Tech skill or Practical skill?

[Mr.Fakeman]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, what would be better. Not learning wdash,l-cancel,shfflc and all the other stuff and just focusing on the practical game e.g. predict the tech, bait & punish, wait for the roll or dodge. Or learning multishines,all the flashy ledge tricks, waveshines, thunders combo and etc. Because right now I'm working on tech skill and fundamentals for Fox, but what is more important out of the two? I'm still trying determine which of the two areas I need to focus on more. I've played alot of people who don't really focus much on tech skill (not being able to waveshine etc.) and there really good players, then I say to myself "am I wasting my time on tech skill? should I just stop and focus completely on the mental game?"

So what do you fellas have to say about it?

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

Dont abandon the basic techs: wavedashing, L cancelling, SHFFLs, etc....

They are crucial in Fox's metagame. However, you also need to focus on his "practical" skill, or in other words, just playing smart. Learn to space attacks and be patient, and try to focus on mindgames.

The practical skills lead to opportunities to apply the tech skill, so good Fox players need a combination of both.

I used to think that my Fox sucked because I couldnt do infintes JC shines on someone, but now I know that I dont have to in order to be a good fox.

 

[Smoke and smash]

You have to learn basic technicl stuff while learning the "practical game" as you call it as best as you possibly can. Then improve technical game at a rate you feel comfortable with. Basically try get as profficent as possible in as many aspects as possible. Everything ties together. Like, tech skill is useless if you can't get an opening. But openings won't result in effective damage if your tech skill is zilch.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

better yet tech skill is useless if yoou don't know what to do with it. learn your basics and master your mind the deadlyest weapon you have every tech skill mastered because a new tool you use.

 

[Strong Badam]

i agree that some techs (multishines, shinebair stuff w/ fox, etc.) are nearly completely useless and shouldn't have time spent on them to learn, but waveshining, wavedash, l-cancel, shffl, etc. are essential to speed up your game and remove some of the limits that are placed on movement and escape options. For example, Mew2King's Fox only really used SHDL as far as technical stuff to win his matches; his other tech stuff was more for show/technical consistency.

 

[Stratford]

I'd say first priority is to work on the basic tech skill. This is something you need to put a conscious effort into, while the practical aspect will come more naturally.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if you can't WD or lcancel you *can't* do any mindgames.

and most of the other flashy **** isn't useful in mindgames (who is afraid of multishines? you have a hitbox out on TWO frames, oh noes!)

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

Looks like I only need to learn up to basic tech skill, one of the only advance tech skill I can do consistently in a battle is waveshine. That's because I run up to people expecting I'd attack them, wait for the dodge then waveshine. When I think about the tech skill I learn, there are very limited if not, one opportunity I can apply it to.

@Stratford: nothing really comes naturally for me here, I need to put conscious effort in both tech and practical (mingames etc.).

Yep, well looks like I'll work on practical game for now. Thanks for the insight guys

 

[WeretigerX]

Yeah, it's easier to get your practical game up and then learn the technical stuff after.

 

[TresChikon]

Learn them together, tech skills lets you punish harder as Fox.

 

[Lovage]

refusing to learn any skill, no matter how seemingly useless, is gimping urself

 

[TresChikon]

Why not learn it? You can hold unlimited Smashfests anywhere anytime with your CPU buddies to practice.

Mindgames and spacing comes slowly, but tech skills doesn't have to.

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

You can hold unlimited Smashfests anywhere anytime with your CPU buddies to practice.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Smoke and smash]

It means you can practice tech skill versus computers, which is true. You can't learn all the tech skill that way, but you can cover a lot of it.

The only things you can't really practice is shield pressure, teching while recovering, and chainthrowing.

 

[Deleted member]

technical skill is just doing exactly what you want to do. Having bad tech skill is asking to get ***** very, very badly.

 

[Cactuar]

Tech skill should evolve naturally to match your "mindgames". Forcing it to be unnaturally higher than what your mental game is ready for is a risk imo.

