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The 2GGC: Civil War Discussion Thread

Vyrnx

Vyrnx

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Why are people johning for ZeRo when he has an incredibly dominant record on Zero Suit and tons of experience against her best players? And that's vs someone with very little experience vs top players. It's an extremely big deal that Luhtie beat him.
 
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JasonKaroshi

JasonKaroshi

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ZeRo not only lost to unranked players far below his skill level, he lost to characters he's had tons of experience on against top players, with Larry Lurr's Fox and Nairo's ZSS. He's played them a bunch of times and possibly more in friendlies. He simply got outplayed.
 
ARGHETH

ARGHETH

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Vyrnx said:
Why are people johning for ZeRo when he has an incredibly dominant record on Zero Suit and tons of experience against her best players? And that's vs someone with very little experience vs top players. It's an extremely big deal that Luhtie beat him.
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Nobody's saying it isn't a big deal or that it isn't a huge upset. It's just that the guy that sent him to losers said Zero was playing sloppy, and the fact that he visibly wasn't playing as well as he usually does.
 
Minordeth

Minordeth

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Edit: Zero may have played sloppily against Xzax, but he played close to form at least 2.5 of those games against Luhtie.

Zero had plenty of time to adapt, and he actually did on Game 4. I think he was caught off guard initially by Luhtie's more defensive, empty hopping, KEN-esque version of ZSS, but he brought it back. I love game 5s mostly because at that point, each player knows the other person's style, and what their gameplan is, it just comes down to who keeps the cooler head to implement their plan.

In this case, Luhtie was able to adjust midmatch on game 5 to Zero's change in style, and forced Zero into poor options. He earned that set.
 
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NairWizard

NairWizard

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|RK| said:
Xzax already said ZeRo was playing sloppy earlier. Jesus, man...
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Because people have the tendency to focus on what the upsetting player did to win without considering the other side of the coin.

Credit to Luthie indeed, don't get me wrong. He played very well. Better than I could have in his place. Well deserved.

But, it's just not as exciting to me as it would be had ZeRo been playing better.

Sloppy play just can't be hype to me. But ZeRo doing his best getting taken out by someone doing even better? That would be hype.
 
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JasonKaroshi

JasonKaroshi

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I remember people were saying crews shouldn't be last as to not discourage people if they get upset in pools, and most people will be upset in pools due to how much competition there is, and it's showing true for ZeRo. He said he's gonna stay for crews so I think the momentum, or lack thereof, will be Team Zero's downfall.
 
|RK|

|RK|

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I mean, no one's downplaying Luhtie. Playing for 11 months and beating the best player in the world in a dominant MU for him is a Herculean feat.
 
Ziodyne 21

Ziodyne 21

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JasonKaroshi said:
It's especially odd since Marth does better against Cloud and Mega Man. Maybe he just feels more comfortable with Lucina right now.
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Plus Marth has really not been doing to well for anyone today it seems. All of the top Marth mains were all sent to losers in pools don't forget.
 
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TDK

TDK

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Locus :4ryu: 3-1 Ally :4mario:

Having playing Locus firsthand, Ally respected Focus Attack way too much.

But then again, Mario doesn't have the amazing multihits that Link does, so maybe he had no choice.
 
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Minordeth

Minordeth

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Lord, Locus is gonna be a beast as he gets better. He has the mentality and focus of a top 10 player. He is so good at controlled extensions. Ally should have stopped rolling behind him when Locus started going for reverse focus attacks to catch the rolls.

Good stuff to Locus, 3-1 over Ally.
 
FamilyTeam

FamilyTeam

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Ark of Silence101 said:
Wait, what? Why would he do that when :4marth: does better against :4cloud: and :4megaman:?
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Someone demanded me to rise from my grave to answer this:
He really doesn't.
Cloud matchup really is about the same thing. Whatever Marth can do to bother Cloud, Lucina can do as well, and vice-versa. Megaman is asinine but some prefer Lucina in this matchup due to pellets making it hard to properly space.
 
Wintermelon43

Wintermelon43

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I thought we knew better than this ever sicne Seagull Joe beat ZeRo at Tbh5???

Of course it means SOMETHING that Luthie was able to beat ZeRo at all, considering he was pretty much an unknown before this. I haven't watched the set yet, so I can't be sure what he did.

But either way, it means quite a lot that ZeRo wasn't playing properly. ZeRo wasn't playing the way he normal,y would, which means the result would be much differant. It's like if you electrocuted a guy for an entire minute and then fought him. He's obvisualy going to do worse when he's in a significent disadvantage beforehand. The result would be skewed aganist him.
 
Ark of Silence101

Ark of Silence101

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FamilyTeam said:
Someone demanded me to rise from my grave to answer this:
He really doesn't.
Cloud matchup really is about the same thing. Whatever Marth can do to bother Cloud, Lucina can do as well, and vice-versa. Megaman is asinine but some prefer Lucina in this matchup due to pellets making it hard to properly space.
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I know. I main :4lucina: as well and fare better against :4megaman: than with my other main being :4feroy:, just found it odd since Mr. E overall has a better Marth than Lucy.
 
JB333

JB333

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Man, if Ally doesn't make it to top 32...


In all seriousness, we all knew that there were going to be upsets, but the fact that Zero got 49th (his lowest placement in ANY smash game) and Ally just got sent to losers is just insane. It is the curse... on steroids
 
FamilyTeam

FamilyTeam

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Ark of Silence101 said:
I know. I main :4lucina: as well and fare better against :4megaman: than with my other main being :4feroy:, just found it odd since Mr. E overall has a better Marth than Lucy.
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Yeah. I will always say Marth and Lucina have identical MU charts, but this is not a discussion I wish to have here.
 
Minordeth

Minordeth

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I'll rewatch it later, but I think you guys are basing a little too much of Zero's loss to Xzax's statement from 3 hours earlier on what actually happened during the match with Luhtie. At worst, Zero's play was uneven. I'll watch the set again, but some of these reactions are like Zero put the controller down mid set and just gave up.
 
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

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Wintermelon43 said:
I thought we knew better than this ever sicne Seagull Joe beat ZeRo at Tbh5???

Of course it means SOMETHING that Luthie was able to beat ZeRo at all, considering he was pretty much an unknown before this. I haven't watched the set yet, so I can't be sure what he did.

But either way, it means quite a lot that ZeRo wasn't playing properly. ZeRo wasn't playing the way he normal,y would, which means the result would be much differant. It's like if you electrocuted a guy for an entire minute and then fought him. He's obvisualy going to do worse when he's in a significent disadvantage beforehand. The result would be skewed aganist him.
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ZeRo might be having an off day but what does that say about the +700 other people he might cross paths with at the venue that also might be having off days but don't display/mention it? ZeRo played fine. A little uneven, but fine. When Game 4 came around he adapted really well and by Game 5 it's no surprise that he couldn't keep his cool - no one would be able to keep their cool in a situation like that, neither did Luhtie.

Player mentality is always a factor. That goes without saying in every single round, every single game, every single person. He still got outplayed by one of his historically best matchups.
 
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TDK

TDK

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Kirihara :rosalina: 3-0 ESAM :4mewtwo::4samus:

If he wants to have any chance against Rosa he might need that Corrin.
 
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