Q&A The Bowser Questions and Advice Thread

[HideousBeing]

Pardon the double post.
Hey Gimpy, do you believe that if matches in tournaments were played in Lightning mode, that Bowser would perform better or worse than usual? He would be faster, sure, but so would the fast characters.
... I dunno, it's hard to imagine who would be more benefited from that.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

that is a ridiculous question

 

[N1c2k3]

Lmfao! Random FloppyFish noob Q's ftfreakinw. Tony T's too goot! When are we gonna smash again, man? Take care dude....

 

[KingJiggyWiggy]

Hey Gimpyfish. In the matchups thread Boozer and Yagami were talking about M2's and Bowser's popularity level. Boozer's main argument is the Clown Cars etc. while Yagami speaks of the Pokemon being outside of the ball. How do I beat M2 in this case?

 

[Aesir]

In teams Bowser appears to be like a big wall and ****.

so my question is, does bowser fair well in teams?

 

[HideousBeing]

In teams Bowser appears to be like a big wall and ****.

so my question is, does bowser fair well in teams?

Haha, in my experience, no. Gimpy you didn't answer my question!

Anyway, I have another. Does not L-cancelling the dair delay the final hit when landing? Or is there nothing to gain from that?

 

[misterbee180]

you mean is there nothing to gain from l-cancelling a dair? Becides the fact that it's twice as fast to get up out of it than if you didn't? As far as i know l-cancelling doesn't delay anything. It just makes it so that the final hit will act as a shield for your bowser while he quickly gets up w/ the l-cancel.

 

[HideousBeing]

Actually, anyone with a decent grab speed should be able to get you after a L-cancelled dair in range. And to elaborate, I mean, "or do you gain nothing from not L-cancelling the dair because it wouldn't delay the final hit?"

 

[misterbee180]

well as far as i know i've not seen a difference in the delay of the dair when you l-cancel. If there is any it's not by a signifigant amount

 

[HideousBeing]

LOL, welcome to smashboards where one frame difference is a significant amount.

 

[-Wolfy-]

well as far as i know i've not seen a difference in the delay of the dair when you l-cancel. If there is any it's not by a signifigant amount

This makes me all warm inside.
Easily the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
Saying l-canceling with Bowser, or anyone for that matter,
is the same as if you said breathing is unimportant. Too good.

Hey bud, if you don't l-cancel with Bowser against a halfw3ay decent player you'll be shield grabbed or jsut punished.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

He didn't say he doesn't l-cancel, he said he didn't notice a difference with the dair (there is one, and big enough to make a diference).

 

[KevinM]

He's talking about the shockwave afterwards folks, when you Dair there is a shockwave hit box at the end and what he is saying is that he doesn't notice a difference in the timing of the shockwave l-canceled or not. He's not saying he doesn't notice a difference L-canceling the D-air

 

[Inferno_blaze]

There's a shockwave?

Thanks for clearing up the confusion anyways Kevin.

 

[misterbee180]

Yea, thanks kevin. That is what i meant. I'm glad i was able to make you warm inside for a little while though wolveriene... Kinda like i made your mama feel last night. This is just a JOKE btw but the opportunity to say it was just too great to pass up.

 

[KevinM]

There's a shockwave?

Thanks for clearing up the confusion anyways Kevin.

Yeah when you D-air theres one last hitbox when he hits the ground.

 

[-Wolfy-]

It's alright. I was hasty and jumped all over you...
JUST LIKE I JUMPED ALL OVER YOUR MOM!
heh...counter-mamajoked.
No worries. I assume it's the same as pikachu's dair, which if you l cancel it has no knockback because of the final hitbox, but if you don't its got instantaneous knockback.

 

[Xanthyr]

First off, I'm Xanthyr, nice to meet you. I've been lurking this forum for a few months now and just recently started to raise my own ferociously kute boozer.

Is there any sort of actual Bowser combos, other than the infamous Gimpyfish combo?

I sat down and came out with a few cool ideas, but I'd like the masterful Bowser Review Board to look it over and flame me accordingly.

This one is just pure flash and bragging rights. It doesn't do much, but if you do it at high enough damage, you can follow up with a K.O. move, because it places them in a vulnerable position. (Above you.)

Note: I'll edit later to include the rest of the applicable characters. I didn't write it down. Also, the moves in the parenthesis are opportunities. If the enemy fails to DI or has a heavy character, use these to tack on some extra damage.

