The DK Match Up Thread.

[Darknid]

For Wario's CG, they have to buffer the turn and grab otherwise it's escapable.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I got eliminated by a bowser my first tourney. lol.

 

[r0ni]

If you do utilt he can bite you before the utilt ends... >_> a computer just did that to me, but who besides cpus would think of that...

He could also punish the uair with his dair... (probably other aerials too, but dair does the most damage (don't know if uair would work))


So maybe it's best to just fsmash or punch him (if you've charged it) for the most damage. At least those are the safest options.

if you're trying at 0%, yea, the upair wont leave him enough hitstun. but around 25+, if you're smooth enough, you should be able to sneak in upair-uptilt on him and from there react to his response after. this is guessing (since i dont have the game in front of me, but maybe 35+% would be good for trying upair-upair-etc. i've done it, but you have to be technically smooth as possible to dont give him breathing time.

and i recall someone, some months back with some fame data saying f.smash just wasn't guaranteed. (CBK maybe?) iunno...if it legit works then its prolly best for damage at most percents but at low/mid i'd still go for upair settups.

edit:^cyphus

 

[Ripple]

Hey guys can you ask a mod (susa preferably)to update this for fox and wario. I'm on vacation in hawaii and don't have my laptop so I can't update this until I get back which will be sometime next weekand I'm sure you don't want to wait. thanks guys,

 

[itsthebigfoot]

go play mr. eh while you're out there

 

[The Pope]

You can indeed hit Wario with a fsmash on grab release. I tested it out with a friend for about a good 30 minutes and he was never able to escape it. Indeed the bike does come out but you can still hit him regardless.

 

[Big O]

Lol looks like you didn't see the wink in daisho's post. I'm sure your friend didn't buffer it correctly

 

[Jmex]

Soooooo Up smash and punch are our only two options on Wario now?

 

[The Pope]

Ok guys. We're done with Wario since there isn't anymore information flow coming in. Let's start talking about the Bowser match up.

I personally don't have any Bowser experience whatsoever. I guess we'll have to hear from the Midwest smashers for advice.

 

[The Pope]

Actually, all I know is that he can't grab release combo us at all.

 

[Ragnar0k]

No, Fsmash still works even if he bikes, you just hit it too. Right?

 

[HammerBro123]

olimar has such a good grab game on dk and someone needs to find a good way past that and also he has a really good ground game wich can **** the dk player. Also the ics all you really do is not get grabbed and stay in the air so no grab. And the metaknight matchup all i can say is dont get whornado

 

[CELTiiC]

olimar has such a good grab game on dk and someone needs to find a good way past that and also he has a really good ground game wich can **** the dk player. Also the ics all you really do is not get grabbed and stay in the air so no grab. And the metaknight matchup all i can say is dont get whornado

DK's down b i do believe has longer range than Olimar's grab, iirc.

 

[Ragnar0k]

down b>olimar

IC's uair>you

 

[daisho]

Bowser...

Range.

Abuse.

Punch.

Win match.

Also take advantage of his size.

Dthrow d tilt instead of f tilt and follow up with down b.

U tilt combos will do more damage.

Hes much easier to with everything but most notably side b.

I don't know much coming from the bowser side but just keep spamming SH double bair and he can't do much.

He still can grab release you its just not guaranteed. You still need to know what to do and when.

 

[Luigi player]

I think Bowsers jab is pretty good. It has good range and is strong.
Bowsers ftilt is not so slow and strong, his utilt is like DKs, with a bit less range, but it's stronger and has more ending lag. Remember that dtilt hits 2 times.
His upsmash hits 2 times. When he moves up and when he touches the ground again, be sure to shield that aswell if you're on the ground and standing right next to him.
Bowsers fsmash also hits 2 times. It actually can do a lot of damage (if it hits...).
You should be able to SDI (double stick DI up) out of his dsmash too (it's like Pikachus, but with less priority).

Watch out for Bowsers side B. It's like Warios bite, but a bit different (not so easy punishable, but it isn't so easy to hit with). Be sure to press in the direction you want to go to if he grabs you so he doesn't Bowsercide you. The character who has less damage can control it better.

