The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!

[Rutger]

I think Rutger goes for the speed and mixup characters, and who knows, the Tsubaki/Labrys thing could be a fluke for everyone.

I certainly go for the fast, hard to hit characters first, but that doesn't explain Johnny, Labrys, Relius, Tsubaki, and Peacock. Then there's all the characters I've played in Smash, and I don't think any of my KoFXIII characters were "the fast" characters.

I've always figured it was just easier to say that I don't play the big, slow Grapplers, than it is to list the character types that I do play. :\

 

[Raziek]

I tend towards either footsies or set-ups. Usually with high mobility.

Marth in Brawl (Footsies)
Snake in Project M (Set-ups)
Bison in Street Fighter (Footsies)
Hazama (Bit of both) and Relius (Set-ups) in Blazblue.

 

[Spelt]

I pick zoners and then I rushdown with them because I don't know how fighting game.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I try to go for characters I feel that I can get a hit and run style game going with. However, if they get changed in their style from game to game or series to series I become confused. Like how SF4 Sakura is nothing like Alpha 3 or CVS2 Sakura (despite both being footsies characters). Either way, I like mobility over slow characters and I've never been good with grapplers or long range characters. I mean, I think it kind of shows with playing Noel, Chie, Sakura, Xianghua, Black Orchid (way retro), Millia, Yuri, Smoke, Catwoman, and so forth. Though...oddly enough most of them wind up being girls for some strange reason.

 

[Minato]

I've never been good with grapplers

My favorite grappler is Zangief from any of the SF2 iterations. I can't use grapplers in anything else. Although, I'm liking Cerebella and then there's Liz if you count her.

But I can pretty much use any type of character. I think SF2 and Marvel helped me out with that.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Gouki/Akuma - 3S, SF4

Relius - BBCS2

Sol, Holy Order Sol - GGAC, GGAC+

PRETTY MUCH EVERY ****ING CHARACTER IN THE GAME - GGXX

Scorpion, Baraka - MK2, MK9

King/Armor King - Tekken Tag Tournament

Juggernaut/Cable/Blackheart - MvC2

Rocket Raccoon/Deadpool/Dormammu - MvC3

Painwheel, Valentine - Skullgirls

P4A - Kanji

so on and so forth

ANYONE SEE A PATTERN HERE

Smooth Criminal

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Lol, I wish I played a certain type. I just go for looks rather than play style.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I don't play enough FGs to find an archetype for me.
BB - Platinum, λ-11
SG - Cerebella, Valentine, Parasoul
P4A - Chie
...
And I think that's about it... Unless we are to include Smash, in which I only play Brawl and a bazillion characters.

 

[Lythium]

Lol, I wish I played a certain type. I just go for looks rather than play style.

That's a type.

 

[Big-Cat]

Thankfully, I'm starting to see what I look for characters more as of late.

Fox, Zelda - Melee
Lucas, Zamus - Brawl
El Fuerte, Ibuki - SF4
Filia, Parasoul - Skullgirls (Never got online though)
Xiaoyu, Jaycee - Tekken Tag 2
Litchi, Taokaka, Platinum - BlazBlue - I'm looking to learn Mu-12 again though.
Eileen - VF5FS

If I ever get the chance to play Project M, I'm definitely trying out Zamus and Squirtle.

 

[Sarix]

I tend to go for Zoning, Okizeme, and Mix-up heavy characters in fighting games.

GG: Dizzy, Millia, Testament
BB: Litchi, Rachel
P4A: Mitsuru, Yukiko

Though...oddly enough most of them wind up being girls for some strange reason.

Yeah I manage to gravitate towards playing women in fighting games for some reason too.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Does Marth count as a women?

For me, it goes like this:

SSB64: Fox / Melee: Marth, Fox / Brawl: Marth
P4U: Yukiko / BB: Going to try Rachel, Tager / GG: Trying out Venom and Ky
SF: Ryu/Ken
SC: ZWEI, Viola, Kilik (SC2/3) / Tekken: Lili, Hwoarang / DoA: Kasumi
MB: Akiha, Tohno Shiki

If you want to try and tell me my "type" then go ahead. I'm not experienced enough to know, XD

And I lied, they aren't all waifu, lol.

