TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Blitzmidfielder]

Wolf has some fancy tech and good combat skill, but Snake is better as a soldier overall. The big principle here is that you can't hit what you can't see very easily, and finding Snake is nigh impossible. Wolf would need a Wolfen or Landmaster to take him on, and Snake can decimate any vehicle with ease.

I wouldn't say 'with ease', but the legacy does have a reputation and clean record for it.

EDIT: This had got to be the most heated and ugly discussion ever.

 

[Zajice]

EDIT: This had got to be the most heated and ugly discussion ever.

At least in this thread anyway.

 

[daisho]

IDK, the falco vs falcon arguments were pretty ugly.

The snake people aren't even bringing any other arguments than "OMGZZZ SNAKE IS TEH COOELEEEST!!!! HE IZ TEH KILLER, NOBODY CAN KILL HIM!!!1"

Hate to break it to you but all his inhumane skill does not exist. He is merely a talented soldier in this battle. He can't take on towering robots. He can't take multiple sniper shots. He feels pain when he gets shot (though all of wolf's weapons would probably kill him).

Wolf beats him in weaponry and that is too big of a gap to overcome for snake.

Long Range Wolf has auto homing rockets... snake is a good shot but snake is a moving target with a reflector. And he has armor.

Wolfs Blaster is better than any pistol snake has.

Snakes grenades are not as good as wolf's.

Snake has nothing like a blaster.

Snake does win close range, but in a battle with guns most of it will be fought at far ranges.

 

[Snowstalker]

I'm pretty sure that, because Snake was genetically engineered, that he does have some pretty super abilities.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

He's very smart. He's strong and fast. He's not laser-proof.
Wolf has body armor, thick leather and the like that stops Snake's 9mm pretty easily. The Nikta has to be guided manually. Snake's frag grenades take longer to go of than Wolf's plasma grenades, and do less damage (Wolf's grenades take out heavy machinery in one blast). Wolf's senses are higher than humans; he'd be able to smell or hear Snake coming if he tried to sneak up on him.

Wolf's blaster has infinite ammo and shoots straight forever. It locks on to targets automatically while you fire it, and it can be fired pretty fast. It can be charged for extra killing power.
The energy grenade does massive damage to anyone remotely close to it, and can destroy a tank single-handedly. Like Snake's frag grenades, it can be 'cooked', although it has no pin. Wolf can toss it pretty far and pretty accurately.
Wolf's Homing Launcher homes in on targets automatically, and is very, very fast. It's superior to the Nikta in every way.
And of course, the Reflector.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Snake is a good soldier, but I think Wolf has him beat. Wolf simply has the stronger weaponry of the two.

 

[Zeruel21]

Snake has some pretty futuristic tech himself. Octocamo renders himself nearly invisible from long range, meaning Wolf would have to either carpet bomb the area or try to hunt him down in order to do any damage, and Snake would easily catch him off guard if he did that. His Solid Eye system has all the functions he would need to see Wolf coming from any distance, due to its thermal and night vision functions. Even if Wolf gets within range that the camo patterns wouldn't work, he has a stealth module that literally renders himself invisible to the naked eye.

Admittedly, Wolf's senses are a problem for Snake here, and it is entirely possible Wolf would find him. When he does, however, Snake has some gear from MGS4 that could rival Wolf's weaponry. A railgun, emotion modifying bullets and smoke grenades, high frequency vibrating sword...

Wolf's homing launcher is probably the biggest problem for Snake here. If he can't shoot it down (and he has shot down missiles before), he does have chaff grenades that would render it useless. All the rest of Wolf's weapons are either explosive or line of sight, and he can't see Snake very easily. The reflector isn't hard to beat, given that it can't deflect explosions. Snake just has to use grenades or mortars, both of which he is incredible at aiming.

Of course, Wolf could just hop in the Wolfen and use a Cluster Bomb on the whole area of combat or place a Fireburst Pod somewhere...

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

Why do people seem so convinced that the reflector can't block explosions? The way I see it, it's a futuristic super-shield, and shields are capable of protecting the user from an explosion (albeit not much, but the reflector is far superior).

 

[Zajice]

Yeah, Snake has more than just regular grenades. Chaff Grenades would probably be perfect for this situation since they scramble every electronic device in the area. They would most likely deactivate a bunch of Wolf's equipment. Namely the reflector, since I doubt it runs on rainbows.