I don't think Bowsers ph1R3 is that good against DK. Just don't DI to him if you get hit or you'll take lots of damage... (not sure if it's really worth it to SDI to him and punish him...)
Maybe it's a problem if you're on the ledge and he does it. Just grab the ledge again until the flame is smaller and then jump away and use upB to go above and past it.

Be aware of Bowsers upB OoS, because it has invincibility frames at the start and goes through nearly everything (I think there is at least 1 frame where he isn't invincible and doesn't attack, because you can't use it OoS when an MK tornados Bowser (well, you can, but you'll get hit)). It's a really really good "counter"-attack if you hit his shield, and unlike DK he can also move backwards during it so it's a really good defensive move.

Bowsers down B can also get you by surprise if you aren't careful. Especially if he's on the ground. He jumps up and tries to hit you with his butt. The jump also hit's you and knocks you directly below Bowser (be sure to DI and/or airdodge it).

Watch out for Bowsers uair if you're above him in the air, because it is really strong and can kill.
His fair is fast, dair has a hit upon landing, like GAWs bair/Pikachus dair...

Don't think you can edgeguard Bowser easily. Spiking him can be difficult against a good Bowser...


Well spaced bairs from DK should be really good against Bowser. And I think grabs are really good too. Basically, space all of your attacks well. Bowsers tilts are stronger than DKs, but his smashes are weaker. Bowser also has good range on most attacks so be careful.

DownB can help to hit him if he wants to attack you from the ground, and if he goes in the air bair him...

Grounded upB is also good as a damage racker and use the punch to kill him.

If you manage to headbutt him and he's in the ground, you could charge your upsmash because it will hit him even if he's still in the ground. But I'm not sure if it's really better than fsmash or the punch... but I think it should be better if Bowser is at low %s.


It should be in DKs advantage, but not by that much. Maybe 60:40, but Idk... Nearly nobody actually plays Bowser, there are even less than DKs...

 

[The Pope]

I really can't offer much help in this match up because I've never played a Bowser period. I play Bowser myself sometimes but even then, I never fought a DK while I was Bowser and I never pick Bowser while I'm at a tournament.

I think the match up is 60:40 in DK's favor if you just look at the match plainly through their strengths and weaknesses. DK outranges Bowser. DK is better in the air vs. Bowser. DK's ground game is probably slighty better than Bowsers. DK is equal to (or slightly lower than) Bowser in killing potential. Bowser is heavier so he tends to live just a bit longer. Bowser's recovery is nowhere near as good as DK's. Bowser has a trump card in his suicide. Dk has a trump card in his Giant Punch.

 

[Monkley6]

I'm in the same boat as Pope basically. Never fought one, but from what I understand to add to what he says...
Bowsers grounded up-b kicks ***, particularly out of shield. I'de say he has a little more killing power than DK but not that he necessarily kills earlier, more like more options? His tilts always felt more powerful to me, maybe cause I stale the hell out of them with DK lol. Bowsers got some grab-release shenanigans too right? Not sure i understand how any of it works but just a thought

 

[Jmex]

I honestly dont know what character were on at the moment but id like to throw this in right now.

Pit - He can chain grab us till about 60ish I think a little more. He can combo us, and he can gimp us. Not to mention he has a projectile.

Its easily 60-40 in Pits favor. If you dont know the match up. It could be worse.

 

[Monkley6]

Honestly, I don't know who we're "on" either, I'm just kinda thinking about whatever comes up. But... Does anyone else HATE Pit's uair? Lasts a while, is good for cutting through the edge of stages, and you don't necessarily have to get hit by the last hit, it seems to me.
Snapping to the ledge with wings of icarus, if done properly seems to be real safe too. Doesn't give me much oppurtunity to harass him offstage. Grr & jumpy little offstage characters

 

[Jmex]

Yea Up air is really good. As long as it connects your going to be hit away. Pit off stage is really good as well. His up b is nothing to laugh about.

A good Pit will make it back every time.

 

[Big O]

If he is low and has to use up b I would use Nair to gimp him. You can ledge drop to Nair and just barely make it back to the ledge.

 

[Ragnar0k]

ledge drop bair all dai. It covers so much more range and then you can also double jump another aerial before you have to up b. Unless he's coming from under the stage in front of you then ledge drop nair would be good.

