-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
The atheist's journey - Religious Debate for the mature
- Thread starter Bazooka Lucca
- Start date
- Status
The Best Ever
Smash Journeyman
yep
Well your post wasn't as logically flawed as his was. In the last post you said what you disagreed with the church on (opinion) and that's about it. Not much to argue on for me. That and I thought you were Mediocre.
Well your post wasn't as logically flawed as his was. In the last post you said what you disagreed with the church on (opinion) and that's about it. Not much to argue on for me. That and I thought you were Mediocre.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
God is the Alpha and Omega, he has no beginning or end. As long as he exists the universe exists. Its says in the bible that God's first creation was his son, Michael the Arc Angel, otherwise known as Jesus on earth. So even though its hard to comprehend how the universe started, the oldest history book we have is the Bible. There is no other book that explains what it was like before people came about.
And I try to keep telling you guys. Im not misguided or mislead, I have the road map to my success, I am not taking any imperfect mans suggestions, only Gods.
And I try to keep telling you guys. Im not misguided or mislead, I have the road map to my success, I am not taking any imperfect mans suggestions, only Gods.
God doesnt lie! If he did, then he wouldnt let Jesus die for our sins. That would be the perfect time to lie for him too because imagine seeing your son, brother, sister, dying in front of your own eyes, then denying his existence? You guys should do some research seriously, man is not a perfect being when it comes to understand all this logic thats why theres a book for us to refer too. People have died for the Bible, and you guys are disregarding it. And Im not making this stuff up, these things Im telling you, you guys should be familiar with since you post in this thread. Everything Im saying is from the Bible, but then your saying you dont believe in the Bible. You people dont appreciate it until there is a loved one in your family who dies or a friend. THink about it... Your ignoring the most Almighty God. And just cause you cant see his presence doesnt mean hes not there. You cant see gravity but you know its there. You cant see wind but you know its there. You cant see oxygen and other chemicals but you know its there. It just seems to me, that you guys dont care. Why is that?
Actually, although not a planet, one of Jupiter's moons, Europa, is supposed to have decent gravity and water underneath it's icy outer shield.
Don't think the Earth is the only livable planet in the universe. It's just the only one we've found and proven to be so (thus far).
And Superbus, if you took any offense at my post, I apologize. You were just starting to sound like CaliburChamp.
Also:
There's nothing nutty about it, he's GOD! He's always been there because he defies logic
.
snex
Smash Master
somebody please make calibur either participate in the DEBATE or leave this thread. i cant take much more of his ignorance of facts and refusal to produce any of his own.
The Best Ever
Smash Journeyman
aha
Or if you want we can look at it the other way. What do you believe more, what you see or what you don't. You can see the universe, but you can't see God. It would make more sense to believe in the universe that we can see always existing, than the God we have no proof of existing.
You're missing the point. Just because God DOESN'T lie (in some instances) doesn't mean he can't. I can also choose whether to lie or not, it depends on what I think will provide the best outcome. Why would God have to be governed by rules.
People have also died flying airplanes into buildings, that doesn't mean that the reason they did it held any merit, just because they died for it.
Well, only a fool believes everything he sees, and only a fool believes everything he doesn't see. I wouldn't say I believe in gravity as much as 'things fall or don't fall.' Same thing for God. The universe is here, as to how it got here, there are many theories.
Or if you want we can look at it the other way. What do you believe more, what you see or what you don't. You can see the universe, but you can't see God. It would make more sense to believe in the universe that we can see always existing, than the God we have no proof of existing.
I think I've got to agree with snex. CaliburChamp is clearly incapable of logical debate, instead choosing to spew religious dogma in barely legible run-on sentences when confronted with reason, much how a large dog with food poisoning would spew *** juice and vomit all over your brand new carpet.
He has no place here.
-Ninja
He has no place here.
-Ninja
The Best Ever
Smash Journeyman
blah
Be that as it may, at least he uses his posts to debate. (as I'm about to demonstrate how not to post in the Debate Hall.) Besides, if he wasn't here, this topic wouldn't be nearly as interesting.