LOL SNAKE WINZ!!! WOLF CAN'T REFLECT ANYTHING NAO!!1 OMGZZZ SNAKE IS TEH COOLELEEEST!!! HE IZ TEH KILLER, NOBODY CAN KILL HIM!!!1

People just keep saying that Wolf is invincible because of the armor and reflector. Wolf has a completely unarmored head y'know. If anybody can pull off a head shot, it's Snake, and Wolf can't reflect every bullet that comes his way. If Snake throws a chaff, he doesn't even get to try and use it. And Snake's weapons still aren't far off from Wolf's. Snake has some pretty awesome futuristic weapons too. Have you seen the rail gun? It shoots giant lasers. Bigger lasers than Wolf's gun, AND it can be used to snipe.

The snake people aren't even bringing any other arguments than "OMGZZZ SNAKE IS TEH COOELEEEST!!!! HE IZ TEH KILLER, NOBODY CAN KILL HIM!!!1"

ಠ___ಠ

 

[daisho]

Well I don't know anything about these grenades... but if they disable wolf's weapons then yeah... snake would win.

 

[Zeruel21]

Chaff grenades would not disable anything other than the missile's targeting. They work by releasing small particles of metal into the air, causing radar or heat waves to be reflected in odd directions and confusing the targeting system. Even though they may disable electronic devices in the MGS series, they would not realistically do that. However, Snake may have an EMP device that could not only shut down, but also permanently destroy electronic circuitry, rendering all technology in its radius useless. Then, his mechanically operated weapons would be the only ones to work.

 

[daisho]

So he would still have a Blaster and his grenades... Still if Wolf didn't have his homing missiles I'd say Snake would win.

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

The snake people aren't even bringing any other arguments than "OMGZZZ SNAKE IS TEH COOELEEEST!!!! HE IZ TEH KILLER, NOBODY CAN KILL HIM!!!1"

The Falco/Falcon fight was actually thought out, courteous, and accepted. This has turned into "OMGZZZ WOLF IS TEH COOELEEEST!!!! HE IZ TEH KILLER, NOBODY CAN KILL HIM!!!1"

Hate to break it to you but all his inhumane skill does not exist. He is merely a talented soldier in this battle. He can't take on towering robots.

But he did.

He can't take multiple sniper shots.

Two non-headshots, he can.

He feels pain when he gets shot (though all of wolf's weapons would probably kill him).

No one has said he doesn't feel pain. I disagree on the Wolf's weapons part, though.

Wolf beats him in weaponry and that is too big of a gap to overcome for snake.

It hasn't been that big a gap for at least 6 games.

Wolf has body armor, thick leather and the like that stops Snake's 9mm pretty easily. The Nikta has to be guided manually. Snake's frag grenades take longer to go of than Wolf's plasma grenades, and do less damage (Wolf's grenades take out heavy machinery in one blast). Wolf's senses are higher than humans; he'd be able to smell or hear Snake coming if he tried to sneak up on him.

Wolf's blaster has infinite ammo and shoots straight forever. It locks on to targets automatically while you fire it, and it can be fired pretty fast. It can be charged for extra killing power.
The energy grenade does massive damage to anyone remotely close to it, and can destroy a tank single-handedly. Like Snake's frag grenades, it can be 'cooked', although it has no pin. Wolf can toss it pretty far and pretty accurately.
Wolf's Homing Launcher homes in on targets automatically, and is very, very fast. It's superior to the Nikta in every way.
And of course, the Reflector.

>Insinuating leather can stop bullets
That's a royal ****ton of leather, bro. Even if it was made from actual bulletproof material, like Kevlar, at close range it can only so so much; bullets still cause pain, bullets still have force. Even most bulletproof materials don't stand up to the force behind sniper rifles.

By all means, picking Nikita was a bad move, considering a Stinger is just the same as Wolf's rocket.

Snake's grenade time does not mean anything; because he can just hold on to it and cook. The power? Sure, probably have us beat. But concussive force is concussive force, and should not be dismissed..

Wolf does in fact have animalistic senses. Snake could stand upwind and lessen the impact.

>Locks on
>Shoots straight forever
...So, sidestep? Shoot first? Disarm?

And the relector is a blessing and a curse. It's also not going to stop a C4 blast, for that matter. He puts it up, Snake fires bullets in between cover to keep him inside and cut his options.

 

[Zajice]

Chaff grenades would not disable anything other than the missile's targeting. They work by releasing small particles of metal into the air, causing radar or heat waves to be reflected in odd directions and confusing the targeting system. Even though they may disable electronic devices in the MGS series, they would not realistically do that. However, Snake may have an EMP device that could not only shut down, but also permanently destroy electronic circuitry, rendering all technology in its radius useless. Then, his mechanically operated weapons would be the only ones to work.

Well that's even better! A broken weapon is worse than a temporarily disabled one.

