The Cloud Theory (Thought exercise)

[masterbraz]

bowser looks so well done, and i saw bowser in the sky before i realized other people saw it also

 

[Captain Anthony]

If you're really a story teller and an accomplished reader, one would expect a higher regard for intricate sentence structure and a more profound respect for spelling and grammar.

Also, if you're truly a reader or a writer, you wouldn't have written this:

...it just means I am good when it comes to discovering an authors purpose and have a good eyes when finding symbolic meaning.

Most "symbolic" literary devices are interpreted by the reader not the writer. Although the writer frequently puts some sort of veil over something suggestive, it is the reader who finds and interprets everything. Commonly, fabricating symbolism out of pure perception.

If you're looking for a real writer, I'm here all week.

[Note: Any misspellings or grammatical faults are purely typographical, and in no way reflect my intellect or literary dignity.]

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Now now, let's not get to being grammer-nazis ok? No one needs rants about how someone didn't say something wordy enough for it to be any good.

I enjoy this theory, can see all the characters, and it is beleivable to me, but I won't read too deeply into for sake of keeping a view of the big picture.


As for comments eariler about Jesus toast (lol), all I have to say is that Brawl is a GAME. It is being made by people and every pixel can be made how the developers want the same way an author uses the words they want. I do not think it be mere coinsidence to be able to see popular villains within the clouds.

Also, you can make pictures on toast just by placing the butter on before you toast it in the shape you want. lol.

 

[lethminite]

new outlines

Outline Ganondorf's face in detail... Someone else tried, but I still saw nothing.

new sorry if this didn't work.

ganon with nose to the left, chin has a shadow. bowser with nose to right, mouth open. ridley same as bowser.

EDIT: also. if you can't see it with mine, look at the unedited one, in the same area.

 

[Herr Vorragend]

this is the craziest crap ive ever seen xDxDxD

 

[Paingel]

I asked him to outline the drawing of Ganondorf's face. He never replied to that. I personally believe that aspect is completely bogus. How come my opinion is looked down upon? It has just as much credibility as his does. He only mentioned Ganondorf's face because the original theory presented that. I saw someone attempt to draw in Ganondorf's face, but it still didn't work. I think that whole issue has to do with people being lemmings.

I wasn't just responding to you, but the crowd's response in general. It's not the opinions that I look down on, but the fact that his opinion is being flamed. On top of that, he's being flamed NOT because of anything that HE has said in THIS particular post, but because of what a bunch of other posters have said in OTHER posts... The theory is irrelevant. Your response to it is uncalled for.

That should be an indicator of how silly the whole theory is.

Or at least an indicator of how silly this whole forum is. Aren't there rules against trolling or flaming? Or maybe fighting game forums don't have rules like that, since we're supposed to be beating each other up anyways.

If you can see him so clearly, draw him up for me.

The problem with your request is that this sort of comparison would require that I not only have this picture, but also a picture of Ganondorf to compare it to. Which I would then have to search for myself. Hate to blow you off like this, but that's not even what I was making so much noise about.

Of course it is technologically possible. We just don't believe it was intentional.

Well... yeah... But then you're not even paying attention to the original post at all. This is what is called a "thought excercise." You don't really care if the assumptions are true or not. Even if you know for a fact that they are false, it still doesn't mean anything because you're considering a "What if?" scenario. You're just pretending that it's true for a second and seeing what would happen if it were.

Not interested in "What If"s? Fine. Post elsewhere. But don't flame someone just for trying to use his brain a certain way. Your personal emotional attachment to this subject is not a reason to flame anyone who would even dare speak of it.

Just like you are now... The same could be said about you. If it is so irrelevant, why is anyone defending it? There obviously is some sentimental attachment here.

That's called a sense of justice. Whether or not the clouds are even there doesn't even matter. It's no excuse for the severity or aggression behind your reactions to it. (Not you specifically, but the many others who simply attacked and flamed with no real reasoning at all. They aren't doing anything all that constructive, and their posts are pretty much worthless.)

I'm defending the OP, not the theory itself. It pisses me off to see you all attack him just for pointing something out. You aren't right to do that. Your opinion on the subject matter at hand DOES NOT give you ANY excuse.

You wanna know what my sentimental attachment is? That's what it is. I hate getting ganged up on, and if I see someone else being ganged up on then you're ****ed right I'm gonna say something about it. Back off.

To be honest, I'm not even sure what "theory" I'd be expected to "defend" anyways. OP wants to say that a cloud looks like Bowser then fine. Wasn't it already said that "People see what they want to see?" So doesn't that mean that people can decide what they want to see?