Name: "Boozer Dunk"
Applicable Characters: Samus, D.K., Mewtwo, Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Marth, Pickachu, Pichu, Bowser,(more?)
Average Damage: 21-28%
Percent restrictions: None, done at any damage level.
Moves used in sequence: Uthrow+SH/jump+Klaw+(Uair)

Execution:

Get a hold on the enemy. Immediately Uthrow to confuse DI(No DI is what I had). Jump up and Klaw them as then enter tumble. As soon as you grab them, slam the control stick down while Bowser is still in mid-air. He will perform a dunking motion and the enemy will be thrown down, but as soon as Bowser lets go, they will collide with the air as if it were the ground and bounce up. Depending on the fall speed, percentage, and DI of the enemy, you can follow up with an immediate Uair, and that is just enough to K.O.

A HUGE NOTE:This takes a lot of getting used to, for the characters have different falling speeds. Each character needs to be mastered in turn for it to be effective, otherwise you just graze the enemy with your klaw after the uthrow. You might even miss completely and get punished. A small variation of this is that if your enemy is at a high enough percentage, a graze will kill them.


So, yeah, it's definitely something fun to test out if you're bored. By no means is it practical, Bowser can just hit once or twice to get the same damage, however, it's a surprise factor, and you can mindgame with it too.

Some characters are much easier to grab this way than the others. Luigi, Mario, Dr. Mario and Mewtwo are my main examples. If I remember right, what you do is uthrow, and spam jump, so you double jump right away, but that is usually just enough to get the klaw to grab. Experiment, it's the main key. D.K., Bowser, and Samus are pretty easy to grab. One or two minutes and you have the feeling down.



This next one doesn't really deserve a name. it's just you screwing them up mercilessly.

Name: "Mincer"
Applicable Characters: All except floaties
Average Damage: 40-50%
Percent Restrictions: 0% for full effect. Can be done to fastfallers even with damage.
Moves used in sequence: Dsmash+Usmash+(Usmash)+Utilt+(Utilt) OR Dsmash+Usmash+Utilt+WQ+SH+Fair/Bair/Nair

Execution:

This is much much easier compared to the Boozer Dunk; all it requires is some timing.. It's simple! All you do is as follows: Get your fresh enemy(Near no damage) and Dsmash, then Usmash, then depending on what you want, continue with one of the three things:

1.another Usmash and Utilts
2.Straight to one or two Utilts
3.Utilt, Wavequake either way, and do a nair, fair or bair.


NOTE: If you have the right timing, you'll hit them before they touch the ground. Timing is important, because if you just spam the command, it won't come out at the required speed and the enemy can tech away. Directly when Bowser stops his Dsmash spin (Try to guess it if you need to) you Usmash, and it should happen nearly instantly that the Dsmash stops.

Those are the things I thought were pretty cool and I wanted to share with you all. The second one is pretty straightforward, probably doesn't need to be called a combo, just common sense.


I also have a few questions.

1. It appears that I have the first version of the game, with Flame Cancel. Is that version tournament legal?

2. What sort of mindgames or concepts should one be commonly using in Bowser gameplay?

3. Were my ideas at least entertaining to think about? Or do they actually hold merit?

 

[ohpistachios]

a coupla problems with your combos:

no point really in u-throwing right away after a grab. if they know how to DI and which way to DI, they will do it regardless of whether you throw right away or not - the uthrow lasts too long for you to catch them off guard.

it's pretty near impossible to combo out of a uthrow against most characters. if they DI improperly, you can get something off against a fast faller at lower percentages, but no floatier character should be able to be comboed out of a uthrow. everyone can jump or do something else to get out of it. the same is the case with the klaw f-throw.

second combo is pretty sweet, but it's pretty standard too. i like how you named it tho . (keep in mind they can very easily escape this combo with DI too).

that said, bowser DOES have some combos (pretty much only on fastfallers), but all of them rely on bad DI. the moves that bowser CAN typically combo out of (w/ bad DI) are klaw fthrow, dsmash, usmash, uair, utilt, and dash attack. yeah.. basically just watch gimpy videos to see those in action.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

search "Gimpyfish north hollywood" on youtube XD

 

[Xanthyr]

a coupla problems with your combos:

no point really in u-throwing right away after a grab. if they know how to DI and which way to DI, they will do it regardless of whether you throw right away or not - the uthrow lasts too long for you to catch them off guard.

it's pretty near impossible to combo out of a uthrow against most characters. if they DI improperly, you can get something off against a fast faller at lower percentages, but no floatier character should be able to be comboed out of a uthrow. everyone can jump or do something else to get out of it. the same is the case with the klaw f-throw.

second combo is pretty sweet, but it's pretty standard too. i like how you named it tho . (keep in mind they can very easily escape this combo with DI too).

that said, bowser DOES have some combos (pretty much only on fastfallers), but all of them rely on bad DI. the moves that bowser CAN typically combo out of (w/ bad DI) are klaw fthrow, dsmash, usmash, uair, utilt, and dash attack. yeah.. basically just watch gimpy videos to see those in action.

