Lordydennek
Smash Ace
Im thinking about picking up a bro. I like both mario and doc im not sure which way to go tho. Could someone give me a rundown?
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Tell me why Mario >Doc
- Thread starter Lordydennek
- Start date
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
Docs better. >_>
I will highlight my own opinion in purple, everything else i tried and tested myself. Dont get too hung up on the highlighting, im doing it to appease that etwitz dude
The uks best doc said himself, doc isnt about combing, he is about dsmash and bair leading to/facilitating edgeguarding
It is universally agreed by London, being there 1 doc main and 1 Mario main (bullet bill and myself), that Mario is a whole lot sexier. Seriously, a good Mario is so sexy
Mario has better recovery options. His cape lift (docs cape only stalls) not only gives him a whole lot of horizontal distance if used like marths sideB and following a downB, but allows him to go lower below the stage for a gimp without Sding.
It is of mine and several others opinions that doc has the worst recovery in the game. I mean its terrible, his upB gives a tiny bit more height than Marios, at the expense of loosing Marios RIDICULOUS sweetspot. The cape is awful for recovery, and in PAL Mario is lighter, allowing him to gain more horizontal distance per vertical distance fallen. He is also harder to combo in PAL. FIRST SENTANCE = PURPLE
Both characters facilitate bair for gimps off stage, but looking at it realistically (docs bair is better for gimping), if any character eats a bair from either Mario or doc, without a second jump to come back with, they are all but dead. My opinion, but my opinion is correct here.
Marios fsmash outranges everything doc has.
Marios nair is strong at the beginning, and docs nair gets stronger as it goes. Marios nair is a Ko move, and links from uair pretty much all the time. Provides a quick, abusable combo to get characters on all kinds of percents off the stage, ready to eat a bair on their 2nd jump. Or just to Ko at early %'s with shoddy DI.
Mariohas by far the superior platform game, with a weak bair that keeps opponents in the same spot, and the ability to get in 2 aerials in a FH under all the platforms. Docs bair packs too much knockback to be used on platforms, or in combing. This is debilitating seeing as Mario still retains 90% gimping power from the move. The floor hitbox on his dair, which combats down cancelling, also combos into nair/uair/usmash/dsmash/ftilt etc. His dair also autocancels on every low platform in the neutral stages from a FH, allowing for broken combos that doc cant do with his extra few frames of lag on every move.
Marios strong nair means you can bait grabs with uair, then jump out of uair (in the same SH) into nair, for a strong hit, leaving Mario safely autocancelled on the platform above.
Bair -> grab all dai on low %'s, doc does not have this luxury.
The ability to perfect waveland after a FH fireball means opponents get drawn into shield to avoid the ball, just to eat a full momentum nair in the face following the waveland, by which time they always unshield - thinking Mario cant make it that far, that fast.Tis leet.
Again with the recovery, Mario is very very difficult to edgeguard once you know all the options, and overall has one of the better, less gimpable recoveries. Doc gets gimped and cant recover, fact. opinion is fact here imo. (lol)
They can both CG equally good
Docs fair is undoubtedly better as a Ko move, but Marios fair punishes techs into his killer fsmash, which can be charged a fair amout before release. Death at 50% sometimes.
Marios utilt > knee in priority. Perhaps I should repeat - Utilt, > Knee. That is so awesome. Dairs floor hitbox also hits Falcon out of his sweetspot, just like shieks dsmash. That is also so awesome.
WD backwards -> fsmash beats every rushed aerial approach in the game. Super fast too, and conditions the hell outta your opponent in tourney. Every time they rush they eat a stupidly powerful attack? Kills morale.
Most importantly Mario is so, so fun, whereas docis clearly the most boring game in the character. Ask peoples opinions around the next tourney. Clearly my opinion. Maybe people were just agreeing with me when i brought the subject up, watever. Doc is dull as hell
Last but not least, and not all infact but im bored now, Nobody is impressed by a good doc
, whereas peoples be inspired to pick up Mario after seeing yours in a few months. Also i can guarantee nobody will be able to find an equal amount of plusses that doc has over Mario, Mario just receives less representation because he is so much harder to use at a high level.