He wants to say "Hey! Maybe Sakurai did this on purpose!" And since he said "maybe", and not "certainly" then you can't really "disprove" anything. You can argue against "Yes." You can argue against "No." But you can never ever argue against "Maybe" unless you put words into his mouth in order to decieve yourself into thinking he actually said "Yes" or "No".

Even if you do this, it is not a valid argument. This is called "burning the strawman." Politicians may do it, but logicians should not. It's a bad habit to make assumptions on what other people are saying. Especially when what they ACTUALLY said is right in front of you, AND it contradicts your rediculous assumptions.

For example: If I say: "Wavedashing is in Brawl OR Wavedashing is NOT in Brawl" then guess what? I just said a true statement. No matter what argument you come up with, you can't disprove my statement. Even if your arguement is perfectly true and valid, you still can't disprove my statement. Why is that? Because my statement is 100% accurate regardless of whether or not WD is in Brawl.

Anyone who says "You're wrong! Wavedashing isn't in Brawl because you can't control the direction of your air dodge!" is incorrect.

Mind you, their second statement is perfectly accurate. However, their first statement is not because it is based upon the assumption that I said that "Wavedashing is definently in Brawl." But guess what? I never said that. And since I never made the claim then... *drumroll*

I never have to prove anything. I don't have to back up a claim that I didn't make. The fact that you're silly enough to think that I said something that I didn't is your problem and not mine.

And yes, I know that WD, as we know it, is not in Brawl. Does that invalidate my statement? Not at all. False OR True = True. That's all there is to it. Still wanna argue this point? Go back to logic class. You're a shame to your teacher.

But you forget that this is a whole new thread for this ridiculous theory. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE! We are tired of the "wow neat look at this" effect. It wore off ages ago. Someone decided to come along and create a new thread as if it were recently discovered. That would be spam.

If it's so spammy, then the thread should be locked BEFORE it becomes a flame war. I can understand wanting to give the thread some time to mature into something interesting, but I can't understand actually trying to turn it into a flame war for no reason other than "We don't care! We're tired of hearing this!" You really have no excuse since you could have chosen not to read it.

And didn't you just say: "this is a whole new thread"?

The stuff from the old thread is irrelevant. By making a new thread instead of posting in the old one, the OP is basically throwing all of the arguments in the old thread away and starting over agian. It is completely different and should be treated as such. Don't bring old arguments from other threads into this one. They stopped being relevant when you stopped reading that other thread.

Your own opinion may be justified. However...
Your reaction to his opinion is not.

 

[MookieRah]

It's not the opinions that I look down on, but the fact that his opinion is being flamed.

His opinion is being flamed because it is not new NOR did it add anything to the old theory. He simply brought back an argument that was QUICKLY dispelled once the video of that seen was released in which that freeze frame had absolutely no significance.

Lastly, I'd say he was flamed cause he asked not to be flamed. That tips all the readers to try and read the whole thing and not jump to conclusions, yet when they finish it they realize he just reworded an old ridiculous theory that is so obviously the product of OVERANALYZING. Honestly, to present THIS section of the boards a long dead beaten horse and presenting us with a baseball bat is ASKING to be flamed.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

MookieRah
He's a good dude.

 

[Espy Rose]

I was under the assumption that this was a "what-if" thread about the Cloud Theory. The replies I read disgusted me (not everyone, but some people, specifically Gimpy, since he hasn't really posted anything worth noting at all). I was going to reply with something big and all, but I think that the opposition just isn't worth it.

As for what you said MookieRah, instead of everyone bashing and flaming something as old as this, couldn't they just "walk away", and let this thread die, rather than flame it?

Honestly, to present THIS section of the boards a long dead beaten horse and presenting us with a baseball bat is ASKING to be flamed.

But that's the thing, he didn't ask to be flamed. Infact, he asked NOT to be flamed. I was under the intention that most people were civilized about these type of topics (I'm not talking about you by the way; as Gimpy said, "He's a good dude." Also, I'm aware that your post was used as a metaphor, I'm just literally using it, which is probably going to get me into trouble as well, but whatever).

As to Homeless: I don't truly believe in the Cloud Theory either, and I'm aware that trying to prove it wasn't your point. I did, however, truly enjoy the experience of reading your post, and hope you post this type of entertainment some time in the distant future.

So kudos to you.

 

[MookieRah]

he didn't ask to be flamed. Infact, he asked NOT to be flamed.

