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The Cloud Theory (Thought exercise)

Sprigginz_Caldo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
110
Uhm, Bowser is OBVIOUSLY visible. People need to accept that. But for Ridley and Ganondorf, there could be some debating. When I first read the name of this thread, I was thinking, "Oh, no, not another idiot who wants a Final Fantasy character in Brawl".

This thread was written very well with a polite tone to it. I liked the pictures, and how the three clouds were circles and pointed out.

Nevermind, I see Ridley now. As for Ganondorf....still not catching it. I can see the form, but if I wasn't told who it was, it would take me a while to guess the correct answer.
 

poncho_mcshoe

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Feb 9, 2006
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124
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NB Canada
Because there is no reason to adjust the 3D sequence to allude to that. That and if you watch the video if they spent more time on the clouds then the Harbringer would be closer to Mario and Kirby. It would be more than a simple editing job.

Also, everyone is making a lot of assumptions about the storyline to SSE. Hell Ridley might even be in the game, but that doesn't necessarily make him part of the people who were the mastermind of the scheme. Besides, Ridley was never the main villain in the Metroid game, he was always Samus's rival. If anything they'd have some sort of representation of mother brain in the clouds or just another villain in general.

I'm all for speculation, but this is just made way to many leaps in logic to be taken seriously.
Rival is definitely not the right word for Ridley O_o
He's a villain.
 

gamelover15

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Las Vegas
I do see Bowser and Ridley, but fail to see Ganon x.x It looks like Bowser Jr. to me.

Good post. The clouds could be one of those little add-ins Sakurai does.
 

DaW00t

Smash Rookie
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Nov 3, 2007
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8


I see mickey at the very top, almost exact center. That means Sora is is!!!:laugh: just kidding, but in all seriousness I don't see ganondorf that much and bowser is easily the most recognizable
 

Homelessvagrant

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Opinions for theories are warmly accepted, but opinions against theories are apparently frowned upon. >_>
No there's nothing wrong with it, argue for your side. I don't mind that so many people oppose it, I knew that in the beggining when I made this thread.

Because there is no reason to adjust the 3D sequence to allude to that. That and if you watch the video if they spent more time on the clouds then the Harbringer would be closer to Mario and Kirby. It would be more than a simple editing job.

Also, everyone is making a lot of assumptions about the storyline to SSE. Hell Ridley might even be in the game, but that doesn't necessarily make him part of the people who were the mastermind of the scheme. Besides, Ridley was never the main villain in the Metroid game, he was always Samus's rival. If anything they'd have some sort of representation of mother brain in the clouds or just another villain in general.

I'm all for speculation, but this is just made way to many leaps in logic to be taken seriously.
I quite couldn't understand that myself, maybe it's an easter egg. :laugh:

You must not be a big Metroid fan. Ridley is the only reoccuring villain in the game. Also he's the one creditted for killing Samus's parents as well as being the space pirate leader. While he hasn't always been the final boss, I can argue the same thing about Dr. Eggman in the recent Sonic games. Ridley has a the biggest villain role in all the Metroid games thus far. Hoinestly I don't see why not being the final boss makes it so you can't be the main villain. It doesn't always happen this way. To have metroid Brain in the clouds is much like have having The Ark from SA2B. Mother Brain is nothing more then a central computer program that was under space pirate control. So in that essence Ridley was indirectly the final boss the first Mtroid games.

It all depends on your view of logic. You can have a very physical view based soley on facts or a abstract view based on percentiles, patterns, and human rationalized thinking. You can discredit the later though because that would be disrespect to an established person of the rennaisance era. Finally I'd like to thank you and Buzz for putting logic into your posts rather then just flaming. I don't mind that you don't agree with me but I'm happy that you gave reasons in why you didn't.
 

SuperDoodleMan

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Jun 4, 2003
Messages
792
I'm really on the fence about this. On the one hand, I can see Bowser and Ridley immediately. What are the odds that the two most recognizable shapes would both be villains of major Nintendo franchises? They must be astronomical, an impossible coincidence!

On the other hand, where Ganondorf is supposed to be, I see a ******** clown instead. Hmm...granted, Ganondorf's human face is much less recognizable than Bowser or Ridley's beastly ones, but the middle shape is just plain unrecognizable.

I used to be able to see either Master or Crazy hand (Crazy Hand actually had a more Crazy Handish position! 50/50 odds, but still a success) with enough effort. But now, no thanks to DaW00t, all I can see is Mickey Mouse.

Not just any Mickey Mouse, but some kind of weird Sin City Mickey Mouse, bulked up and jumping over a railing ready to pound someone into submission. My outlining actually makes it look worse, so look at the blank picture to see the true terror of Sin Mickey.

