Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
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The "Ask ChuDat" thread!
- Thread starter ChuDat
- Start date
ChuDat
Smash Master
I'm sorry about the delay, I'm really busy with school but I'm going to try really hard to answer everyone's questions 
Wumbo105 -
Against Diddy Kong, you want to grab bananas and use them against him. Here are some small tricks I do with Bananas.
1. As soon as Diddy pulls a banana out, grab the banana with Z.
2. Float above him, he'll probably try to up-air you. You can throw the banana at him then back air. It's a good combo and it feels pretty good haha.
3. When you're standing around with the banana, short jump and throw the banana at him. As the banana hits his sheild, you can up air his shield (I use neutral air, but up air is easier for spacing) as you fall down. Back up, make sure he can't shield grab you
Hmm lets see... back air pretty much beats anything he has. If he's off stage, back air him. He'll try to diddy hump you. Space and back air. He'll also try to forward air you. Space and back air.
If he's recovering from below the stage/ledge, then you can fall down with a neutral air and gimp his recovery. Timing is key here. Smart Diddy Kongs will wait until you let go of the ledge to recover. Predict when he will Up-B and neutral air him.
Against Ice Climbers, you should pick up Ice Climbers. Here's some tips that will give you the edge.
1. Forward b is really good against them. Sets them up for up air combos. You can also wait for their airdodge and down smash them for 40%.
2. Jab is really good to space your self and give your self some breathing room
3. Grab with popo and smash with nana at high percent. You don't need to learn chain grab tricksies but it would be good if you did for lower percent kills.
4. Chaingrabbing both of them is possible at low percent. Downthrow --> downthrow --> downthrow -->
5. If they camp with blizzard, wait for their blizzard, jump, and blizzard them.
6. Forward smash is really good to catch their side b recovery.
Here's a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYR_GZiLJ94
8 minutes in
If you don't want to pick up Ice Climbers, then here are a few things you can do to Ice Climbers.
1. Don't back air
2. If you know they will shield, inhale and immediately spit them out. They can't grab you while you are holding someone in your mouth.
3. Perfect Forward airs. You can use forward air on them, but make sure they have no lag. An easy way to do this is to slide from the A button to the X or Y button. Go in, then out.
4. Camp
5. Ledge camp with Up-Bs
6. If you manage to get an up-tilt on them at an early percent, follow up with back air. They'll probably air dodge at this point so you should either down smash or forward smash.
7. Space
If you follow those steps, it should make the match-up easier for you.
My method of Smash DI-ing is I hold the control stick up wards and I mash up on the c-stick. That doesn't work. Look,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDaYvyvd7M
12 seconds in
How does quarter circle DI work?
I have to go, but I'll pick up where I left off
Wumbo105 -
Against Diddy Kong, you want to grab bananas and use them against him. Here are some small tricks I do with Bananas.
1. As soon as Diddy pulls a banana out, grab the banana with Z.
2. Float above him, he'll probably try to up-air you. You can throw the banana at him then back air. It's a good combo and it feels pretty good haha.
3. When you're standing around with the banana, short jump and throw the banana at him. As the banana hits his sheild, you can up air his shield (I use neutral air, but up air is easier for spacing) as you fall down. Back up, make sure he can't shield grab you
Hmm lets see... back air pretty much beats anything he has. If he's off stage, back air him. He'll try to diddy hump you. Space and back air. He'll also try to forward air you. Space and back air.
If he's recovering from below the stage/ledge, then you can fall down with a neutral air and gimp his recovery. Timing is key here. Smart Diddy Kongs will wait until you let go of the ledge to recover. Predict when he will Up-B and neutral air him.
Against Ice Climbers, you should pick up Ice Climbers. Here's some tips that will give you the edge.
1. Forward b is really good against them. Sets them up for up air combos. You can also wait for their airdodge and down smash them for 40%.
2. Jab is really good to space your self and give your self some breathing room
3. Grab with popo and smash with nana at high percent. You don't need to learn chain grab tricksies but it would be good if you did for lower percent kills.
4. Chaingrabbing both of them is possible at low percent. Downthrow --> downthrow --> downthrow -->
5. If they camp with blizzard, wait for their blizzard, jump, and blizzard them.
6. Forward smash is really good to catch their side b recovery.
Here's a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYR_GZiLJ94
8 minutes in
If you don't want to pick up Ice Climbers, then here are a few things you can do to Ice Climbers.
1. Don't back air
2. If you know they will shield, inhale and immediately spit them out. They can't grab you while you are holding someone in your mouth.
3. Perfect Forward airs. You can use forward air on them, but make sure they have no lag. An easy way to do this is to slide from the A button to the X or Y button. Go in, then out.
4. Camp
5. Ledge camp with Up-Bs
6. If you manage to get an up-tilt on them at an early percent, follow up with back air. They'll probably air dodge at this point so you should either down smash or forward smash.
7. Space
If you follow those steps, it should make the match-up easier for you.