This is the internet. If you ask not to be flamed then it means your post is obviously worthy of being flamed, and WILL be flamed, it's definitely to be expected here on the Brawl forum.

but some people, specifically Gimpy

Oh noes, a mod is a human being! Gimpy just has a well tuned BS radar and he is calling it like he sees it. This isn't the most mature thing Gimpy has done, but it's not as if he has done something incredibly bad. Gimpy was simply voicing his opinion on the matter very bluntly. I'll be ****ed if all the mods had to be super politically correct all the time just cause of our status. I would understand if this was some kind of professional forum, but it's far from it.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

MookieRah.
He's a good dude.

ITS IN REFERENCE TO HIS SIGNATURE GUYS wwwwoooowwww

 

[Spellman]

This is the internet. If you ask not to be flamed then it means your post is obviously worthy of being flamed, and WILL be flamed, it's definitely to be expected here on the Brawl forum.

That just says a lot about the kind of people who browse Smash World Forums, and on a larger scale, the internet. It's just sad is all. There doesn't need to be any moderation over this, people just need to find it in themselves to have self control. But they WON'T, so you're right.

 

[Espy Rose]

That just says a lot about the kind of people who browse Smash World Forums, and on a larger scale, the internet. It's just sad is all. There doesn't need to be any moderation over this, people just need to find it in themselves to have self control. But they WON'T, so you're right.

I was going to reply, but Spellman summed up my primary thoughts.

To each his (her) own I guess.

 

[smashmaniac16]

i dont see gannondorf

 

[Zabie]

Am I the only one who see mewtwo beetwen Ganondorf and Bowser (that spot were you see Master Hand, I just see Mewtwo's face)

 

[SolidSonic]

The mods ought to crack down on all of the snob conformists here, its getting tired. Never have I seen so many people trying to justify flaming.


OP those were some interesting observations, took me awhile to see ganondorf, but bowser and ridley were obvious.

 

[Spellman]

OP those were some interesting observations, took me awhile to see ganondorf, but bowser and ridley were obvious.

It was actually Bowser I seen first, then Ganon when I read that I was looking for a side profile, and Ridley's still a little sketchy to me, but all in all, I love this theory and hope it comes to pass. If not, still cool stuff.

 

[Daisuke Sanrei]

Am I the only one who sees King K. Rool in the dark cloud above the Halberd?

 

[Homelessvagrant]

This is the internet. If you ask not to be flamed then it means your post is obviously worthy of being flamed, and WILL be flamed, it's definitely to be expected here on the Brawl forum.

No I ask you not to flame because it's impolite. I understand this isn't a popular theory but people do believe in it. By stating that my opinion is asking to be flamed you are insulting any smash boarder who believes it.

Yes I do believe in this theory but not because it confirmes a character. I just believe that since Sakurai has always believed that Smash should have a strong One player mode, he's going to put more attention to single player mode. So for him to do something like this isn't that farfetched. I think it is a cool idea for the dark red clouds to take over the sky in the form of Nintendos deadliest foes. Cloud symbolism is often used for this kind of thing in the same way shadows are.

If you're really a story teller and an accomplished reader, one would expect a higher regard for intricate sentence structure and a more profound respect for spelling and grammar.

Also, if you're truly a reader or a writer, you wouldn't have written this:

...it just means I am good when it comes to discovering an authors purpose and have a good eyes when finding symbolic meaning.

A stroy teller doesn't necessarily have to be a writer. Writing is my worst subject, I'll admit but I don't let my weaknesses get in the way of my dream. I tell stories because I like to create new worlds in my head and rather then write them out I tell it to my viewer or draw it out in picture form. I really do respect the english language but i was raised in an area where math was stressed much more than reading or grammer. So I'm teaching myself how to use words in a coherent pattern so I can make great literary works

Most "symbolic" literary devices are interpreted by the reader not the writer. Although the writer frequently puts some sort of veil over something suggestive, it is the reader who finds and interprets everything. Commonly, fabricating symbolism out of pure perception.

Yes you are correct, symbols are interpretted by the reader. However they are put in the literary work by the writer. It may be very well that the clouds have been fabricated by me into a symbol they are not. But does it make it any less awesome or real. I mean we already the three character in the clouds are sho ins or are confirmed so the clouds do no such thing. They only show up as to make a presence. Therefore there is no harm in believing it is a symbol even if in alla ctuality Sakurai never meant for it to happen. However I believe he did but hey it's just my opinion and I'm apparently an idiot on this thread.

If you're looking for a real writer, I'm here all week.

[Note: Any misspellings or grammatical faults are purely typographical, and in no way reflect my intellect or literary dignity.]