Yeah, I figured the first one would be too complex to use. However, I'm sure it'd be rocking house and making people yell your name if you do a crazy move like the dunk. I've never read or seen anything like it (Probably for a reason). Perhaps you can mindgame the person into DI'in' where you want. Perhaps use the same setup to tag them with a dashed Uair/tilt or fair So that the next time that happens they'll DI to avoid a fair, which would to DI down and away, so you can dash in with whatever may have you and keep them on their toes. I say just practice it by yourself, it really is enjoyable nailing that move, even if it's in training mode. I still think that the setup will happen one day, so keep it in mind, because as you said, combos with Bowser rely on opponent error.

I mean, come on, it's such a cool move I encourage you to play with it, even if it's nigh impossible to pull off. It'll be my signature trick, just you wait =P


EDIT:

Oh, yeah. Could someone answer the other questions?

Thank you.

 

[FaceFaceMcFace]

1. Flame cancelling is tournament-legal. Why would they ban something that makes Bowser just a little bit kuter?

2. Not really a mindgame, but the biggest thing you need to keep in mind as Bowser is spacing. Keep that in mind and the other stuff should come to you with time.

3.While they do rely largely on bad DI, those are decent combos and I know I have pulled them off (or some very similar stuff) on people that have no idea how to fight Bowser.

 

[-Wolfy-]

For the spacing aspect, just think of Bowser's advantages in comparison with your foes advantages. If you are playing a projectile abusing character, you've got two main options. You can close the distance, put pressure on them, and keep them too close to use the projectiles. The other thing you can do is be patient, dance in and out of their range, but keep an advantageous position, so that you can easily maneuver around the projectiles, or be in a place where if they appoach they have to be pretty obvious with their approach. I.E. try and stay under a platformwhen you take an ooponent to Dream Land or Battlefield, because this is an advantageous position for Bowser. Not only does it limit your opponent by requiring them to come at you straight on and not from above, but it leaves you ready to set up some sick comboing. If you can Uthrow or utilt and get them up to the above platform, even if they tech they are likely to take at least one of your uairs(or you could potentially utilt/usmash at levels with lower platforms like PKMN Stadium or FoD or something) and tack on some nice damage. This is jsut an example, but don't just play like a gamer, play like a tactitian. Art of War mindgames son!

 

[KevinM]

Mindgames is a stupid concept <_<

and unfortunately Xanthyr a lot of those moves and combo's don't work without terrible DI

 

[Xanthyr]

Haha, alright then. I appreciate you guys helpin' me out.

Mindgames is a stupid concept <_<

Why is that?

And what qualifies as a mindgame? Is it simply having the enemy move into the position you want them to through calculated behavior?

 

[-Wolfy-]

You need to check out sirlins guide. I'll edit with the link. The stuff is meant for street fighter or whatever, but the mental aspect is the same. You condition your opponent to respond a certain way to a certain action, and then you feign the action so they are open. But that's not the cut and dry answer really. Mindgames are what you make em.

Sirlin's guide on deception

Sirlin's guide to conditioned responses

The sick combo Gimpy referenced. Xanthyr, take notes

 

[Xanthyr]

I tried posting earlier but the site was acting up =/

I loved the Yomi Layer 3 article. I had always thought that, it's well versed within me, I just never read it anywhere else until now. The deception was a good one too. Those confirmed some things I've been thinking, so that should help a bit.

Also, that Klawtacular display of Boozer affection was priceless!

 

[KevinM]

I just dislike the general over usage of the word mindgames and think mindgames is a stupid concept

 

[Xanthyr]

Fair enough, I understand what you mean. I've read "mindgames" more than "the" on these boards sometimes. I was just asking what sort of behaviors do you often see in other peoples' games, and how you utilize those patterns?

If you don't pay attention to that and you just rush the guy fiercely, that works too. I'm just makin' conversation.

