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The Battle for Power! (Matchmaking & Video Thread)

Vermanubis

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Nice videos, everyone.

Here're a few of my own. I'll update this post as they come.

- versus Sheik in For Glory

- versus Bowser in FG

- versus another Sheik

- versus ROB
 
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A2ZOMG

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Vermanubis, your out of (power)shield punishes and sinister patience for me are just...awe inspiring.

Personally me, I know it's something I have to actively think about more. Just realizing moments where being ready to try powershield specific punishes is smart. I remember watching your 2nd Sheik video and really approving of the powershield -> F-tilt (though to be picky, grabbing would have been preferable for damage).
 
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Vermanubis

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You certainly know how to flatter a Ganon, sir. Thank you very, very much.

(and yes, making optimal decisions OoS [such as grabbing instead of tilting] is something that certainly couldn't hurt to work on)
 
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A2ZOMG

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You certainly know how to flatter a Ganon, sir. Thank you very, very much.

(and yes, making optimal decisions OoS [such as grabbing instead of tilting] is something that certainly could hurt to work on)
If I had more critique that I could immediately think of, I'd mention it. But right now, I don't have any serious complaints about your fundamentals...which make me shiver in anticipation of your participation in the online Ganon worship session tourney that is planned, and makes me feel like as the coordinator I'm obligated to level up.

Actually to some extent, I feel like in general you SHOULD try grabbing more at least from the matches I've seen. It might seem a little bit contradictory to your really careful spacing at midrange. However, I believe it's still necessary to remind people that you can try running up and grabbing them to keep them honest about their defensive options. Plus every pummel and throw you get as Ganon is damage that isn't staling your other moves, which helps you kill people earlier. Ganon in that sense benefits more than most characters from getting grabs, when you consider his potential to kill people quickly.

The videos I have on my youtube channel featuring Gungir's Ganon have several moments which I believe show why mixing in regular grabs is important. Obviously, I'm well aware it's much easier said than done to scare a ZSS or Sheik with regular grabs. Other than that, you clearly have top notch control over the character, have strong knowledge of good move applications, and solid reactions, all things which I'd aspire to emulate.
 
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A2ZOMG

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Speaking of critiques, would anyone mind giving me a little bit of input on a match of mine?

http://youtu.be/YKkRQbHPXOU
You kinda rely on Side-B a bit too much from what I've seen. It was good as a punish to reckless Sonic spindashes. But it shouldn't be a substitute for spacing correctly. Well timed pivot grabs can potentially be a safer option against Sonic's approaches, in case he tries to go for a different option other than dashing directly at you.

You tried to correct your spacing with rolls a lot, which I feel especially against someone like Sonic isn't a very good idea, given he can easily punish rolls in any direction if he hasn't already committed beforehand to something. Rolling is something you should reserve when you absolutely need to make a hard read on a walling attempt, or sometimes as a way to escape pressure from crossovers as Ganon.

It's also worth learning to space aerials when techchasing with Flame Choke. This lets you cover getup attacks while not leaving yourself too open in case your opponent does something different.

MD vs TB Round 1

MD vs TB Round 2

MD vs TB Round 3

Critiques would be appreciated, I know I sucked big time in 3 though.
Honestly...the best way I can sum this up is I really feel like you need to actually just take a moment to slow down and think about how your opponent can attack you. Take 1:22 on the third match. Firstoff, what were you expecting Kirby to do that would have gotten hit by fullhop D-air? Nextoff, why did you then land and shield there for so long? You really had no reason to be doing that when you had plenty of time to analyze Kirby's position and approximately how long it would take him to reach you with an aerial, which you could relatively safely attempt to either powershield or anti-air with N-air/U-air. I know multiplayer lag is a factor, but I do believe that is a clear example of a situation you could have actively analyzed more carefully.

A lot of your approaches, while flashy, similarly don't appear to put a lot of thought and consideration behind your opponent's movement options. I know you know what cool things Ganon's moves can do. You also have to understand what your opponent is capable of as well, which I felt wasn't well demonstrated in your playstyle.
 
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Opana

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I appreciate the feedback, and I agree sometimes I go overboard trying to be flashy and/or entertaining and look liike a fool doing so.

But to qnswer your criticisms best I can...

I usually fh dair as a kinda lame but usually workable bait opportunity.

I shielded not because of lag, that was just bad on my part.