My method of Smash DI-ing is I hold the control stick up wards and I mash up on the c-stick. That doesn't work. Look,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDaYvyvd7M
12 seconds in
How does quarter circle DI work?
I have to go, but I'll pick up where I left off
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
Very interesting...using ICs to counter ICs. I like it.
The Diddy tips seem easy on paper, lets see how well I can apply em.
Thanks Chu.
The Diddy tips seem easy on paper, lets see how well I can apply em.
Thanks Chu.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Haha, I love that video! 
STONE COLD STUNNER!
You got the right idea on the smash DI but the game doesn't read the c-stick if it's being tapped in the same direction your holding the control stick.
To smash DI upwards hold the control stick upwards to the left (upper left corner) and tap the C-stick upwards to the right (upper right corner).
Here check this out!
What is quarter circle DI? Ummm, hmmm ever play Street Fighter and done a hadoken? Haha, ok that's confusing but the first minute of this video pretty much lets you know what quarter-circle SDI is:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKVWkbSMTvI
They say Dual Stick SDI (what you seem to already do) is superior to quarter-circle SDI. So this is just food for thought.
I hope I didn't just throw a lot towards ya man. Good luck with the busy schedules.
STONE COLD STUNNER!You got the right idea on the smash DI but the game doesn't read the c-stick if it's being tapped in the same direction your holding the control stick.
To smash DI upwards hold the control stick upwards to the left (upper left corner) and tap the C-stick upwards to the right (upper right corner).
Here check this out!
You can click the quote to see the whole written report on it but the main idea is all right there.To do... | Do this... | or this...
Dual Stick SDI Up:|Hold> Tap
Repeatedly|Hold
> Tap
Repeatedly
Dual Stick SDI Right:|Hold> TapRepeatedly|Hold
> Tap
Repeatedly
Dual Stick SDI Left:|Hold> TapRepeatedly|Hold
> Tap
Repeatedly
Dual Stick SDI Down:|Hold> TapRepeatedly|Hold> TapRepeatedly
What is quarter circle DI? Ummm, hmmm ever play Street Fighter and done a hadoken? Haha, ok that's confusing but the first minute of this video pretty much lets you know what quarter-circle SDI is:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKVWkbSMTvI
They say Dual Stick SDI (what you seem to already do) is superior to quarter-circle SDI. So this is just food for thought.
I hope I didn't just throw a lot towards ya man. Good luck with the busy schedules.
MikeKirby explained it amazingly well (thanks to the Smash Lab of course ). That might be a good detail for you to practice on Chu, it would definitely make life easier in tourney matches.
). That might be a good detail for you to practice on Chu, it would definitely make life easier in tourney matches.
Vinylic.
Woke?
I second that. He's hard to defeat.
Magma Dolphin
Smash Apprentice
Is there a way to consistently hit with the spike box of final cutter on recovering opponents as seen at 2:06 in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-dLeGd8BEA&feature=related? I usually hit with the blade and then the shock wave prevents the spike from taking effect.
ChuDat
Smash Master
Wow, it's almost been a month since I last posted. Well, better late than never!
As of now, Kirby's still fun because he can copy peoples abilities, transforming Kirby into a new character. I'm never bored with him because I have a lot of options.
MK -
1. Read what I said in one of my earlier posts.
2. This one is hard. If they are at about 12%, Grab --> Forward Throw --> Wait --> Upair + Fast fall --> Full jump --> Upair. This works vs. Kirby and lots of other characters. I think I'll call this the Chu combo for now. Conceptually, what you are doing is you're predicting their second jump and upairing them for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NkiY8YY5RE
@3:48
3. At higher percents, you can Down throw --> Up-Air. This will only work on Metaknights that like to jump after you down throw them. Sanoscy, a MK player, had a bad habit of jumping every time I down threw him. I noticed this and punished with an up-air. He never broke that habit which led to me beating him pretty solidly.
Snake -
1.Gonzo combo.
2.Pro snakes will grenade when you are combo-ing them . After the forward throw, re-grab them and if you have controller port priority, down throw snake into the grenade. Snake will get hit by the grenade, fly into the air, and should be in up air range. So that's forward throw --> do nothing --> grab --> downthrow --> grenade --> upair. That's about 50%.
3. If you don't have priority, forward throw again after the first forward throw. The grenade should be sitting right below you. After the second forward throw, use an upair, then immediately SHIELD. The grenade should blow up here, and with the right timing, snake will get hit and you'll be safe from damage.
4. At low-lowermid percent, down throw --> up tilt --> up air
Diddy -
1. Gonzo combo
2. If they get out of the Gonzo combo, do the Chu combo. You can then be creative with your follow up here. Fall down with another up air, fastfall and uptilt, wait to grab him, neutral air while both of you are still in the air and forward smash. I'll post up a video of me doing this to a Diddy later.
Wario -
1. Gonzo combo
2. Grab release --> upsmash
3. Chu combo
G&W -
1. Gonzo combo, but only the first two parts (forward throw to up-air)
Falco/Fox/Wolf -
1. Forward throw --> up air --> forward throw --> Side B. It's been tested to work almost 100% of the time on Falco, but I haven't fought a Fox or Wolf in a long time, but I imagine this should work.