 

[-Wolfy-]

It's got to be part of how you play. I mean, there will be people who can just rush straight in with fairs or whatever, and they can do well with it, but once you start playing against a character that won't permit a frontal attack, like a Marth or something with a good range, that's when you can't rely on your old tricks to get you through, you need to adapt, or find a way to get your fairs to work. Mindgames is overused, and is applied to too big of a concept. Some people do it instinctively, which is why they seem unimportant when you break them down sometimes.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

The only thing I don't like about mindgames is the way people apply the term to smash, it's not something made up for smash but a lot of people refer to it as some specific technique, which is just silly. The way I see it, it's just outpsyching your opponent, leading them into a trap or causing them to do something they shouldn't, often by reading ahead what they will do.

 

[-Wolfy-]

Agreed one hundred percent. On the Tell Gimpy What To Look for thread, it took everything I had to not scream when someone asked him to see if mindgames were in Brawl.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

MINDGAMES SON

yeayuhz

i should change my line from "Master of Bowser" to "Master of Mindgames"

 

[Xanthyr]

I feel like I have made the wrong impression in my posts. I wasn't looking for a "Up-B out of shield SH flame cancel fair fsmash = #1best-awesome-mindgame-everlololol" I was just making small talk. I understand reading your opponent and using what you have to make what you want is all that there is to it.

 

[misterbee180]

Wow, those readings posted are really good. Kinda makes me feel a little more upper tier now that i understand the mindset of a player who plays with that kind of intelect and strategy.

On the other hand, gimpy, I am having some serous problems vs my friends jigglypuff. He loves to pull that wall of death or what ever it's called on me and when i try to get inbetween the kicks i end up being like a second late and getting hit myself. You have any advice on ways to take advantage of the fact that he loves bairing all day?

 

[-Wolfy-]

Xanthyr, noones scolding you for it. It's good conversation.

And Gimpy, I've probably watched almsot all of your videos, and I'd say that Master of Mindgames wouldn't too out there.

Agh, I hate jigglypuffs. This one is better left to Gimpy, as I usually do what I do with any character that will dominate me if I'm even with them horizontally, or above them. Spacing, ftilts and utilts, counterpick to somewhere like Yoshis story or Battlefield for that one and try and keep jiggs above you, and just abuse the range of Bowsers moves like the u air, u tilt, usmash, and if jiggs for some reason lands right above you, you can probably use the huge hitbox on the fair to get a hit in if you aren't feeling the other options.

But like I said, that's how I would handle it, but this is better left to Gimpy or the other Bowser pros creeping around these parts XD

 

[KevinM]

I feel like I have made the wrong impression in my posts. I wasn't looking for a "Up-B out of shield SH flame cancel fair fsmash = #1best-awesome-mindgame-everlololol" I was just making small talk. I understand reading your opponent and using what you have to make what you want is all that there is to it.

Hey no worries.. its just a lot of times people are like

Wow such and such player has great mindgames

or blames a loss against like say my bowser because of mindgames

when in reality.. I or another player am just playing smarter and out playing them.

 

[Xanthyr]

or blames a loss against like say my bowser because of mindgames.

That's sort of silly to say. If you lose to your opponent, isn't 100% of the cause of loss "mindgames" or, outthinking the enemy? Unless your controller breaks and it makes you run off the side of the stage the entire match.


"Aww man, I lost, but only because you're better than me" is what it says to me.

 

[-Wolfy-]

I agree with KEvinM, but I also have mixed feelings. It seems like we're saynig the same exact thing, you jsut hate it when people bundle it all into a scapegoat, Mindgames. So instead of saying wow KevinM, you're a much better player than me, they say wow i got mindgames'd?
I understand. And like Xanthyr says, playing smart is part of it, and jsut being naturally good is too.

P.S. Go Sox XD
I lived in boston till I moved to Ohio.

 

[misterbee180]

man i cant believe the sox spanked the rocks hard.

On another note, your opponant blaiming a loss on mindgames is just sort of saying that you are thinking on a level above his train of thought. So in a since what he's saying is that he lost beause his strategy of play was below yours. All this, in a since, is sort of a way of excaping the fact of admitting someone's better because later they can go on to say, if your mindgames wern't so good, if you wern't countering what I was doing, I would have won. Which is total bs cause theres no reason to leave any room for argument like this.

Man i feel really stupid talking about mindgames as if it's its own aspect in ssbm... like wavedashing or something...