The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!

[Rutger]

I don't think I've ever fought a Makoto in BBCP.

*checks wiki*

Wow, am I reading this right, she doesn't have any standing overhead normals? Can 6B really be blocked high or low?

She gets a crouching combo with 6b now, that's not really a nerf at all. She'll probably be able to get a combo off of j.2c CH now, and black hole was basically not changed at all. It's sliiiightly harder to hit with now, that's basically it. and there's an OD version now, so I can't wait for that to do 4k raw.

only real nerfs are graviton activate and gatlings/combo rate. She'll still be easily top tier.

oh, and teleport. No more auto crossups from across the screen.

6B can only be used after 5/2As now, and it's startup is very easy to react to. I don't really know about it crouching, maybe if there's already a graviton set up the opponent will not be too far to get a good combo from 5C > 2C(maybe comboing into 22A will work the same?). It's not like her 6B combos are bad now or anything, so I don't know if it would change much.

Teleport was nerfed, if you are standing over a graviton then Kokonoe will appear in front of you(maybe not if the graviton is close to Koko? hard to tell on that). I would have liked to keep the cross up but lose the startup invincibility, keep it kind of like Chipp, oh well.

I don't know what to think about the Black Hole yet. The question is can she still get stupidly good damage from it?

Yeah, she's still going to be good, her damage isn't really getting hit much, and her neutral will still be good(thank you Arcsys), but she's going to be much more reasonable. I'd be surprised if she is still the best character.

Meanwhile Tao going to be pretty much the same. :3

 

[Minato]

I disagree. Seeing some Kokonoe changes that really add up.

Combo rate means less damage which is fair. 6B change is going to be easily punishable on startup. Force crouch means nothing really unless you got some fireball setup going on, but that's not really too hard to see.

J2C change is a nerf. She lost some combos now because of not having that soft knockdown change. I'm picturing the startup to arc like Platinum's pan which isn't great.

Black Hole got nerfed. She lost her Black Hole setups since it'll appear offscreen now if you're too close to the corner.

jC change and the 6B nerfs makes her mixup game a lot less scary. Runaway game seems weakened too.

She's not nerfed to the ground, but I'm still expecting this to not be the full list.

Edit: Also how's OD Black Hole going to be good? You waste a lot of potential OD time and there's no guaranteed Black Hole setup with the new change.

 

[Zankoku]

I thought you could pretty much immediately emergency tech the knockdown of j.2C, even on Fatal Counter. She had valid combos from that?

 

[Spelt]

You can do a lot off of force crouch. 2c > 6c or 2c > 4d stuff. you have a few options, which is more than a lot of characters can say about their grounded overheads. usually the setup into 6b was already 2a > 6b, so there's basically no change. 5c/2c > 6b made it less mashable but easily pushed you too far away to get an optimal combo.

I'm sure there'll be new ways to use j.2c in combos. it just works differently. and now there's not even SMP on it. because she clearly needed MORE combo options...

All you have to do for black hole now is back up slightly. general 5c>22b setup already pushed you most of the way out, and if it's just barely off screen i'm sure it'll still work.

forgot about j.c, that's a big change, but also necessary.



Her gravitons are still OP without activate. the push effect lasts way too long, and can easily box someone in. Graviton gauge changes are pointless. no reasons to increase the usage if you're going to make it recharge faster, especially since it already recharged ridiculously fast.

She still has hands down the best AA in the game, as well as a really good low/throw invul 6c, a 5c/j.c which can negate basically any projectile.

ridiculously long range 3c that's next to impossible to punish.

5a that hits crouchers, low 2a, super good air to air/air to ground j.a and j.b.

etc etc

 

[Minato]

I thought you could pretty much immediately emergency tech the knockdown of j.2C, even on Fatal Counter. She had valid combos from that?

Air combos involving j.2C. Not on grounded opponents.

 

[Minato]

You can do a lot off of force crouch. 2c > 6c or 2c > 4d stuff. you have a few options, which is more than a lot of characters can say about their grounded overheads. usually the setup into 6b was already 2a > 6b, so there's basically no change. 5c/2c > 6b made it less mashable but easily pushed you too far away to get an optimal combo.

I'm sure there'll be new ways to use j.2c in combos. it just works differently.

All you have to do for black hole now is back up slightly. general 5c>22b setup already pushed you most of the way out, and if it's just barely off screen i'm sure it'll still work.

forgot about j.c, that's a big change, but also necessary.

I see. I misread on uncharged doing force crouch. The change on 6B gatling changes (and her j.C change) means there's no threat for any mixups. That's the weakness of it.

And yes, j2C combos will be different and it depends on how the final version is. But depending on the change, a lot of conversions might be gone now. It's a wait and see. With the Black Hole change, I'm still firm in believing setups are gone.