Quick note - When you Side B, make sure you are mashing the B button so that Falco/Fox/Wolf can't jump out. If you're pro, then buffer the side-b.
Dedede -
This one is tough
1. First two hits of the Gonzo combo
2. Try the Chu combo, it'll probably work the first time but not the next time. It's all about mind games here. Watch for his air dodge.
3. At high percent, if you forward throw and they DI up, then you can up air them. They should be in stun long enough to hit them.
4. Forward throw at low-mid percent will sometimes combo into a Forward air string depending on DI. So it's forward air--> forward air --> Fair --> Fair --> Uair
ZSS -
Nothing works here because of ZSS's down B.
1. It's been a while, but you could try Forward throw --> Wait for her Down B --> Jump, turnaround, air hammer.
2. Maybe you could try down throw --> uptilt? ZSS can down B out of anything.
Olimar -
1. First two hits of the gonzo combo
DK -
1. Fthrow --> Uair --> Forward throw --> Uair --> Anything. Grab again, reverse up tilt, aerial hammer instead of up air.
Rob -
Most of the rob players I've fought are below average players so I don't have pro experience.
1. Gonzo combo, might not work on pro players but first two hits should be guaranteed.
2. Chu combo
Pikachu -
1. Look at Metaknight #1
2. First two hit of Gonzo combo
Marth - This one is tricky. Combo-ing Marth out of a grab is about mind games. A Marth that knows the match-up will Up-B after forward throw. A Marth that doesn't know the match-up won't Up-B, so you should
1. Gonzo combo - First two hits should work, try the full combo though because people will still fall for it.
Lucario -
1. First two hits of Gonzo Combo. You can probably pull off the whole Gonzo Combo here if they are inexperienced.
Too many characters but just remember forward throw --> up air should work on almost everyone as well as downthrow --> up-tilt (I'm pretty sure this will work when the opponent has about 12%. Too low, and the opponent will be able to hit you. Too high and the up-tilt won't work. Some players like to downthrow --> up-tilt --> sheild --> grab --> downthrow --> ect. I've never tried it my self, but you can try it out. Ask me if you want me to cover a character I haven't covered.
Btw, thanks for the help with Smash DI! I can Smash DI now =).
Against MK at 0%, I like to run in and shield. I'll always go for the grab here unless I'm getting punished. After I get the grab, the fun starts.
Forward throw --> up-air then stop since the full gonzo combo doesn't work anymore. The MK is usually at about 14% here. The MK will usually jump away and down air. When you see him fall to the ground, run in and shield again. Grab him, then you can start another combo. Downthrow --> uptilt --> upair. You have to buffer the up-tilt AND up-air for it to work. MK should be at 50% here. Now, it's all about mind games and spacing.
When you're spacing against MK, you want to space with back air since it's Kirbys best move. Make sure you are fast falling those back airs for speed. If he blocks the back air, he'll probably start up-bing you. When you see this, instead of back airing his shield, you should jump in front of him and grab. Remember to always down throw since it does the most damage. One more tip you can do against MK is when is at kill percent, back air his shield. When his shield gets back aired, he'll try to grab you. That's when you FORWARD SMASH for the kill!. Rinse, wash, and repeat.
Here are some tips -
1. Kirbys back air can beat MKs forward air when MK doesn't space correctly (which 90% of MKs don't)
2. Use up-air against MK when he's in the air. Up-air will usually hit because MK's don't know the spacing for their down air against Kirbys up-airs.
3. Predict MK's second jump with an up-air.
4. If the MK is aggressive, he'll try to run at you. If you see this, grab him immediately.
5. Punish tornado with forward smash.
6. Up-air is REALLY GOOD in this match-up.
Ok, so the last time we left off was the Ice Climbers match-up. Here are some more random thoughts about it.
- If you separate them and you see Nana coming your way, charge a forward smash to kill her. Nana will always try to run towards Popo if separated. If Popo is on the left side of the stage and Nana is on the right, she'll most likely run across the stage to be with Popo again. If you see Nana running towards you, charge a smash attack and kill her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RjG0Khgjis
@1:48
- Spaced back airs out range most of Ice Climbers moves but don't abuse it because IC's can power shield back airs pretty easily which leads to a grab.
- If you grab Popo (the main one), then you should down throw. Down throw will not only hit Popo but it'll hit Nana as well, and it's the throw that is least punishable. If you grab Nana, you should probably pummel until she breaks out so you don't get grabbed. Pummeling will also hit the main one.
Advanced: If Popo is behind you and you grab Nana, try your best to not get punished. Noob IC players will probably do a dash attack, so down throw so it hits Popo as well. If you're fighting a good ice climber player, then up throw so he can't grab you (you will take damage here, but it's better than being 0-death).