Do the right think, put in more time, and get a much better reward.
j3ly 4 pres
The uks best doc said himself, doc isnt about combing, he is about dsmash and bair leading to/facilitating edgeguarding
It is universally agreed by London, being there 1 doc main and 1 Mario main (bullet bill and myself), that Mario is a whole lot sexier. Seriously, a good Mario is so sexy
Mario has better recovery options. His cape lift (docs cape only stalls) not only gives him a whole lot of horizontal distance if used like marths sideB and following a downB, but allows him to go lower below the stage for a gimp without Sding.
It is of mine and several others opinions that doc has the worst recovery in the game. I mean its terrible, his upB gives a tiny bit more height than Marios, at the expense of loosing Marios RIDICULOUS sweetspot. The cape is awful for recovery, and in PAL Mario is lighter, allowing him to gain more horizontal distance per vertical distance fallen. He is also harder to combo in PAL. FIRST SENTANCE = PURPLE
Both characters facilitate bair for gimps off stage, but looking at it realistically (docs bair is better for gimping), if any character eats a bair from either Mario or doc, without a second jump to come back with, they are all but dead. My opinion, but my opinion is correct here.
Marios fsmash outranges everything doc has.
Marios nair is strong at the beginning, and docs nair gets stronger as it goes. Marios nair is a Ko move, and links from uair pretty much all the time. Provides a quick, abusable combo to get characters on all kinds of percents off the stage, ready to eat a bair on their 2nd jump. Or just to Ko at early %'s with shoddy DI.
Mariohas by far the superior platform game, with a weak bair that keeps opponents in the same spot, and the ability to get in 2 aerials in a FH under all the platforms. Docs bair packs too much knockback to be used on platforms, or in combing. This is debilitating seeing as Mario still retains 90% gimping power from the move. The floor hitbox on his dair, which combats down cancelling, also combos into nair/uair/usmash/dsmash/ftilt etc. His dair also autocancels on every low platform in the neutral stages from a FH, allowing for broken combos that doc cant do with his extra few frames of lag on every move.
Marios strong nair means you can bait grabs with uair, then jump out of uair (in the same SH) into nair, for a strong hit, leaving Mario safely autocancelled on the platform above.
Bair -> grab all dai on low %'s, doc does not have this luxury.
The ability to perfect waveland after a FH fireball means opponents get drawn into shield to avoid the ball, just to eat a full momentum nair in the face following the waveland, by which time they always unshield - thinking Mario cant make it that far, that fast.Tis leet.
Again with the recovery, Mario is very very difficult to edgeguard once you know all the options, and overall has one of the better, less gimpable recoveries. Doc gets gimped and cant recover, fact. opinion is fact here imo. (lol)
They can both CG equally good
Docs fair is undoubtedly better as a Ko move, but Marios fair punishes techs into his killer fsmash, which can be charged a fair amout before release. Death at 50% sometimes.
Marios utilt > knee in priority. Perhaps I should repeat - Utilt, > Knee. That is so awesome. Dairs floor hitbox also hits Falcon out of his sweetspot, just like shieks dsmash. That is also so awesome.
WD backwards -> fsmash beats every rushed aerial approach in the game. Super fast too, and conditions the hell outta your opponent in tourney. Every time they rush they eat a stupidly powerful attack? Kills morale.
Most importantly Mario is so, so fun, whereas docis clearly the most boring game in the character. Ask peoples opinions around the next tourney. Clearly my opinion. Maybe people were just agreeing with me when i brought the subject up, watever. Doc is dull as hell
Last but not least, and not all infact but im bored now, Nobody is impressed by a good doc
, whereas peoples be inspired to pick up Mario after seeing yours in a few months. Also i can guarantee nobody will be able to find an equal amount of plusses that doc has over Mario, Mario just receives less representation because he is so much harder to use at a high level.Do the right think, put in more time, and get a much better reward.
j3ly 4 pres
Tyserification
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2009
- Messages
- 1,541
Mario isn't as good as Doctor Mario.
It's a proven fact.
It's a proven fact.
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
I'm...just gonna post that in the Doc boards to wreak some havoc. >_>
ETWIST51294 and ty.. tyserif.. that guy,
Where are your counter arguments.