Be that as it may, at least he uses his posts to debate. (as I'm about to demonstrate how not to post in the Debate Hall.) Besides, if he wasn't here, this topic wouldn't be nearly as interesting.
snex
Smash Master
please refer to rule 6 in the debate hall rules. every one of calibur's posts has broken it.
I can name a few other books. The Koran, for example, claims to be just as old as the Bible, and has just as much proof to back it up.
If the universe exists as long as God does, then wouldn't that mean that the universe is eternal?
Why the **** do you believe that? Because the Bible says so?
I've already had people close to me die. Notice that I still don't believe in God.
We have a little something called science which lends credence to gravity wind and oxygen. Science, although many Christians would disagree, does not support the existence of God at all.
Why would I care about something I don't believe exists?
Caliburchamp, as much as I appreciate help from a fellow Christian, you are kind of hurting the cause. You can't just call down hellfire and ****ation on aetheists. You also cannot just repeat stuff from the Bible either and expect people to believe it. That said, we are arguing a tough position. Since we cannot prove the existence of God, the best we can do is to try and disprove proofs of no God.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Hmm, listen to pathetic imperfect humans like you guys.....Or listen to God's Word the Bible.
I can tell that you guys are SO spiritually dead. No matter what I say, it bounces off you. This thread alone explains about you guys thoughts of morality and hope. If you dont believe in God you have no hope, no future, no meaning of life. Dont you want to see your family and friends again in the resurrection? You guys should really think this over, its a matter of life and death. No Johns!
I can tell that you guys are SO spiritually dead. No matter what I say, it bounces off you. This thread alone explains about you guys thoughts of morality and hope. If you dont believe in God you have no hope, no future, no meaning of life. Dont you want to see your family and friends again in the resurrection? You guys should really think this over, its a matter of life and death. No Johns!
Alrite buddy, quit the Jerimiad. This is a debate, not a pulpit. I'm Catholic and you're pissing me off. You come in here, in a DEBATE, and start spewing off reasons why everyone is going to burn. This is uneeded. Seriously, you are really hurting the cause. Please stop.
Of course, you aren't anything like that
.
CaliburChimp, if you don't stop berating us with your bullplop, I'm afraid I'm going to have to take the role of God and cast you into hellfire. That means I ban you.
A truly benevolent God would never condemn his creations for eternity. A benevolent God would give his creations a choice where the choice is ALWAYS available, even in death. Read The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis.
And christ, you're a twit. By the way, if you think you're created with a purpose, that kind of defeats free will, wouldn't you say?
Life's a ****ing adventure. Maps defeat the fun.
A truly benevolent God would never condemn his creations for eternity. A benevolent God would give his creations a choice where the choice is ALWAYS available, even in death. Read The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis.
And christ, you're a twit. By the way, if you think you're created with a purpose, that kind of defeats free will, wouldn't you say?
Life's a ****ing adventure. Maps defeat the fun.
Yeah, pretty much.
Oh, you're calling me pathetic? That's rather ironic. Anyway, belittling people is not really going to convince them. I don't think most Christians fling insults at people after they fail to convert them, so I'm guessing it's not church policy.
Yes, I would love to.
However, I value logic and rationality above faith, and therefore I don't believe it is going to happen.
I think all that it's shown is that most of us believe that morality and hope come from humans, and not some supernatural entity. To me, that seems like a good thing for humans, not a bad one.
It isn't, actually. Even from a Christian viewpoint, it's a matter of salvation or no salvation, not life or death. I'm confident I'll die either way.
I do not need God to give me hope, a future, or meaning. I will make those things for myself.
CaliburChamp, you need to realize something. You're not a missionary. We're not ignorant heathens. If you want to try to convert us, go ahead, but you won't accomplish it by preaching at us. If you could possibly convert us, it would have to be through empirical proof, logic and rationality. Those are the three things that compose my Bible, and without them, you will never convince me.
