TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[payasofobia]

Remember, we proved that NES games weren't in proper proportions?

Children aren't army captains. =/

Yeah, but the box art was, right?

Even (the uncanonical) Captain Nintedo showed him as a very small kid.

But yeah, he had wings in his games, so I dunno either. This is a complicated situation. I will elaborate if asked.

Still, he is a kid. Wheter or not he can shoot arrows effectively can be debated.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Stuff

Maybe....we could do a fusion of sorts?

Mixing the grown-up Pit witht the equipment of the classic Pit?

 

[payasofobia]

Maybe....we could do a fusion of sorts?

Mixing the grown-up Pit witht the equipment of the classic Pit?

Maybe. The only way I can see Pit winning this MU is by mixing him. Otherwise, he would be screwed no matter which Pit we choose. The only difference would be how screwed he is.


In one hand, the grown up will lose this MU and many others because his weapons suck, but at least he still has a chance against quite a good chunk of characters.

On the other, the kid will lose this MU because of a lack of strenhgt, and it will be immpossible for him to win any others because of a lack of strenght. His arrows would suck.

Mixed? He is Link without the close range defense.

 

[JOE!]

mixed he's a guy wtih a bow and little armor...

 

[payasofobia]

Yeah....but a bow is still a bow right? That instantly puts him with the high tiers.

I....don't really think that mixing him is the best way to go because it goes against the established rules of the thread, but I wouldn't complain if we did mix him. But I know quite a lot of Pit haters that would.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Pit's bow is a shortbow so he can pull it regardless.

 

[payasofobia]

Pit's bow is a shortbow so he can pull it regardless.

Yeah, but shortbows were made mostly to have an increased rate of fire. It really lacks on the speed, power and range. And wit Pit's small size, pulling a shortbow would take the same effort that an adult puts when puling a medium-sized bow, without the power these have.

So the rate of fire advantage of shortbows would be lost IMO. And Ness still has bombs.

 

[IsmaR]

That is Kid Icarus, not Pit.

Pit has bow and arrows. Yes, the swords are not canon, that was from smash, remember? Reminder, I told you that sword-bows were impossible first time we brought this up... but nobody listens to me.

The StarFox characters get reflectors, which aren't canon. Ganon got the greatsword he never used in any games canonically.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

The StarFox characters get reflectors, which aren't canon.

They don't have them anyway, I disproved them.

The Spacies will either suffer the side-effects of severely high EMF or be burned/ roasted/ broiled alive by the built up heat energy absorbed.

 

[Nova9000]

Yeah....but a bow is still a bow right? That instantly puts him with the high tiers.

I....don't really think that mixing him is the best way to go because it goes against the established rules of the thread, but I wouldn't complain if we did mix him. But I know quite a lot of Pit haters that would.

*raises hand*

and new avatar

 

[payasofobia]

The StarFox characters get reflectors, which aren't canon. Ganon got the greatsword he never used in any games canonically.

Much better, then. Ike auto-wins against a weaponless OoT Ganon.

 

[JOE!]

so, on the subject of Pit:

should we just make him his teen version seen in brawl, With a bow?

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Alright, one last thing for Ganny then.

How realistic is it for Ganondorf to be able to dodge the axe? In both WW and TP he dodges arrows at close range.

If the armor/robes he wears is/are too heavy/in the way, then I concede that Ganondorf loses hard.

 

[payasofobia]

Alright, one last thing for Ganny then.

How realistic is it for Ganondorf to be able to dodge the axe? In both WW and TP he dodges arrows at close range.

If the armor/robes he wears is/are too heavy/in the way, then I concede that Ganondorf loses hard.

Arrows and throwing axes are fast, bro. Arrows because of the catapult like effect and axes because of the huge momentum built by the motion of the arm.

It is humanly impossible to dodge them.

And this also gives Ike a chance against opponents with arrows. He will get pierced, but the opponent will have his skull open.

so, on the subject of Pit:

should we just make him his teen version seen in brawl, With a bow?

Sure, no prob. This means Ness loses and that Roy vs Pit should be redone. Roy will lose, hard.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The StarFox characters get reflectors, which aren't canon. Ganon got the greatsword he never used in any games canonically.

What?

In every single Zelda game where he has a sword, it's a greatsword (or two).


The thing is, he's so large that it doesn't look like a greatsword compared to him because he's just that large.


Period.

Ganon has his choice of Greatswords.



Also the reflectors are unrealistic and non-canon.

Alright, one last thing for Ganny then.