I believe I have taken the core reasons that people pick doc over Mario (aside from the killing power, that comes down to unique player skill and knowledge to account for), and provided counter arguments for each. That is how a debate works, you know this.
You are in the MBR, no? How many members of the MBR mained either character when they made that tier list, do you know roughly?
They gave advise based on the highest level of play without knowing the necessary strategy's that are useful at this time, in this metagame, and couldent have - that requires immense thought, analysing, all that, and needs to be up to date. I am trying to change Mario, its effing hard but i am the guy for the job. There i tried to refute the idea of the tierlist when applyed to Mario.
Debate with me, try not to get nasty and immature. Debate with me, or dont push the subject without greater than average knowledge on it. I know i may be comming off kinda aggressive, i promise in real life this would be comming out in a chatty interested tone, not an attacking one - serious.
So hurry up and debate, instead of pushing other peoples opinions (ie tier list)!.
What i gather from your posts is that you do not main either character at high level, and are conforming to the tier list, giving no actual reasoning behind your judgement other than doc is higher, and maybe you know more good docs than Marios. The idea that you cannot surpass the achievements of others (even if they were as leet at BM or eggz) is a terrible attitude to the game, and means less people like me are inspired to attempt to evolve lower characters
I would wager a guess that the places where good Marios play, if told to come up with a tier list (i would hope london feels this way), would put Mario above doc.
No point making a new post in reply to V V V
---------------
Oh ok lol, yeah i was about to will be interesting to see what becomes said
Where are your counter arguments.
I believe I have taken the core reasons that people pick doc over Mario (aside from the killing power, that comes down to unique player skill and knowledge to account for), and provided counter arguments for each. That is how a debate works, you know this.
You are in the MBR, no? How many members of the MBR mained either character when they made that tier list, do you know roughly?
They gave advise based on the highest level of play without knowing the necessary strategy's that are useful at this time, in this metagame, and couldent have - that requires immense thought, analysing, all that, and needs to be up to date. I am trying to change Mario, its effing hard but i am the guy for the job. There i tried to refute the idea of the tierlist when applyed to Mario.
Debate with me, try not to get nasty and immature. Debate with me, or dont push the subject without greater than average knowledge on it. I know i may be comming off kinda aggressive, i promise in real life this would be comming out in a chatty interested tone, not an attacking one - serious.
So hurry up and debate, instead of pushing other peoples opinions (ie tier list)!.
What i gather from your posts is that you do not main either character at high level, and are conforming to the tier list, giving no actual reasoning behind your judgement other than doc is higher, and maybe you know more good docs than Marios. The idea that you cannot surpass the achievements of others (even if they were as leet at BM or eggz) is a terrible attitude to the game, and means less people like me are inspired to attempt to evolve lower characters
I would wager a guess that the places where good Marios play, if told to come up with a tier list (i would hope london feels this way), would put Mario above doc.
No point making a new post in reply to V V V
---------------
Oh ok lol, yeah i was about to will be interesting to see what becomes said
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
Can you post that in the Doc boards please??? I'm no Doc main. I dunno ****. Mario's hella underrated. I just thought Doc was better.
I would love to see a Doc vs Mario debate.
I would love to see a Doc vs Mario debate.
Arcade
Smash Ace
I'd love to see some good ol' debate on this subject too because I also want to pick up one of the bros. I was thinking Doc for his pills, jab, and fair. But Mario is still tempting with his nair, ranged fsmash, and better recovery.
Arcade
Smash Ace
Taunt cancel >>> pingas
Now i dont main either character but i dig j3ly holding it down like a champ.
I still think doc is a better character BUT i also think he is the most boring character ever (and i main zelda for christ sake) and mario is soooo much sexier (and indeed has a much large *****, which at the end of the day attracts the chicas moreso than a PHD)
just for fun though i will strongly disagree on one part...
I think doc has a stupidly good recover. Like here in the US he has a warp almost as good as ness.
Marios id say is one of the worst recoveries.
tehe (:
I still think doc is a better character BUT i also think he is the most boring character ever (and i main zelda for christ sake) and mario is soooo much sexier (and indeed has a much large *****, which at the end of the day attracts the chicas moreso than a PHD)
just for fun though i will strongly disagree on one part...
