The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[Uffe]

So... when did Luigi pop up?

A half a page back. I'd like to see what the Luigi's have to say. I just made them sound like a family, didn't I?

 

[hippiedude92]

ok kiddies believe what you wanna believe ^_^

lol i heard u fought luigiking in genesis, and he says its 65:35 luigi ROFL xDDDD!

Get ur luigi's here hippy.

It's totally even.

Or 99/1 Mario's favor, whichever works better.

already did nugguh, posted dat **** in the gd thread. but im REALLY afraid if RANDOM people just jump in and say random bs and say luigi's side b > mario's side b lol. and luigi boards are really dead, so is mario boards but not as much as marios honestly.

ill give my input i guess later if becomes productive discussion.

I'll say that it's either 5/5 or most more near 55:45 luigi, won't frequently see 55:45 mario, and the MU becomes mostly CP dependent.

I'll also say it's not that hard to gimp Mario as well. inb4flames, it's also easy to gimp mario vice versa too lulzzzzz

 

[Locuan]

Ah, 50:50, dead even, as we have discussed before in the Luigi Boards (dunno if here) everything summarizes up to what Luigi lacks in his game Mario has and the same goes in reverse.

Might think of elaborating later on... (unlikely 2 calculus II tests tomorrow *evil laugh*).

 

[Yonder]

Geez, can we just fuse Mario and Luigi together to make the ultimate character? Better overall speed gimping, killing, recovery gimpabilty...and maybe just slightly harder to be infinited by DDD?

Wishful thinking lol.

 

[LuigiKing]

lol i heard u fought luigiking in genesis, and he says its 65:35 luigi ROFL xDDDD!

Thats because it is hippie T.T

Have you ever played a good mario with your luigi? Vato is probably one of the better marios in cali, and the matchup is still stupid easy. Luigi is essentially the same character but better, making the matchup a nightmare for mario...

I'm literally laughing out loud right now because of how ridiculous this is. You kill him a clear 50% earlier, have better recovery if you play smart, and outrange him with bair and some other moves. Mario is a LOT better in theory than he is in practice, I promise you this.

 

[Matador]

Thats because it is hippie T.T

Have you ever played a good mario with your luigi? Vato is probably one of the better marios in cali, and the matchup is still stupid easy. Luigi is essentially the same character but better, making the matchup a nightmare for mario...

I'm literally laughing out loud right now because of how ridiculous this is. You kill him a clear 50% earlier, have better recovery if you play smart, and outrange him with bair and some other moves. Mario is a LOT better in theory than he is in practice, I promise you this.

lol, play me. I'll help you see the light.

Remember that for pretty much EVERY strength that Luigi there is a weakness in which Mario excels. Luigi's defensive game and approach are lulzy while Mario's are rather decent. Luigi's recovery is great, but Mario's gimp game is even better.

If you play offensively vs Luigi, you're going to fail. You're playing HIS game, in which he's going to ALWAYS win. If you play defensively, you're going against his strengths and playing his weaknesses.

But whatever. Talk is indeed very inexpensive. If we ever play, wifi or otherwise, I'll have you saying "Wtf?!?!" all over the place.

 

[LuigiKing]

lol, play me. I'll help you see the light.

Remember that for pretty much EVERY strength that Luigi there is a weakness in which Mario excels. Luigi's defensive game and approach are lulzy while Mario's are rather decent. Luigi's recovery is great, but Mario's gimp game is even better.

If you play offensively vs Luigi, you're going to fail. You're playing HIS game, in which he's going to ALWAYS win. If you play defensively, you're going against his strengths and playing his weaknesses.

But whatever. Talk is indeed very inexpensive. If we ever play, wifi or otherwise, I'll have you saying "Wtf?!?!" all over the place.

Haha, well I refuse to believe the matchup is less than 60:40 Luigi regardless. Though you have a point about being aggressive. I just feel that if mario's defensive game worked as well as it sounds he would be doing better. His defense is his best part of his game, and its AVERAGE. Thats the problem in my eyes =/

Also, were you at Genesis?

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

it's slightly in Luigi's favor...I really don't feel I need to explain myself but if you want me to I will

 

[Matador]

Haha, well I refuse to believe the matchup is less than 60:40 Luigi regardless. Though you have a point about being aggressive. I just feel that if mario's defensive game worked as well as it sounds he would be doing better. His defense is his best part of his game, and its AVERAGE. Thats the problem in my eyes =/

You seem to be falling back on the whole "Mario's not doing as well as he should be" defense. Take tourney results with a grain of salt...there are soooo many variables that affect these results that they HAVE credibility, but not enough to make or break a character's viability.

