What do you mean it only counts tournament threads? It's anything except Off Topic, I think. Melee Discussions posts count, at the very least.
Oh, looks like you're right. My bad.
We already discussed the whole accounting for variables thing. You can obviously anticipate when the lava will rise, but you can't possibly be able to do something about it every time.
It really depends on how you look at it. To see that you can't account for the lava because you may already be in a combo could just suggest that you should be more careful about entering combos. The lava can clearly be accounted for (as there is an obvious mechanic for accounting for it: stay on the top platform), the complaint you seem to have is that you can't account for it while simultaneously playing the way you want. I don't see that as a problem.
Kage being trapped because Cactuar respawned as the lava rose is a perfect example. Kage could have anticipated that it would happen and he could have tried to keep Cactuar alive somehow, but it's still randomly benefiting one player while screwing over another.
In the long-term, the randomness will effect both players equally. This may be something you have a problem with, but it's not the case that it's inherently bad. Skill no longer becomes a measure from game to game, but instead a long-term measurement, similar to any other game in which luck is a factor.
When you can account for randomness, the consistency merely improves.
The lava forced him to make a choice between bad option A and bad option B.
What makes them bad options? The only worthwhile definition I can come up with for the value of an option is relative to the others; I can say an option is better or worse than another, but I certainly can't qualify an option as being bad. In the case you've mentioned, I only see "option A and option B," and I see the "good" option as the better of the two.
Obviously someone good at accounting for lava will be able to pick option A or B appropriately to cut their losses, but they are still losses that only occurred due to randomness of the stage. If each player was placed in this scenario an equal number of times or if it was reasonable to expect players to be able to alter the pace of the match to make the lava rises benefit them, then it'd be a different story, but neither of those are relevant so all you get is a stage which randomly affects the players.
In the long run, each player will be placed in the scenario an equal number of times. Frankly, I feel that randomness is not the reason people want this banned; they just don't want **** coming up and damaging the players. If randomness were such an issue, there would be more things banned which currently aren't (Pokémon Stadium in particular). It seems to me people will come up with whatever excuses they can to ban the stages they dislike.
I am of the opinion that you very well
can play the match in such a way that the lava rise benefits you, or at least does not harm you. Moreover, if I am wrong, I sincerely don't believe that you would be ok with a Brinstar with lava on a timer and paced in such a way that it could be accounted for as you mentioned.
As far as the other FGCs, I think you're missing the point, which is the mentality they have when banning things. Those communities would ban something that threatens to decrease the skill gap of their games which is all we're doing for Melee. If they had a stage where a icicle fell from the ceiling once a minute and did damage unless the player avoided it, they would ban it. Even if it only did a small amount of damage, it's just a random element that serves no purpose in evaluating the skill of the players.
I've explained before that this "skill gap" is just players fixating on whatever skills they consider worthwhile. You're not making the game "more skilled," you're emphasizing your arbitrarily preferred skills.
It can test how well players deal with the stage, but this just progresses towards Melee on counterpicks which ends up playing more like a single player platformer where you just have to traverse the stage better than your opponent in order to win.
I think you're exaggerating the effect counterpicks have on Melee. Not every counterpick is Icicle Mountain.
If you think there should be elements other than one player competing vs. another, perhaps you should just play Target Test or HRC. If you want to test skills vs. another human, then stick to a neutral stage list. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. You can stay in the middle of the spectrum, but you're just testing half of each skill, not 100% of both.
You're still testing skills against another player, because you are simultaneously engaging the opponent while "interacting" with the stage. You're telling me that it's "less" player vs. player because lava comes up and can hit the opponent? Supposing you're right, all I would tell people is "deal with it."
However, I don't agree in the least. Dealing with your opponent while
simultaneously dealing with other mechanics certainly adds skill, and by no means turns the game from "player vs. player" into "50% player vs. player, also a platformer." Emphasizing a second skill does not remove or necessarily lighten the emphasis on the first.
And your statement telling me to play HRC is basically just "this is how the game
should be played." Come on, I thought we were past this sort of nonsense. I could just as easily say "if you want a game with no stage 'interference', go play Street Fighter."
Like it or not, no one wants to test how good they are a game of "Avoid Stage Hazards and Fight Your Opponent." They just want to fight their god damned opponent because everyone's been avoiding stage hazards for years it presents a lot more chance than any semblance of skill.
And, of course, we conclude with "the majority hates this **** anyway." Great point. I've never once given thought to the fact that maybe the majority of players want to play on only the starter stages. I mean, why else would the entire community
not be up in arms about the most recent MBR ruleset?
The idea that the stages provide more chance than skill is nonsense. It's not like random noobs can take top players there and win a good proportion of the time by chance. These stages test skills you're not a fan of, and they allow for mechanics you dislike, fine, but don't act like it's just an inherently more-skilled game without them.
Also, Fox vs. Luigi is pretty ********.
*