Thank you for your kind gesture but I only want to put my view out. If there is something I wrote that isn't in any way literate then I will kindly take it in though. I know the main post was mostly abstract because that's the way I work but I wasn't trying to make a literary masterpiece but rather coherently express my views and opinions. Thanks anyways

 

[NG7]

But (they're always a 'but') there are a number of arguments to be made against this interpretation. Look at the video of the scene. *snip*

What the feck I said this on the 2nd page.

 

[flyinfilipino]

@Homelessvagrant: Maybe you should edit your new first paragraph, where you say "I want people to understand that I'm trying to force anyone" because that's not what you mean.

Anyway, my opinion is that you'll see what your mind wants to see, because I doubt Sakurai would really try to make this big symbolic reference but make it so sketchy and only last a few frames. That's just not Smash style. But that's just me.

 

[NG7]

Homeless do you have any rebuttal?

 

[Homelessvagrant]

@Homelessvagrant: Maybe you should edit your new first paragraph, where you say "I want people to understand that I'm trying to force anyone" because that's not what you mean.

Thank you soo much..

Anyway, my opinion is that you'll see what your mind wants to see, because I doubt Sakurai would really try to make this big symbolic reference but make it so sketchy and only last a few frames. That's just not Smash style. But that's just me.

That's cool.

Homeless do you have any rebuttal?

a rebuttal for what? I already said what I wanted to say and nobody seems to be against what I say but the theory itself. That's fine to me.

 

[GoldenIke]

inbetween ganon and bowser looks like MR.G&W XD

 

[nindgod]

yes they are in the clouds

 

[Foxy]

I actually think this is cool, not likely to be a good lead but I CLEARLY saw all three of them as soon as I saw the picture.

I am a huge Zelda fan and Ganondorf's head was very easy to see. All of the features on the face are distinctively Ganondorf's, like his nose.

Bowser was, like most said, the easiest to notice. It's just extremely clear.

Even though I don't know much about Ridley, the raptor-bird-like head is definitely there and quite different from the other two heads. It's unmistakable.

While I don't believe this is significant or any form of confirmation, I do think that the picture is impressively clear and makes sense.

Although it still was a repost of a repost of a repost.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Well... yeah... But then you're not even paying attention to the original post at all. This is what is called a "thought excercise." You don't really care if the assumptions are true or not. Even if you know for a fact that they are false, it still doesn't mean anything because you're considering a "What if?" scenario. You're just pretending that it's true for a second and seeing what would happen if it were.

Wow thanks for your post. Thought exercise, hmm. You don't mind if I coin that do you? Really cool.

 

[Shishou]

Well you can clearly see Bowser, so at least he is more or less being shown in the clouds. He is probably the mastermind behind the whole thing anyways.

Ganondorf is hard to see, hard to even say that is actually a face. You really got to go out on a limb there. But regardless it isn't like Ganondorf won't return to Brawl. He is the main villain of the Zelda franchise and was in Melee.

Ridley is the only person this theory would claim is going to be in the game that really isn't an obvious choice. I can see Ridley in the game for many reasons, not to mention he is the most recognized Metroid villain. Ridley being in the intro to Melee and Brawl seemingly having some more emphasis on villains thanks to the Subspace, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume Ridley will be a char.

King Dedede makes sense as an added Villain. Sakurai made him and he wanted him in Melee... But after putting in Meta Knight who is semi-villain/anti-hero it seemed weird to have Kirby's main villain be confirmed. After Meta Knight being confirmed it seemed much more likely Ridley would be in the game over Kind Dedede, but that was not the case. So if a villain like Kind Dedede who sets the Kirby Franchise at 3 characters is in the game, a 2nd character from Metroid; one of the only other characters consistently in the games with a purpose isn't far fetched at all.


This is a good theory and really would be cool visually speaking.

 

[NG7]

There are a few things stopping your post from being thought exercise. Your arguments were already presented by others when the screenshot first emerged. Your approach isn't different at all. Also why present and invite people to put thought into a theory that's been proven wrong. It isn't productive to me at all.

Props for remaining courteous for the duration of the thread so far.

 

[MookieRah]

No I ask you not to flame because it's impolite. I understand this isn't a popular theory but people do believe in it. By stating that my opinion is asking to be flamed you are insulting any smash boarder who believes it.

You didn't get my point, you are naive to think that by requesting people not to flame they will adhere to your words. This is the INTERNETS. I'm sorry if you honestly believe in people having self-control online, but that just isn't how it goes. People shouldn't freak out when someon gets flamed cause they express a vastly unpopular (in this case illogical and dated) opinion.