Aren't all of Wolf's guns pretty much run by electricity? If so, then Snake auto wins once they're shut off, since we've already established that there's no way Wolf could win in up close combat, and that's all he has left.

Well I guess he has the nades, but eh. You can't rely entirely on nades (unless you're Snake in Brawl).

Really, Blitz here just summed things up quite nicely.

 

[daisho]

Wow... I said snake can't take sniper shots because in all FPSs the people making the game have to make the player stronger or there will be death everywhere... so in pretty much every FPS known to man-kind you can take lots of bullets.

We are not counting in-game achievements... nobody cares what snake did in game. We just care about his weapons and his basic knowledge. That is the way this battle works.

Ummm Okay, which one, the Grenade or the Rocket Launcher? Maybe the blaster?


And probably none of wolf's weapons used electricity... but the blaster definitely does not.


It depends, are we counting Snake being able to disable any/all of wolf's weapons OR can Wolf actually use his weapons?

 

[payasofobia]

Now you are all bringing weapons that are outside the rule of 4 weapons.

If Wolf had every weapon he could have:

Nuke on a can ( that's how I call it, real name is fire-burst pod): Exactly wha it says on the tin. It is a very small timed explosive that, basically, is a nuke. And it blows up in 10 seconds. And Lylatians are fast enough to run away from the explosion.

A shoulder-machine-gun-cannon ( plasma cannon): Just imagine a machine gun that fires huge rail-gun esque plasma shots. And it has infinite ammo.

Demon sniper rifle: I am not making up its name. It is a very powerfull sniper rifle with more reach, strenght and firing speed than your average rifle. Strong enough to bring down a landmaster on one shot.

Proximity mines: they have the same radius as a plasma grenade and are as strong. Also, they don't activate when the user passes near them.

Ghost laucher: The rocket launcher on steroids. Stronger, never misses ( goes thru walls... why else would it be called 'ghost'?) and is basically an on-foot nova bomb. ( the arwing missiles)

He has his wolfen, capable of dodging a lot of shots and resisting blasts from extremelly strong weapons.

He also has his mothership, which can send him weapons and/or ammo whenever he wants to.

He has overshieds that make him much harder to kill and cover his whole body.

And the chaff grenades won't work because the enemy tried doing just that in one mission in assault ( the one in corneria), and the only thing it did was making it impossible to teleport arwings. They could still send them manually.

Oh, and healthpacks that completely restore his health of any and all injuries. And considering he can teleport huge amounts of these....

AND HE HAS A MOTHERF*CKING CLOAKING DEVICE. And a radar...

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

Nuke on a can ( that's how I call it, real name is fire-burst pod): Exactly wha it says on the tin. It is a very small timed explosive that, basically, is a nuke. And it blows up in 10 seconds. And Lylatians are fast enough to run away from the explosion.

A shoulder-machine.gun-cannon ( plasma cannon): Just imagine a machine gun that fires huge rail-gun esque plasma shots. And it has infinite ammo.

Demon sniper rifle: I am not making up its name. It is a very powerfull sniper rifle with more reach, strenght and firing speed than your average rifle. Strong enough to bring down a landmaster on one shot.

Well, I can't really argue against THIS. This really is superior. I have an issue with the Nuke in a can, and how any god**** thing can possibly outrun a blast of force, and the plasma cannon totally one-up anything Fortune had, which was a rail gun but not at that kind of firing speed.

That sniper rifle? Hot ****. Range speed, what have you, doesn't matter. But if it takes out tanks, then just god ****.

Snake may be the perfect solider, but I guess this is another case of skill not matching up against weaponry. I mean... an anti-tank sniper rifle.

Wow... I said snake can't take sniper shots because in all FPSs the people making the game have to make the player stronger or there will be death everywhere... so in pretty much every FPS known to man-kind you can take lots of bullets.

Call of Duty, bro. Also, MGO. There's a long line of FPSs where you can die to far less to a Sniper rifle. We're talking about a unique case because he's supposed to be the perfect soldier.

We are not counting in-game achievements... nobody cares what snake did in game. We just care about his weapons and his basic knowledge. That is the way this battle works.

If we don't care what Snake did in game, then we have no gauge as to what he can do, and if we don't know what he can do, we shouldn't even have this thread since we'd apply it to every other character in the game. Wolf won't win because he's never been featured outside his wolfen/arwing whatever and his experience as a pilot would be discounted because he's only a pilot in game. See what I mean?

 

[payasofobia]

Seriously, Wolf, or rather, Star Fox's weaponry, items and upgrades are hot ****. If we included their whole team then they could just nuke the battlefied with the mothership's missiles. Missiles that destroy giant city space stations and all the sorrounding places. Three times. Just to make sure everything is dead.

