The awesome Jiggly stage stuff thread

-LzR-

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#1
So basically, I want to know all about the stages for Jigglypuff and how she does in them. Usually when I play puff, I just go Halberd because rest kills earlier (lol) and I think that might be stupid.
We need a bunch of pros and cons of each stage and who to cp there and who to ban against.
Also some nice tactics that work very well. Like if the stage has a large offstage portion or something like that.

I am not going to make any fancy graphical stuff here since I am not into that kinda stuff.
We will move on to a new stage when we are finished with the current one. I'll try to use Noob's style since I really liked it.

I say we first discuss Pokemon Stadium 1 since it wasn't discussed in the old stage thread and it's an interesting stage.




The rating:
Pros:
Cons:
CP:
Ban:
Other:

UPDATE:
People have suggested that we discuss the starters first.
So I decided we discuss FD, BF and SV now. They are the most common starters so we should discuss them. Please use the same format as above to make it easier for everyone.
Go go go :D
 
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#4
GrimTuesday, you better edit some content into that post soon. There's no need to reserve a post, especially in this thread.

PS1 is all right, but I feel it doesn't take advantage of her ability to adapt to stages. It's blastzones are fairly far, which can be good or bad. Against characters you can easily gimp, that extra off-stage zone give you more room to do so, while slightly delaying your own death. Hitting your opponent under the stage towards the center is also more effective than on most due to the wonky ledges. On the other hand, if gimping is not going to happen, I'd probably stay away from this stage. Farther blastzones tend to hurt Jiggs more than other characters since her lack of kill power is accentuated.

I wouldn't list this stage as a top CP for any character really. I don't think I'd ban it against anyone either.
 

-LzR-

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#5
I agree, it's kinda pointless stage for Jigglypuff. She shouldn't ever go there by any means anyway.
I don't see much, but the funny ledges just may help you edgeguard recoveries that require precision with the ledge of stuff like that. Also, some of the transformations allow you to camp if you have the lead.
The problem is, every character gains the same advantages. I don't really see much at all there.
 

ItoI6

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#7
In the windmill part of the level I like to camp under it and attempt to get a grab off to upthrow them into it and jablock. Be sure to have the windmill level to the ground so they dont bounce too far away. Also if you double jab against a wall it has barely enough knockback to knock'em into the ground to start a jablock. She can also platform camp fairly well in the original transformation. This is my favorite neutral stage because of all the shenanigans plus she can just camp in almost all of them.
 
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#8
Hey, I'm glad to see some good discussion going on here. :D

I'd like to give out some suggestions for this thread. It's not criticism, but I want to see this discussion work out.

Because activity is low around here, to make this work, you should discuss 2 or 3 stages at a time, and change these every week or so. This will give people plenty to talk about, yet still give some direction to the discussion.

I also think you should discuss the neutral stages first. I suggest this strongly. It is important for a player to know what stages to pick when stage striking. After all the stages are discussed (I think as many at a time as possible would be best here) we can take some time for a consensus to be made about what are Jiggs' strongest and weakest neutrals and create a list of what ones she should be striking first.

For neutrals, it would be easy to talk about them all at once, and we can get an idea of which ones are good and bad.

Are you guys yay or nay to this?
 

-LzR-

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#10
I didn't put neutrals like FD, BF or SV here because we have discussed those stages like a million times and there is nothing really about them except who to cp or ban there. Also, PS1 is a starter. I approve the idea of 2-3 stages at the same time.
 
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#11
I didn't mean to say that PS1 isn't a starter. I mean what I said as a 'continue in this direction' rather than a ' stop and start over' sort of suggestion.

Yes FD, BF, SV have been talked about to death, but for instance, is it better to always choose them over PS1 as a starter, PS1 over them, or some combination of both? I think its important to discuss the neutrals as a whole, since (as you said) individually they've been talked about as much as possible.
 
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#13
I kinda just said. We will get a discussion on how it compares to other stages. Talking about FD alone IS useless. We need to discuss the neutrals as a whole.

For example, the sarcastic post you just put down. Yes, bringing Snake and Falco are bad there, but it would be even worse to bring them to Halberd. Its important to see how they compare.
 

Kaptain

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#14
I find I like flat stages over some humped stages like Yoshi's Island against falco. A skilled falco is going to try and spam lazer, just duck below it. Then he's gonna try to either DACUS or Grab. Which point Spot dodge it and punish.

Also, Delfino Plaza is great for puffs. If you can get them in the water, feel free to rest at will. The water will wake you up upon contact. Also, so easy to approach from under the stage where they can't do much against you. It's always changing, which allows a Jiggs to mix it up so easily, and making it easier to camp them.
 

-LzR-

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#15
So yeah I have been very busy, but I am back again. I updated OP to include the 3 starters. Don't let it die guys!
 
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#19
Most jab locks "suck" for that reason. SDI'ing away means the damage from the lock is nothing to get over-excited about, unless they're against a wall. The more important thing about jab locks is, as you mentioned, the guaranteed follow-up.
 

-LzR-

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#20
Isn't it the range of the jab and the slow ground speed that make it only hit once before the lock ends? Since I don't think other locks end so early.
 
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#21
Oh I misread what you said... I thought you meant Jigglypuff can't double jab lock if they SDI, and can only get one jab each time.

I'm not sure if your opponent can SDI completely out of your range actually... seems unlikely to be honest, but what do I know.
 

ItoI6

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#22
It doesn't matter but what makes it so good on the stage is that the windmill and other walls can be endlessly jablocked against. Also jiggz uthrow comes out nearly instantaneously making it difficult to tech.
 

-LzR-

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#23
Well I once managed to do a jablock against Finland's best player. When I did a jab, he bounced and magically bounced a mile away so that I could only follow with a quick aerial or DA.
 