I just believe that since Sakurai has always believed that Smash should have a strong One player mode, he's going to put more attention to single player mode. So for him to do something like this isn't that farfetched. I think it is a cool idea for the dark red clouds to take over the sky in the form of Nintendos deadliest foes. Cloud symbolism is often used for this kind of thing in the same way shadows are.

Yes, clouds and shadows are cliche ways of symbolism (which is funny seeing how you say you are good at analyzing when this one specifically has been done to death); HOWEVER, this is a freeze frame from something that you otherwise wouldn't even notice outside the context of that one screen cap. Do you honestly know how time intensive it would be for them to make the clouds form into those figures? It's not an easy thing to do with 3D. So in the context of the clip, those clouds are seen for such a short time that virtually NOBODY would notice. It's not time efficient or cost effective to have purposely set the clouds up that way.

Also, for those who said the clouds are only there for 3 seconds, well the clouds are only visible in such a way as it was in that screen capture for 1 second at most, the clouds and the camera angle are changing too much as the clouds roll in to see the entirety of the formation.

The ONLY moment in which this theory had any sort of grounding (and even then it was shaky as hell) was prior to the release of the video, but that's old news at this point. It's so painfully obvious that the figures in the cloud were simply a happy accident.

 

[killbeast301]

I maintain as I always have that there is only Bowser, and ridly and M-hand are his claws reaching forward. That is my opinion.

 

[lethminite]

ok, 1st.
people have said that it's only 1 frame at the end of a shot of the harbinger.
what makes you think they haven't cut the shot short so as not to confirm ridley and ganon?
the fact that it's only one frame that the faces are visible for is fishy.

in the final version it is possible that the view is extended and the 3 faces get more and more clear, perhaps even turn and leer down at mario and kirby.
i can see that happening.

2nd,
some people claim that they can also see mewtwo/k.rool/game&watch(though i think the G&W was a joke) next to ganon, and maybe even masterhand in the center.

While a shot of just ganon, harbinger, bowser and ridley would work, i could also see a few frames later those clouds forming one of mewtwo/k.rool or dedede forming out of what we can see now along with masterhand, however i don't think it's clear enough.


i'd give this theory about the same credit as icon theory confirming G&W as playable. (off topic, i'd say icon theory 100% confirmed that 13 is G&W or unused)


is this a new enough way of looking at it to stop the flames?

 

[MookieRah]

what makes you think they haven't cut the shot short so as not to confirm ridley and ganon?

Because there is no reason to adjust the 3D sequence to allude to that. That and if you watch the video if they spent more time on the clouds then the Harbringer would be closer to Mario and Kirby. It would be more than a simple editing job.

Also, everyone is making a lot of assumptions about the storyline to SSE. Hell Ridley might even be in the game, but that doesn't necessarily make him part of the people who were the mastermind of the scheme. Besides, Ridley was never the main villain in the Metroid game, he was always Samus's rival. If anything they'd have some sort of representation of mother brain in the clouds or just another villain in general.

I'm all for speculation, but this is just made way to many leaps in logic to be taken seriously.

 

[lethminite]

Because there is no reason to adjust the 3D sequence to allude to that. That and if you watch the video if they spent more time on the clouds then the Harbringer would be closer to Mario and Kirby. It would be more than a simple editing job.

Also, everyone is making a lot of assumptions about the storyline to SSE. Hell Ridley might even be in the game, but that doesn't necessarily make him part of the people who were the mastermind of the scheme. Besides, Ridley was never the main villain in the Metroid game, he was always Samus's rival. If anything they'd have some sort of representation of mother brain in the clouds or just another villain in general.

I'm all for speculation, but this is just made way to many leaps in logic to be taken seriously.

watching it again, your right, an extended pan wouldn't work, the ship's distance is constant across the camera angles.
i still see the faces forming and don't think all 3 would appear at once unless there was something to it.

 

[brawlpro]

I don't like this theory, its whack and maybe they just made it for the hell of it.

 

[nindgod]

Tortimer groans at this theory

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Opinions for theories are warmly accepted, but opinions against theories are apparently frowned upon. >_>

 

[Gimpyfish62]

how dare you disagree with anyone, dont you know that there is no such thing as absolute truth and whatever works for one person might not work for you *suicide*

anyways, completely ridiculous statements aside, i agree with almost everything buzz has ever said

except for anything pro-young link

*stern looks*

 

[Dragon Master Luigi]

This proves nothing!! Its like saying Captain Falcon has 3 nipples!! It is nonsense!!

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I think I see Young Link in the clouds.