- Don't use laggy moves that could get you punished by a 0-death. (Dash attack, ect..). - If you somehow separate them, make sure you kill nana if you can, but watch out for popo. (If nana is in the air, get her with an aerial hammer. Back air is good too)
- If none of this works, you might want to ask Y.B.M. on this match-up since he beat Lain in tournament.
.
-Roll behind him a lot, especially if he uses dancing blade because you can punish with a grab or forward smash. Marth surprisingly has a hard time against rolling.
-Down tilt has a lot of range against marth for some reason, and can sometimes beat Marths moves. After a trip, grab, but if you are in range, forward smash!
- Back air pushes him back when he's in sheild which gives marth a hard time punishing. This can give Kirby more control of the game.
- RUN UP AND SHIELD. If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's a small explanation. Marths like to throw out moves like fair, down tilt, and dancing blade. If you run towards him and shield his attack, you'll be in a good position to grab him. For example, if a Marth is double forward air camping you, run towards him and shield the first hit. Marth will be in stun for a little bit which gives you enough time to drop your shield, run towards him again (he'll retreat with another forward air at this point) and shield the second forward air. Now you are in a position to grab him. So do it and profit $$$$$$.
- You can try to smash DI his dancing blade so that you appear behind him.
Here are videos of me vs. the best marths in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg06uhB4BEI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9aw8vpxA8
I'm sorry about the late response guys. Don't worry though, I haven't given up on the thread and I look forward to answering all of your questions!
Thanks! I tried a lot of different characters out. Ivysaur, Sonic, Ness, and even Falco because he was top tier. None of them felt right. I met Gonzo at a tournament and we started playing. He showed me how to use Kirby, and I was like "wow, Kirbys pretty good". A week later, I went to another tournament and saw an Ike player by the name of DT. It's the same Ike player that beat me at that Gamestop tournament. I used Kirby on him and beat him pretty solidly. It was a lot of fun using the gonzo combo on everyone because no one knew how to get out of it.
As of now, Kirby's still fun because he can copy peoples abilities, transforming Kirby into a new character. I'm never bored with him because I have a lot of options.
Tough question but I'll give it some thought.
MK -
1. Read what I said in one of my earlier posts.
2. This one is hard. If they are at about 12%, Grab --> Forward Throw --> Wait --> Upair + Fast fall --> Full jump --> Upair. This works vs. Kirby and lots of other characters. I think I'll call this the Chu combo for now. Conceptually, what you are doing is you're predicting their second jump and upairing them for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NkiY8YY5RE
@3:48
3. At higher percents, you can Down throw --> Up-Air. This will only work on Metaknights that like to jump after you down throw them. Sanoscy, a MK player, had a bad habit of jumping every time I down threw him. I noticed this and punished with an up-air. He never broke that habit which led to me beating him pretty solidly.
Snake -
1.Gonzo combo.
2.Pro snakes will grenade when you are combo-ing them . After the forward throw, re-grab them and if you have controller port priority, down throw snake into the grenade. Snake will get hit by the grenade, fly into the air, and should be in up air range. So that's forward throw --> do nothing --> grab --> downthrow --> grenade --> upair. That's about 50%.
3. If you don't have priority, forward throw again after the first forward throw. The grenade should be sitting right below you. After the second forward throw, use an upair, then immediately SHIELD. The grenade should blow up here, and with the right timing, snake will get hit and you'll be safe from damage.
4. At low-lowermid percent, down throw --> up tilt --> up air
Diddy -
1. Gonzo combo
2. If they get out of the Gonzo combo, do the Chu combo. You can then be creative with your follow up here. Fall down with another up air, fastfall and uptilt, wait to grab him, neutral air while both of you are still in the air and forward smash. I'll post up a video of me doing this to a Diddy later.
Wario -
1. Gonzo combo
2. Grab release --> upsmash
3. Chu combo
G&W -
1. Gonzo combo, but only the first two parts (forward throw to up-air)
Falco/Fox/Wolf -
1. Forward throw --> up air --> forward throw --> Side B. It's been tested to work almost 100% of the time on Falco, but I haven't fought a Fox or Wolf in a long time, but I imagine this should work.
Quick note - When you Side B, make sure you are mashing the B button so that Falco/Fox/Wolf can't jump out. If you're pro, then buffer the side-b
.Dedede -
This one is tough
1. First two hits of the Gonzo combo
2. Try the Chu combo, it'll probably work the first time but not the next time. It's all about mind games here. Watch for his air dodge.
3. At high percent, if you forward throw and they DI up, then you can up air them. They should be in stun long enough to hit them.
4. Forward throw at low-mid percent will sometimes combo into a Forward air string depending on DI. So it's forward air--> forward air --> Fair --> Fair --> Uair
ZSS -
Nothing works here because of ZSS's down B.
1. It's been a while, but you could try Forward throw --> Wait for her Down B --> Jump, turnaround, air hammer.
2. Maybe you could try down throw --> uptilt? ZSS can down B out of anything.
Olimar -
1. First two hits of the gonzo combo
DK -
1. Fthrow --> Uair --> Forward throw --> Uair --> Anything. Grab again, reverse up tilt, aerial hammer instead of up air.
