Legality Tentative: MBR Official Ruleset for 2012

[Divinokage]

I'm sure he likes Rebecca Black and Justin Bieber too.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I don't know what you're talking about Kage, Rebecca Black is amazing. I listen to her music every friday.
And when I say I listen to it, I mean I make people I don't like listen to it.

 

[Kal]

It's more fun to do mean things to people you love. Keeps them on edge.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'll remember that.

Anyway, here's a recent video of me proving why Mute City should be made a CP stage:

http://youtu.be/kfVsfOSbJY0

 

[NF Alex]

I wholeheartedly agree with the above post.

 

[Varist]

hey is the ruleset still tentative? i want to discuss it.

 

[Merkuri]

I got distracted by Kal and his idiocy but I'd like to again propose using Game and Watch Judgement Hammers in place of all policies that would otherwise be determined by Rock Paper Scissors, it's a much more efficient method in that it can't be cheated like rock paper scissors can.

 

[Varist]

faster way, so that you don't have to start a game, do the random character select ****. just move your hand thing off the character menu, press B and then A.

whoever ends up with a character whose name comes first alphabetically wins.

or whoever's character is higher tier wins.

or whoever's character is closest to the top left (as if you were reading a damn book) wins.

it's preference. and ****. obviously if you end up on the same character you just press B - A once more.

**** G&W AND THAT BARWL ****.

how's that for an

efficient method

 

[username12345678]

faster way, so that you don't have to start a game, do the random character select ****. just move your player coin off the character menu, press B and then A.

whoever ends up with a character whose name comes first alphabetically wins.

or whoever's character is higher tier wins.

or whoever's character is closest to the top left (as if you were reading a damn book) wins.

it's preference. and ****. obviously if you end up on the same character you just press B - A once more.

**** G&W AND THAT BARWL ****.

how's that for an

 

[Kal]

lol my idiocy

it's a love story

baby just say yes

Also why all these contrived methods for randomizing port selection? Flip a ****ing coin, pick a hand, RPS, etc. You can't really cheat any of these methods (unless your opponent is just too stupid to notice).

 

[Merkuri]

lol my idiocy

it's a love story

baby just say yes

Also why all these contrived methods for randomizing port selection? Flip a ****ing coin, pick a hand, RPS, etc. You can't really cheat any of these methods (unless your opponent is just too stupid to notice).

I can't believe this guy. Listen, people make entire careers off of cheating at flipping a coin and slight of hand, there a hundreds of ways to cheat at those games. RPS is a bit more difficult but it's doable, somepeople will delay their hand ever so slightly so they can see what hand you're using. It'll also be a problem if people accuse the other of cheating when they are not.

Mr Game and Watch Judgement Hammers is the only full proof method that can't be cheated. If you're arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me, while not truly disagreeing then please let me know from now. I'm not interested in wasting time on you again.

 

[Kal]

Merkuri, if you don't want to waste time arguing with someone, add them to your ignore list. God knows it would be doing the rest of us a favor.

Yes, it's possible to cheat at these things. It's not hard to prevent cheating; get a fair coin, have a third party flip it, gg. It's about as time consuming (probably less time consuming) than both players selecting Game and Watch, starting a match, using the move, and quitting the match. I do enjoy this notion that there are hundreds of ways to cheat those games, when in all likelihood the ones you can name are:

"Get an unfair coin"
"Learn to flip a coin, despite there being little real evidence that someone can flip a coin with a greater than 50% success rate"
"Wait for your opponent to choose rock, paper, or scissors, and respond with paper, scissors, or rock, respectively."

The best solution to all of this is obviously the neutral port idea mentioned by Cactuar. The effects outside of starting position gained from port choice have nearly no effect on gameplay.

Also, I'm just arguing with you for the sake of arguing with you, while not truly disagreeing. Though I still recommend adding me to your ignore list.