I think doc has a stupidly good recover. Like here in the US he has a warp almost as good as ness.
Marios id say is one of the worst recoveries.
tehe (:
Arcade
Smash Ace
Mario may have the size but Doc has the endurance with his natural enhancement pills.
IMO Doc is cooler because of the hair and electricity > fire.
Mario doesnt need pills. Hes all natural, like a lion in heat.
Speaking of heat, fire is soo much better than electricity
Its way more manly to cook with fire than electricity
and if anyone has seen mario fight
you know hes always cooking up somthing
(especially in bed which is where combat counts the most)
Speaking of heat, fire is soo much better than electricity
Its way more manly to cook with fire than electricity
and if anyone has seen mario fight
you know hes always cooking up somthing
(especially in bed which is where combat counts the most)
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
How can you call Doc boring when you main Zelda.
Whats boring about a babe kicking people that sends an electric current through their body SO powerful that it causes there very soul to rupture admist the most tantlilyzingly orgasmic state of pain one can only dream/dread about?
Over...and over again
Over...and over again
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
that you cant combo into it. lol
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
The Lake makes a valid point. as far as princesses go, Zelda is sooo much hotter.
I have played both Mario and Doc. I find Doc a little easier to play but I like the reach that Mario has a lot. It feels like he's got an edge over Doc when it comes to spacing.
Pills or Fireballs??? whats better?
I have played both Mario and Doc. I find Doc a little easier to play but I like the reach that Mario has a lot. It feels like he's got an edge over Doc when it comes to spacing.
Pills or Fireballs??? whats better?
unknown522
Some guy
wtf, doc > mario.
-clicks-
.... oh this is nowhere near as fun as the doc version. XD
.... oh this is nowhere near as fun as the doc version. XD
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
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- 12,542
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- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
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Doc has a gayer D-smash, B-air, and Cape, otherwise I'd say Mario's stuff is better haha.
Mario has better combos (due to better damage output, the way his N-air works, better U-tilt, F-air meteor), his F-smash is more practical, and Cape makes it easy for Mario to avoid a number of traps.
Plus Mario actually can recover if you know what you're doing since his Cape makes it harder to predict what he'll do offstage, and walljump glitch on YS is too good. Doc however just fails offstage lol.
Mario has better combos (due to better damage output, the way his N-air works, better U-tilt, F-air meteor), his F-smash is more practical, and Cape makes it easy for Mario to avoid a number of traps.
Plus Mario actually can recover if you know what you're doing since his Cape makes it harder to predict what he'll do offstage, and walljump glitch on YS is too good. Doc however just fails offstage lol.
TJ Infinat
Smash Ace
First. Mario is faster.
I bet if Mario and doc had a race, that ***** doc would be huffin and puff in and blowin houses down before he even got like .. .idk . . . .30 feet. Mario would be "woop"in and "yee"in all over the place.
Second. Wall jump.
Now, this is really useful on stages like PS, YS, and maybe even Dream land, specially if you know how to walljump out of uB. ****s legit.
Mario has cooler clothing. I mean, the black coat and gloves work really well. but thats about all doc has goin for him. Mario, on the other hand, has the classic, the green outfit *which I play, seeing as I play green all the time* and the brown/white outfit, which is mad legit. *smirk* Hood Mario. Doc cant survive in the hood cause he looks rich and people be tryna front and steal and shiz.
utilt.
Marios uptil sends people up, not out like Docs. Good for combos. I mean, of course if someone's coming straight down on you, doc can hit them straight up and start a combo, but that would only be safe out of grabs, and most people I see play actually go for the up smash out of up throw, that or the ever powerful uair combo. think about it.
that's all I have right now.. . .
hope you enjoyed it.
I bet if Mario and doc had a race, that ***** doc would be huffin and puff in and blowin houses down before he even got like .. .idk . . . .30 feet. Mario would be "woop"in and "yee"in all over the place.
Second. Wall jump.
Now, this is really useful on stages like PS, YS, and maybe even Dream land, specially if you know how to walljump out of uB. ****s legit.