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#24
you can sdi out of jab locks, i do it all the time. Its like dash dancing with the bottem portion of the control stick, which is also how you dash dance with tap jump on when you have a really sensitive controller
 

-LzR-

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#25
Anyone interested in getting back on topic? I don't see anything worth discussing about the 3 stages. One should never pick those as we have much better stages to pick, but none of them is bad for us. k?
 
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#26
FD's ledges are kinda fun... drop and drift under the lip, then Rising pound towards the ledge will let you grab it.

Somebody find that vid about forced techs on BF's platforms? It might be cool to research at what percents we can force those techs on certain characters.
 

Noobicidal

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#28
Never heard of that forcing techs thing... So what exactly it is?
Let's say your opponent is shielding on a platform on Battlefield. It's possible to say, Uair them, and make them fall off of the platform. If they fail to tech the fall, you have a jab lock setup.

I know which video you're talking about T-block, but I'm a bit lazy to look for it.
 
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#29
I was talking about using Pound on a grounded opponent under the platform. If they're at the right percent, they can't get out of hitstun before falling onto the platform above them, so you know for sure they will tech/miss the tech, and you can follow up.

It nothing huge, and certainly not Battlefield specific, but I thought it was pretty neat. With Battlefield being a common stage, and platforms always being present at the same height, it might be worth looking into.
 

EraOfGames

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#30
I did test a bit of what you are talking about T-block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2jzMkM9PeQ
The problem is I think it's situational, since they can DI and it's % specific. You can punish them if they tech though. Also, I did those in training which has modified knockback compared to other modes, so I'd have to retest it in VS to be more accurate.

FD is my favorite neutral (counterpick now ain't it?) against non-camping characters. The lip can be a bit of a nuisance to some opponents, and Rollout seems to be more useful here since there's no other platforms.

BF is another stage I like, because it's kinda small so you don't have to worry about camping as much.

SV is ehh, not really anything useful.

I know it wasn't mentioned but Yoshi's Island is probably the worst neutral, since it helps characters with bad recoveries with the pop up platforms and all. Jiggs doesn't need them so it helps opponents more.

PS1 is meh like SV too since there's not too much benefical parts here. I've been able to use platforms well here though. The windmill part can be annoying because most characters can hit through the blades(?) better then puff can; hitboxes too small :(

Some of the stages might be better depending on how good you are with platforms.
 
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#31
Yay that's the vid I was talking about.

Yeah I know it's percent-specific and not guaranteed by any means, but I think knowing stuff like that would be pretty useful.

Something to note is that SV gives you quite a boost in stalling potential, same way it does for Meta Knight.
 

-LzR-

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#32
Time for some necromance magic...
HERB DEP HURPPA DURPA BÄRÄ BORA!

And now the thread has been animated back to life.

Let's just discuss anything stage related here.

I like JJ for Puff. Rollout can be spammed quite much there and the ledges cancel it yay.
 

EraOfGames

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#33
I think JJ is overrated for puff, though it's definetly useful sometimes. I pick it situationally against characters that have an advantage over Jiggs because of their vertical killing power since it has a high ceiling. The high ceiling has saved me against the monstrosity that is Snake's utilt several times before.

My favorite stage is Brinstar, because you can freaking shark EVERYWHERE, has uneven terrain (which puff is not really affected by being an aerial character), the lava which Jiggs can probably avoid better then any character, and the vegetation allows puff to unstale her moves if you have problems with stale fair.

Port Town is also an awesome stage assuming it's legal, because the platforms are very sharkable, and the lack of ledges can hurt other characters badly. This is also a very powerful counterpick just in general if you bother to learn how to avoid the obstacles because many people don't, and the penalty for getting hit by a car is rough.
 

EraOfGames

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#35
Most people ban Japes against me rather then Brinstar, lol

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289881
Postin this since it's stage related.. I'm quite aware it's for Kirby but works for Jigglypuff too.

tl;dr On the very end of stages with sloped edges, YI, Delfino, PS1, and Pictochat, Jiggs is short enough to throw items at the perfect angle to slide bananas and grenades across the stage, which is more then her normal throwing range. The naners also can't be shielded while sliding on the ground. Every character can do this, but most of them have to jump off stage and throw at a precise angle, while Jiggs and Kirby can just shield roll towards the very end and exploit their short height.

Pretty specific but the more you know..
 

Koric

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#37
Most jab locks "suck" for that reason. SDI'ing away means the damage from the lock is nothing to get over-excited about, unless they're against a wall. The more important thing about jab locks is, as you mentioned, the guaranteed follow-up.
Yeah. To me, its really bothering to even try to maintain a jab lock and won't be effective. The only method I heard that can pull off this lock is by use of falco's blaster.

I did heard a theory that a jab lock can be setup at brinstar and depending on the position, won't be interrupted until the acid rises
 

-LzR-

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#38
One jablock can lead to rest or something else so it's nice thing to have. Well jablocking with nair is better for that reason I guess.
 

Kaptain

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#39
As for stage stuff... I posted this before.... it got ignored... so ill post it again.

Counter pick delfino and pirate ship where legal. The water in those levels are a huge help. Once an oppenent is over the water... or in it... just rest. The moment you make contact with the water, your rest is cancled. Also, you can come up through the stage on delfino.
 

Kaptain

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#40
As for stage stuff... I posted this before.... it got ignored... so ill post it again.

Counter pick delfino and pirate ship where legal. The water in those levels are a huge help. Once an oppenent is over the water... or in it... just rest. The moment you make contact with the water, your rest is cancled. Also, you can come up through the stage on delfino.

Sorry for the double post. I did this on a phone and the touch screen messes up sometimes.
 
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