But we aren't, of course.

But still, Wolf's version of Snake's guns are vastly superior. Wolf still wins.

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

Why didn't this come up in the Falco vs Falcon fight, though? If they have this kind of weaponry, the entire Starfox crew wins everything forever. ._.;

 

[payasofobia]

To make it fair, I guess, because nobody has seen The Captain's whole arsenal.

And nobody brought the weaponry (I think) before, so they just stayed with the blasters.

But yeah, Falco would have destroyed The Captain if we had allowed him to use more of his weapons.

And Ike would have won if we took into account that scimithars are not good for defending, armor does nothing against a blow from a two-handed sword and that the Darksword is a slab of iron on a stick and much more heavier than Ike's sword, nullifying the superior sthrenght factor. And that it doesn't even exist canonicaly.

Also, I am inclined to say that:

Top Tier: Futuristic characters.
High tier: Super-humans and one-men army.
Middle tier: Dudes with realistic weapons and weak magic.
Low tier: Realistic dudes wth no weapons.
Bottom tier: Cute little critters that can't really do anything. ( except pikachu)

 

[Sieguest]

DAYUM!!!
I didin't know we could bring in the whole star fox weaponry!
But that would kinda just ruin every match up wouldn't it?
I mean wolf can take a freakin sniper shot and still live...(he has that MUCH HEALTH 5stars...and my favorite to use on SFA! )

But are we really allowing all that weaponry?

 

[payasofobia]

No, we are not. But still.

If snake has a sniper, wolf has the demon sniper.
If snake has the nikita or a RPG, wolf has the ghost laucher.
If snake has the octocamo or the cloacking device, wolf has another cloacking device.
If snake has claymores or c4s, wolf has proximity mines.
If snake has a....welll, you get the idea.

 

[Sieguest]

No, we are not. But still.

If snake has a sniper, wolf has the demon sniper.
If snake has the nikita or a RPG, wolf has the ghost laucher.
If snake has the octocamo or the cloacking device, wolf has another cloacking device.
If snake has claymores or c4s, wolf has proximity mines.
If snake has a....welll, you get the idea.

ooooh...
well...snakes only hope is up close...if that happens...
I'm leaning my odds toward wolf now...

 

[POKE40]

No, we are not. But still.

If snake has a sniper, wolf has the demon sniper.
If snake has the nikita or a RPG, wolf has the ghost laucher.
If snake has the octocamo or the cloacking device, wolf has another cloacking device.
If snake has claymores or c4s, wolf has proximity mines.
If snake has a....welll, you get the idea.

Snake's IQ > Wolf's IQ


but I see what you did thar

 

[payasofobia]

Just read this article:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailTheIQTest

IQ does not work that way.

And in this case, Wolf's weaponry>>>Snake's IQ.

So now I guess we can safely assume that Wolf wins this match because of his vastly superior weaponry, gadgets, armor and physiology.

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

I'd admit, as probably the biggest MGS supporter, Wolf wins this. If Snake could grab any intel on Wolf, he'd probably run until a better plan could be thought up.

 

[payasofobia]

BLITZ: regarding the convoluted mess this thread became: It was bound to happen because we are basically saying that wolf would defeat major badass, with support from badass scientist, and probably while piloting his badassmobile.

Wolf wins but Snake is still cooler.

Anyway, How about we pit a smash character against a character from a third-party franchise for every 10 matches?

I say we pit:

Toon Link, wielding the master sword: the sword of evil's bane vs Sanger Zombolt, piloting his dygenguard: the sword that cleaves evil.

Toon Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXwHeAIXbjY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KJKlipaU_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KmxNpybHI0

Sanger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgdVlFR2j1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZMvhkAC_yU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1uCdfK1tE

 

[Sieguest]

Wolf just sitting on his weapons...we all know that snake would...well err...I'd rather not go there if Wolf wasn't carrying around all the unlockable cheapo weapons of SFA!

You know what...this matchup was decided way too easily...so ya know what...I'm gonna be that ornery idiot that just doesn't know when to quit again and say...

Snake has the brains to maneuver against all of that....(he'll use his box to throw off the ghost launcher...worked in MGS...why not now..?) He could easily sneak suit his way close to wolf...make it hand to hand...and take victory..

 

[uhmuzing]

I'd say that it really all depends on whether Snake can approach Wolf or not...

 

[Zajice]

Geez, I leave for a couple hours and the thread turns to Wolf again.

The thing here is that a lot of weapons people are giving Snake are kind of gimped.