 

[Xyzz]

I think, Kal enjoys (more or less) intelligent discussions, and trolling people who are incapable of having the former. Decide on your own which applies.

edit:
If somebody delays his hand in RPS, there's two options:
a) it's obvious and you could easily call him out for doing so
b) he has superhuman reflexes and will win the game at hand regardless of port selection.

 

[Kal]

Don't give me too much credit, Xyzz. I can be belligerent. I once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. Wait wait, let me link the reference.

 

[Merkuri]

I think, Kal enjoys (more or less) intelligent discussions, and trolling people who are incapable of having the former. Decide on your own which applies.



edit:
If somebody delays his hand in RPS, there's two options:
a) it's obvious and you could easily call him out for doing so
b) he has superhuman reflexes and will win the game at hand regardless of port selection.

idk. I think it's more that he's just looking for attention. People who always talk for the sake of being heard are the type with insecurity issues. In my experience anyways.

edit: Well b simply isn't true. Having great reflexes is less than half of the game. So it's entirely feasible for him to have superhuman reflexes and still loses his match. In which case obviously he shouldn't be allowed to cheat.

Again, there is also the problem of people accusing their opponents of cheating at the game, when their opponent isn't. It creates a whole different problem, especially if the accuser is lying.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

G&W judgement hammers is probably the worst solution suggested. The time and effort it takes to plug both controllers in, both choose G&W, start a game, use 1 move, quit out, take both controllers out and replace them is not comparable to the advantages in terms of fairness. The best solution to choosing who has lowest port is the quickest solution. One person must have lower ports and it doesn't matter whom; ports have no bearing on the outcome of a set, besides starting locations. Neutral ports for each stage have already been suggested and a list of them can be found in the first post.

 

[Kal]

Sveet, I think a game of Broodwar or Starcraft 2 should be used to decide the port choice for each match. Actually, make it a best of 7 set of Broodwar or Starcraft 2, for each match, just to be safe.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

While that is a fair solution, micro, hand speed and quick thinking has too much of a role. In order to remedy this I think a first to 10 chess match with a 1 hour timer per game should be used.

 

[Merkuri]

G&W judgement hammers is probably the worst solution suggested. The time and effort it takes to plug both controllers in, both choose G&W, start a game, use 1 move, quit out, take both controllers out and replace them is not comparable to the advantages in terms of fairness. The best solution to choosing who has lowest port is the quickest solution. One person must have lower ports and it doesn't matter whom; ports have no bearing on the outcome of a set, besides starting locations. Neutral ports for each stage have already been suggested and a list of them can be found in the first post.

If done right it would take at most a minute to do Game and watch judge hammers, so I'd say you are just wrong in thinking that it's not time efficient.

Moreover you seem to be unaware that port priority also affects in game priority. That is if two players grab each other at the sametime then the player with higher port priority will succeed in grabbing his opponent, while his opponent(with lower port priority) would have failed to grab, and instead get grabbed in the process. Furthermore, port priority also affects who grabs the ledge in the case that both players are at the ledge at the sametime. The player with the higher port priority will grab the ledge while the player with the lower port priority won't. Its ridiculous for you to claim that port priority has no bearing on the outcome of a set.

@Kal: Because you are arguing for the sake of arguing, without actually trying to change anything is the reason why your entire discussion on stage selection have always been fruitless. You're being counter productive to those of who actually care about the ruleset, it would be nice if you were to just stop.

 

[Cactuar]

As someone who does know the influence of port priority, it doesn't matter enough to waste a minute of time determining who gets the higher priority. I could make the rule "Whoever sits down at the setup first gets first pick of slot", and still be happy with it, as it would then be a reward for not wasting everyone's time and not going to the appropriate setup when called.

The prior solution of randoming a character and comparing tier position is exactly the same in terms of randomness and faster than your solution.

Please stop wasting all of our time with this nonsense. If you want to use an alternate method, you are more than welcome to propose a gentlemen's agreement to do so with your opponent.