Yeah, I guess I kinda have a telegraphed way of playing that's hard to shy away from, I mean usually once they figure me out it's hard to deal with them lol.

So I'll work on focusing less on myself and more on the opponent, if I'm taking from this properly. Thanks for the input, I very much appreciate it.

Also, I plan to post all my vids here, so whether you want to critique without me asking is your call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7oPR_PyJPU
Ganon vs Ganon FG Mirror


Sorry if I tried to be too flashy again >_>

I am aware of this problem though
 

A2ZOMG

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I usually fh dair as a kinda lame but usually workable bait opportunity.
You can cover similar options more efficiently with U-smash, and U-smash also does more damage and isn't unsafe on hit.

FH U-air also is underrated given it leaves you the option of N-air immediately afterwards to control the ground.
 
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Opana

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You can cover similar options more efficiently with U-smash, and U-smash also does more damage and isn't unsafe on hit.

FH U-air also is underrated given it leaves you the option of N-air immediately afterwards to control the ground.
I do that too, although for some reason not as much. I didn't know about that uair->nair thing though, thanks for that.

The only other time I fh dair is if I predict a ledge hop or attempt to thunderstomp another Ganon(Maybe it works on other big characters too).

I again appreciate all the help/criticism, I really like Ganondorf as a character and want to make him work for me. He's my main regardless, but I want to be able to hold my own in all mus/fights.

Speaking of MUs, I have a hell of a time dealing with Diddy/Tink, it was a certain user who camped the hell out of me and I couldn't think up any counter measures.
 

KageJuin

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Did I improve compared to the last few vids everyone?
I think I have been trying to incorporate more stuff.

I am going to watch everyone else's vids and then comment :D
 

Opana

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Vine is lagging too much for me, so can anyone tell me about the dacus? Is it viable? Is it performed the same way as brawl?
 

A2ZOMG

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Slide half of BF instantly if done right. No idea about the strictness of inputs though.
 

mangamusicfan

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Hey guys I could use some help.
I uplouded on purpose 2 matches where i lose becouse I want some advise from what im doing good and what I could do better tnx!
tnx!
 

Poxnixles

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Message: aspires to be 'The Wise Ganon'
Also I have no idea why the Shulk allowed this. Not my best play but funny.
 
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KageJuin

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Watch me make Lucina cry and wish she had never walked upon the king of evil.
Triforce of power aint nothing to be played with son!

GET REKT

FEAR THE GANON

(feedback would be appreciated)
 
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Ray_Kalm

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A match I had with a Samus player on for Glory. I'll be updating the OP with more matches soon.
 
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A2ZOMG

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Gungnir uploaded more footage...that seriously deserves to be in a montage/combo video.

 

Ray_Kalm

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Gungnir uploaded more footage...that seriously deserves to be in a montage/combo video.

I have to say, what he did against the Robin at 0:44 to 1:00 and many other stuff, I couldn't do. My respect to him for that.

He's definitely the best Ganon I've seen.
 
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A2ZOMG

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I see a good deal of jabs being thrown out. Was it buffed from Brawl?
We don't have frame data to prove it, but most of our observations suggest that it appears to have slightly faster startup.

I would guess it starts up in 6 frames in this game as opposed to 8 in Brawl. Might not sound like a lot, but it makes a very significant difference when getting out a move against people that try to rush you down.
 
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Kevbot34

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We don't have frame data to prove it, but most of our observations suggest that it appears to have slightly faster startup.

I would guess it starts up in 6 frames in this game as opposed to 8 in Brawl. Might not sound like a lot, but it makes a very significant difference when getting out a move against people that try to rush you down.
His ftilit and dtilit look way faster, too. And the choke damage is so beautiful. Ganondorf looks like he will be even more fun to play this go around!
 

Shogger

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Nice videos, everyone.

Here're a few of my own. I'll update this post as they come.

- versus Sheik in For Glory

- versus Bowser in FG

- versus another Sheik

- versus ROB
Wow. I learned a lot by watching you play during Brawl, and it looks like I'll be learning much more!

I was really impressed by how deftly you powershielded that Sheik while approaching, as well as your reads around the edge. Love the Ftilts to punish rolls.

I've got a couple questions, if you don't mind answering:

1) I notice you almost never really grab. Is there a reason for this? I shieldgrab and punish with grabs a lot when I play, so I was wondering if there were some reason you didn't rely on grabbing very much.