Goodnight.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Im not saying you guys are going to burn in hellfire. I dont believe in hellfire. h3LL means the Grave in Hebrew, the former language of the Bible. Its just that you wont get a hope of the ressurection if you do die.
And not everything is logical to the human, only God could see all forms of logic. Im sorry if it seems like if Im going on the offensive, Im just trying to put up a good defense so I wont get affended. Sorry if Im making you guys pissed, Im not telling you to change, Im just giving my opinion. Ideas are fundamental to success. Anyways, human logic isnt always correct. Okay, Main things Im trying to say is:
1. If you ignore God thats like ignoring the very creation around you.
2. Human Logic is not always correct, especially when you conflict science logic with the Bible. Its gonna get your ideas no where.
3. Trying understand your own Logic theories about God will get you nowhere, your werent around when creation started, Gods word has been around then.
4. You need instruction to get you somewhere you want to go, if you want to please God listen to the Bible.
Im not trying to get you guys pissed, just telling you the facts, and of course I dont have my own opinion about this cause Im an imperfect person too. Therefore I heed what the Bible says and apply it in my life. You guys are entitled to your own opinion, its your fault if you get caught up in a bad situation one day because it was just decision. Is my point coming across, I think Ive been very clear.
And not everything is logical to the human, only God could see all forms of logic. Im sorry if it seems like if Im going on the offensive, Im just trying to put up a good defense so I wont get affended. Sorry if Im making you guys pissed, Im not telling you to change, Im just giving my opinion. Ideas are fundamental to success. Anyways, human logic isnt always correct. Okay, Main things Im trying to say is:
1. If you ignore God thats like ignoring the very creation around you.
2. Human Logic is not always correct, especially when you conflict science logic with the Bible. Its gonna get your ideas no where.
3. Trying understand your own Logic theories about God will get you nowhere, your werent around when creation started, Gods word has been around then.
4. You need instruction to get you somewhere you want to go, if you want to please God listen to the Bible.
Im not trying to get you guys pissed, just telling you the facts, and of course I dont have my own opinion about this cause Im an imperfect person too. Therefore I heed what the Bible says and apply it in my life. You guys are entitled to your own opinion, its your fault if you get caught up in a bad situation one day because it was just decision. Is my point coming across, I think Ive been very clear.
I think you meant to say this:
That's certainly what everything you say sounds like.
And by the way, I haven't seen a real fact from you yet. The best you've done is:
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Dude, that is what you want me to say. Stop interpretating my words into something I dont mean to say. I have shown you evidence but you just ignore it. At least my comments are sensible and guided by the Bible. When yours is just your own opinion. Understand?
See, CaliburChamp, we atheists don't see the Bible as proof. Our opinions are backed by evidence, but not Biblical evidence. Our opinions are backed by empirical evidence.
You accept the Bible as the authority.
We don't.
You accept the Bible as the authority.
We don't.
Right there is the primary difference between Christians and Aetheists. We have faith in things without proof. Although it may not seem logical, rational, et cetera, it works for us. Personally, I derive a lot of strength from my faith. I also seem to concentrate less on things like creation, biblical contradictions, and the end time, and more on the actual life messages in the Bible. Despite the fact that it is possible to follow those without believing in God, I find humility and comfort in believing in a higher power than myself. It is nice to believe that you have someone looking out for you
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
You guys seem confused to me. You believe in a greater entity but you dont believe in God. And you believe in proofs, but then you dont believe in proofs? Thats so puzzling its confusing!
Wrong. I don't believe in a greater entity.
I believe in actual proof. Like Superbus said, Christians believe in things with no evidence. Let me ask you, without the Bible, what evidence do you have of God? I'm not even saying it's bad that you have no evidence. If you need a religion to become a better person, by all means, believe what you want. But stop telling us you're giving us evidence when you're not. At least Superbus understands.
Hopefully this post cleared it up.
*EDIT* Post 4666!!! If only I had ten heads and seven horns!