 

[Xyzz]

While that is a fair solution, micro, hand speed and quick thinking has too much of a role. In order to remedy this I think a first to 10 chess match with a 1 hour timer per game should be used.

Chess matches with an hour timer are frowned upon, since they don't give the players ample time for thinking about their moves, international tourneys usually use 2h per player :D

But seriously, what is wrong with flipping a coin if you are paranoid about rps? Weighted coins? Really? In that case make sure the one who doesn't bring the coin gets to call the side. Paranoid of people being able to make coins drop to one side with a probability greater then 50%? Call when the coin is already in the air.
All that trouble for something that to all my best knowledge hasn't decided a single tournament set in living memory?
Seriously?
(and yes, a full minute of doing GaW stuff seems even more unreasonable).

@Kal: I started thinking something along the lines of "poor cactus having to deal with this bull****", and by now you're posts are fun to me, and if you're not voluntarily trolling, you are doing a good job at it anyways :D

edit: I fully support Cactuar's suggestion of simply having the first player to arrive at the setup plug in (and if they arrive at the same time, simply let them do whatever they feel apt to decide port priority)

 

[Kal]

While that is a fair solution, micro, hand speed and quick thinking has too much of a role. In order to remedy this I think a first to 10 chess match with a 1 hour timer per game should be used.

But then opening knowledge, tactical knowledge, and end game knowledge will have too much of a role. There must be some solution so that a player is just assigned a port without requiring any knowledge a priori. I know we can think of one if we put our heads together, Sveet!

Merkuri, if you think the stage discussion was fruitless because of my reasons for arguing, you're a moron. No intent whatsoever is going to change the MBR's ruling on the stagelist, nor will it change the community's tendency towards scrubbiness. Did I hope the ruleset would change after explaining my point of view? Yes. Did I expect it to? No. This does not equate to me simply playing the Devil's advocate for jollies.

Xyzz, in my defense, I have never trolled anyone with regards to the discussion about stages (except for Sveet a couple of times). I'm merely arguing my point of view. They're just words. Nothing to get worked up over. If it bothers anyone, they should add me to their ignore list. Challenging Cactuar likely led him to reinforce his beliefs, and not reaching an agreement has led to a reinforcement of mine (which is the norm in most discussions). The only trolling I did to Merkuri is bashing Taylor Swift. And that wasn't even with the intent of enticing an angry response. Taylor Swift just ****ing sucks. So it wasn't really trolling. Just message-bearing. Taylor Swift sucks.

 

[Cactuar]

@Kal: I'm actually in the process of working on an alternate ruleset that can reasonably use other stages.

There are certain variables that dictate the necessity for restricted stages being the proving grounds in the current ruleset. To allow for more stages, you first have to change those variables. It is a work in progress, but if you're interested in hearing it out, contact me via aim or skype.

You challenging me actually got me thinking about what the cause of our long term slide towards a restricted ruleset was. Now that I have the cause, I can play with it and hopefully open it up.

In summary: I have been having way more fun playing Melee recently.

 

[Kal]

Oh, well when you publish that I'm probably going to copy Bone's position for the sole purpose of arguing for the sake of arguing. The Devil apparently only has 56k connection, so he calls me up to play his advocate.

In all seriousness, I'm glad to read that. Hylian and I were discussing posting a comprehensive guide to making your own ruleset, with various theories explaining each ruleset's justification. I wanted Hylian to write it because I would have written "these players are scrub, and ban everything" for the MBR ruleset.

What do you mean about variables dictating "the necessity for restricted stages being the proving grounds in the current ruleset?"

 

[Xyzz]

@cactuar: sounds fun, maybe they'll get some playtime then (including me, I rarely play on anything not considered viable for competitive play in Europe ).