Example: Reflex picks up PT. PT is magically good.

Azen takes a break. Lucario drops. Lucario's not so good against the top tiers anymore for some reason...wonder why?

Anther plays Pika...he's a great character now. His matchups are amazing. He's...top of A tier?

Of course, if your argument ISN'T hinging on "if Mario can do all that, why do his tourney results suck?", then I'll have to ask you WHY you believe Mario's defensive game is average. Further...who told you that was the best part of his game?

Also, were you at Genesis?

Nope. Too far. No money. Was busy. List goes on.

Many many johns.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

....Y'all dumb....just sayin'

 

[LuigiKing]

Pretty much every mario main has told me defense is his best thing. Maybe I'm just talking to bad marios =/ Also tourney results are not my main argument, I was just supporting the fact that mario does not really have the tools to play that defensively against Luigi. His defensive options are not that good, and once luigi does get close you have huge problems.

Anyway I'm just saying from MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE the matchup is no less than 60:40. I'm not going to argue it anymore because we simply disagree.

Though its not like the mario vs luigi matchup even matters...

 

[Matador]

Anyway I'm just saying from MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE the matchup is no less than 60:40. I'm not going to argue it anymore because we simply disagree.

Though its not like the mario vs luigi matchup even matters...

I agree with this, it's really just pointless to argue this kinda thing.

Just know that if we ever play offline, I'm changing your mind.

Believe It!!

 

[Famous]

The Matchup is pretty even depending on how you play it...We have gimping power and Luigi just has....power

 

[hippiedude92]

come on luigiking, be smart =(. You know you wanna say 7/3 lmfao. Nah but in all seriouslyness, it definitely is either 55:45 luigi or 5/5, maybe the nearest bestest Mario l've fought is Kirinblaze, we go even alot but like it still feels somewhat easy to me. Really depends who gains the momentum first but Luigi has nair to break momentum which is really annoying for Mario.

 

[BoTastic!]

Famous faces the best luigi. >.> who will disagree with him? seriously.

 

[Matador]

Famous faces the best luigi. >.> who will disagree with him? seriously.

lmfao, get ***** by logic.

Like...by far the best Luigi

 

[hippiedude92]

lol. There's no Marios that live in the GA area? Biglou marks his name in that territory.. I can't recall any marios frqurently fighting next best luigi lol.

 

[Matador]

I thought Boss >> Biglou?

That was the only point I was making.

 

[hippiedude92]

lol, some say Biglou is better, but Boss is more consistent and ventures out more most likely. But just sayin, that Biglou is often sometimes in Boss's shadow but he still gets his credit. But then again no point in arguing whose better y'know.

how about this, once l get fxxking good in bawrl, I still plan on MMing Boss like $20 in a mario bros match lmao. xD then we'll see whose advantage it is even though there is already a clear cut winner of the outcome <3

 

[jmanxiv]

55:45 luigi cause of his kill potential

 

[Matt07]

Luigi's supposed to be the shadow of Mario...

What happened?

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Luigi's supposed to be the shadow of Mario...

What happened?

Luigi's Mansion happened

 

[Famous]

lol, some say Biglou is better, but Boss is more consistent and ventures out more most likely. But just sayin, that Biglou is often sometimes in Boss's shadow but he still gets his credit. But then again no point in arguing whose better y'know.

how about this, once l get fxxking good in bawrl, I still plan on MMing Boss like $20 in a mario bros match lmao. xD then we'll see whose advantage it is even though there is already a clear cut winner of the outcome <3

Biglou is pretty decent, has to work on some things though....

20$ MM? It's a trap...Boss plays 5x better when there's a lot of money at stake...Just amplify the replays of me and him by 5x...More accurate, more consistent..more fatal overall

 

[jmanxiv]

Luigi's mansion depussified Luigi that's why he has that little edge over mario

 

[hippiedude92]

Biglou is pretty decent, has to work on some things though....

20$ MM? It's a trap...Boss plays 5x better when there's a lot of money at stake...Just amplify the replays of me and him by 5x...More accurate, more consistent..more fatal overall

lol wow didn't know that xD, fine make it $10 depending if lm confident but this won't be for a very long time xD. And if he plays alot better, then more fun it is

 

[A2ZOMG]

Have you ever played a good mario with your luigi? Vato is probably one of the better marios in cali, and the matchup is still stupid easy. Luigi is essentially the same character but better, making the matchup a nightmare for mario...

