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The Battle for Power! (Matchmaking & Video Thread)

A2ZOMG

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Yeah good stuff Ray. Although I don't feel like he played MK that well, and he looks like he generally doesn't understand the character as well as, say his ROB. He didn't really try to use tilts or Tornado (this move is still good because you can do over 20 damage with it).
 
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A2ZOMG

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Xinc

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Z1GMA

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Ganon Dittos are really hard, actually.
He has a really strong punishing-game Vs himself and a lot of attacks that sends the other dorf straight out in a spot where it's hard to recover from.
A slight advantage in momentum often results in a stock.
...Ganon Dittos are fun.
 

Vermanubis

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Those were some really great matches, Kalm. You two both did a good job adapting to each other.

And Zig's right. I find it really hard to play the MU properly, mostly because I don't want to do to the other Ganon what literally everyone does to them: not approach. Not that I'm unwilling to, but on a casual level, I can't take them seriously.
 
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A2ZOMG

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Those were some really great matches, Kalm. You two both did a good job adapting to each other.

And Zig's right. I find it really hard to play the MU properly, mostly because I don't want to do to the other Ganon what literally everyone does to them: not approach. Not that I'm unwilling to, but on a casual level, I can't take them seriously.
I don't see that as a serious problem in Ganon dittos. Ganondorf isn't good at turtling due to his blindspots, meaning you can viably play aggressively against him.

I think at a high level what you saw in those matches best emphasizes the dynamics of the matchups. It's first and foremost an aggressive footsies battle. There's no one guaranteed right way to space against Ganondorf due to his punish options in footsies all being situationally powerful, but there is a lot of respect for options like Dash Attack and Flame Choke commanded on both sides.
 

Vermanubis

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That's my primary MO: play aggressivey against him. Too aggressively. Though, ultimately, one Ganondorf will become more inclined to stay back, since his strong punish game and risky moves put the aggressor at the disadvantage should one be more inclined to baiting and waiting. That's the point at which the MU slows down and becomes more about shieldbaiting and momentum than weaving in mid-range.

In general you're right, though.This is just a niche facet of the MU that I've noticed.
 

A2ZOMG

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To me, the shield baiting in Ganon dittos is precisely what makes them so interesting. It is a big yomi game. And what is so cool to me is the way spacing needs to be adjusted dynamically to pressure shield but then respect Ganondorf's punishes.

It is awe inspiring watching players as fearless as Gungnir and Ray_Kalm mutually respecting the mid range, and trying to create terror in different ways, and then trying to foil one another's evil schemes.
 

Vermanubis

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I won't disagree that they're certainly entertaining =P Both to play and to watch. Also, in my history, if a Ganon ditto lasts longer than 90-120 seconds, then something is dramatically and critically wrong.

Anyway, in case anyone's interested in more of my jank, here're a few more FG matches; two serious, one for entertainment.

- vs Kirby

vs Mega Man

vs False Kings (:colorful:)
 

Ray_Kalm

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Ray_Kalm

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For those who don't like playing on Yoshi's Island as Ganondorf, here's a fun ditto with Ganon. Pay close attention to the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTgTfQLsSqQ&list=UUNwCxT_fwrt3nCAfnxUDZmQ
I was waiting for the Bowser discussion in the match-up thread for my input on this, but stages with platforms (Yoshi Island) can work favourably well in favour of Ganon against certain characters.

There are a bunch of characters which Ganon holds high during flame choke, and if done under a platform they land on top of that platform. Yoshi Island's platform constantly tilts, and if flame choke is done during the tilt under the lower side it lands almost every single character on top. There are so many advantageous possibilities with this. I believe teching this is still possible, but much harder.
 

Xinc

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I was waiting for the Bowser discussion in the match-up thread for my input on this, but stages with platforms (Yoshi Island) can work favourably well in favour of Ganon against certain characters.

There are a bunch of characters which Ganon holds high during flame choke, and if done under a platform they land on top of that platform. Yoshi Island's platform constantly tilts, and if flame choke is done during the tilt under the lower side it lands almost every single character on top. There are so many advantageous possibilities with this. I believe teching this is still possible, but much harder.
In my guide (that needs to be updated, but I'll get to that in a week's time plus a few days), I note BF is the best stage for Ganon and Yoshi's is a second. The fact that choke puts many characters on a higher platform allows to many new followups (even if the victim techs). Up air is arguably the most basic, but fundamental way to go to rack up, but I'm not sure about anything else.