 

[Ace55]

Just an example:

First friendly I ever played at a tourney was against a Fox who 'danced' around the stage like a maniac, after the first shine he landed he just waveshined me of the stage and spiked me. After that he pretty much never took a stock anymore though, because he danced right into pretty much any attack I threw out. So yeah, I'd say focusing too much on technical stuff can make you a terrible player. With this player specifically he just didn't seem to think well enough about what he was doing, he was just too focused on executing his moves.

Somehow, you should find a middle ground between technical or 'practical' improvement.

 

[Smoke and smash]

The way I see it, it's good to try to push your technical skill farther than you can handle. For a long time, you'll have to focus on what you are doing but eventually you will be able to do it effortlessly. At this point you try to push it farther until you can perform that fluidly without thinking as well. It might be time consuming but eventually you can reap the benfits of having it. Tech skill advantage is hard to have these days, but it matters and profficient tech skill is needed if you intend to play at a high level. That is how I have been approaching the game recently and I have begun to improve dramatically.

I am by no means implying practical game is not important, it needs to be improved at the highest rate you can manage. Constanly judging yourself and improving your game, it needs to happen and will happen if you strive to get better. You have to keep making better decisions, improve character movement, learn timing on what your doing, the best ways to react, and so on. Make everything you do an art. It's quite rewarding reflecting on the art you have made in my opinion, but try to not to think too much on the past or whether you win or lose and keep trucking towards improvement.

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

Just an example:

First friendly I ever played at a tourney was against a Fox who 'danced' around the stage like a maniac, after the first shine he landed he just waveshined me of the stage and spiked me. After that he pretty much never took a stock anymore though, because he danced right into pretty much any attack I threw out. So yeah, I'd say focusing too much on technical stuff can make you a terrible player. With this player specifically he just didn't seem to think well enough about what he was doing, he was just too focused on executing his moves.

Somehow, you should find a middle ground between technical or 'practical' improvement.

I remember my 2nd tournament that I went to, I met a couple of people like that. I used to main Falcon back then too, I was playing this Falco and he was doing all the flashy pillaring techs on me including the SHFFLDair>jump up and shine>2ndjumpBair stuff. My approach was ***** because he kept SHLasering me and whenever I jumped he would FHLaser, after I the match I played again and I just needed some Uthrow knees and stuff to win.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Tech skill should evolve naturally to match your "mindgames". Forcing it to be unnaturally higher than what your mental game is ready for is a risk imo.

this.

if you are doing something but you don't fully know why, you are wasting your time and energy and making yourself a worse player.

For example, I have a friend that used to love to shield pressure with falco after seeing shiz do it. Against players around his level or below, it would work mostly because they didn't understand it either and just tried to grab all the time. Basically, he was getting false reinforcement of his bad habit and it took a lot of effort to break it. This could have been averted if he understood why he needed to lcancel and shine and then apply it into his game. Instead, he knew he could lcancel and shine and threw it into his game without ever understanding when it should be used.

 

[takeurlife2]

i heard gnes played fox

 

[chiZZLeSD]

Tech skill should evolve naturally to match your "mindgames". Forcing it to be unnaturally higher than what your mental game is ready for is a risk imo.

genius.

i think you should develop your mindset first, and then determine which tech skill is important for how you want to play. figure out how you want to add damage and kill, then learn solid techniques to effectively do so

 

[-PM-]

tech skill is used as tools to advance your game as you progress.

 

[m&m1992]

when you couple both skills you just become perfect
because tech skill is training your mind in order to controll you character better
and practical skill is necessary in matches to make the right dessicion
when you use both skills you doesn´t make mistakes and always gives the right answer to every combo of your enemy

 

[Snowmanthatknows]

You want to be able to be smart before you put in your tech skill to your game. Learn to hit before you wavedash everywhere.

Take it slow, practice tech skills on your own or increase the more you use them in matches more and more until it'll soon become seconds nature.

Just running around being flashy because you can will surely make you fail in a match. Use your brain before anything. Take my word for it.

 

[RaynEX]

he's a snowman. listen to him he knows.