 

[Spelt]

also if that's her only gatling change, then they're still stupid freeform. 2c > 6a? Are you kidding me? Who the **** thought that was a good idea?


But yeah, all of this is obviously subject to change/meta game development. I don't see her being any lower than high tier, at worst, though.

I think this is the final list of changes though, they might make a few small adjustments here and there pre-release, but I don't expect any more.


Also there might be some pivotal changes to frame data that we're not seeing. Kokonoe's backdash will probably get nerfed (along with some other characters) which will be a pretty substantial change.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'm curious on how the Kokonoe changes wind up panning out, though...I'd still like Black Hole to be blockable, lol. As for Noel...the Muzzle Flitter nerf makes me a bit sad, but other than that it's like...she's still the same and my combos will still work? So, I'm not sure what to think right now.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm sorry, but have you ever tried blocking gravity itself? Just doesn't work out in your favor.

 

[Minato]

Stealth nerfs and buffs seem to exist. Kokonoe can't 236A > 5A anymore along with other things.

 

[Rutger]

That's unfortunate. Though I honestly don't mind damage nerfs, but it bugs me that they want to take more away from her neutral game.

I'm still not expecting her to be awful, but I am a little concerned seeing the core of her gameplan getting hit.
Unfortunately I will have to wait until arcades get the patch before I can find out how it will all turn out. :/

 

[LivewiresXe]

It's alright, all we have to do now is enjoy people referencing other characters as "ridiculous BS" as a result. It's the nature of these things of course.

 

[Zankoku]

Man I can't wait for the patch to hit, it would've made all the difference in the world against a Hakumen last night.
Instead of dying to airthrow > ODC > 5C, I would've just died from getting airthrown for 1600 damage.

In all seriousness, re-reading the patch notes is making me wonder if they've universally nerfed average combo damage across the board...

 

[Minato]

That's unfortunate. Though I honestly don't mind damage nerfs, but it bugs me that they want to take more away from her neutral game.

I'm still not expecting her to be awful, but I am a little concerned seeing the core of her gameplan getting hit.
Unfortunately I will have to wait until arcades get the patch before I can find out how it will all turn out. :/

I think it hurts her corner and oki game quite a bit.
Makes me wonder how her corner combos will go now.

 

[Rutger]

I think it hurts her corner and oki game quite a bit.
Makes me wonder how her corner combos will go now.

Yeah, it does hurt. Grounded 6B will not combo into 22A either, I don't know how her combos will go, but it's not looking good.

I wouldn't mind that so much though if they just went ahead and made Kokonoe the god of the neutral game like she is clearly supposed to be, but then they go and make graviton teleport drop her in front of the opponent in most situations and give landing recovery to j.2C(no idea how it rising will affect things other than not letting her use it as an IOH.)

I can already see the Mu matchup being an awful wall of D x n, unless Arcsys decides to be kind and remove that silly "fireball disappears on block" thing. :/

 

[Zankoku]

Kokonoe's fireball disappears when she blocks?

 

[Minato]

I'll miss old j2C. That move was so good. I'm going to have to alter combos now since you can't do jC > j2C whiff combos anymore. Same goes for some of her crouching midscreen combos. Kokonoe's going to hope that opponents are crouching if she wants good damage in most cases. And considering all she has is her crappy 6B, I dunno. Getting tagged low isn't that scary now. If 6B happens to land, she should at least have 6B > 5C > 6C route available in the new version.

Kokonoe's fireball disappears when she blocks?

Normal fireball does iirc.

 

[Rutger]

Yeah, unless it's the super fireball, that doesn't disappear even if she gets hit.

Getting tagged low isn't that scary now. If 6B happens to land, she should at least have 6B > 5C > 6C route available in the new version.

I didn't think of that, it does sound good. Too bad 6B is going to be really bad.

 

[Minato]

The way I wish Kokonoe was fixed would be to make Black Hole's hitbox smaller, make Kokonoe vulnerable to CAs during Black Hole, nerf 22B's damage as a starter, make it disappear on block, make graviton gauge recover slower, 5C has more recovery and less CH time, less active frames on 22B to avoid a strong blockstring setup, remove unnecessary gatlings, and extend CH state on teleport recovery.

Kokonoe's neutral was definitely way too strong in the console version. Manipulating the opponent's spacing was really dumb, so I'm happy there's no hitbox after activating outside of combos. 22B seemed to not get changed though :/

 

[Rutger]

22B is a trap though, having it disappear on block would take away one of the main reasons it exists.

Graviton activate hitbox was too good, I'll admit that it needed to go, but 22B should not change(I hear it's going to have more recharge time? I guess that's okay.) especially now that her pressure and mixups are gone.