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
I mentioned this a bunch. This is evidence not from the Bible. And this is it.
The Earth and all of its creation around you is proof already that there was a great mind behind all of this and that this wasnt just a consequence. And like all solid planets, earth started out as a world of fire, without that element there would be no crust on earth. Water could not appear when the Earth is on fire, so the earth would of had to cool down eventually. Now what could of put the element of water on earth? Planets like Mars where planets of fire until they cooled down. Where could of water come from if there was no atmosphere and when the planets were flaming? Somebody had to put water on the earth amd cultivate it into a liveable planet. Where could of the seeds of the trees come from? How did humans and animal come into existence?
Scientist believe that from the water was bacteria that evolved to create life. but how does bacteria create itself? How does water create itself?
This explains that there had to be a creator to make all these elements for life to exist. Everything was created by some Supreme being. There, I used Scientific evidence for ya peeps. I hope you realize that the creation around you is the very scientific evidence of the existence of God.
The Earth and all of its creation around you is proof already that there was a great mind behind all of this and that this wasnt just a consequence. And like all solid planets, earth started out as a world of fire, without that element there would be no crust on earth. Water could not appear when the Earth is on fire, so the earth would of had to cool down eventually. Now what could of put the element of water on earth? Planets like Mars where planets of fire until they cooled down. Where could of water come from if there was no atmosphere and when the planets were flaming? Somebody had to put water on the earth amd cultivate it into a liveable planet. Where could of the seeds of the trees come from? How did humans and animal come into existence?
Scientist believe that from the water was bacteria that evolved to create life. but how does bacteria create itself? How does water create itself?
This explains that there had to be a creator to make all these elements for life to exist. Everything was created by some Supreme being. There, I used Scientific evidence for ya peeps. I hope you realize that the creation around you is the very scientific evidence of the existence of God.
Wrong. Existence is not proof of a god.
Actually, the Earth started off as a giant ball of dust and gas. Over time, these components compacted to create the planet. When the center of the Earth was formed, lava did flow a bunch, yes, but it's not like the entire planet was covered in it.
That is correct.
Possibly... chemical reactions?
Also true.
First off, the planet wasn't "flaming" when water appeared. Where do you think morning dew comes from? Do you think God comes down from heaven every night to spread it on your lawn? No. Naturally, because of all atoms wanting to have 8 electrons in their outer shell (I don't mean a sentient "want" for it either), hydrogen and oxygen form very easily. It happens all the time, even today.
As I just explained, "somebody" had nothing to do with it.
From the trees before it. If you mean the first trees, they developed just like everything else, from bacteria which evolved into plants. Just like funguses evolved into what it is, and:
Evolved from bacteria.
There are multiple theories on this one, but it's hard to recreate a controlled environment that accurately mirrors primordial Earth. Most scientists think that involves carbon, and lots of electricity.
I just talked about that.
Congratulations, you've proven nothing.
Of course you'll come back with, "Well, the Bible is right," and completely ignore this post, but I hope you realize that the evolution around you is the very scientific evidence of the nonexistance of a god.
The evolution around isn't proof of anything. We've been unable to duplicate macro evolution, and that shows nothing as well. What it boils down to, is that evolution neither argues for or against God.
Here's why:
Non-Christians may say because we evolved, there was no creator, and the world all fits together because it formed one small step at a time.
Christians may say that the creator caused us to evolve, and the world all fits together because God created it and moved it along one small step at a time. The creationist argument can be presented as well (With its own sets of pros and cons), but there is a Christian evolutionary argument that exists.
These processes will look identical, and the argument only varies based on the assumption of God. I don't believe you will ever find a scientific way to prove or disprove God, because that's never been how He's worked.
On a related but off topic note, if you challenge God to show His existence to you, He tends to take you up on it. You do have to be serious about the challenge though. (Topic of proof of God, that is)
Here's why:
Non-Christians may say because we evolved, there was no creator, and the world all fits together because it formed one small step at a time.