Rob -
Most of the rob players I've fought are below average players so I don't have pro experience.
1. Gonzo combo, might not work on pro players but first two hits should be guaranteed.
2. Chu combo
Pikachu -
1. Look at Metaknight #1
2. First two hit of Gonzo combo
Marth - This one is tricky. Combo-ing Marth out of a grab is about mind games. A Marth that knows the match-up will Up-B after forward throw. A Marth that doesn't know the match-up won't Up-B, so you should
1. Gonzo combo - First two hits should work, try the full combo though because people will still fall for it.
Lucario -
1. First two hits of Gonzo Combo. You can probably pull off the whole Gonzo Combo here if they are inexperienced.
Too many characters but just remember forward throw --> up air should work on almost everyone as well as downthrow --> up-tilt (I'm pretty sure this will work when the opponent has about 12%. Too low, and the opponent will be able to hit you. Too high and the up-tilt won't work. Some players like to downthrow --> up-tilt --> sheild --> grab --> downthrow --> ect. I've never tried it my self, but you can try it out. Ask me if you want me to cover a character I haven't covered.
haha so you noticed? Well, I've never been really trying to get good at brawl up until now so playing with it off allows me to up-tilt out of shield, which is really good. Also, sometimes pressing up makes me accidentally jump =(. I hated that so I'm playing with it off now.
Btw, thanks for the help with Smash DI! I can Smash DI now =).
Metaknight
Against MK at 0%, I like to run in and shield. I'll always go for the grab here unless I'm getting punished. After I get the grab, the fun starts
.Forward throw --> up-air then stop since the full gonzo combo doesn't work anymore. The MK is usually at about 14% here. The MK will usually jump away and down air. When you see him fall to the ground, run in and shield again. Grab him, then you can start another combo. Downthrow --> uptilt --> upair. You have to buffer the up-tilt AND up-air for it to work. MK should be at 50% here. Now, it's all about mind games and spacing.
When you're spacing against MK, you want to space with back air since it's Kirbys best move. Make sure you are fast falling those back airs for speed. If he blocks the back air, he'll probably start up-bing you. When you see this, instead of back airing his shield, you should jump in front of him and grab. Remember to always down throw since it does the most damage. One more tip you can do against MK is when is at kill percent, back air his shield. When his shield gets back aired, he'll try to grab you. That's when you FORWARD SMASH for the kill!
. Rinse, wash, and repeat. Here are some tips -
1. Kirbys back air can beat MKs forward air when MK doesn't space correctly (which 90% of MKs don't)
2. Use up-air against MK when he's in the air. Up-air will usually hit because MK's don't know the spacing for their down air against Kirbys up-airs.
3. Predict MK's second jump with an up-air.
4. If the MK is aggressive, he'll try to run at you. If you see this, grab him immediately.
5. Punish tornado with forward smash.
6. Up-air is REALLY GOOD in this match-up.
Ice Climbers
Ok, so the last time we left off was the Ice Climbers match-up. Here are some more random thoughts about it.
- If you separate them and you see Nana coming your way, charge a forward smash to kill her. Nana will always try to run towards Popo if separated. If Popo is on the left side of the stage and Nana is on the right, she'll most likely run across the stage to be with Popo again. If you see Nana running towards you, charge a smash attack and kill her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RjG0Khgjis
@1:48
- Spaced back airs out range most of Ice Climbers moves but don't abuse it because IC's can power shield back airs pretty easily which leads to a grab.
- If you grab Popo (the main one), then you should down throw. Down throw will not only hit Popo but it'll hit Nana as well, and it's the throw that is least punishable. If you grab Nana, you should probably pummel until she breaks out so you don't get grabbed. Pummeling will also hit the main one.
Advanced: If Popo is behind you and you grab Nana, try your best to not get punished. Noob IC players will probably do a dash attack, so down throw so it hits Popo as well. If you're fighting a good ice climber player, then up throw so he can't grab you (you will take damage here, but it's better than being 0-death).
- Don't use laggy moves that could get you punished by a 0-death. (Dash attack, ect..). - If you somehow separate them, make sure you kill nana if you can, but watch out for popo. (If nana is in the air, get her with an aerial hammer. Back air is good too)
- If none of this works, you might want to ask Y.B.M. on this match-up since he beat Lain in tournament.
That was probably a friendly. I'll have to fight him in tournament sometime
.Unfortunately I don't =(. If you ever see me at a tournament, feel free to ask me to play!
OK it seems like a lot of you are having trouble with Marth. This is what you do.
-Roll behind him a lot, especially if he uses dancing blade because you can punish with a grab or forward smash. Marth surprisingly has a hard time against rolling.
-Down tilt has a lot of range against marth for some reason, and can sometimes beat Marths moves. After a trip, grab, but if you are in range, forward smash!
- Back air pushes him back when he's in sheild which gives marth a hard time punishing. This can give Kirby more control of the game.