 

[Zankoku]

All things considered, I'm pretty sure her Black Hole as it is now wouldn't be nearly as complained about if it had poor or even average proration value. Getting an extra 2-3k damage for 50 meter in the corner doesn't sound THAT unreasonable. It actually has no proration at all right now lol.

Also not too sure on exactly what kind of character Kokonoe is supposed to be.... for the time being, she has excellent neutral for the purposes of both approach and keep-away, but also has normals with range/frame data that rival most strong pressure-based characters, along with an above average backstep and a somewhat okay reversal in teleport as far as escaping pressure goes.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Yeah, I can agree with that assessment and that if it just added 2k to a combo for 50 meter it really wouldn't be seen as that much of an issue. I do say though, the "projectiles disappear on hit" thing has actually gotten me out of a couple of bad situations before so I'd have been a little down if it went.

 

[Minato]

22B basically ruined neutral game for characters. Stick one on the field against Bullet and she's done. Kokonoe gets time for fireball and graviton. Then activate to push them into 22B and teleport if you wanted to swap sides. If they decide to get close to trigger the trap, you can preemptively 3C so they're forced to block 22B, then start pressure. It's just too strong of a tool for neutral.

I'm up for matches in a half hour btw. I really need to get some practice.

 

[Zankoku]

Yeah, but Bullet deserves everything that ever happens to her. She can take it.

 

[Rutger]

Also not too sure on exactly what kind of character Kokonoe is supposed to be.... for the time being, she has excellent neutral for the purposes of both approach and keep-away, but also has normals with range/frame data that rival most strong pressure-based characters, along with an above average backstep and a somewhat okay reversal in teleport as far as escaping pressure goes.

I see Kokonoe as a character that should dominate the neutral game. Her normals are great for controlling the space around her, graviton manipulates other character's movement, specials like fireballs and lighting traps let her control the space further from her. She can even gamble with 236A/B for a quick rush in or use a graviton teleport.

I see the nerfs to her pressure and mixups as very reasonable honestly, she doesn't need those. She should instead be focused on controlling the stage itself, it's the perfect playstyle for a scientist imo.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Yeah, but Bullet deserves everything that ever happens to her. She can take it.

Oh lord, Bullet...I mean, I know why they buffed her and it makes sense she needed it, but...whyyyy?

 

[Minato]

Oh lord, Bullet...I mean, I know why they buffed her and it makes sense she needed it, but...whyyyy?

If you fight a Bullet offline, you'll see how truly weak she is. It's just online where she gets a power boost lol

 

[LivewiresXe]

Hahaha, you're probably right. Hopefully it's just like a 0 Bar Tager thing.

 

[Minato]

On PSN right now. DLing Skullgirls and I'll hop on BB when I see people on.

 

[Zankoku]

I'll play you later tonight once I'm off work, if you're still on.

 

[Minato]

Going to make a lobby soon. Trying out the Arcade Lobbies right now. Almost done.

 

[Spelt]

GGs everyone, sorry I couldn't stay for very long.

 

[Rutger]

GGs everyone.
I actually won some matches!

Then wanted to play Kagura because...
I haven't played Kagura in a very long time, I knew it was going to be bad, but meh, he's fun. :/

 

[Zankoku]

ggs and stuff. I like blocking until I run out of Barrier.

 

[Minato]

GGs, I'll have to play another day. Going to have to grind BB before SCR and fix my mistakes and habits.

 

[LivewiresXe]

GGs, since I finished the 6 Heroes storyline via "mash X through the entire thing to unlock Kagura despite not doing to use him since I don't read Japanese", soon I'll be able to put my full attention towards practicing for Bytown Brawl next weekend.

Also Minato, what's your thought on the Arcade Lobbies now that you've tried them?

 

[Desu~]

Everybody is enjoying their imported CP.
And I'm just here waiting for the release in North America.

 

[Gunla]

Everybody is enjoying their imported CP.
And I'm just here waiting for the release in North America.

I know that feeling, such a wait

 

[ぱみゅ]

At least you can wait.
It is very probable that it won't come to my country, and even if it did, I'd have to buy a PS3 (which is about 180% its normal price over here).
You guys are pretty lucky.

 

[Minato]

GGs, since I finished the 6 Heroes storyline via "mash X through the entire thing to unlock Kagura despite not doing to use him since I don't read Japanese", soon I'll be able to put my full attention towards practicing for Bytown Brawl next weekend.

Also Minato, what's your thought on the Arcade Lobbies now that you've tried them?

They're really cool. I like them a lot better than when setting Player Lobbies to have everyone playing a match at the same time. It's basically having 8 lobbies in one giant lobby, but with a ton of arcade stations. Moving around with your avatar is neat too.