Christians may say that the creator caused us to evolve, and the world all fits together because God created it and moved it along one small step at a time. The creationist argument can be presented as well (With its own sets of pros and cons), but there is a Christian evolutionary argument that exists.
These processes will look identical, and the argument only varies based on the assumption of God. I don't believe you will ever find a scientific way to prove or disprove God, because that's never been how He's worked.
On a related but off topic note, if you challenge God to show His existence to you, He tends to take you up on it. You do have to be serious about the challenge though. (Topic of proof of God, that is)
snex
Smash Master
this is not the issue here. the issue is solely evolution vs creation. evolutionists are saying nothing about god at all, they are simply giving a factual account of how things most likely happened according to the evidence. creationists are denying this evidence and taking the genesis myth literally.
also, atheists challenge god more than anything, so why are they still atheists? the problem is this:
just because a booming voice comes down from the sky and threatens to send me to **** does not prove it is god doing the speaking. it may be a more powerful being than i, but who is to say it is the MOST powerful being?
edit: whoops, wrong topic. **** you saloob for making me think this was EvC! still, my second point applies. its just not possible to prove god, therefore there is no valid reason to believe in him.
There's a lot of things it's not possible to prove. We can't prove how thoughts work, in fact they seem to be remarkebly independent of the chemical reactions in the brain. Would you like to say that because we can't prove why we can think, that we're not really thinking?
Life is full of assumptions that can't be proven, the fact that something can't be tested scientifically doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And my last statement still stands: While it's impossible to prove God, if you seriously challenge Him to prove Himself...you'll find out if He exists or not. You do have to be serious about it, God doesn't play games. Do you really care to find out? Try it, if you do.
Life is full of assumptions that can't be proven, the fact that something can't be tested scientifically doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And my last statement still stands: While it's impossible to prove God, if you seriously challenge Him to prove Himself...you'll find out if He exists or not. You do have to be serious about it, God doesn't play games. Do you really care to find out? Try it, if you do.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Heh, about the theory of how bacteria came about. Scientist say it was formed from Carbon and Electricity? Then where does Carbon and Electricity come from? There had to be some kind of powerful force that could control all these elements and minerals to cultivate life. And scientists dont know the facts, all their information is related on their own opinion. If you guys believe in God, it would make things so much more believeable to you. Read the Bible and learn, God was around before men, so its only natural that he has the best information available to us during the times we were not created. Its Common sense.
The Best Ever
Smash Journeyman
blah
But you're still saying it from a position that God exists, which completely defeats the purpose. The fact remeains that even if the carbon came from nowhere, so did God. Both ways don't really make any sense from our standpoint. Besides that, religion is opinion too, it's not a fact. You must know that science based on facts far more than religion is.
snex
Smash Master
where did you get this? when electrodes are hooked up to the brain, and people are asked to think about particular things (their phone number, a math problem, etc), different patterns appear that can be grouped together according to the type of thinking required. next time do some research before making up an assumption and posting it here.
calibur: its not really that hard to understand. chemical theory states that atoms will form structures in which they are most stable. peptides are very stable, and form quite easily on their own. several peptides together can form an amino acid, and many amino acids are self-replicating. also, many amino acids can form together to form other self-replicating substances (RNA, DNA). its just a matter of time before these things randomly appear, being that they are very stable chemically. and once they do appear, the fact that they are self-replicating allows them to recreate themselves as much as they want.
Not just Carbon and Electricity, I was just being general. There is assumed to be thousands of factors that came together at the right moment to create life.
Well, Carbon comes from atoms that have six electrons swirling around it, as opposed to five electrons (Boron), four electrons (Beryllium), etc. etc. These are naturally forming atoms, they are what originally made up the Earth.
Wrong. See above.
I can't believe you said this.
Tell me, which part of your argument is not an opinion? Oh wait, I know the answer to that, it's nothing. You ave presented 0 facts proving anything, while we've gone to different sources for information. You have one source, the Bible. Can't you see how flawed that is? Scientists may not have all the facts yet, but they're working on it, which is more than Christianity will ever do.