- RUN UP AND SHIELD. If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's a small explanation. Marths like to throw out moves like fair, down tilt, and dancing blade. If you run towards him and shield his attack, you'll be in a good position to grab him. For example, if a Marth is double forward air camping you, run towards him and shield the first hit. Marth will be in stun for a little bit which gives you enough time to drop your shield, run towards him again (he'll retreat with another forward air at this point) and shield the second forward air. Now you are in a position to grab him. So do it and profit $$$$$$.
- You can try to smash DI his dancing blade so that you appear behind him.
Here are videos of me vs. the best marths in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg06uhB4BEI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9aw8vpxA8
Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for that. I'll look into it and let you know what I find!
I'm sorry about the late response guys. Don't worry though, I haven't given up on the thread and I look forward to answering all of your questions!
aqua421
Smash Apprentice
How do you think we can push kirby's metagame forward and make him a better character?
ChuDat
Smash Master
Try to learn all of the advanced moves that kirby has. Some include, the lagless forward air, pivot hammer, reverse up smash, sliding forward smash, stone cancel, ect.
Try to listen to what I have to say. It could really help you out.
Learn how to use the different powers.
Maybe this'll help....
Mind games
Using mind games can really make the difference in a match. Usually, opponents will have flaws in their style. It's up to the person to find those flaws, and take advantage of them. If a snake player likes to grenade, you can take advantage of that by grabbing him while he has a grenade in his hand. If a MK player likes to spam tornado, punish by either forward smash or by shielding and punishing. There are a lot of bad habits that players have and it's important to find those bad habits quickly.
Adapting is easier said than done. It's the most important trait to have when playing smash. When a player must fight on battlefield against Metaknight, they must adapt to the character and the stage. The same thing could be said against Diddy Kong on FD. So when a player adapts, he (or she) is thinking, "Ok, what can I do against MK on battlefield? How do I fight against Snake on Yoshi's? Where will the Snake place his C4s?". In these cases, it's easier to up-throw MK onto the top platform when he is at kill percent because they will die faster because the distance between the top platform and ceiling is short. Against Snake, a player must watch out for C4s that will be placed on the middle platform. Not should a player adapt a stage and character, they should adapt to the style of their opponent.
I've gotta go, but maybe I'll continue this if anyone wants me to.
Also, feel free to post videos and I'll tell you what bad habits your opponents have.
Try to listen to what I have to say. It could really help you out.
Learn how to use the different powers.
Maybe this'll help....
Mind games
Using mind games can really make the difference in a match. Usually, opponents will have flaws in their style. It's up to the person to find those flaws, and take advantage of them. If a snake player likes to grenade, you can take advantage of that by grabbing him while he has a grenade in his hand. If a MK player likes to spam tornado, punish by either forward smash or by shielding and punishing. There are a lot of bad habits that players have and it's important to find those bad habits quickly.
Adapting is easier said than done. It's the most important trait to have when playing smash. When a player must fight on battlefield against Metaknight, they must adapt to the character and the stage. The same thing could be said against Diddy Kong on FD. So when a player adapts, he (or she) is thinking, "Ok, what can I do against MK on battlefield? How do I fight against Snake on Yoshi's? Where will the Snake place his C4s?". In these cases, it's easier to up-throw MK onto the top platform when he is at kill percent because they will die faster because the distance between the top platform and ceiling is short. Against Snake, a player must watch out for C4s that will be placed on the middle platform. Not should a player adapt a stage and character, they should adapt to the style of their opponent.
I've gotta go, but maybe I'll continue this if anyone wants me to.
Also, feel free to post videos and I'll tell you what bad habits your opponents have
.
Please explain the 'lagless forward air', the 'sliding forward smash' and the 'stone cancel' since I'm not sure which of the ATs those refer to. I'm thinking the first one is an Auto-Cancel for the F-air, and I'm hoping the last one is a way of getting out of the Stone faster than frame 54.
Shadocat
Smash Ace
This is really good advice chu. Im gonna practice this stuff for when i go to a tourney on the 14th.
edit: and what is "stone cancel" btw?? along with sliding forward smash?
edit: And i also want to learn how to properly fight a lucas
edit: and what is "stone cancel" btw?? along with sliding forward smash?
edit: And i also want to learn how to properly fight a lucas
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Chu might be referring the sliding F-Smash to a studder step?
Speaking of AT's, Chu, have you ever seen or tried any of these?
Kirby's Ninja Spike (Lucario Exclusive)
Kirby's Double Suicide/Ninja Spike
[url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=-JhUXxh-nK8]Kirby's Nana Slide (The JoWii Slide)[/url]
They're all fun to do!
Speaking of AT's, Chu, have you ever seen or tried any of these?
Kirby's Ninja Spike (Lucario Exclusive)
Kirby's Double Suicide/Ninja Spike
[url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=-JhUXxh-nK8]Kirby's Nana Slide (The JoWii Slide)[/url]
They're all fun to do!
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
The lagless f-air is just SHing and peforming the f-air fast enough so that it ends before you land.
The rest I'm not sure about.
The rest I'm not sure about.
F-air would be so much better if it didn't have 15 frames of landing lag.