I think it should be

Wolf: Grenades
Snake: Grenades (all types to make up for Wolf's stronger type)

Wolf: Blaster
Snake: SOCOM or whatever main gun he wants to use. Snake should also get a knife for the blade on Wolf's gun.

Wolf: Heat seeking rockets
Snake: Stinger Missile (heat seeking and junk, now it's even)

Wolf: Reflector
Snake: Octocamo (The best thing that he can hide behind without giving him complete invisibility, which is kinda cheap)

Something like that anyway... It seems a lot more balanced. Two basic weapons, with Wolf's being better with infinite ammo. Diverse grenades vs strong grenades, heat seeking rockets vs heat seeking rockets, and each of them have a unique device that they can hide behind.

It's still who the better soldier is, and that's obviously Snake. Wolf just can't pass up Snake in terms of skill.

If snake has a sniper, wolf has the demon sniper.
If snake has the nikita or a RPG, wolf has the ghost laucher.
If snake has the octocamo or the cloacking device, wolf has another cloacking device.
If snake has claymores or c4s, wolf has proximity mines.
If snake has a....welll, you get the idea.

Wolf should get that user guided missile if Snake gets the nikita, since they're more similar, and a cloaking device is lame if he already has a reflector to hide behind. And why does wolf get the ghost launcher? That's the overpowered weapon you get if you're getting owned. Regular rockets are just fine. :/ Same for sniper rifle... just use the regular one rather than the overpowered one...

Why does Snake get regular weapons but Wolf gets to have the super awesome version of all of his weapons?

 

[Sieguest]

Geez, I leave for a couple hours and the thread turns to Wolf again.

The thing here is that a lot of weapons people are giving Snake are kind of gimped.

I think it should be

Wolf: Grenades
Snake: Grenades (all types to make up for Wolf's stronger type)

Wolf: Blaster
Snake: SOCOM or whatever main gun he wants to use.

Wold: His heat seeking rockets (I forget the name... haven't played in a while)
Snake: Stinger Missile (heat seeking and junk, now it's even)

Wolf: Reflector
Snake: Octocamo (The best thing that he can hide behind without giving him complete invisibility, which is kinda cheap)

Something like that anyway... It seems a lot more balanced. Two basic weapons, with Wolf's being better with infinite ammo. Diverse grenades vs strong grenades, heat seeking rockets vs heat seeking rockets, and each of them have a unique device that they can hide behind.

It's still who the better soldier is, and that's obviously Snake. Wolf just can't pass up Snake in terms of skill.

Okay...if it boils down to those weapons...then I'll definitely lean toward snake...I believe snake has better hand to hand...and he has the wits to find a way to get in close...
Basically I think that if snake can get in close he's has the strength and to take down wolf just like a he would some of his enemies in MGS....

But...I think...that we REALLY need to decide on what weapons will be allowed...-_-

 

[Zajice]

Well I updated the old post with more junk if you want to read it again.

And really, Snake has a fairly decent equivalent to each of Wolf's weapons, so it should just be a general rule that whatever weapon one of them has, the other has a similar version of it.

 

[Sieguest]

Geez, I leave for a couple hours and the thread turns to Wolf again.

The thing here is that a lot of weapons people are giving Snake are kind of gimped.

I think it should be

Wolf: Grenades
Snake: Grenades (all types to make up for Wolf's stronger type)

Wolf: Blaster
Snake: SOCOM or whatever main gun he wants to use. Snake should also get a knife for the blade on Wolf's gun.

Wolf: Heat seeking rockets
Snake: Stinger Missile (heat seeking and junk, now it's even)

Wolf: Reflector
Snake: Octocamo (The best thing that he can hide behind without giving him complete invisibility, which is kinda cheap)

Something like that anyway... It seems a lot more balanced. Two basic weapons, with Wolf's being better with infinite ammo. Diverse grenades vs strong grenades, heat seeking rockets vs heat seeking rockets, and each of them have a unique device that they can hide behind.

It's still who the better soldier is, and that's obviously Snake. Wolf just can't pass up Snake in terms of skill.




Wolf should get that user guided missile if Snake gets the nikita, since they're more similar, and a cloaking device is lame if he already has a reflector to hide behind. And why does wolf get the ghost launcher? That's the overpowered weapon you get if you're getting owned. Regular rockets are just fine. :/ Same for sniper rifle... just use the regular one rather than the overpowered one...

Why does Snake get regular weapons but Wolf gets to have the super awesome version of all of his weapons?