 

[The Pope]

We're discussing Bowser at the moment because a few people wanted to know how to fight against him. I've been kind of taking the initiative here on discussion because the thread creator hasn't been appearing here lately nor updating the thread. We will be discussing a top or high tier character next week or maybe a little over a week since the Bowser discussion is a bit stale at the moment. I suggest either Falco or Kirby.

In regards to the Bowser matchup, keep in mind of these things.
1- Bowser will use up B as much as possible. I believe it comes out in 1 frame or so. So expect this as a counter attack a lot, especially out of shield.
2- Side B will be used as a suicide attempt when you are either at equal stock with a higher percentage or when Bowser has more stock than you.
3- The flame attack, the B attack, can rack up decent damage if you are not careful.
4- From what I remember from peaking in the Bowser boards about his grab release game, he shouldn't have a guaranteed follow up attack after grab releasing DK.

 

[Ripple]

We're discussing Bowser at the moment because a few people wanted to know how to fight against him. I've been kind of taking the initiative here on discussion because the thread creator hasn't been appearing here lately nor updating the thread. .
.

Hey guys can you ask a mod (susa preferably)to update this for fox and wario. I'm on vacation in hawaii and don't have my laptop so I can't update this until I get back which will be sometime next weekand I'm sure you don't want to wait. thanks guys,

I see that you guys don't take a look at what I post

 

[Darknid]

As for Bowser, if he ever catches you in flame breath and leaves it out there, SDI toward him and side B, you should stay elevated just above the flames and plant him in the ground.

As for Pit..idk how you can call that a Pit advantage. He can't kill very well and dies easily, plus he is extremely easy to space and has mediocre range, and bair beats him in the air.

 

[MasterCheeze]

As for Bowser, if he ever catches you in flame breath and leaves it out there, SDI toward him and side B, you should stay elevated just above the flames and plant him in the ground.

As for Pit..idk how you can call that a Pit advantage. He can't kill very well and dies easily, plus he is extremely easy to space and has mediocre range, and bair beats him in the air.

Pit goes in the same category as Mario when against DK. They both have considerably less range and KOing power when compared to DK, but Pit's Shield and Mario's cape can wreck DK if he's not careful. I'm not sure of the degree of gimping at higher levels of play, but I'm not sure if DK has enough owning capabilities to make these perfectly even matchups.

Uh, let's see... We're talking about Bowser then, right? Jab cancelled Klaws sometimes work (more on bigger guys, and it's about Bowser's only Jab cancel setup that ever works), and I think you can usually Jab and match Bowser on a ground GR since DK doesn't suffer a frame disadvantage like others. I think Bowser has an aerial GR to Fair on DK, but c'mon, when will that ever happen?

For KOing DK has it a lot easier. Bowser's USmash is just as unreliable as DK's (in this case it may have better range but less knockback compared to DK's), his FSmash should rarely work (if both hits connect though you're in for it), and his DSmash isn't as good as ours. Usually I find myself getting suicided or KO'd by Ftilts (stronger than ours I believe) and offstage Fairs— Utilts in the later percentages (it's pretty comparable to ours). You might eat a Bowser Bomb though if you try to go for a Uair though, so be careful there. I'd say Bowser's OOS Up-B can be just as annoying as our raid of Bairs though, but I'd still like to give this matchup a 60-40 DK though.

 

[Darknid]

Pit goes in the same category as Mario when against DK. They both have considerably less range and KOing power when compared to DK, but Pit's Shield and Mario's cape can wreck DK if he's not careful. I'm not sure of the degree of gimping at higher levels of play, but I'm not sure if DK has enough owning capabilities to make these perfectly even matchups.

Uh, let's see... We're talking about Bowser then, right? Jab cancelled Klaws sometimes work (more on bigger guys, and it's about Bowser's only Jab cancel setup that ever works), and I think you can usually Jab and match Bowser on a ground GR since DK doesn't suffer a frame disadvantage like others. I think Bowser has an aerial GR to Fair on DK, but c'mon, when will that ever happen?