Mario has cooler clothing. I mean, the black coat and gloves work really well. but thats about all doc has goin for him. Mario, on the other hand, has the classic, the green outfit *which I play, seeing as I play green all the time* and the brown/white outfit, which is mad legit. *smirk* Hood Mario. Doc cant survive in the hood cause he looks rich and people be tryna front and steal and shiz.
utilt.
Marios uptil sends people up, not out like Docs. Good for combos. I mean, of course if someone's coming straight down on you, doc can hit them straight up and start a combo, but that would only be safe out of grabs, and most people I see play actually go for the up smash out of up throw, that or the ever powerful uair combo. think about it.
that's all I have right now.. . .
hope you enjoyed it.
a rookie
Smash Ace
Ok, I'm a Mario main. I've tried Doc in the past, so I know both ways. I'll make this relatively simple:
-Mario is faster, while Doc is slower.
-Doc has way more knockback and kills easier, while with Mario, is WAY harder to kill.
-Mario has the cape that sends him upward for better recovery, while Doc's just let's him hover momentarily.
Overall, Doc would be a better choice. I love Mario, and I'll make him good one day, but if you don't have the kind of effort to put in Mario, then go Doc if you want it easier. Honestly, it's probably a better choice if YOU want to win. I emphasized that because I think I can beat any character just as good with Mario than Doc can. Not bragging, just saying it's possible. Remember, it's your choice. There's really no wrong choice =)
-Mario is faster, while Doc is slower.
-Doc has way more knockback and kills easier, while with Mario, is WAY harder to kill.
-Mario has the cape that sends him upward for better recovery, while Doc's just let's him hover momentarily.
Overall, Doc would be a better choice. I love Mario, and I'll make him good one day, but if you don't have the kind of effort to put in Mario, then go Doc if you want it easier. Honestly, it's probably a better choice if YOU want to win. I emphasized that because I think I can beat any character just as good with Mario than Doc can. Not bragging, just saying it's possible. Remember, it's your choice. There's really no wrong choice =)
a rookie
Smash Ace
Ok, I'm a Mario main. I've tried Doc in the past, so I know both ways. I'll make this explanation relatively simple:
-Mario is faster, while Doc is slower.
-Doc has way more knockback and kills easier, while with Mario, is WAY harder to kill.
-Mario has the cape that sends him upward for better recovery, while Doc's just let's him hover momentarily.
-Mario combo's better, while Doc is more of a hit-follow kind of character
Overall, Doc would be a better choice. I love Mario, and I'll make him good one day, but if you don't have the kind of effort to put in Mario, then go Doc if you want it easier. Honestly, it's probably a better choice if YOU want to win. I emphasized that because I think I can beat any character just as good with Mario than Doc can. Not bragging, just saying it's possible. Remember, it's your choice. There's really no wrong choice =)
-Mario is faster, while Doc is slower.
-Doc has way more knockback and kills easier, while with Mario, is WAY harder to kill.
-Mario has the cape that sends him upward for better recovery, while Doc's just let's him hover momentarily.
-Mario combo's better, while Doc is more of a hit-follow kind of character
Overall, Doc would be a better choice. I love Mario, and I'll make him good one day, but if you don't have the kind of effort to put in Mario, then go Doc if you want it easier. Honestly, it's probably a better choice if YOU want to win. I emphasized that because I think I can beat any character just as good with Mario than Doc can. Not bragging, just saying it's possible. Remember, it's your choice. There's really no wrong choice =)
Signia
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,157
-Doc's pills (actually control space) > Mario's fireballs (only good for harassment?)
-Doc pretty much guarantees a kill at certain percentages with throw-fair
-Doc's dthrow-fsmash is more reliable (?)
-Doc's Jab leads to dsmash/throw (?)
-Doc's dash attack sends them up, possibly leading to followups
-Doc's bair gimps slightly better (?)
-Doc reliable fair as a kill move is more valuable than the combo-starting Mario fair, which is almost useless as a meteor. It only leads to Fsmash if it hits someone that's grounded, at a tight (?) percentage range; good luck pulling that off.
