King5280
Smash Journeyman
so what if i used fox and marth in melee. each for specific mu's and both for an equal amount of mu's. who do i main?
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The Big MI Discussion Topic
- Thread starter jv3x3
- Start date
Yaokzir
Smash Rookie
Lol you can't favorite something as equally as something else smh. Anyway this is enough debate for me lol.
King5280
Smash Journeyman
false but i agree idc enough to argue any moreLol you can't favorite something as equally as something else smh.
Juggleguy
Smash Grimer
Then you main nobody. You just play Fox and Marth.
King5280
Smash Journeyman
i could agree with that
kd-
Smash Lord
Sarix
Smash Ace
The way I see this debate going it's like doing the optimistic vs. pessimist water glass debate where we are not going to get one answer because of different view points of the situation.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Jaedong or bust.
kd-
Smash Lord
Reach, the Man Toss.
kd-
Smash Lord
Oh. That... changes everything.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
I am very upset.
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
i almost did :\
zyth
Smash Lord
I dont see how theres discrepancies in the system....it takes into account what place a player gets, how many ppl were actually in the tourny, even whether or not u got a bye. theres also a money prize factor involved but I dont plan on using that. Honestly I never saw this TrueSkill system so I dont know where this distrust from point systems are coming from but I still think u shouldnt shoot down the point system so easily
imo point systems based on bracket placement/ monetary winnings aren't the way to go. Point systems based on player skill and who plays who is the way to go. TrueSkill is a pretty good system for doing exactly that. I think it'd be a reasonable project to take tournaments from up to 6mo ago and start a trueskill raking off of that. From there you could either update it every 3mo or so, or just after every tourney lol.
DRDN
Smash Master
Id say do every tourney MI has had in it and see the rankings then no matter who comes out of retirement their points will be there for when you get the W
I'm not getting the full reason trueskill isn't used atleast for data purposes before the end of the season and it would let others know what they have to do to become a member
I'm not getting the full reason trueskill isn't used atleast for data purposes before the end of the season and it would let others know what they have to do to become a member
Roller
Smash Legend
Because if you do that then players like Anther, NoJ, and Rofa will be among the top players on the list.. Which is dumb, as none of them (outside of one recent tourney for Anther) are active. It's why half the top tier of the Texas PR doesn't play, but has been up there forever.
The system actually ENCOURAGES inactivity. Why bother entering after you have become among the point leaders? Just sit pretty with a high point total while everyone else's fluctuates.
The system actually ENCOURAGES inactivity. Why bother entering after you have become among the point leaders? Just sit pretty with a high point total while everyone else's fluctuates.
DRDN
Smash Master
Because there's a depreciation for inactivity? There's also the requirement of how many tourneys you must enter to be PRd
Gifts
¡Me gusta tejer!
This is why you would introduce a decay system to factor in. For example, you don't show up to at least (just throwing a random reasonable number out there) five notable tournaments within the state of MI you would drop x amount of points. You would keep decreasing in points for every tournament not played.
Exceptions could be made since say you for example go back to NJ during the summer.
I'd like to see a True Skill system used since they are always nice to look at and compare yourself with others. Or to just see that new player rise through the ranks. You don't get to see that in a PR thread. For example, I was terrible when I first entered the scene (plz don't watch, lmfao) and now i'm taking games off people I wouldn't have 6 months ago and actually getting out of pools. I can see my improvements (and maybe others can) but I know for a fact I'm not close to pr level. Yet I'd like to see how I fair within our state. Granted I sort of know just by being here for the amount of time I have but I'd just like to see it on paper.
Either way if this gets made, GREAT that would be awesome.
If not, what ever I wouldn't be butt hurt about not getting this implemented.
I'd rather not see Zyth's system. It is very flawed, where the True Skill system (with decay factored in) would be a bit more precise.