You mean the demon launcher...(it's uber cheap...my cousin made a comback when I was owning him...so I turned it off...
and you know I never really knew why they gave wolf the Mega overpowerd versions of stuff...
but your right...it is more fair with the weapons being as similar as possible...
With the weapons set like this snake can go tee for tee from long range with wolf...then when Snake gets a chance to move in close...then surely the close combat experience he's had...will kick in and he'll put the mutt in his place...

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Geez, I leave for a couple hours and the thread turns to Wolf again.

Can't be helped.

The thing here is that a lot of weapons people are giving Snake are kind of gimped.

If you gave Snake freaking Metal Gear REX, Wolf would still probably win with his Wolfen.
This shouldn't be made to be balanced. If they want to kill someone, they're going to bring their best weaponry.
The Demon Launcher/Sniper is so freaking broken that you don't even have access to it unless you're loosing. Badly. With handicaps on. And it only had 3 shots.

I think it should be

Wolf: Grenades
Snake: Grenades (all types to make up for Wolf's stronger type)

Why should Snake get a full range of weaponry just because Wolf outclasses him?

Wolf: Blaster
Snake: SOCOM or whatever main gun he wants to use. Snake should also get a knife for the blade on Wolf's gun.

Whatever gun he wants? If Snake can pick any gun, then why can't Wolf? If I were Wolf I'd screw the Blaster and pick up a Machine Gun. 999 shots, auto targeting, 10 lasers per second.
And there's no blade on Blasters. >_>
Play Starfox games.

Wolf: Heat seeking rockets
Snake: Stinger Missile (heat seeking and junk, now it's even)

Wolf doesn't have heat seeking rockets. The Homing Launcher just homes in on things. It could be an Aparoid (living machines) or Slippy. You lock onto it and it will follow it until it hits.

Wolf: Reflector
Snake: Octocamo (The best thing that he can hide behind without giving him complete invisibility, which is kinda cheap)

1. Wolf can still hear/smell Snake.
2. Homing Launchers may still automatically lock onto invisble targets, I need to check later but I'm pretty sure it works on people using the Cloaking Device.

Something like that anyway... It seems a lot more balanced. Two basic weapons, with Wolf's being better with infinite ammo. Diverse grenades vs strong grenades, heat seeking rockets vs heat seeking rockets, and each of them have a unique device that they can hide behind.

I still don't see why the weapons should be balanced.
If your going to balance them, why have them at all?

It's still who the better soldier is, and that's obviously Snake. Wolf just can't pass up Snake in terms of skill.

This ain't a war, it's a one-on-one. Wolf used to be an apparently high-ranking member of the Cornelian army before he defected. Now he's a paid mercenary and a crime lord. He kills people for money, and he's d*mn good as his job.

Wolf should get that user guided missile if Snake gets the nikita, since they're more similar, and a cloaking device is lame if he already has a reflector to hide behind.

Wolf doesn't get the cloaking device, we already outlined 4 weapons that everyone then proceeded to ignore.

And why does wolf get the ghost launcher? That's the overpowered weapon you get if you're getting owned.

1. If he did, it's because he could.
2. He doesn't, because it's not one of the 4 weapons we chose. Pay attention.

Why does Snake get regular weapons but Wolf gets to have the super awesome version of all of his weapons?

Because Wolf's normal weapons are super awesome versions of Snake's weapons.
This is what happens when you're futuristic.

Okay...if it boils down to those weapons...then I'll definitely lean toward snake...I believe snake has better hand to hand...and he has the wits to find a way to get in close...

How does he get in close?
He can't go invisible, and Wolf would be able to hear him coming anyway.

Basically I think that if snake can get in close he's has the strength and to take down wolf just like a he would some of his enemies in MGS....

If you meant:
"If Snake can get in close, he has the strength to take down Wolf just like he would (?) some of his enemies in Metal Gear Solid...."
(I couldn't really tell what you were saying, but I got the gist of it)
Let's look here.

First off, Wolf's spiked shoulderpads are going to present a problem for any of Snake's close grabs, namely his famous neck-snapping. Secondly, if Wolf manages to grab Snake (or even get close to him), he can easily mortally wound him with those spikes on his kneepads. So long as there's no point-blank weaponry going on here, Wolf could basically just fully tackle Snake (Wolf should be faster, after all) and slash as his face. Snake is then blinded and probably impaled by those spikes on Wolf's knees.

But...I think...that we REALLY need to decide on what weapons will be allowed...-_-

WE ALREADY DID

 

[Zajice]

If you gave Snake freaking Metal Gear REX, Wolf would still probably win with his Wolfen.
This shouldn't be made to be balanced. If they want to kill someone, they're going to bring their best weaponry.