 

Mama

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May 21, 2007
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Wow. I never heard about this theory until now. I must say that its really really interesting. If it turns out true (which seems pretty likely) then that would have to be one of the coolest displays of omnipotent villian power I've ever seen.

It took me a while but I see Ganondorf now. If you guys don't see him yet I'll try to point him out. (the way I see him) the bottom of the would be his chin. He's looking outward like Bowser. The dark shadow in the middle would be his eye/brow and the back would be his hair a la TP.

Thats pretty cool. Also in DK and Diddy's Subspace Emissary video, when DK finally gets his bananas back, Bowser shows up. I doubt he'd be there to spread love and peace. I think that would support him being a storyline villain.
 

flyinfilipino

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I just had another doubt about this. In one of the Subspace videos at E4A, we saw Bowser about to scrap with DK and DK over a bunch of bananas (presumably). If that's the case, why's he doing that when him appearing in giant evil clouds would imply a much greater role?

And now that I look again, Bowser and Ridley may be the easiest to recognize, but they're not exactly very clear either. And if this is the best view we'll get of them, then I still attribute this to mind-trickz. But that's just my opinion.
 

Homelessvagrant

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I just had another doubt about this. In one of the Subspace videos at E4A, we saw Bowser about to scrap with DK and DK over a bunch of bananas (presumably). If that's the case, why's he doing that when him appearing in giant evil clouds would imply a much greater role?

And now that I look again, Bowser and Ridley may be the easiest to recognize, but they're not exactly very clear either. And if this is the best view we'll get of them, then I still attribute this to mind-trickz. But that's just my opinion.
I don't think Bowser is just stealing bananas. that seems unlike him, he steals the princess. I think there is much more into it than bananas.

 

Hejiru

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I think the villians are in the clouds on purpose, but I think it was just for dramatic effect, or maybe a small easter egg. "Hey look, Ridley!" But I don't believe it is any sort of hint or prophecy.
 

DonkeyPirate

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I think he is just gonna do some funky stuff with the bananas. Seriously though. I rememver this being a discusion when that SSE vid was first released and someone found like 4 villians in it. I forgot who the fourth was. Probably from Earthbound
 

Talendime

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Jul 6, 2007
Messages
559
God this is a ******** theory.

Please don't.




And as for this picture, I believe it 100%, it's not really farfetched at all. I don't know why people are thinking that.. I buy it.

I just can't see Ridley for some reason. Bowser and Ganondorf, yes, but I still can't find that Ridley.. Even though you circled where he was.
 

blooagga

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west coast
Well it's kind of a known fact that when you look at a set of clouds your imagination will create something. I think some one had their mind on brawl, looked at the clouds, OH LOOK BOWSER! showed this to everyone, caused them to see the clouds in the same way, creating a rumor. Though I find it hard to deny that that is bowser and masterhand.
 

Padô

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You guys forgot about master hand thats is in the middle of the cloud! If you could see well the MasterHand is a black smoke!
 

MookieRah

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You must not be a big Metroid fan. Ridley is the only reoccuring villain in the game. Also he's the one creditted for killing Samus's parents as well as being the space pirate leader.
Actually no, I'm quite an avid fan of it. I did choose a poor word for describing Ridley, but the point was this, he isn't the main villain. Ridley, while being a significant villain, isn't the biggest problem of any Metroid game. There is always something else going on that supercedes him. In the good old days it was mother brain, and most recently Prime. Ridley does seemingly create the bad situations in one way or another, but he ironically is always in the back seat of every Metroid game (well in the ones he appears in).
It all depends on your view of logic. You can have a very physical view based soley on facts or a abstract view based on percentiles, patterns, and human rationalized thinking.
Or you can have a normal view which is accepting to both. Most people don't think all one way or the other, in this case most people use both.
You can discredit the later though because that would be disrespect to an established person of the renaisance era.
What the hell are you referring there? How does that have anything to do with this argument? We are talking about whether or not Sakurai purposely put Bowser or Ridley in the clouds.
This thread was written very well with a polite tone to it. I liked the pictures, and how the three clouds were circles and pointed out.
I like how that was all done before in which case the OP just simply reworded it. I also like how he didn't do that picture and is only presenting us with a "what if" that was presented to the community months ago.

Bowser is the only character in the clouds that would be clear enough to draw any conclusions on, and even then it looks an awful lot like a T-rex to me. Ridley is definitely not clear and Ganon is definitely the most blurry. The thing is if they were really going to do that and were going for the effect it would be a bit more obvious. If it wasn't for that specific freeze frame, there wouldn't be anyone who actually noticed the faces in the cloud in the first place.

I'm surprised that nobody has argued that "well maybe Sakurai put that freezeframe so we COULD see it!" but even that is silly given that the freeze frame is in a spot after the clouds have all formed, so it's just a logical place to take a shot where everything is in the frame.