Xyzz, in my defense, I have never trolled anyone with regards to the discussion about stages (except for Sveet a couple of times). I'm merely arguing my point of view. They're just words. Nothing to get worked up over. If it bothers anyone, they should add me to their ignore list. Challenging Cactuar likely led him to reinforce his beliefs, and not reaching an agreement has led to a reinforcement of mine (which is the norm in most discussions). The only trolling I did to Merkuri is bashing Taylor Swift. And that wasn't even with the intent of enticing an angry response. Taylor Swift just ****ing sucks. So it wasn't really trolling. Just message-bearing. Taylor Swift sucks.

Cactuar is certainly capable of having intelligent discussions, so no need to troll him according to my impressions of you , and I wholeheartedly agree to trolling people based on listening to Taylor Swift. Even if it is just message bearing :D

 

[Kal]

It's just science, really.

 

[Cactuar]

@Kal: I'm not telling. You'll have to engage in realtime conversation to find out. **

 

[Kal]

I've been trying to stalk you via AIM for like a month, and you're never on! You gotta tell me!

Xyzz, do you play Chess? We should play!

 

[Cactuar]

I'm actually on gchat all day at work, and only turn on skype when I get home if I remember. I always forget to start pidgin, so my aim is rarely on unless I log into meebo during the day.

 

[Kal]

Well I don't have your email so I cannot gmail chat with you.

Hey, hey Cactuar. Hey. Can I get your number email? Can I have it?

 

[Cactuar]

PM'd.

I've got a meeting from 2-3, so I'll be off shortly.

 

[CableCho57]

what about flipping a coin

 

[Varist]

what about flipping a coin

o yah dis guy knos

les do tha

 

[Merkuri]

Merkuri, if you think the stage discussion was fruitless because of my reasons for arguing, you're a moron. No intent whatsoever is going to change the MBR's ruling on the stagelist, nor will it change the community's tendency towards scrubbiness. Did I hope the ruleset would change after explaining my point of view? Yes. Did I expect it to? No. This does not equate to me simply playing the Devil's advocate for jollies.

Haha, how weak. Listen just because YOU failed, and just because YOUR arguments were useless in changing the minds of the MBR does not mean that it's impossible. More likely than it being impossible is that YOU are simply incompetent. Just because YOU are incapable of changing the minds of the MBR doesn't mean that everyone else can't. Saying something is impossible is just something that losers say so that they can feel better about themselves.

If you're not actually trying to accomplish thing then just shut up, some of us actually care about the rule set are trying to improve it for the better.

 

[Divinokage]

Merkuri, it's ok, you won't succeed either no matter how hard you try.

 

[Merkuri]

Merkuri, it's ok, you won't succeed either no matter how hard you try.

I'm calling it now. You ARE GOING TO FAIL at Mixed Martial Arts.

 

[Divinokage]

Nope, I succeed in anything I wanted to do, MMA is no exception. I don't need you to tell me these things, if you want to downtalk people then I can do the exact same and I am in the position in the MBR while you are not. You lost all chances already. =)

 

[Merkuri]

Nope, I succeed in anything I wanted to do, MMA is no exception. I don't need you to tell me these things, if you want to downtalk people then I can do the exact same and I am in the position in the MBR while you are not. You lost all chances already. =)

I disagree. You are absolutely going to fail. You won't even do well enough to satisfy yourself. Furthermore I predict you're going to receive a permanent injury before you career is done. How severe the injury will be I have no idea, but the damage will be irreversible. And I will laugh at you for it.

 

[Divinokage]

Awww, I'm sorry you are hurt but love is the most powerful tool, maybe something you don't have. You can't underestimate that. Anyways, see ya scrub, no MBR for you ever, because I said so.

Edit: Just in case people are wondering why I responded. I like to engage in random ****. lol.

 

[Merkuri]

Awww, I'm sorry you are hurt but love is the most powerful tool, maybe something you don't have. You can't underestimate that. Anyways, see ya scrub, no MBR for you ever, because I said so.

Edit: Just in case people are wondering why I responded. I like to engage in random ****. lol.

Kage please do us a favor and inform us when you are having your MMA matches so we can follow you. It means a lot to me if I can personally rub every defeat in your face.