How realistic is it for Ganondorf to be able to dodge the axe? In both WW and TP he dodges arrows at close range.

If the armor/robes he wears is/are too heavy/in the way, then I concede that Ganondorf loses hard.

Not realistic at all, and the armor will do little to impede him.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Piss.

Well, at least he pretty much beats everyone who doesn't have a deadly projectile and isn't Bowser.

Right?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Piss.

Well, at least he pretty much beats everyone who doesn't have a deadly projectile and isn't Bowser.

Right?

Ike can do to Bowser what Ganondorf does to him and the axe can probably pierce directly.


The problem characters have with bowser is they often simply can't damage him, but he's not very mobile.

Characters that can damage him and are more mobile can fight him with varying success, I have a list of characters that beat him solidly that I'll bring up as he's matched against them.

 

[JOE!]

ok, so real quick, ROY vs PIT

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Ike can do to Bowser what Ganondorf does to him and the axe can probably pierce directly.


The problem characters have with bowser is they often simply can't damage him, but he's not very mobile.

Characters that can damage him and are more mobile can fight him with varying success, I have a list of characters that beat him solidly that I'll bring up as he's matched against them.

No, I was talking about Ganondorf.

 

[JOE!]

Ike can do to Bowser what Ganondorf does to him and the axe can probably pierce directly.

no...ike cannot because he is even smaller than Ganon, he has less force...

why do you not factor in size?

EDIT:

not to mention he lacks height in order to get the leverage on bowser's massive frame to whack the right areas.

 

[adumbrodeus]

ok, so real quick, ROY vs PIT

Is it quick?


Pit is wielding a short bow, will he be able to pierce Roy's chestplate reliably? (because it's an odds thing, Roy ***** him in close combat)


Also, unlike Zelda, Pit having a quiver doesn't seem to work, mostly because it would interfer with his wings, and also since the principal of his character is using magic arrows, it wouldn't be a given in his society.

no...ike cannot because he is even smaller than Ganon, he has less force...

why do you not factor in size?

EDIT:

not to mention he lacks height in order to get the leverage on bowser's massive frame to whack the right areas.

Whether he's strong enough to actually auto-kill, well that's unlikely, but he does get enough impact force to deal damage, and can break Bowser's arms when attacked.

Also, overhead strikes...


There are crucial organs throughout Bowser's body, making him able to deal damage, and making it a battle of "attrition".

 

[payasofobia]

ok, so real quick, ROY vs PIT

Pit has arrows. Roy has nothing except a sword. Roy's head is unprotected. If Pit misses or doesn't kill him in one hit, then he is screwed, right?

HOHOHO, no. He has a shortbow. Shortbows have an amazing rate of fire. He will follow up with another arrow right away.



It's simple, really.

Pit wins by headshot.

 

[JOE!]

pit only has a few arrows on hand, how accurate is Pit? is he a sharp-shooter like link?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Pit has arrows. Roy has nothing except a sword. Roy's head is unprotected. If Pit misses or doesn't kill him in one hit, then he is screwed, right?

HOHOHO, no. He has a shortbow. Shortbows have an amazing rate of fire. He will follow up with another arrow right away.



It's simple, really.

Pit wins by headshot.

I believe we discussed this earlier.


Pit is Canonically a kid, which means that having a shortbow is what allows him to use it period (as opposed to not being gimped by RL). Actually, you talked about this.


He doesn't have that rate of fire, and he also has the issue that unlike Zelda, he has no reason for a quiver.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

pit only has a few arrows on hand, how accurate is Pit? is he a sharp-shooter like link?

Well....by the end of the game he became skilled enough to lead an entire army. And the bow is his primary weapon so he is probably better than Link.

Also, I found a way to work out the Pit is a kid thingy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijneLWYjL_Q

 

[payasofobia]

I believe we discussed this earlier.


Pit is Canonically a kid, which means that having a shortbow is what allows him to use it period (as opposed to not being gimped by RL). Actually, you talked about this.


He doesn't have that rate of fire, and he also has the issue that unlike Zelda, he has no reason for a quiver.

so, on the subject of Pit:

should we just make him his teen version seen in brawl, With a bow?

I am pretty sure we mixed him. But now that I have seen this:

Well....by the end of the game he became skilled enough to lead an entire army. And the bow is his primary weapon so he is probably better than Link.

Also, I found a way to work out the Pit is a kid thingy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijneLWYjL_Q

It means that Pit could technicaly be treated like an adult, without twisting the rules of the thread.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It means that Pit could technicaly be treated like an adult, without twisting the rules of the thread.

Ok that's fine and good.