Now for the big guns:

Actually, after doing that it becomes pretty obvious that it's not bowser. I tried, I really tried, to follow the shapes of the clouds and make them form bowser as much as possible. There are A LOT of things wrong with the cloud interpretation. His horn is not where it should be. Apparently his cloud form has no hair. His mouth looks ********, and etc.

Ridley came out better than I thought; however it looks more like a mix between Ridley and the main villain of the Nightmare Before Christmas than Ridley.

All that said, the T-rex came out the best, which I think is funny.

In closing of this post, I'd like to state out that if you tried you could find several other characters in those clouds that have no relevance to the story whatsoever. Simply put, it's CLOUDS. They are complex shapes with a lot of value, and if you try to find something in them you will. In this case people found what they were wanting to.
 

shadenexus18

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Hmmm.....so the purple like miasma clouds in the sky confirm Ganon and Ridley, yes?

Because, I can so see them with my 20/20 vision!
 

lethminite

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
163
mookierah, your angle of bowser is right off.
bowser is being looked at from under his chin, up, you've overlaid the face at right angles to him. the part of his collar is the bottom, not the side, it's also 3 studs not 2, and is a little further down.
his nose ends right where you have clipped the image.

i'm not too familiar with ridley, but i'm fairly sure that his mouth is open, and his jaw extends under the fence, the top of his face is further back then the bottom, then again, a 2D image like you've done can't really show that, so if you intended that sorry.

i'd try and make one too, but i'm not much of an artist. i did do an outline though before.

EDIT: good job trying.
the fact so many can't see it, is making me think it might not be there, but i can see so much detail in it that it's hard to deny.

EDIT2: infact

woops. forgot the end of the lip line, the tooth is just flying in mid mouth.
 

Nybb

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Aug 16, 2007
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Victoria, BC
So I went through the last few pages and couldn't find an answer to this question:

Why do people still take this idea seriously? Didn't the actual video clip of this scene from like months ago destroy this theory completely since it was obvious that there were no intentional faces?
 

lethminite

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Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
163
So I went through the last few pages and couldn't find an answer to this question:

Why do people still take this idea seriously? Didn't the actual video clip of this scene from like months ago destroy this theory completely since it was obvious that there were no intentional faces?
in what way does it show there are no intentional faces, it shows there is not a large focus on the faces, not that they are not meant to be there.
 

Ban Heim

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Chicago
So I went through the last few pages and couldn't find an answer to this question:

Why do people still take this idea seriously? Didn't the actual video clip of this scene from like months ago destroy this theory completely since it was obvious that there were no intentional faces?
Yeah, but people are stubborn and ********. So yeah, this theory will be around for a while.

Funny thing is, if these characters make it into Brawl, people will be going "lolz, i told u i was rite" even though it'll be a coincidence.
 

SuperDoodleMan

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Jun 4, 2003
Messages
792
It's possible the clip is longer in the final game. Even if only by half a second, the faces could become much more recognizable, enough so to justify cutting it short for spoiler reasons.

If it's proven that the clip we've seen is all there is, I'd disbelieve in this theory right away. But I doubt that will be possible until the game comes out.

Meanwhile, I managed to see a headless tony hawk between "Ganondorf" and "Master Hand".
 

Sandwich

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What would be the face on the left of Bowser and to the right of Ganon in this proposed theory, again?
 

Nybb

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lethminite said:
Originally Posted by Nybb View Post
So I went through the last few pages and couldn't find an answer to this question:

Why do people still take this idea seriously? Didn't the actual video clip of this scene from like months ago destroy this theory completely since it was obvious that there were no intentional faces?
in what way does it show there are no intentional faces, it shows there is not a large focus on the faces, not that they are not meant to be there.
Well, the movie we saw of this scene showed the exact time from which this picture was taken, and there were no discernible faces for more than the .02 seconds during which the infamous screenshot was taken. There is no focus on the clouds at all. If they did something cool like put faces in the clouds, they'd probably show them off for at least enough time for us to recognize them.
 

OddCrow

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does no one see Waluigi right here?




I can see his hat, eyes, nose, mouth, and 'stache
 

inside

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Wow, you make a very good point, I totally see bowser and Ridley shaped in the clouds, but I'm kind of skeptical about Ganondorf.
 

Homelessvagrant

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Actually no, I'm quite an avid fan of it. I did choose a poor word for describing Ridley, but the point was this, he isn't the main villain. Ridley, while being a significant villain, isn't the biggest problem of any Metroid game. There is always something else going on that supercedes him. In the good old days it was mother brain, and most recently Prime. Ridley does seemingly create the bad situations in one way or another, but he ironically is always in the back seat of every Metroid game (well in the ones he appears in).
And that can be debated. Dark Samus may be viewed as the main villain of the prim series but is he the main villain of the series as whole? The same with Mother brain.