Mike, I think you're right about the Stutter Step being the Sliding F-smash. I'm still really wondering about the Stone cancel though. Stone would be so much better if you could cancel it in half the time.
Mike, I think you're right about the Stutter Step being the Sliding F-smash. I'm still really wondering about the Stone cancel though. Stone would be so much better if you could cancel it in half the time.
ChuDat
Smash Master
t!Mmy - Wumbo105 already covered the lagless forward air. The sliding forward smash can be seen in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9G1...DvjVQa1PpcFMgWGtA0YILW_gTAjqKLB2GR7cfQIrZxHI=
It's the last kill. I believe it's @ 2:11.
As for the stone cancel, it's difficult to pull off. To be honest, I'm not even sure if it's possible to pull off. What you do is you run off the stage, then stone. You should do your standing stone animation here instead of the aerial one. The standing stone animation takes less time to start up.
Shadocat - I'd recommend back airs against Lucas. It's pretty safe. Inhaling and walking off is also good against Lucas (and Ness).
MikeKirby - I've seen the first vid lol. The others are pretty interesting. I might try the nana slide, seems fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9G1...DvjVQa1PpcFMgWGtA0YILW_gTAjqKLB2GR7cfQIrZxHI=
It's the last kill. I believe it's @ 2:11.
As for the stone cancel, it's difficult to pull off. To be honest, I'm not even sure if it's possible to pull off. What you do is you run off the stage, then stone. You should do your standing stone animation here instead of the aerial one. The standing stone animation takes less time to start up.
Shadocat - I'd recommend back airs against Lucas. It's pretty safe. Inhaling and walking off is also good against Lucas (and Ness).
MikeKirby - I've seen the first vid lol. The others are pretty interesting. I might try the nana slide, seems fun
.
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
Hmm, for some reason i've pretty much ignored the sliding f-smash up until now, but it seems it might be helpful. How exactly is it done?
ChuDat
Smash Master
It's pretty much, you run in one direction, turn around, then Fsmash. When you turn around, the momentum causes you to slide back as you Fsmash.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Ooh, Chu, you're talking about the Quick Rock!! Haha, awesome!! There are two ways to pull it off! Well that I know of.
1. Walk towards the ledge and once you're at the very tip of the ledge, you commence to do the Kirby's Down-B. The foward momentum you carry from walking should "push" you off the ledge. This way is probably the easiest way to pull off the Quick Rock.
2. You run to the ledge (slowly). Have you ever been in a running animation while being stationary at a ledge? Here >>>this<<< and >>> this video<<< will explain better! You have to find a balance between a full run and a fast walk after you're initial dash. Once you're in the this "slow" run animation pull out your Stone right on the ledge and you will slide right off the ledge with a quicker start up!
Try it out man. It's a bit hard to do but surely not impossible. I'm not sure why a full run makes Kirby's Stone stop right on the ledge. One thing to note is that if if you're already on a slanted surface (Y.I. Brawl's Platform) there is no need for these requirements. A full run will work! I should get around to practicing the Quick Rock, hah!
Now if we could only discover the secrets of the Quick Cutter >.<
Oooh and THAT sliding smash!! Hahaha, woo, I mentioned that a whiles ago! Great minds think alike!
1. Walk towards the ledge and once you're at the very tip of the ledge, you commence to do the Kirby's Down-B. The foward momentum you carry from walking should "push" you off the ledge. This way is probably the easiest way to pull off the Quick Rock.
2. You run to the ledge (slowly). Have you ever been in a running animation while being stationary at a ledge? Here >>>this<<< and >>> this video<<< will explain better!
You have to find a balance between a full run and a fast walk after you're initial dash. Once you're in the this "slow" run animation pull out your Stone right on the ledge and you will slide right off the ledge with a quicker start up!Try it out man. It's a bit hard to do but surely not impossible. I'm not sure why a full run makes Kirby's Stone stop right on the ledge.
One thing to note is that if if you're already on a slanted surface (Y.I. Brawl's Platform) there is no need for these requirements. A full run will work! I should get around to practicing the Quick Rock, hah!Now if we could only discover the secrets of the Quick Cutter >.<
Oooh and THAT sliding smash!! Hahaha, woo, I mentioned that a whiles ago! Great minds think alike!
Magma Dolphin
Smash Apprentice
For some reason I cannot open the link to the "Quick Cutter"... However, if you are referring to the glitch where final cutter just stops moving vertically upwards and causes kirby to shoot out his blade, there has already been some work done on it... I think there is a thread on allisbrawl. I'll try and get a video up about it sometime later this week. My buddy just got a dazzle and this is a great way to try it out.
Vinylic.
Woke?
That sounds nice. But is it worth it when this glitch is used more often?
Derpy
Derpy
aqua421
Smash Apprentice
chu do you have any advice against donkey kong? i get really frustrated when he lives to really high percents and then kills me before i even get to 100%
Magma Dolphin
Smash Apprentice
To be honest, it does not impact gameplay much. However, I use it all the time on brinstar as an alternative recovery option that can be done when the stage it whole or separate, and because you instantly land and send out the blade its very safe.That sounds nice. But is it worth it when this glitch is used more often?