Now what about extra arrows, IRL they aren't magically generated.


And forgot the most important point *facepalm*


A quiver would interfer with his wings.


Pit has one shot, fine against characters with nothing effective long-ranged and no armor, but the chest-plate covers his center of mass, will it be sufficient to pierce it?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Pit vs. Fox is a no brainier. It's asking the simple question what would win gun or a bow?

 

[payasofobia]

Ok that's fine and good.


Now what about extra arrows, IRL they aren't magically generated.


And forgot the most important point *facepalm*


A quiver would interfer with his wings.


Pit has one shot, fine against characters with nothing effective long-ranged and no armor, but the chest-plate covers his center of mass, will it be sufficient to pierce it?

Can't he carry them in his hand when moving and then leave them on the ground beside him when shooting? He would still have a more limited number of arrows though, but it wouldn't be just one.

And, can't he shoot at the head?

 

[JOE!]

how accruate are short bows? and/or Pit?

 

[payasofobia]

Pit is accurate.

Shortbows....not so much. They sacrifice speed, range, accuracy and power for a better rate of fire, comfort, aiming and ease of use.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Can't he carry them in his hand when moving and then leave them on the ground beside him when shooting? He would still have a more limited number of arrows though, but it wouldn't be just one.

That he could, but the main issue with that is it causes problems with "running and gunning".

And, can't he shoot at the head?

You're sort of missing the point, aiming for the head is bad because it decreases your chance of hitting a great deal.


Center of body mass is good because, A. it's fatal or at least crippling, and B. it's relatively easy to hit.


Head has A, but is absolutely horrible in B, because it's small and designed so it's difficult to get a solid hit in (partially due to shape, and partially due to a lot tougher bone protecting vital parts).


So, this is a very significant issue for pit.

 

[payasofobia]

That he could, but the main issue with that is it causes problems with "running and gunning".



You're sort of missing the point, aiming for the head is bad because it decreases your chance of hitting a great deal.


Center of body mass is good because, A. it's fatal or at least crippling, and B. it's relatively easy to hit.


Head has A, but is absolutely horrible in B, because it's small and designed so it's difficult to get a solid hit in (partially due to shape, and partially due to a lot tougher bone protecting vital parts).


So, this is a very significant issue for pit.

He stil got plenty of his lower torso uncovered.

 

[adumbrodeus]

He stil got plenty of his lower torso uncovered.

Look at his canon representation.


In the canonical representation his armor stops at his groin.

 

[payasofobia]

Look at his canon representation.


In the canonical representation his armor stops at his groin.

It still is very uncovered. especially at the sides.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It still is very uncovered. especially at the sides.

I'm not saying there aren't kinks, but because he's got the vast majority of his center of body mass covered, Pit's regulated to difficult shots with an inaccurate weapon and very limited shots... when he can really move while shooting.


Sides are difficult to hit solidly, and Roy's front on the center of body mass is covered, this is trick shot status against a moving target.




Also, where did that pic originally come from, without a legit source, gameplay data holds.

 

[payasofobia]

Official art.

http://www.eternalemblem.net/art/FE6_OA/Roy.jpg

 

[JOE!]

Pit also has only 1-2 arrows to work with without a quiver...

 

[payasofobia]

Pit also has only 1-2 arrows to work with without a quiver...

Then he is screwed. Shortbows are easier to use but lose much of what makes bows broken. The only thing that would save him is a huge amount of arrows to shoot quickly at the opponent and a headshot.



So yeah, outcomes:

Pit vs Ness: Pit wins.

Pit vs Fox: Pit loses.

Pit vs Roy: Pit loses.



And while we are at it: Ike vs Ganon: Ike wins.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Official art.

http://www.eternalemblem.net/art/FE6_OA/Roy.jpg

Cool, so now we gotta ask the question, how reliably will Pit be able to take down Roy (aka shot his vulnerable areas solidly) before Roy approaches to melee range and proceeds to **** him?

With very limited shots, mobility limited by awkward method of carrying additional arrows, a bow that emphasizes rate of fire over accuracy, against an opponent who is covered except in difficult to shoot places (and looking at the plate from the side, a shortbow penetrating it is VERY unlikely, they're pretty thick), how many bouts will Pit win out of 1000 tests?

Pit vs Fox: Pit loses.

Fox's laser is realistically too slow-killing and he lacks a way of deflecting the arrows reliably for the vast majority of his body.

Pit would be able to aim carefully and fire one shot to center of body mass and win.

And while we are at it: Ike vs Ganon: Ike wins.

True.