I'm literally laughing out loud right now because of how ridiculous this is. You kill him a clear 50% earlier, have better recovery if you play smart, and outrange him with bair and some other moves. Mario is a LOT better in theory than he is in practice, I promise you this.

Too bad I couldn't play you now offline and F-smash you in the nuts to make a point.

Luigi only kills 50% earlier if he can land his Up-B. Otherwise both characters die at about the same percents really. Both Up-smashes kill around the same time. Luigi's F-smash kills lower than Mario's, but Mario's D-smash KOs earlier than Luigi's. Both characters are going to live to about 180% if the matchup turns into B-air spacing.

Keep in mind, a good Mario isn't just going to let himself be Up-Bed since he knows that he can outcamp Luigi with his longer ranged fireball camping.

Also, Mario's F-smash is better than Luigi's. Luigi's has obvious advantages like some more knockback and speed, but Mario's has a HUGE range advantage. I mean seriously huge. If you don't get what I mean, it outranges Marth's F-smash. Any time you attempt a fancy spacing trick, you risk getting F-smashed. That kills you at 90%, and even if it doesn't, it does 18% which is serious damage. Even more than that if Mario manages to trick you into whiffing on the leanback of his charge stance.

The only attack Luigi has more range on is like...Jab. And at max range of that attack, he's not really comboing into any of his attacks, so that doesn't really matter. However, Mario's F-smash beats that anyway, and kills at liek 90% fresh. Both B-airs trade hits so don't think Luigi can get away with B-air spacing alone.

And then there is the edgeguarding shenanigans since Mario can really mess with Luigi's B moves offstage, and then also Mario can just U-tilt through Luigi if Luigi is coming from above. It's really not that bad for Mario.

And I'll emphasize it again because this is probably the most prominent part of this matchup. It's much harder for Luigi to land his F-smash and Up-B than it is for Mario to land his F-smash (due to the massive range difference). And keep in mind, Mario's F-smash is rather safe on block due to Luigi's low traction.

If you don't believe me that this matchup is even, you can go talk to my buddy Shugo the Fox (not the Sonic main). He can tell you all about what I did to him. ^_^

 

[Inferno3044]

It's 50:50. I'll put out some pros for each (I know some of these are comparing one to the other a lot)

Mario:
Better range mostly. Fsmash beats outranges everything you have by a lot
Better edgeguarding/ledgeguarding/gimping
Our fireballs are overall better. Can use better for camping, gimping, approaches, etc.
Has something to stop your recovery attempts
Can outcamp Luigi

Luigi:
So much more kill power
Better recovery for the most part. I normally recover high to prevent edgeguarding.
His amazing nair is better than our amazing nair
Better ground game
Traction? I'm not sure if it helps him or messes him up

Their air game is about even. Nair, Uair, and Bair are practically the same and have the same uses. Basically, you are using the same tactics to kill them. Luigi has raw killpower to kill us at lower percents and we have tons of gimping possibilities to get low percent kills.

Even 50:50. Btw why isn't there a final matchup for Bowser?

 

[Matador]

I actually abuse Cape range more than FSmash range in this matchup...especially since he's not moving lightening fast.

 

[Famous]

Fireballs destroy Luigi's ForawrdB recovery...It's the same thing as hitting a brick wall.

Not alot of people uses Luigi's downB recovery to it's full potential....Even so, it's still gimpable

 

[mariofanpm12]

Luigi mains tend to ignore the F-Smash's range and dismiss it due to its rather slow speed. Other than that, Luigi either rivals (if not slightly outranges) us in most of our moves as far range goes. Mario can play a bit faster overall, but an aggressive Mario will find trouble. Mario's Fireball game beats Luigi's. And although Luigi's recovery is great, Mario's gimping abilities still climb over that. IN the air, Mario can reliably combo, but Luigi's Bair supposively outranges Mario's, Luigi's U-air is slower(ish), and the Fair is a quick move to use that obviously beats Mario's (but what Mario uses F-air consistently?), though Mario will mainly be Bair'ing. The two are similar in weight (you seriously can't see a difference), but Luigi has more killing power.

I'm a Mario main, but I'd have to say this is 45:55 in Luigi's favor.