Derpy
On other levels, such as battlefield, it could be used as an aggressive recovery option, however, the battlefield glitch is a bit harder to hit 100% of the time.
ChuDat
Smash Master
Thanks MikeKirby! I didn't know you could walk off and do it.
Yes, it would be nice if we could find a consistent way to pull off the cutter glitch.
aqua421 - Killing DK should be done vertically. Try an upsmash when he's at about 130%. Also, you're going to want to spike DK whenever you can. These are the fastest ways to kill DK. Inhale and walking off should work too, especially if you spit them under the stage.
Magma Dolphin - You can do the glitch on Brinstar? How?
Yes, it would be nice if we could find a consistent way to pull off the cutter glitch.
aqua421 - Killing DK should be done vertically. Try an upsmash when he's at about 130%. Also, you're going to want to spike DK whenever you can. These are the fastest ways to kill DK. Inhale and walking off should work too, especially if you spit them under the stage.
Magma Dolphin - You can do the glitch on Brinstar? How?
Fuujin
Smash Champion
y u kept 2 stocking me @ apex???
Vinylic.
Woke?
Was that really your important question.
Fuujin, let's not derail the thread please. This is a good thread with nice information, last thing it needs is people coming in and spamming/going off-topic.
Magma Dolphin
Smash Apprentice
In order to do the cancel, you have to up-b directly below the vertical edges of the stage on the inside near the breakable terrain as marked in blue (I find it easier to do on the right side) here http://tinypic.com/r/zt6bgj/5 (assuming I uploaded the image correctly and you all can access it (if not, please let me know and I'll try again)).
You want to keep Kirby's center traveling through that vertical line at all times. I should also mention that the breakable terrain itself is not involved, this can be done with the stage together(breakable terrain intact) or apart (breakable terrain broken).
What should happen is it should cancel all upward momentum upon Kirby's feet hitting the stage, as seen in the battlefield video posted above.
This works with other character's up-bs as well (I recommend trying it with DDD as his cancel is pretty easy to do and the effect is very noticeable)
I have some theories as to why it works, but nothing concrete. I recorded stuff tonight and plan to edit it next week and post the evidence then.
Until then, Happy Testing!
Fuujin
Smash Champion
UMM Xcuse you guys
the question came from me, therefore it's automatically IMPORTANT.
the question came from me, therefore it's automatically IMPORTANT.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
You can also do it in PS1 on the Fire Tranformation while it's transforming back to default. You have to be on the left side underneath the tree branch and do the Final Cutter while the stage is pulling back in. Actually, I think maybe It can also be done during the Mountain terrain to default as well. Hmmm, man, I love that stage!
Magma Dolphin
Smash Apprentice
I did not know about it on pokemon stadium. that is pretty cool. I'll have to try that later.
falln
Smash Ace
you can also do some tricky final cutter stuff with the donut lifts on rc. free dmg is free dmg
Magma Dolphin
Smash Apprentice
Interesting, what exactly can you do?
Also, I have done the recordings of the final cutter glitch on brinstar and now need to edit them. Can anyone recommend a good (preferably free) video editing program? The clips are saved as .VOB if that helps. Someone recommended using "vegas work" but I have had no luck finding it online.
Finally, has anyone successfully tried the glitch on brinstar. I find it useful as an alternative recovery option as well as a mix up when sharking.
Wumbo105
Smash Ace
Torrent Sony Vegas Pro. All problems solved.
falln
Smash Ace
you dont even need to torrent it you can just get the 30 day trial
i used to use the glitch on brinstar a lot when i would take people there (and when i used d3 in like 09 and got taken there the up b cancel was really good for recovering because you can go from super armor to the landing hitbox instantly) but brinstar is just pocket mk bait + brinstar is banned in socal now so
oh and when you're on the magic carpet and approach a donut lift you can wait til you're really squished by it and get instant FCs out of that. also if someones holding the edge on the right part of the ship you can up b that through the wall but i think most people already know that one. rc's also banned nowadays
i used to use the glitch on brinstar a lot when i would take people there (and when i used d3 in like 09 and got taken there the up b cancel was really good for recovering because you can go from super armor to the landing hitbox instantly) but brinstar is just pocket mk bait + brinstar is banned in socal now so
oh and when you're on the magic carpet and approach a donut lift you can wait til you're really squished by it and get instant FCs out of that. also if someones holding the edge on the right part of the ship you can up b that through the wall but i think most people already know that one. rc's also banned nowadays
Magma Dolphin
Smash Apprentice
Thanks for the help. Vids to come soon
zFlashyStyle
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
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What should i practice as Kirby?And where can i find the CG list?I love the CGs!
Shadocat
Smash Ace
Practice spacing your Bairs and your recovery options.
The cg stuff on some of the characters is on page 4 of this thread
The cg stuff on some of the characters is on page 4 of this thread