Or are they?

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Why do I want to try Izayoi now.

Must. Resist.

 

[Kuraudo]

Haha, it's true. Low tier, no fear? I generally tend to gravitate towards characters that have either simple fundamentals or fraudulent oki.

I dunno, I guess characters like Ragna don't really appeal to me? I like it when there's something different about my simple characters. Like Tsubaki's charge or Labrys' axe meter, I guess.

Titanium Beast I think described Ragna the best over on Dustloop.

"I think there's just a general aura of fraudulence that surrounds the character, which is why he always seems bad. If you try to play him in a 100% honest way, he sucks because of a lack of tools. So you have to be fraudulent to win with him."

Ragna's got awesome zoning options, good corner carry and some respectful oki. But here's where the facts fall into place. Ragna zones. But he gets his ass kicked by the true zoners of the game. Lambda/Nu and Mu are horrors when they get set up just right. Rachel is almost as bad but to do proper damage, she and Mu have to get close which is where Ragna has a chance to turn things around. Characters like Makoto and Hazama hilariously enough do better rushdown and mix-ups, but...well.

I guess the best way I can describe Ragna and probably explain why you don't like him as a character type is that he's Mario.

Mario jumps good enough, he's quick enough and has some okay options, and everything "works" for him. Problem is, Bowser is stronger. Luigi jumps higher. Hammer Bros. throws things better than him. Replace Bowser with Hakumen, replace Luigi with Hazama or Taokaka or something (for being slippery mobile buggers) and Hammer Bros. with all the better zoners.

Ragna & Mario are in the sports class of All-Around. Safe and have some good things going for them once mastered, but other choices have more intrigue to them. Ragna has no meter to watch unless he's in Blood Kain.

 

[Deleted member]

Guess I'll post mine:

SFAlpha3 - Cammy, Ryu
SSF4 - Cammy, Bison
GGAC+ - Sol, Baiken
Blazblue - Noel, Mu-12, Hakumen
Smash 64 - C.Falcon, Fox
Smash Melee - Marth, Falco
Smash Brawl - Snake, Marth
Project M - Lucario, Zelda, Marth, Peach, EVERYONE (except Ike)
SC3 - Cervantes, Tira
SC2 - Mitsurugi, Link

Melty Blood- only played a bit as Arcueid, I really liked her.
Big Bang Beat Revolve - (This game is as dead as can get) Senna, Rouga
Tekken 6 - Heihachi, Hwoarang (I'm terrible at this game. So...)

Haven't played KoF, but I really want to.

I normally like characters with the counter gimmick, though I dislike a Parry system like in Alpha 3, I like it when it's unique to one character, hence the Marth, Hakumen, Baiken. I also prefer faster characters, though I tend to experiment. I don't normally go for the big slow dudes. I dunno actually, I guess I like badass dudes and cute girls.

 

[Lythium]

Kuraudo, I don't think Ragna is fraudulent or crappy or godlike or however you want to spin it. He's just not a character that I'm interested in playing. I very rarely play whatever you want to call them (shotos, MCs, whatev), because in my opinion, they have nothing appealing.

Ragna's got awesome zoning options, good corner carry and some respectful oki. But here's where the facts fall into place. Ragna zones. But he gets his *** kicked by the true zoners of the game.

I'm sorry, I don't really get what you're trying to say here. Ragna is a zoner?

Also, Mu's not a zoner either~

 

[Deleted member]

Kuraudo, I don't think Ragna is fraudulent or crappy or godlike or however you want to spin it. He's just not a character that I'm interested in playing. I very rarely play whatever you want to call them (shotos, MCs, whatev), because in my opinion, they have nothing appealing.



I'm sorry, I don't really get what you're trying to say here. Ragna is a zoner?

Also, Mu's not a zoner either~

Wait... How's Mu not a Zoner?

Her entire Drive is built around putting pressure on her foes from a distance. Hell, you can earn kills without ever even coming close to your opponent. Even some of her Normal Attacks keep her a safe distance from her foes.

Also,
>2013
>Not liking Sol

I admit Ragna's rather boring, but Sol... Dude's based off Freddie Mercury, what's not to like?