Roller
Smash Legend
I agree that trueskill is definitely better than what zyth is using. But I should note that Texas also utilizes point decay. Even with that, the top players are so far ahead that they never fall down. And DRDN, introducing decay directly contradicts your idea to go back and include all older MI tourneys so that old players would be able to come back with points. That was mainly what I was responding to about why decay is needed.
DRDN
Smash Master
I say add them in so that you can see the change over the years and see what a difference a return from a long break can do
Roller
Smash Legend
These contradict.
How would you see the change over years if they were started with their already depreciated points.. You are going back and forth between opposing ideals.
Gifts
¡Me gusta tejer!
Why add them in if all they are going to do is decay down the list?
Damittom
Smash Ace
What they should really do is when using a trueskill system if someone is not active in a season take them off the published list but continue to keep track of their point decay so if someone became active again they could be put back into the system from the inactive list
MegaRobMan
Smash Hero
Dude, this discussion is just awful.
If people don't enter tournaments just to keep their place on the PR higher, YOU SHOULD REMOVE THEM FOR BEING COWARDS. Now, if they don't enter for legit johns, work/money/school, that's fine.
But people actually not entering a tournament because they are afraid they will drop in the PR is just dumb, what's the point of being on a PR if you don't get challenged.
Do you guys get paid for PR placement or something? If so, I take it back. Make that cash.
If people don't enter tournaments just to keep their place on the PR higher, YOU SHOULD REMOVE THEM FOR BEING COWARDS. Now, if they don't enter for legit johns, work/money/school, that's fine.
But people actually not entering a tournament because they are afraid they will drop in the PR is just dumb, what's the point of being on a PR if you don't get challenged.
Do you guys get paid for PR placement or something? If so, I take it back. Make that cash.
Damittom
Smash Ace
I dont thinking people being a coward was ever an issue as to why they dont show up to a tourney, however, its not fair to rank a player that has not been active in a year above some new talent
Here's the solution to people staying ranked up there despite not attending tournaments:
Stop being so ****ty.
For those of you familiar with TrueSkill's system, just increase everyone's sigma by a factor of around 5% at the turn of each month - this makes each consecutive month of inactivity hit harder in terms of point decay. If that's still not fast enough for you, hide players who do not attend X consecutive local tournaments from the public list until they make another appearance. Alternatively, just use the list as a good reference point and extra criterium besides just evaluating tournament performance yourselves.
For those of you familiar with TrueSkill's system, just increase everyone's sigma by a factor of around 5% at the turn of each month - this makes each consecutive month of inactivity hit harder in terms of point decay. If that's still not fast enough for you, hide players who do not attend X consecutive local tournaments from the public list until they make another appearance. Alternatively, just use the list as a good reference point and extra criterium besides just evaluating tournament performance yourselves.
Id agree with what Ankoku said, I think hiding the players would be the best option. I'm a little unsure about what the sigma is tbh.
Also, Ankoku I always was curious about this. How did you handle pools when ding the TSR?
Also, Ankoku I always was curious about this. How did you handle pools when ding the TSR?
Trueskill works by keeping both an estimate of what your skill is, and an estimate of the uncertainty of that skill. Therefore increasing the uncertainty will lower their overall skill level w/o changing you guess of their skill, making it easy for inactives to drop, but easy for them to get back to where they were.
Use your head.
zyth
Smash Lord
ok I see all the discussion on true skill, but no one actually answered my question. how is the point system flawed? if you go to tournies with only a few ppl and win u get very little points, compared to attending a big tourny where almost the entire state goes to and place pretty well. theres a decay system, u dont get points for bye wins and if you go to a lot of tournies but consistently place low, u get almost no points anyway. So can someone tell me HOW its flawed?
Roller
Smash Legend
smashfest at my place @ 5 today. Anther WILL be there. Lain MIGHT be there. Other people too.
Gifts
¡Me gusta tejer!
^^ I think that is the major flaw that people keep targeting. irdc, its just a project and people should just be looking at it as such.doesnt your system just do its calculations off of tournament placements?