For KOing DK has it a lot easier. Bowser's USmash is just as unreliable as DK's (in this case it may have better range but less knockback compared to DK's), his FSmash should rarely work (if both hits connect though you're in for it), and his DSmash isn't as good as ours. Usually I find myself getting suicided or KO'd by Ftilts (stronger than ours I believe) and offstage Fairs— Utilts in the later percentages (it's pretty comparable to ours). You might eat a Bowser Bomb though if you try to go for a Uair though, so be careful there. I'd say Bowser's OOS Up-B can be just as annoying as our raid of Bairs though, but I'd still like to give this matchup a 60-40 DK though.

But Mario also has better spacing, is a lot more powerful, mobile and agile and has superior gimping, as well as great combo ability and really fast A moves, and is generally a completely different character. Pit's shield isn't that hard to avoid, and if he messes it up you can gimp him. Mario's cape is such a large disjointed move(I believe it's area affect, and loses to nothing) that it can get you every time. Anyways, I've never seen why people play Pit, he seems like a horrible character and the supposed best pits in the world don't appear to make him any good.

 

[MasterCheeze]

But Mario also has better spacing, is a lot more powerful, mobile and agile and has superior gimping, as well as great combo ability and really fast A moves, and is generally a completely different character. Pit's shield isn't that hard to avoid, and if he messes it up you can gimp him. Mario's cape is such a large disjointed move(I believe it's area affect, and loses to nothing) that it can get you every time. Anyways, I've never seen why people play Pit, he seems like a horrible character and the supposed best pits in the world don't appear to make him any good.

Apparantly a lot of Pit's multi-hit moves are supposed to give DK a lot of trouble like his Jab, Uair, and sometimes Side-B. And at least Pit has a better chance to recover if he goes offstage to gimp DK, and Pit's projectile can somewhat gimp too (not as severe as Zamus I'd say, but it can be a nusance).

I always thought DK was superior to Pit and Mario, but some people like to say that their gimping and combo abilities are enough to make them even matchups. I'd like to believe Mario's even and Pit's more along the lines of 55 or 60 advantage DK.

 

[Jmex]

Mario I believe is 50:50 imo

Pit would be 50:50

Bowser is 60:40 DK advantage.

Like i said though, with the chain grab pit has on DK, it just hurts a little inside when that happens to me.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

mario isn't even once you learn how to avoid the cape, he can't ko you at all

 

[Jmex]

Yea I would have to agree with that.

Once you learn how to avoid the cape it goes up to 55:45 or 60:40.

 

[Luigi player]

Mario I believe is 50:50 imo

Pit would be 50:50

Bowser is 60:40 DK advantage.

Like i said though, with the chain grab pit has on DK, it just hurts a little inside when that happens to me.

Did you try upBing out of the chaingrab? Idk if it works, but sometimes it works against Falcos (if they don't chaingrab perfectly).

 

[Jmex]

Yea, I tried jabbing up b'ing, spot dodging, rolling, jumping. I tried everything.

The chaingrab is not hard to do. It dosent even require like buffering.

Its just straight out gayness.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

whats funny is most pits that go for this on me take about 60% trying to get the grab

just spam downb and dtilt, they want the grab badly

 

[Darknid]

up B can catch them if they slip up and don't do it as fast as they can, but bigfoot is right, DK can make himself a real ***** to grab unless you're D3 or Zard.

Anyways you guys should really try to concentrate on how to give good tips on a matchup, a lot of people(myself included sometimes) just ramble on about stuff that has to be learned from experience.

I find that the best way is to discuss the unique situations that a particular matchup creates.

For instance, on Bowser:

1. Avoid attacking his shield with any attack but downB. The reason is that Bowser's OOS game is deadly and his throws hurt. Try to make him approach as best you can and keep your spacing dead on to avoid his grabs and OOS game.

2. Gimping is a must. Gimp him with the bair WOP, it's easier than a spike.

3. Don't let him get below you, he has utilt, usmash and uair all of which are excellent kill moves.

 

[chimpact]

How does DK do against Peach and marth?

 

[daisho]

50:50 with peach (I think its much easier but im pretty sure thats the consensus)

60:40 with marth

 

[Darknid]

I find it hard to believe that DK doesn't beat Peach either. It's definitely one of his easier matchups

 

[mountain_tiger]

IMO, Peach vs Donkey Kong is 55:45 DK's favour, but none of the other Peaches seem to agree with me.

As for Marth, I don't know. 55:45 as well?