 

[Kuraudo]

Well I suppose that the better term is spacing. There was a lot of talk going on over on the Ragna dustloop section and everyone was throwing in their two cents.

And I'd have to disagree about Mu not being a zoner. It's just that she's not JUST a zoner. Have her steins set up and (at least for me as a Ragna player) I'm gonna have a rather intense time trying to get in, whilst eating damage until I finally DO get in.

--

I wasn't trying to insinuate that you didn't play him because you think he's one of those three things either. But at his core he's just basic with no added features (which is where characters like Tsubaki or Labrys give some of those). Most shotos and main characters usually don't add a twist.

 

[Lythium]

Manly Spirit: Sol is a cool character, but I'm not interested in playing him.

Mu isn't a zoner. She's a set-up and oki character. You can't zone characters with steins unless they have terrible neutral (like Arakune). She can play a runaway/keepaway game with steins and habaya, but that's not zoning. In most match-ups, you're using steins to create oki, tech traps, and pressure. I'll admit that Mu has a strong mid-range game, but if that's all it takes to be a zoner, then Platinum must be a zoner too.

Kuraudo: Ragna's spacing game is strong, and I do agree in that sense. I just think zoning isn't quite the right term, so I was really confused, haha.

And yeah, I like my basic characters, just not too basic~

 

[Deleted member]

Alright, just for reference, could you define what makes a Zoner in your eyes. This might be a good learning experience.

I always saw Mu as a mix between Zoning and Set-Up.

 

[Kuraudo]

Manly Spirit: Sol is a cool character, but I'm not interested in playing him.

Mu isn't a zoner. She's a set-up and oki character. You can't zone characters with steins unless they have terrible neutral (like Arakune). She can play a runaway/keepaway game with steins and habaya, but that's not zoning. In most match-ups, you're using steins to create oki, tech traps, and pressure. I'll admit that Mu has a strong mid-range game, but if that's all it takes to be a zoner, then Platinum must be a zoner too.

Kuraudo: Ragna's spacing game is strong, and I do agree in that sense. I just think zoning isn't quite the right term, so I was really confused, haha.

And yeah, I like my basic characters, just not too basic~

Ragna the Bloodedge: Press Any Button to "A-DURR!!"

XD

 

[Lythium]

Alright, just for reference, could you define what makes a Zoner in your eyes. This might be a good learning experience.

I always saw Mu as a mix between Zoning and Set-Up.

A zoner is a character that intentionally both keeps and pressures their opponent at a distance, often by getting good reads or forcing your opponent to react in a certain way. Lambda is a zoner. Hazama can zone with chains. Mu can zone with steins a little, but it's incredibly limited, because she can't keep it up against most characters. Steins don't hurt very much if you get tagged by one, they are impossible to hitconfirm and combo off of, they don't break primers, they stop firing if you get hit, charged ones are slow, and there's no chip damage. Also, you cannot control where the laser goes, only the placement of your steins, which is incredibly important. Command laser and explosion are both slow to start up. Mu's zoning game might annoy you to death, but it's not incredibly threatening. And steins don't exist to zone, they're mostly for oki set-ups.

Hence, why I believe that Mu is an oki character.

I will say that I think Mu's zoning game looks much better in CP though. In Extend, however, I've never been able to zone a character out for more than a few seconds at a time.

Ragna the Bloodedge: Press Any Button to "A-DURR!!"

XD

I would like to include Noel on this list of DURR.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I however, would argue that Arakune is worse and Noel was only durr close in CS2 (despite seeing your point and semi-agreeing). With Arakune, it's like "be all that you can bee".

 

[Crusayer]

Noel is durr in CP too apparently cuz DAISUL.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Ragna's boring, imo. That's why I stopped playing him.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Minato]

I feel bad. Having fun with strong characters and all. Oh well, picking who I like and picking a sub to help with bad matchups is really nice. lol

I have no counter to Lambda/Nu though :[

 

[Sarix]

A zoner is a character that intentionally both keeps and pressures their opponent at a distance, often by getting good reads or forcing your opponent to react in a certain way. Lambda is a zoner. Hazama can zone with chains. Mu can zone with steins a little, but it's incredibly limited, because she can't keep it up against most characters. Steins don't hurt very much if you get tagged by one, they are impossible to hitconfirm and combo off of, they don't break primers, they stop firing if you get hit, charged ones are slow, and there's no chip damage. Also, you cannot control where the laser goes, only the placement of your steins, which is incredibly important. Command laser and explosion are both slow to start up. Mu's zoning game might annoy you to death, but it's not incredibly threatening. And steins don't exist to zone, they're mostly for oki set-ups.