Guide: (Shamelessly promotes because I needs them reviews)
 

A2ZOMG

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I won't disagree that they're certainly entertaining =P Both to play and to watch. Also, in my history, if a Ganon ditto lasts longer than 90-120 seconds, then something is dramatically and critically wrong.

Anyway, in case anyone's interested in more of my jank, here're a few more FG matches; two serious, one for entertainment.

- vs Kirby

vs Mega Man

vs False Kings (:colorful:)
I'm honestly impressed at how ruthlessly precise your gameplay has become, especially the way you edgeguard and have confidence in both your air and grab game. Not to mention the rate at which you capitalize on patterns, seizing their brains from their very skulls. You seem to have improved, when I observed you already were terrifyingly formidable just what seemed like a few weeks ago perhaps?

I'm very afraid.
 
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Vermanubis

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Thanks, dude. =P

I took the advice about grabs seriously and tried to use them more. The difference is certainly nocticeable! Less staling of moves, which is a big deal.
 

Shogger

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Thanks, dude. =P

I took the advice about grabs seriously and tried to use them more. The difference is certainly nocticeable! Less staling of moves, which is a big deal.
That Kirby game made me laugh so hard. That WKC into Dair, and then the chain choke. I could see how different the Kirby spaced after you did that.
 

Daeyrat

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The black armored ganon with purple cape from the second dedede video fully understood how the triforce of power works.
 

Opana

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Will be posting this video vs. a Greninja, looking for critquing.

I know of some, like air dodging into the ground or reads that are pretty off. Not to mention rolling after a powershield and doing things like utilt, but those are unintentional.

NVM, a lot of what he did, like usmash and shadow sneak after dair is apparently nerfed.

Will attempt to upload a patched replay.
 
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Daeyrat

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These 5 are vids of a great ROB, I lost some.
Against fox: When you stunned him, you should've gone with Reverse Warlock. It's ganon's strongest attack... maybe the game's strongest.... Kills mario at 25% from Battlefield's middle. Also, avoid ledge drop and regrab. The lack of invulnerability gives the enemy a guaranteed punish.

As for Palutena, if she wants to be a goddess again, she'll need to work really hard to climb up from the abyss you sent her to. On the positive side, at least she has Yoshi's company down there.

Nice match against Falcon.
 

Opana

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I wasn't sure which was more powerful but kinda just went with the first thing that popped into my head.

Yeah I did well in the Yoshi match, I powershielded for once without without rolling lol.

Yeah I actually would've sded in the Palutena match but grabbed her accidentally with up special, which was pretty awesome.

I liked the Falcon match for the tech chase, I'm glad he couldn't tech it as I miss tech chases.
 

MrHomelessHobo

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I feel very proud about this play and I think it shows ganon's strengths.

 

Xinc

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I feel very proud about this play and I think it shows ganon's strengths.

I guess. I feel there's definitely more to Ganon than what you displayed, but that was a good display of some of what our evil overlord has to offer to his advisors. (I do hope we could be considered advisors. As what the guys at Xanadu said, you don't elect to choose Ganon. Ganon elects you.)
 

Poxnixles

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This one's not all Ganon, but it mostly is.
 

Jtails

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Hey guys, so I made a competitive guide plus example of my Ganon in For Glory mode in case anyone is interested in my opinion.

I'm not a Ganon main, but maybe watching some of my game play can give ideas or inspire different ways to play the character.

Ganondorf Competitive Guide + For Glory

as well as I hope Ganon mains can give me some critique on things I may be missing!
 
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Z1GMA

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I feel very proud about this play and I think it shows ganon's strengths.

In the beginning where you get juggled like that, use Uair instead of Fair as it comes out much faster.
Solid game.
This one's not all Ganon, but it mostly is.
I like the reverse Dtilt > Ftilt o Shulk.
Also, nice Warlock Read on ZSS' Flip Kick.

Hey guys, so I made a competitive guide plus example of my Ganon in For Glory mode in case anyone is interested in my opinion.

I'm not a Ganon main, but maybe watching some of my game play can give ideas or inspire different ways to play the character.

Ganondorf Competitive Guide + For Glory

as well as I hope Ganon mains can give me some critique on things I may be missing!
You guide could've been great for beginner-Ganons, if it weren't for some of your opinions.
Up+B as an AA? No.
Not a fan of down+B? It has some great uses.
 
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