+Mario has less lag on his aerials
+Mario has an fast, mashable jab (my favorite jab combo in the game... speed, hitstun, no flurry, very little lag, can't get cc'd)
+Low aerial lag and a fast jab mean frame traps for SHFFL aerials (?)
+slightly (?) better recovery
+Fsmash has amazing range, priority, and safety
+utilt starts/continues combos
+dair starts/continues combos
+Mario is more fun and is impossible to john about, his kills more often occur due to comboing them to high percent before killing them than gimps
Doc is much easier than Mario because Doc has a means to an end of each stock against wide variety of matchups. His pill zoning and gimps are essential aspects of high level play -- stage control and efficient kills. Mario's heavy damage% punishment just doesn't mean anything if doesn't lead to taking the stock. Despite this, I believe that with enough dedication and a "combo into Fsmash" mindset, Mario's kills can be more efficient than Doc's (i.e. 0-edgeguard-death combos from any of his many starters) and with all his combo linking options he has the potential to kill any character on any part of the stage at a wide percentage range after touching them once, which isn't something any other character can do.
Edit: Lol nothing in that last paragraph is true. Mario relies on pseudocombos.
-Doc pretty much guarantees a kill at certain percentages with throw-fair
-Doc's dthrow-fsmash is more reliable (?)
-Doc's Jab leads to dsmash/throw (?)
-Doc's dash attack sends them up, possibly leading to followups
-Doc's bair gimps slightly better (?)
-Doc reliable fair as a kill move is more valuable than the combo-starting Mario fair, which is almost useless as a meteor. It only leads to Fsmash if it hits someone that's grounded, at a tight (?) percentage range; good luck pulling that off.
+Mario has less lag on his aerials
+Mario has an fast, mashable jab (my favorite jab combo in the game... speed, hitstun, no flurry, very little lag, can't get cc'd)
+Low aerial lag and a fast jab mean frame traps for SHFFL aerials (?)
+slightly (?) better recovery
+Fsmash has amazing range, priority, and safety
+utilt starts/continues combos
+dair starts/continues combos
+Mario is more fun and is impossible to john about, his kills more often occur due to comboing them to high percent before killing them than gimps
Doc is much easier than Mario because Doc has a means to an end of each stock against wide variety of matchups. His pill zoning and gimps are essential aspects of high level play -- stage control and efficient kills. Mario's heavy damage% punishment just doesn't mean anything if doesn't lead to taking the stock. Despite this, I believe that with enough dedication and a "combo into Fsmash" mindset, Mario's kills can be more efficient than Doc's (i.e. 0-edgeguard-death combos from any of his many starters) and with all his combo linking options he has the potential to kill any character on any part of the stage at a wide percentage range after touching them once, which isn't something any other character can do.
Edit: Lol nothing in that last paragraph is true. Mario relies on pseudocombos.
a rookie
Smash Ace
Eff Doc, just go Mario. Always remember: Mario = win ;D
otg
Smash Master
This is just wrong, everything else in your post IDC about.
a rookie
Smash Ace
otg
Smash Master
Mario has 1 less frame of lag on two of his aerials. That is the only thing that makes him faster.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
doc is better
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
OMG has anyone ever read the dr. mario frame data and compared it? He is techically FASTER or has better frame data for some thing his f-tilt is quicker and down-smash and up-tilt's hitbox lasts longer but no extra lag.
2 moves they both can autocancel from a SH easily and the 3 others only have a little bit more lag that barely means jack. They are like they closed to being the same frame data wise and that's how they're compared the most I would understand if you were compareing falco/fox, pichu/pikachu, link/young link, gannon/falcon marth/roy were there are some fairly big changes in frame data.
I'm sorry to have come from no where but it's just dumb to compare them so they are really close a like.
2 moves they both can autocancel from a SH easily and the 3 others only have a little bit more lag that barely means jack. They are like they closed to being the same frame data wise and that's how they're compared the most I would understand if you were compareing falco/fox, pichu/pikachu, link/young link, gannon/falcon marth/roy were there are some fairly big changes in frame data.
I'm sorry to have come from no where but it's just dumb to compare them so they are really close a like.
a rookie
Smash Ace
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
no it does for a number of reasons.