Hence, why I believe that Mu is an oki character..

Last I checked with some of the players on dustloop Mu-12 is considered a zoning character. This is the definition I got from Dustloop wiki:

"Zoning is when a player controls an area or space on the screen in order to limit an opponent's options while maximizing chances in creating their own. Old-school zoning incorporates long-ranged normal attacks and a projectile (think Dhalsim and Guile from Street Fighter 2), while new-school zoning can employ short-ranged normals with obscene hitboxes and quick recovery frames and numerous projectiles to make their opponents' lives a living hell (re: Venom from Guilty Gear, Lambda-11 and Arakune from BlazBlue)."

She's similar to Dizzy in that they both zone by filling the screen with projectiles/summons to create opportunities and force knockdown instead of continuous pressure zoning. Rachel is the same way in that she is not effective at creating continuous pressure and aims to zone by using her summons to bait and trap opponents. I do agree that she is also an oki character but her ability to control space with her projectiles to approach and start combos is quite powerful. Many characters have zoning tools like Platinum and her items and Jin with Ice Blades but they aren't considered zoning characters.

Not trying to pick a fight about this, I've just seen this on quite a few fighting game forums like Shoryuken and Dustloop that describe zoning as more than just distance fighting and it comes in quite a few flavors.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I forget who it was, but somebody mentioned to me when Mu first came out that she was supposedly "part-rushdown, part-zoner", which is obviously pretty broad. I far from play her enough to have any idea on things (though, next time I see or talk to one of the main Mu players I know, I'll ask him), even though I'd like to, but she does seem to have a bunch of little parts from other character types in there.

 

[Lythium]

Whatev, I'm not saying she can't zone, I'm saying she's not primarily a zoner. But I'm tired of arguing about this, so...

PS+ users, check this out: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/0...m_campaign=Feed:+siliconera/MkOc+(Siliconera)

 

[Deleted member]

Zoners

Yeah, this is the way I saw things too. I always felt that a true Zoner was always a more defensive character, meaning that they are generally keeping away from their opponent. Hence the Hold inputs in SF being on characters like Chun-Li and Guile. Of course you can have more offensive Zoners, Jin is a good example I suppose. And at least when I play Mu, I'm usually staying away spamming Steiners. Like we've said though, Mu's a bit of a hybrid, she's, imo, a Zoner with some Oki, and some Traps.

I dunno, I hope I'm not making an ass of myself here. I'm not very experienced with all the hard-core terms in fighters compared to others.

Either way, if someone with some knowledge of the matter willing to pop by this thread and lending me a hand, I'd appreciate it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/character-archetypes-in-smash-bros.331574/

Especially with the terminology, large part of which I kinda pulled outta my ass.

 

[Sarix]

Yeah, this is the way I saw things too. I always felt that a true Zoner was always a more defensive character, meaning that they are generally keeping away from their opponent. Hence the Hold inputs in SF being on characters like Chun-Li and Guile. Of course you can have more offensive Zoners, Jin is a good example I suppose. And at least when I play Mu, I'm usually staying away spamming Steiners. Like we've said though, Mu's a bit of a hybrid, she's, imo, a Zoner with some Oki, and some Traps.

I dunno, I hope I'm not making an *** of myself here. I'm not very experienced with all the hard-core terms in fighters compared to others.

Either way, if someone with some knowledge of the matter willing to pop by this thread and lending me a hand, I'd appreciate it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/character-archetypes-in-smash-bros.331574/

Especially with the terminology, large part of which I kinda pulled outta my ***.

Zoning is actually more about control than anything imo. With characters like Rachel and Venm you don't benefit from playing keepaway and walling since their projectiles are more effective for creating pressure, defensive zoners come from more of an archetype expectation. I wouldn't consider Jin a full on zoner since he really is just an all-rounder with tools for every situation and doesn't focus on just controlling the match.