Or you can have a normal view which is accepting to both. Most people don't think all one way or the other, in this case most people use both.
Normal? And I'm assuming that's anything you think. Normal is defined as the popular view of the community and time after time the majority have been proven wrong.


I like how that was all done before in which case the OP just simply reworded it. I also like how he didn't do that picture and is only presenting us with a "what if" that was presented to the community months ago.
I never said I created this theory. I even said it ws an old theory. However ther isn't a thread for it and I thought I might as well make one. And I agree I put a what if on this thread but only because I know as an individual that there is a good possibility that it's not real. However I feel that those who believe in this theory aren't as stupid as people think and felt it right therefore to defend this view.

Bowser is the only character in the clouds that would be clear enough to draw any conclusions on, and even then it looks an awful lot like a T-rex to me. Ridley is definitely not clear and Ganon is definitely the most blurry. The thing is if they were really going to do that and were going for the effect it would be a bit more obvious. If it wasn't for that specific freeze frame, there wouldn't be anyone who actually noticed the faces in the cloud in the first place.
Bowser looking like a T-Rex, say it isn't so :laugh:

Well you could say that, but since that's not what happened we'll never know will we? I say that's wrong though knowing how smash obsessed and observant smash boarders are. But again, it would be stupid and a waste of time to argue about this point.

I'm surprised that nobody has argued that "well maybe Sakurai put that freezeframe so we COULD see it!" but even that is silly given that the freeze frame is in a spot after the clouds have all formed, so it's just a logical place to take a shot where everything is in the frame.
okay, now your arguing points that have not been made....okay as long as it makes you happy :ohwell:

Now for the big guns:

Actually, after doing that it becomes pretty obvious that it's not bowser. I tried, I really tried, to follow the shapes of the clouds and make them form bowser as much as possible. There are A LOT of things wrong with the cloud interpretation. His horn is not where it should be. Apparently his cloud form has no hair. His mouth looks ********, and etc.

Ridley came out better than I thought; however it looks more like a mix between Ridley and the main villain of the Nightmare Before Christmas than Ridley.

All that said, the T-rex came out the best, which I think is funny.

In closing of this post, I'd like to state out that if you tried you could find several other characters in those clouds that have no relevance to the story whatsoever. Simply put, it's CLOUDS. They are complex shapes with a lot of value, and if you try to find something in them you will. In this case people found what they were wanting to.
No offense but this was a weak argument.

1)You must have just drawn a T-rex and then copy and pasted it were it fit best because it does not fit. I think you didn't stay well on the lines either.

2) Clouds allusions are only suppose to make a general depiction of the character (enough to recongnize as a character by itself, whixh is why you don't see the shadowingof the characters body. You're suppose to be able to recongnize the horns are there. When someone looks at the clouds in the during gameplay he won't be like "Zomg the horn is slightly higher then it should be, that can't be Bowser"

3) You said that making clouds form into any specific object takes alot of technology so they can't be super specific by your definitioin. However making a general depiction of the characters is no where near that dificult as it would be.

4) Clouds are complex and the technology required is advanced but 4 seconds of such value is not that hard.



I did this on microsoft paint so it might not be the best...but still you get the point.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know it seems stupid (from your side of things) for Sakurai to purposely take his time for something that seems so insignificant but given the time Sakurai's team has had on this game (remember that the real time animation team is seperate from the rest) and the shear numbers it oisn't to illogical. People would think putting in a stage editor would have been stupid and to much back in the day. I think by saying they don't have time or technology for this project is like giving discredit to the team because we don't know the overll size of the team or what they are fully capable of.

BTW the last paragraph isn't forwarded to you but someone else who made the argument. Unfortunately I can't find his post.
 

flyinfilipino

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I know it seems stupid (from your side of things) for Sakurai to purposely take his time for something that seems so insignificant but given the time Sakurai's team has had on this game (remember that the real time animation team is seperate from the rest) and the shear numbers it oisn't to illogical. People would think putting in a stage editor would have been stupid and to much back in the day. I think by saying they don't have time or technology for this project is like giving discredit to the team because we don't know the overll size of the team or what they are fully capable of.
Sure it's technologically possible to put Bowser and friends in the clouds, but don't you think that if it was intentionally what they were going for here, it'd at least be a little more obvious? If anything, you're discrediting the team (moviemakers) for not being able to make the characters stand out. /my opinion
 

Spellman

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Sep 18, 2007
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Here is my take and illustration of the formations that I see.



Well, the picture pretty much sums up what I had to say about it. I'm not betting money on this all meaning anything, but I certainly do see where the faces are.
 
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