A dr. mario player can play faster than you just like a falco can play faster than fox.
dr. mario has a f-tilt with less lag and other moves last longer hitbox wise but no added lag.
fair=kill for dr.mario so I could argue that the faster kills make him faster at ending stocks like how gannon is uber slow but fastish at takeing stocks once he gets in.
Do they use these attacks all the time or stop them from any unbelieveable combos? No.
Read frame data becuase you talk about it and understand when it counts like puff's bair comes out on 9-12 and L-cancels at 10 so it's slowish right? NO NO NO. her air speed makes this very fast, eay to auto cancel or puff up again so it's not legit to sheild grab it or CC it even if your looking at raw frame data a bair with 10 fram L-cancel looks sheild grabable it isn't till to add it to real life smash.
A dr. mario player can play faster than you just like a falco can play faster than fox.
dr. mario has a f-tilt with less lag and other moves last longer hitbox wise but no added lag.
fair=kill for dr.mario so I could argue that the faster kills make him faster at ending stocks like how gannon is uber slow but fastish at takeing stocks once he gets in.
Do they use these attacks all the time or stop them from any unbelieveable combos? No.
Read frame data becuase you talk about it and understand when it counts like puff's bair comes out on 9-12 and L-cancels at 10 so it's slowish right? NO NO NO. her air speed makes this very fast, eay to auto cancel or puff up again so it's not legit to sheild grab it or CC it even if your looking at raw frame data a bair with 10 fram L-cancel looks sheild grabable it isn't till to add it to real life smash.
a rookie
Smash Ace
Blah blah blah, Mario's better for me, haha.
Doc's too easy, like algebra =)
Doc's too easy, like algebra =)
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
What's harder?
legion598
Smash Ace
mario is definately more entertaining than doc
AmishTechnology
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2004
- Messages
- 374
- NNID
- KIMPHIE
Couldn't you just UF-Smash (up-angled) in order to rectify the sweet-spot problem and use DF or regular F-Smash when you're certain you have the range?
And man if only Mario's F-Air was a spike...
Or if his U-Smash were nearly as powerful as it was in SSB64 (Fox/Pikachu-worthy power)...
And man if only Mario's F-Air was a spike...
Or if his U-Smash were nearly as powerful as it was in SSB64 (Fox/Pikachu-worthy power)...
Tamoo
Smash Master
Lol j3ly, I can assure you that in no way does london think mario > doc.
And I personally find doc's recovery much harder to gimp than mario's, the trajectory of doc's pills seem to go at the perfect angle to deter edgeguarders whilst mario's seem to arc higher making it easier to come in diagonally on him.
And I personally find doc's recovery much harder to gimp than mario's, the trajectory of doc's pills seem to go at the perfect angle to deter edgeguarders whilst mario's seem to arc higher making it easier to come in diagonally on him.
uhhmm you dont live in london you dont come to our smashfests =/
mario is still a long away away from the edge - you cannot 'come in diagonally' with anywhere near as much ease as you make it seem. Sometimes yes, but mario has alot of options - enough to not get hit alot of the time. this comes down to personal skill though
in addition this, with upwards DI mario can get in 2 fireballs. One as he comes in line, and the other a rising one.
if the opponent gets hit by the fireball/is in any other stance than invincible, then an angled upB will always stage spike. this is a large advantage. If the opponent gets hit by fireball on BF, its over, regardless which angle upB shoots at
the 2 options are to not be in the way of the fireballs, or to be invincible in the way of the fireballs. I think the effect youre looking to describe i think is how docs pills are closer to him - they kinda travel infront of him, which i dont deny atall covers his path very well, but i dont think he has as many options as mario. doc can also fire 2 pills, but thats more just 2 pills together, and not a whole lot better than 1 pill. Mario can shoot one at the stage, one at ledge, 2 at ledge etc. plus the cape lift is very effective for confusing opponents, as well as providing a very good defence against edgeguarding, but docs does that too
its alot harder (i say alot harder, what i mean is not as incredibly easy) to sweetspot upward and normal angled fsmashes than downwards angled one. downwards will almost definatly either hit or miss, i dont believe i ever saw a sourspotted down-angled fsmash
mario is still a long away away from the edge - you cannot 'come in diagonally' with anywhere near as much ease as you make it seem. Sometimes yes, but mario has alot of options - enough to not get hit alot of the time. this comes down to personal skill though
in addition this, with upwards DI mario can get in 2 fireballs. One as he comes in line, and the other a rising one.