Well the apparent weapons Snake has been given are nowhere near his best, so this is invalid.

The Demon Launcher/Sniper is so freaking broken that you don't even have access to it unless you're loosing. Badly. With handicaps on. And it only had 3 shots.

So you're saying Wolf has to be loosing badly to Snake for these? AHA!

Why should Snake get a full range of weaponry just because Wolf outclasses him?

He doesn't. It's just a couple different types of grenades. Smoke, flash, boom, whatever. Not like it's a huge thing.

Whatever gun he wants? If Snake can pick any gun, then why can't Wolf? If I were Wolf I'd screw the Blaster and pick up a Machine Gun. 999 shots, auto targeting, 10 lasers per second.

I meant just handguns. There are like 80 different ones throughout the series, and all are pretty similar. I'm not saying give Snake a machine gun or anything...

And there's no blade on Blasters. >_>
Play Starfox games.

Wolf's has a blade.

Wolf doesn't have heat seeking rockets. The Homing Launcher just homes in on things. It could be an Aparoid (living machines) or Slippy. You lock onto it and it will follow it until it hits.

Well not like it's a huge difference. It's still gonna follow Snake... And it won't follow until it hits. Those things can still miss.

1. Wolf can still hear/smell Snake.
2. Homing Launchers may still automatically lock onto invisble targets, I need to check later but I'm pretty sure it works on people using the Cloaking Device.

Snake doesn't have his cloaking device as far as I know... Unless we want to follow this rule you want to give Wolf about bringing best weaponry. Then sure why not. Wolf can fire randomly in all directions to attempt to hit Snake, and Snake can try and dodge. It's not a guaranteed hit.

I still don't see why the weapons should be balanced.
If your going to balance them, why have them at all?

Because every weapon has an equivalent. Giving the bad weapons to one, and then the good weapons to the other just cause you like them more is stupid.

This ain't a war, it's a one-on-one. Wolf used to be an apparently high-ranking member of the Cornelian army before he defected. Now he's a paid mercenary and a crime lord. He kills people for money, and he's d*mn good as his job.

Because Snake has NEVER taken anybody on one-on-one. Ever. Nope. Hasn't happened. And Snake is a better soldier. Genetically engineered super soldier etc etc blah blah cloned from bestsoldierever yadda yadda I said all that already. Snake does a pretty d*mn good job at killing people too, obviously.

Wolf doesn't get the cloaking device, we already outlined 4 weapons that everyone then proceeded to ignore.
1. If he did, it's because he could.
2. He doesn't, because it's not one of the 4 weapons we chose. Pay attention.

Snake got ripped off in his weapon selection. One could argue that Snake could bring anything he wants simply because he could.

Because Wolf's normal weapons are super awesome versions of Snake's weapons.
This is what happens when you're futuristic.

I meant why does wolf get the powerful version of the weapons in his game but Snake gets the crappy version of the weapons in his games.

If you meant:
"If Snake can get in close, he has the strength to take down Wolf just like he would (?) some of his enemies in Metal Gear Solid...."
(I couldn't really tell what you were saying, but I got the gist of it)
Let's look here.

Image.

First off, Wolf's spiked shoulderpads are going to present a problem for any of Snake's close grabs, namely his famous neck-snapping. Secondly, if Wolf manages to grab Snake (or even get close to him), he can easily mortally wound him with those spikes on his kneepads. So long as there's no point-blank weaponry going on here, Wolf could basically just fully tackle Snake (Wolf should be faster, after all) and slash as his face. Snake is then blinded and probably impaled by those spikes on Wolf's knees.

Most people here already agree that Snake is far superior at up close combat. Even with claws, Wolf isn't trained to instantly kill somebody in a swift motion like Snake is. Those spikes on his shoulders aren't particularly difficult to get around. Wolf grabbing Snake at all is pretty much useless, since Snake can easily pull some CQC stunt to put Wolf in a defenseless position.

WE ALREADY DID

Crap list.

 

[smashbot226]

This is an incredibly even fight in terms of every category there is. However, the above poster's claim on armor being an advantage is ridiculous: Snake is perfectly capable of working his way around Wolf's close combat skills and could bludgeon or break Wolf's limbs and skull if the fight gets into close quarters.

The only exception to this is physique: Wolf seems brawny in his own right, but Snake: he's, effectively, a super soldier, bred to fight war. After that, it's a coin flip. Here's why:

1. SKILL- Both are tactical geniuses in war; Snake is a master of CQC and Submission Combat, whereas Wolf has his claws, teeth, and agility. Adding firearms into the mix changes things up though. Even though Wolf has more advanced technology, Snake has more experience with his own selection of tools, as Wolf's true power comes from his Wolfen- which, clearly, is not in the fight. So Snake wins in terms of skill; he's the super soldier, while Wolf is more of a mercenary pilot.