 

[hippiedude92]

MarioPM. Most of Marios moves OUTRANGE LUIGI not just Fsmash itself. Even though from naked eye it doesnt but due to Brawl's GAY physics and mechanics esp on hitboxes it's alot weirder then ever. And luigi's jab pretty much ruins Mario's ground game except his Fsmash. Just sayin..

I haven't ignored Fsmash at all, lol, from just personal experience, l can smell it from far a mile away.. and it usually results me psing it lol. Maybe because l haven't fought good marios yet <3. (MD/VA needs to get their *** to NY/NJ plzz)

Also, YOU CANNOT COMPARE BOTH CHARACTER'S MOVES!. Don't give me that Luigi's Fair > Mario's Fair bull****. Doesn't work like that. Maybe Mario's Fair > Luigis Dair in terms of reliable spiking, but that's what lm saying. Many people have misunderstood things like that, and tend to get it mixed it up. Most Marios from the past should know what lm talking about. *points at last year's 32 page flame war non-sense*

just sayin (stolen from monk i hope u dont mind)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario probably beats Luigi on Luigi's Mansion btw. Both characters pretty much get the same benefits from any stage, although extra Jab Lock setups are something that Mario gets that Luigi doesn't on that one stage (Luigi can Fireball lock, which isn't nearly as good however since it doesn't lead into KO moves nearly as well). Mario's KO power issues, are potentially not as prominent in this stage either since he can spam D-tilt on pillars to work around stale moves. One other thing helping Mario is his D-smash, which is a solid horizontal launcher, one thing that Luigi is lacking too.

Luigi gets more of an edge on stages with low ceilings since a lot of his KOs are vertical. Halberd probably comes to mind.

 

[ThatGuy]

MarioPM. Most of Marios moves OUTRANGE LUIGI not just Fsmash itself. Even though from naked eye it doesnt but due to Brawl's GAY physics and mechanics esp on hitboxes it's alot weirder then ever.

From my perspective Luigi has a slight reach advantage on the moves that matter anyways. The reason it's so difficult to discern is because of Luigi's absurd priority. Mario's possible range advantage (which is miniscule at best besides Fsmash) becomes compromised and it becomes a timing fight.

 

[A2ZOMG]

From my perspective Luigi has a slight reach advantage on the moves that matter anyways. The reason it's so difficult to discern is because of Luigi's absurd priority. Mario's possible range advantage (which is miniscule at best besides Fsmash) becomes compromised and it becomes a timing fight.

Luigi's N-air and Tornado are the only things that have more "priority" from what it seems. N-air seems to be more disjointed. Doesn't matter much when you can U-tilt, U-smash, or even U-air through it.

His D-smash has shorter range, and so does U-smash by an unnoticeable amount (what matters more is the longer distance he slides on charge stance). His B-air is similar in range but lingers longer. F-tilt and Jab have more range, but the max range of his Jab doesn't matter when he wants to combo.

The only attack that you don't have a very clear cut answer to is a random Tornado, which you might be interrupting with fireball camping though anyway. You can F-smash him out of almost anything or U-tilt/U-smash if he's above you.

 

[LuigiKing]

Mario's D-smash KOs earlier than Luigi's. Both characters are going to live to about 180% if the matchup turns into B-air spacing.

moar lolz here

This post is toooooo goooood. In a hilarious way.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do you know what DI is? Come back to me when you have the answer.

Basically Luigi's D-smash is never a kill move forever due to its horrible angle (above and behind him is silly for KOs) while Mario's actually can score some KOs from near the edge due to its useful horizontal knockback. Both characters don't die for a long time with these advanced techniques known as "careful play" and "good DI".

 

[SuSa]

So how many of you have thought of looking into who you can self-cape-****?

I cape ***** a Snake that fell into his mine.

I caped a different Snake that I threw into his mine, then cape *****.

 

[Famous]

I'm aware of self cape ****..You can even do it on pikachu when he uses thunder....You can also do it on any character on norfair and brinstar due to the lava/acid...

 

[vato_break]

you can also do it with a fthrow...if they have bad di and it has to be at early percents lmao

 

[hippiedude92]

lol. SuSa. Wrong thread perhaps? >_>. edit: Actuallly nvm? i think? idk eff it lol.

so like, what's the point of our discussion again? lol. We've been going back and forth which can go endinglessly when we all know both characters just about have same number identical tools for the MU >___>. I mean we can go even deeper with it saying how, different each other's tools like fireballs lmao moar lolz