simple Up-Air chain combo that deals around 24%. The percents for this are rough numbers but a player should be able to tell when this combo won't work anymore.
SOURSPOT FAIR COMBOS
Between 10% to 20%
Sourspot Fair >> Down Tilt
This combo deals 14%. Souspot Fair actually has a lot of combo applications. As the percents rack up, different moves have to be used to continue the gauranteed follow ups. Also note that for the Sour Fair you want to be landing with it while having forward momentum. This is not safe on shield and will get you punished severely.
Between 20% to 40%
Sourspot Fair >> F-Tilt
This combo also does 14%. Use this after Sour Fair to D-Tilt no longer works.
Between 55% to 75%
Sourspot Fair >> Sweetspot Fair
This does around 16% fresh. If the opponent DI's down and away this is actually really hard to hit, but between 60-70 it is pretty easy to land.
(Not at all gauranteed) Between 60% to 70%
Ken Combo: Sourspot Fair >> Dair
You can kind of pull off a Ken Combo but it is not gauranteed and you can only throw one Fair into the combo. This will mainly be used for style. This wraps up combos off of Sour Fair.
DAIR COMBOS
Between 35% to 60%
SH Dair FF >> Jab Combo (Bread and Butter Combo)
This combo does around 27% fresh. For all the Duck Hunt's that dont know, Dair auto cancels from a short hop. But what is really crazy is that you can fast fall after the Dair animation finishes. Fast falling immediately after the end of Dair's animation allows for some really cool combos. The lower the percent, the faster you have to initate the fast fall. Dair to Jab is the easiest combo since Jab starts at Frame 4. This is also the most optimal combo since Dair to Down Tilt and Dair to F-Tilt only do around 23% and are a lot harder to hit. (An important thing to take note is that you cant really smash DI out of the Dair since the move has a ton of hitstun and no knockback. The knockback only becomes important past 60% when it begins to spike the opponent from a standing pose, at that point all of these dair combos no longer remain true.)
Between 45% to 60%
SH Dair FF >> Grab
This combo branches off into two finishers, Fair or Can.
The Fair finisher is pretty situational, as the Dair >> Grab >> F-Throw >> Fair combo does not work past 50% and is only possible on heavy characters. This combo is better than Dair to Jab since this deals around 32%. The Can finisher is a simple Dair >> Grab >> Throw >> Can Combo. It will generally deal around 30%.
The difference between the percents required for Dair to Jab and Dair to Grab involves hitstun and frame data. Dair to Jab will work at 35% becuase Jab activates on Frame 4, but it would be impossible for Dair to Grab to work at 35% because Grab activates on frame 8. A skilled Duck Hunt could possibly get Dair to Grab around the high 30s, but they would be near frame perfect at that point.
Around 60%
SH Dair FF >> Up-Smash or Down-Smash
This is technically better than Dair to Jab since this deals around 31%, but this is incredibly hard to hit. To understand how fast you have to be, the Smash move activates on frame 11.
This is everything for now. I have some special move combos on the side but that will be another post later. Hopefully this is good information for everyone.
Diamond DHD
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2014
- Messages
- 272
So I was looking in to what changes the damage of the can, and I'm not quite sure about a bit of it, I know that:
Can hitting after using all shots: 8%
Shooting can under enemy/on contact with enemy: 11% (since the retical is hitting as well to deal 1%+ from the standard 10%)
Can lands on opponent: 10%
But also, I sometimes got 9%, and I'm unsure how to control when this happens, and what causes it to happen. Does anyone know if it's RNG or some other variable?
Additionally, I find it funny that the maximum damage you can get from the clay pigeon is 12%, making it stronger than the can.
Edit: Right after posting this I had can deal 12%, and I'm starting to think it has something to do with how many times the can has been shot. At least this means that can is on-par with clay pigeon, when it should at least be stronger.
Can hitting after using all shots: 8%
Shooting can under enemy/on contact with enemy: 11% (since the retical is hitting as well to deal 1%+ from the standard 10%)
Can lands on opponent: 10%
But also, I sometimes got 9%, and I'm unsure how to control when this happens, and what causes it to happen. Does anyone know if it's RNG or some other variable?
Additionally, I find it funny that the maximum damage you can get from the clay pigeon is 12%, making it stronger than the can.
Edit: Right after posting this I had can deal 12%, and I'm starting to think it has something to do with how many times the can has been shot. At least this means that can is on-par with clay pigeon, when it should at least be stronger.
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Shady Penguin
Smash Lord
So I just went to my first national/major tournament (Smashcon) and I ended up placing 13th mainly using Duck Hunt. I went under the name Dandy Penguin on the results page.
I never thought I'd place in the money at a major and I was worried about Duck Hunt's viability, so this was a pleasant surprise for me.
Personal stuff aside, I've noticed my Duck Hunt game has drastically improved ever since I started making liberal use of short-hop fair for footsies (ala Brood from Japan) and launching the Can with bair for projectile pressure (as Dunnobro commonly does).
I never thought I'd place in the money at a major and I was worried about Duck Hunt's viability, so this was a pleasant surprise for me.
Personal stuff aside, I've noticed my Duck Hunt game has drastically improved ever since I started making liberal use of short-hop fair for footsies (ala Brood from Japan) and launching the Can with bair for projectile pressure (as Dunnobro commonly does).
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TheWorstMuppet
Smash Journeyman
Aaaaah what?! There was a Duck Hunt at Smashcon?! I'm sad I missed that. Good on you, man!
outfoxd
Smash Ace
You get on stream?
Shady Penguin
Smash Lord
I lost to NAKAT and beat Mr. E, but I sadly never got on stream.
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