2) I also notice you make REALLY heavy use of Aerudo. Why do you prefer it over a regular, grounded Gerudo? I almost never use Aerudo except when coming onstage, so I'd like to understand it better.

I haven't really played against anyone of quite those people's caliber online yet, but I wanna rep the King of Evil as best I can.


I see a good deal of jabs being thrown out. Was it buffed from Brawl?
I'm not sure if it has been buffed, but it was a solid move already.
 
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Kevbot34

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All his aerials are pretty solid looking, too. What are the odds Ganondorf can compete for a decent tier ranking?
 

Daeyrat

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1x1 final destination? If you're good at reads, you might get somewhere. Maybe 4x6, 4.5 or 5x5 against the cast. Mostly 4.5 and 5.
Ganon is a FFA-oriented character. In 1x1 he relies on early kills, which can only be achieved through good reads.
Running foward won't do much.
 

Vermanubis

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Wow. I learned a lot by watching you play during Brawl, and it looks like I'll be learning much more!

I was really impressed by how deftly you powershielded that Shiek while approaching, as well as your reads around the edge. Love the Ftilts to punish rolls.

I've got a couple questions, if you don't mind answering:

1) I notice you almost never really grab. Is there a reason for this? I shieldgrab and punish with grabs a lot when I play, so I was wondering if there were some reason you didn't rely on grabbing very much.

2) I also notice you make REALLY heavy use of Aerudo. Why do you prefer it over a regular, grounded Gerudo? I almost never use Aerudo except when coming onstage, so I'd like to understand it better.

I haven't really played against anyone of quite those people's caliber online yet, but I wanna rep the King of Evil as best I can.
Well, thank you, sir.

About grabbing: I'll usually only grab in three circumstances: 1) when I PS something so my shield doesn't get pushed back, so I'm actually within grab range. 2) I often prefer to make the read with a Gerudo/Aerudo to punish if I'm comfortable reading their movement patterns, so I'll only grab when I'm not confident in making the read. For example, if Rosalina recovers sloppily and anything but grab would be too slow to punish her, I'll grab. 3) As a mix-up.

And Aerudo: Aerudo's risky, but you have more options in the air. That is, if you just approach a good Bowser on foot, he can outspace you for days. But if you jump and then Aerudo, Bowser's less willing to throw moves out because he might trade with a BAir, and it allows Ganon to weave a bit. It's the one thing Ganon has that makes shieldy people have to think about dropping shield, especially in limited spaces.
 
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Z1GMA

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Nice videos, everyone.

Here're a few of my own. I'll update this post as they come.

- versus Sheik in For Glory

- versus Bowser in FG

- versus another Sheik

- versus ROB
The first Sheik Match:
That SH Dair on stage > travel off stage > travel back DJ Bair, was super intelligent.
I'm going to steal it from you.
 

Fox Hater

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Gungnir uploaded more footage...that seriously deserves to be in a montage/combo video.

Finally I see someone doing the stuff I've been doing since I got my hands on this game a month ago.

I just don't understand why some players don't go for the option of grab the edge after the opponent grabs it and then bair or spike ( depending on the character )

Your ganon is very decent, but sometimes you use the same patterns and a really good player might punish you for that.

some times i saw in your vids trying to space the f-tilt but whiff ( a good player will be aware of this and punish you), maybe you dont know or lack the skill but for footsies you can also run quickly press Down + quarter circle forward + A and the F tilt will come out. This is good for pokes, pressure and people may think you are going to do a dash attack. Then once you get in their minds to block to the same Down quarter circle forward + B and you get the side be command grab. Try this and let me know :)

I'll try to post some videos of my Ganon I am really beasting, but currenly I am staying in China so its kind of hard. Ive been in japan too and some casual players are already getting better at the game.

This game will definitely improve when the wii u version (dair could be more useful with a C stick) comes out but still has lots of flaws.

Maybe when I am back in the states ill be able to play some Cali players with the wii u version :)
 

A2ZOMG

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Finally I see someone doing the stuff I've been doing since I got my hands on this game a month ago.