ADVANTAGE: SNAKE

2. WEAPONS- Well, since things were evened out, I guess it'd be Wolf. Even with the bonuses given to Snake's weaponry, save grenades, technology wins the day against outdated weaponry. Even Octocamo is worthless: last I checked, Wolf is a canine, and is capable of detecting Snake by smell, sound, or EVEN sight- being a dog has its benefits.

ADVANTAGE: WOLF

3. PHYSIQUE- Given, Wolf is buff and tough, being a merc and all. But Snake... it's no exaggeration to say that Snake epitomizes physical perfection. He's the genetic super-soldier, born from the greatest soldier alive at the time. He managed to kill hundreds of enhanced, cybernetic monsters and thousands of trained soldiers, been through torturous conditions, and has saved the world at least four times. All while flaunting his headband and still in one piece. He's been hardened to the point of complete apathy. No question.

ADVANTAGE: SNAKE

4. ARMOR- Snake is a stealth soldier. He doesn't wear heavy armor, but has enough to block a few bullets. Wolf, however, has that freaky iron vest that adds spikes to the equation; not useful against the CQC master, but still useful to get him off balance. Even then, Snake's light armor can't really defend against Wolf's energy blasts, but Wolf can shrug off bullets with ease. Explosives are the deciding factor here, and since Snake has multiple types, like Smoke and EMP grenades, he could work around Wolf's technological advantage. Otherwise, Wolf has this.

ADVANTAGE: WOLF

All in all, its skill vs. weaponry. Most of the time, it's weaponry that wins it, but Snake is different from your everyday Private Joe Dude. He's technically the strongest soldier who ever lived. Wolf is just a rebel mercenary that works for money. Morals might keep Snake from killing Wolf, but the greedy canine will happily rip Snake's throat out in a heartbeat for some cash.

Still, combat is even at any range. This is too hard of a decision for me...

 

[Zajice]

Smashbot comes in and puts everything in a nice concise package. This matchup is so freakin' close it's not even funny... If Wolf were in modern day times, Snake would win hands down. It's just his weaponry that makes things difficult. I agree with skill vs weaponry thing. Normally, Wolf would win easily, but the fact that it's Snake he's fighting makes that completely worthless.

It's basically awesome weapons and mediocre skill (compared to Snake I mean) vs Mediocre guns and awesome skill. Effectively levels that area.

Snake wouldn't hesitate to kill Wolf, but in his time of death, he'd be sympathetic. Just as he always is towards the enemies he faces in combat. Wolf would kill Snake, laugh, and forget who he even was. :/


This match up always has me thinking back to the whole Sniper Wolf scene. Imagine Wolf in place of Sniper Wolf and play that in your head.

"People call mercenaries like us "Dogs of War." But you're different. You are a Wolf... You will die the proud wolf you are."

el oh el

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

This thread is wandering back into bull**** territory. In all fairness, Wolf's weaponry can really be that much of an advantage. However, I lol'd at Wolf being able to defend himself from SNake in CQC; insinuating leather jacket studs are actually practical instead of decorative is just silly.

Although on my drive home, I actually found that while Wolf has a greater advantage out in the open, if the terrain changed to an enclosed, tighter space, Snake would actually have greatly improved chances. But our weapons and scenario has been decided, and we can't help these things.

I'd say that if they were out in the open, at a port or something, a plain, something Final Destination-esque, Wolf's ability to use his weaponry wins him this. If it were to change to something like inside Arsenal Gear, or a cargo boat, Snake can probably win this. Either way, Wolf supporters should be glad that Wolf wins this particular matchup, and us FOXHOUNDs should be glad Snake would still be able to take him in the right circumstances, anyway. Like Paya said, at least Snake remains cooler.

 

[TwentyTwo]

Tbh, Snake can't lose in close up situation because as the solution to everything in the MGS universe is, is the solution here. His sneaking suit and his nanomachines. Aside from that, he's infected with FOXDIE, which would kill Wolf pretty fast up close.

Btw, I didn't read any rules on this thread whatsoever.

 

[Zajice]

So far I see whole match up as being even. And yes, terrain can easily shift the battle in Snake's favor. Open field battle scenario, I see it as close to even.

Are we allowed to have ties? :|

EDIT:
Foxdie is programmed only to kill certain people, TwentyTwo. Unless it's been altered specifically to kill Wolf, it does nothing.


...nanomachines can still do anything though.

Meh, I just completely changed this post.