Edit: Yeah there are several things you should probably fix on that archetype thread. I can PM what edits you can make if you want.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Uh, for what it's worth, I'm going to be online sometime between like 8:30-11:30 EST tonight if anybody wants to go and get some games on this, P4A, or...something else (hell, even Injustice or TTT2).

 

[Deleted member]

Zoning is actually more about control than anything imo. With characters like Rachel and Venm you don't benefit from playing keepaway and walling since their projectiles are more effective for creating pressure, defensive zoners come from more of an archetype expectation. I wouldn't consider Jin a full on zoner since he really is just an all-rounder with tools for every situation and doesn't focus on just controlling the match.

Edit: Yeah there are several things you should probably fix on that archetype thread. I can PM what edits you can make if you want.

Well, I kinda felt Jin is sort of a All-Rounder Zoner hybrid. Things have gotten a lot more convoluted in recent times. Anyway, yeah PM your thoughts if you'd like, or just post it there, whichever you prefer.

 

[Raziek]

Hazama with that zoning-rush down transitional hybrid.

 

[Minato]

Classifying characters is a tricky thing, especially since characters are broken down with subcategories and traits that they're pretty good at. The way I classify characters first by offense, defense, middle (balance). Next category would be footsie, zoner, mixup, rushdown, and grappler. Then you're broken down into subcategories which are unique traits like trap, puppet, etc.

The first classification is where you want to be during neutral game. Ragna wants to get in, Nu wants to stay out, Jin is somewhere in the middle. Then you categorize it by what they're doing at that range in neutral game. Ragna's going to be doing footsies, Nu will zone with swords, Makoto will be rushing down, etc. With that said, everything changes on the knockdown, especially in anime games. Everyone becomes a mixup/oki/rushdown character for the most part, it's just some excel at it better than others. So I'm all up for saying there are oki characters sometime (like I do for Rachel), but I find her definitely to be a zoner in neutral until she finds her way in. For Mu, I'd say she's middle and zoner. She's able to mix styles like Jin in neutral, but zoning fits her more than the other stuff I listed in the second category.

On the topic of zoning, it's a pretty vague term. It doesn't necessarily mean keepaway but it can be too. It's one of those terms that bleed with something else. The way I see it, keepaway is more of the extreme case of zoning, which is why I like putting keepaway in the subcategory instead of the second one.

There's no definitive list of what's right and wrong on archetypes though. But this is how I see things and what made the most sense to me.

 

[Deleted member]

@Minato

You're explanation makes the most sense. It's kinda like what I was thinking on doing when redoing that thread.

You should help Sarix help me. Though you've kinda covered all points already. What about gimmicks? Like counters for example, Baiken, Hakumen. Some characters are built around that.

 

[Minato]

You should help Sarix help me. Though you've kinda covered all points already. What about gimmicks? Like counters for example, Baiken, Hakumen. Some characters are built around that.

Hm, Baiken's interesting and really hard to categorize. She's really a mix of a lot of stuff. Neutral she's pretty balanced/defense. Next I'd like to say zone. It's not straight up projectile zoning with mats and chains, but she's not footsie either. Next part is really up to you. Like, I guess you can say turtle for one subcategory.

There's no real list of subcategories for archetypes since I just usually make them up, but Hakumen's meter-based if that counts for anything. Describing stuff like "Alpha Counters" for Baiken would probably fit more into just playstyle description instead of archetype. It's really a mess for these types of characters since they're not really archetypes, but stuff that are more like character descriptions.

Edit: But to answer your question, I'd say anything that are gimmicks just fit under character description.

 

[Spelt]

Gimmicks are gimmicks, they should not be used to classify a character. Hakumen's counters are not a gimmick, they are a viable tool that can be used to punish or condition certain actions.

 

[Minato]

Gimmicks are gimmicks, they should not be used to classify a character. Hakumen's counters are not a gimmick, they are a viable tool that can be used to punish or condition certain actions.

I'll be honest, I can't believe I forgot about Hakumen's Drive counter. Too focused on that meter. lol

 

[Minato]

GGs, Livewire. Be careful. You did some rather questionable stuff to put it lightly. Also, stop doing 6A as a starter so much.