if the opponent gets hit by the fireball/is in any other stance than invincible, then an angled upB will always stage spike. this is a large advantage. If the opponent gets hit by fireball on BF, its over, regardless which angle upB shoots at
the 2 options are to not be in the way of the fireballs, or to be invincible in the way of the fireballs. I think the effect youre looking to describe i think is how docs pills are closer to him - they kinda travel infront of him, which i dont deny atall covers his path very well, but i dont think he has as many options as mario. doc can also fire 2 pills, but thats more just 2 pills together, and not a whole lot better than 1 pill. Mario can shoot one at the stage, one at ledge, 2 at ledge etc. plus the cape lift is very effective for confusing opponents, as well as providing a very good defence against edgeguarding, but docs does that too
the best way around mario's sour spot is to always aim downwards if you are not spaced for an up-angle. i dont see any reason to use the normal one... downwards for getting peoples recovery, downwards for all opportunities apart from if upward spacing is possible.
its alot harder (i say alot harder, what i mean is not as incredibly easy) to sweetspot upward and normal angled fsmashes than downwards angled one. downwards will almost definatly either hit or miss, i dont believe i ever saw a sourspotted down-angled fsmash
Tamoo
Smash Master
I go to a lot more than you think then, was with OoC just last weekend actually. I don't understand why you think london thinks mario > doc when ben comes and does really well every time he comes to london.
But i agree with the majority verdict that mario is more entertaining to watch/play
But i agree with the majority verdict that mario is more entertaining to watch/play
PERSONAL:
if you want to ***** about londons scene or my playstyle PM me. dont waste lines on the forum - there was no analysis, no verdict, nothin about the character
bens been on the scene AT LEAST 5 times longer than me, and our last tourney match came to 1-1, last stock, 100% each. SO one could argue that i am certainly unlocking marios potential a hell of alot quicker then ben managed docs, and ill have to ask him myself about his placements.
relevant material or GTFO Tamao. you bring stress to my life, arguments with a varaity of peoples on a variety of boards- but you do provide a good few laughs at every smashfest i ever attended without even being there so ty (and gtfo or make a good point)
Mario:
i just never see docs metagame evolving.. while i still see so much potential with mario. potential that is being unlocked faaast. or isit really how the community poses it, you just HAVE to be the better player to win with mario, or atleast have supreme knowledge of all the matchups to the point of perfection.
I still think that the cape is enormously underused. it deters bair edgeguarding almost perfectly in a ditto/ vs doc. It would demotivate the crap out of somebody who keeps getting their approaches literally flipped - and they take damage. The cape is the only way to deal damage to a disjointed hitbox - in the entire game. no other chars can do that. also it messes up their l-cancel, but it comes out pretty slow especially from shield
if you want to ***** about londons scene or my playstyle PM me. dont waste lines on the forum - there was no analysis, no verdict, nothin about the character
bens been on the scene AT LEAST 5 times longer than me, and our last tourney match came to 1-1, last stock, 100% each. SO one could argue that i am certainly unlocking marios potential a hell of alot quicker then ben managed docs, and ill have to ask him myself about his placements.
relevant material or GTFO Tamao. you bring stress to my life, arguments with a varaity of peoples on a variety of boards- but you do provide a good few laughs at every smashfest i ever attended without even being there so ty (and gtfo or make a good point)
Mario:
i just never see docs metagame evolving.. while i still see so much potential with mario. potential that is being unlocked faaast. or isit really how the community poses it, you just HAVE to be the better player to win with mario, or atleast have supreme knowledge of all the matchups to the point of perfection.
I still think that the cape is enormously underused. it deters bair edgeguarding almost perfectly in a ditto/ vs doc. It would demotivate the crap out of somebody who keeps getting their approaches literally flipped - and they take damage. The cape is the only way to deal damage to a disjointed hitbox - in the entire game. no other chars can do that. also it messes up their l-cancel, but it comes out pretty slow especially from shield