 

[`DNS`]

I remember my 2nd tournament that I went to, I met a couple of people like that. I used to main Falcon back then too, I was playing this Falco and he was doing all the flashy pillaring techs on me including the SHFFLDair>jump up and shine>2ndjumpBair stuff. My approach was ***** because he kept SHLasering me and whenever I jumped he would FHLaser, after I the match I played again and I just needed some Uthrow knees and stuff to win.

sounds like forward vs isai

 

[Mr.Fakeman]

Snowmen prophesy righteously, no sarcasm intended!

EDIT: Thanks for the suggestions on what skills to work on guys, I can waveshine people in matches now.

 

[Animal]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, what would be better. Not learning wdash,l-cancel,shfflc and all the other stuff and just focusing on the practical game e.g. predict the tech, bait & punish, wait for the roll or dodge. Or learning multishines,all the flashy ledge tricks, waveshines, thunders combo and etc. Because right now I'm working on tech skill and fundamentals for Fox, but what is more important out of the two? I'm still trying determine which of the two areas I need to focus on more. I've played alot of people who don't really focus much on tech skill (not being able to waveshine etc.) and there really good players, then I say to myself "am I wasting my time on tech skill? should I just stop and focus completely on the mental game?"

So what do you fellas have to say about it?

you should develop mndgames (through experience) and tech skill should just help further your mindgames. better movement = better mindgames. more options= more creativity=better mindgames

 

[brg]

if you can't WD or lcancel you *can't* do any mindgames.

Id have to say this is completely false. If this was sarcasm, well played.

 

[RaynEX]

If you can't lcancel, you have bigger things to worry about than mindgames.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

@brg, its totally true. maybe at much lower levels of skill it works, but if you played me and couldnt l cancel or wd, i wouldn't even have to play mindgames i would just exploit the fact that all your moves will have lots of lag and that your ground mobility would be nothing. i could literally stand in 1 spot and you wouldn't be able to do anything. if i started moving, you couldnt defend yourself. you couldn't move or act in a way that would throw me off guard or get through my defenses (unless, maybe, if you played sheik)

 

[tubes]

Tech skill enables you to use your practical skill more effectively and efficiently. Practical skill enables you to get the most out of your tech skill. They scale with each other like 2 spells in the same skill tree of an RPG. Best to learn both.

 

[unknown522]

ATs are better than practical skill, though ATs are practical and a must if you want to be good at the game.

 

[MarioMariox2]

Order to learn em: Basic ATs, then Mindgames, then Character-Specific ATs. IMO.

 

[RaynEX]

Unfortunetely, mindgames develop at their own pace, and trying to control when you 'learn' them is futile.

Pvp and tournament experience are what you need to start getting you in the habit of actively thinking mid-match. Mindgames is a word usually associated with player A exploiting player B's redundant defensive or offensive measures, often in a methodical manner to force a desirable position with which to further pressure.

Things like:

- training your opponent to shield and grabbing them while they sit there

- d.i. manipulation (i.e.: CG a Fox/Falco on a platform near an edge, and when they try to d.i towards the stage bthrow them, they survival d.i. and shine combos. You basically get a free bthrow shine edge-guard)

But this is obviously much larger than I am making it out to be. Its hard to isolate its meaning when truly, such an open ended concept can manifest itself almost limitlessly. (This holds true when you think about the assortment of varied and diverse playstyles we have in the community. Most players eventually learn to apply their brainwork during games and benefit in their own personalized way.)

Bottom line is, 'mindgames' (or simply being a smart, top level player), come into play on their own time - not yours.

 

[C.R.Z]

tech skill takes practise, practicall skill can be picked up. go for the harder option

 

[Doomblaze]

If you can't lcancel, you have bigger things to worry about than mindgames.

QFT
You look at the metagame today and how long everyone has been playing for, and you realize that if you miss an l-cancel or a SHL with falco you will probably get 0-deathed or take like 50 damage if you dont.

 

[TresChikon]

Basics -> Spacing -> Tech skills -> Mindgames (Whatever that is)

Spammy Marth > noob Fox who can waveshine.

 

[MarioMariox2]

2009 is a harder era to learn smash.