I just don't understand why some players don't go for the option of grab the edge after the opponent grabs it and then bair or spike ( depending on the character )

Your ganon is very decent, but sometimes you use the same patterns and a really good player might punish you for that.

some times i saw in your vids trying to space the f-tilt but whiff ( a good player will be aware of this and punish you), maybe you dont know or lack the skill but for footsies you can also run quickly press Down + quarter circle forward + A and the F tilt will come out. This is good for pokes, pressure and people may think you are going to do a dash attack. Then once you get in their minds to block to the same Down quarter circle forward + B and you get the side be command grab. Try this and let me know :)

I'll try to post some videos of my Ganon I am really beasting, but currenly I am staying in China so its kind of hard. Ive been in japan too and some casual players are already getting better at the game.

This game will definitely improve when the wii u version (dair could be more useful with a C stick) comes out but still has lots of flaws.

Maybe when I am back in the states ill be able to play some Cali players with the wii u version :)
If you're in Japan, try your best to see if you can actually find the guy who I posted videos of. =P

Like...Gungnir's spacing is just way better than almost anything else I've seen. He's really careful about waiting out dodges and gets in range to grab extremely efficiently.
 

Vermanubis

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Watch me make Lucina cry and wish she had never walked upon the king of evil.
Triforce of power aint nothing to be played with son!

GET REKT

FEAR THE GANON

(feedback would be appreciated)
The biggest things I noticed were that you would benefit well from getting more comfortable with Ganon's ground spacing options, like DTilt and so forth. One of the primary things that makes Ganon successful in any context is knowing how to scare people. That is, do things to make them think. Use Ganon's jumps, mix up your movement patterns. Most importanly, call people's bluffs. For example, if a Robin throws an arc fire, jump over it and maybe FAir their shield. You'll probably get punished, but next time, try doing the same thing, but instead of FAiring, just empty jump > grab. Ganon can exercise his options best when the opponent is aware of potential consequences, and you have to be willing to take a few licks to put ideas into their heads.

And when characters like Greninja jump over your head a lot like he did, don't be afraid to throw out UAirs and NAirs. The temptation is to hold shield, but the best option in such cases is, imo, to challenge their movement and let 'em know you're not afraid to challenge them. Overall, most noticeable area for improvement: aerials.

Also...

Here're a few new videos vs Fox and Pacman.

- vs. Fox
- vs. Pacman
 
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Fox Hater

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If you're in Japan, try your best to see if you can actually find the guy who I posted videos of. =P

Like...Gungnir's spacing is just way better than almost anything else I've seen. He's really careful about waiting out dodges and gets in range to grab extremely efficiently.
lol
Sadly I am not in japan now, I am back in China and here no one plays Nintendo games... only PC and Microsoft xbox.

I might be able to travel there in Christmas so who knows. but by that time the wii u version will come out, so we'll see. I believe once the Wii U version comes out American top players will start taking the game more seriously and could surpass Japanese players.

His spacing is somewhat good, I just have the critique I mentioned with his obvious Ftilt that he whiffed so many times.
 

A2ZOMG

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lol
Sadly I am not in japan now, I am back in China and here no one plays Nintendo games... only PC and Microsoft xbox.

I might be able to travel there in Christmas so who knows. but by that time the wii u version will come out, so we'll see. I believe once the Wii U version comes out American top players will start taking the game more seriously and could surpass Japanese players.

His spacing is somewhat good, I just have the critique I mentioned with his obvious Ftilt that he whiffed so many times.
I didn't see his F-tilt whiffing as a real mistake most of the time. Especially in the 2nd video against Greninja, it seemed evident he was deliberately doing it to get a reaction.

As Ganondorf, one of the most important things you can do as a player is encouraging them to react to you in a way that is predictable and then altering your gameplan to punish a conditioned reaction. His F-tilt spacing was done in a way that covered specific defensive options. Little things like that added up to him being able to find openings that he could capitalize on.
 

A2ZOMG

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Alright, I've delayed this long enough, but as the day of the Wii-U Smash Bros game release passes, I will want some friends to help me level up my Ganon, given I know I am completely out of practice and in no shape to murder anyone else who has been putting in competitive effort. This is totally not in preparation for the upcoming online tournament. >.>

User name: @ A2ZOMG A2ZOMG
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Palette Colour: Standardorf
Message: Evil is cool. Ganondorf is the King of Cool.
 

A2ZOMG

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KoC

I don't know if I like this acronym :(

On a positive note, behold the trust Transitive Property of Evil.
That wasn't the intention...I never use "King of Evil" as an acronym given it has a better impact fully enunciated. True evil demands a strong command of language.
 
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