It would be believable, sure, but we'd be believing lies.
You've said nothing that is common sense, and your best argument to date is "The Bible is right because it obviously is."
Please, just stop posting, or educate yourself on our arguments before posting again. All you do is spout religious nonsense.
The Best Ever
Smash Journeyman
blah
McFox and Snex, about the carbon and stuff, I think he isn't saying where did carbon itself come from, but where the atoms came from in the first place to form into elements.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you guys completely. Still, you have to admire that sort of blind faith. If religion has that kind of effect on people, there's definately some powerful force going on.
McFox and Snex, about the carbon and stuff, I think he isn't saying where did carbon itself come from, but where the atoms came from in the first place to form into elements.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you guys completely. Still, you have to admire that sort of blind faith. If religion has that kind of effect on people, there's definately some powerful force going on.
snex
Smash Master
the best ever, yeah, its called human stupidity.
when somebody can tell me where god came from, ill tell them where matter came from.
when somebody can tell me where god came from, ill tell them where matter came from.
MasterFoot
Smash Journeyman
is it just me, or do you find the more intellegent people on the Evolutionary side of the debates here in Smashworld? McFox is clearly more intellegent then Calibur Champ. People need religion such as Cristianity as crutch because they cant face the reality of death, and not knowing where they are going and where they came from.
And the powerful force you are talking about is Ignorance, or Stupidity.
The "Big Bang" which many people confuse with an explosion, is really the source of all matter. there was a very lengthy essay on this topic ripped from a website in these forums last year but it was recently closed and deleted.
And the powerful force you are talking about is Ignorance, or Stupidity.
MasterFoot
Smash Journeyman
is it just me, or do you find the more intellegent people on the Evolutionary side of the debates here in Smashworld? McFox is clearly more intellegent then Calibur Champ. People need religion such as Cristianity as crutch because they cant face the reality of death, and not knowing where they are going and where they came from.
And the powerful force you are talking about is Ignorance, or Stupidity.
The "Big Bang" which many people confuse with an explosion, is really the source of all matter. there was a very lengthy essay on this topic ripped from a website in these forums last year but it was recently closed and deleted.
And the powerful force you are talking about is Ignorance, or Stupidity.
MasterFoot
Smash Journeyman
one of my few double posts...
Triple post .
I wouldn't say we're more intelligent people, per se, it's just that CaliburChamp has and will only use one source, the Bible, whose authenticity both historically and spiritually is questionable at best. Meanwhile, the rest of us choose to use science for our facts. If I used the Bible as a source, I'd sound like CaliburChamp.
*EDIT* I meant to say "wouldn't" earlier.
.I wouldn't say we're more intelligent people, per se, it's just that CaliburChamp has and will only use one source, the Bible, whose authenticity both historically and spiritually is questionable at best. Meanwhile, the rest of us choose to use science for our facts. If I used the Bible as a source, I'd sound like CaliburChamp.
*EDIT* I meant to say "wouldn't" earlier.
I'll just note, historical accuracy of the Bible is better than pretty much any other document of antiquity, including all the writings we have of Plato. But for some reason, we trust those to be what was actually written, and people are very skeptical of the Bible. As well as the fact that archeological findings have all supported the Bible, enough that it's considered a tool for archeology in certain areas.
I can get some numbers if you need them, although they're remarkably easy to find.
As far as thoughts, all we have are patterns in the brain. I haven't heard of anyone being able to show how chemicals translate into thinking. Knowing where the brain does its work, and knowing how it does its work are two entirely seperate things. Please read what I'm talking about before flaming.
I can get some numbers if you need them, although they're remarkably easy to find.
As far as thoughts, all we have are patterns in the brain. I haven't heard of anyone being able to show how chemicals translate into thinking. Knowing where the brain does its work, and knowing how it does its work are two entirely seperate things. Please read what I'm talking about before flaming.
- Status