TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[REL38]

kinda like how Machamp moves mountains in his dex entry?

anyways, it is because of the fact that he learns thunderpunch & wave naturally, along with him commonly seen packing Thunder in-game when you see him, thus having him have much more of a connection to electricity than the other pseudos...

Dex entries are the scientific findings on Pokémon in their Pokémon world

Obv, Machamp ain't gonna move a mountain or train, but it does document an already apparent ability

Anyways, Thunderpunch is lol
Thunder isn't naturally learned

Thunderwave asks the question, "how powerful is the electricity?"

Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe those antanaes have electricity than on the base of his cranium

 

[Nova9000]

I'm trying to figure out how mobile Salamance is. He has poor legs it seems and I'm not buying his tail being so effective. And where is this "armor" that people are speaking of? Looks like how he was built to me. And is Salamence is that tall because of his neck, then you have another Charizard with better claws and teeth but less mobility. I'm not seeing how he wins here...

 

[UncleSam]

I'm trying to figure out how mobile Salamance is. He has poor legs it seems and I'm not buying his tail being so effective. And where is this "armor" that people are speaking of? Looks like how he was built to me. And is Salamence is that tall because of his neck, then you have another Charizard with better claws and teeth but less mobility. I'm not seeing how he wins here...

Minor note:

Bulbapedia entry on Salamence:

Should we count Salamence as armored? I know that it probably won't help in the long run, but you may never know.

This.

Dex entries are the scientific findings on Pokémon in their Pokémon world

Obv, Machamp ain't gonna move a mountain or train, but it does document an already apparent ability

we've been over this, some of those entries are just don't make sense IRL, just because it could happen in-game doesn't mean the same thing here <_<
don't give me that season 2 crap.

Thunderwave asks the question, "how powerful is the electricity?"

strong enough and controllable to the point that it destroys the nervous system? and only the nervous system? that's total control and power management.

Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe those antanaes have electricity than on the base of his cranium

thiiiiiiiiiiis guuuuuuuuuy.

 

[Nova9000]

so he is armored?

 

[kitsuneko345]

so he is armored?

In a way yes, but because the armor in only confirmed to be in the stomach region and Salamence can't really fly, the armor is nearly useless. Only if Dragonite can hit from below Salamence (i.e. kicks) can the armor function properly, IMO.

Also, I support the theory that the antennas hold the electrical power.

[sarcasm]Thirdly, if we take pokemon entries as an absolute truth, then Dragonite can go around the world in 16 hours, therefore his top speed would be faster than 1500 mph. Its entries don't even state that he necessarily needs to fly to do that (the closest entry against that theory would be that he flies over oceans, but we have been able to make bridges and paths most around the world, so hey). That's right, I'm saying that Dragonite runs faster than the speed of sound and can therefore kill Salamence with one running punch. Crazy, huh?[/sarcasm]

 

[Nova9000]

OK. So I still stand by Dragonite having this win.

Spoiler

excluding sarcasm

I guess I'll wait for REL or Werebear for a rebuttal.

 

[REL38]

This.

we've been over this, some of those entries are just don't make sense IRL, just because it could happen in-game doesn't mean the same thing here <_<
don't give me that season 2 crap.

Oh you know I didn't mean take everything literally

But I digress

Anyways, I don't see Salamance doing much
He's got no flight and relies souly on physical attacks aside from flames

Dragonite is done without electricity
With it, he's got a fairer chance

 

[Nova9000]

Dragonite is done without electricity
With it, he's got a fairer chance

Elaborate please.

 

[Supermik884]

So lets see :

Dragonite has flying ability thats give him distance, electric attack thats come out from his anthena, but a good question would be : can he do long ranged attack like a Thunderbolt? and he has his body thats look good for a powerfull body slam. His arms are too short to be really good. And he have some good speed because of his flying ability.

I don't think Salamence is able to fly but more to glide, don't know if it can be usefull or not. He has fire attack that is not really usefull and of course his body. It's good for some body slam and head smash because of his long neck and it give him a good range for biting Dragonite. And of course he has is tail. Not sure for that but I think he can do some good quick dodge because of his four legs.

I'm not sure who to chosse but I think Salamence win because of his good physical attack and bulk and if Dragonite don't have long ranged electric attack, otherwise Dragonite own him. Thats my opinion of course.

 

[Count Typo]

Question: Are we only allowed to use the character variables given by Joe? If not, Salamence has MANY options at his disposal. His belly armor can be extended to the rest of his body, because as a Shelgon he learns "Iron Defense", which can "harden its body's surface like iron, sharpening its Defense". He can also attack with electrified fangs (Thunder Fang). At birth, he can fire enormous volumes of water from his mouth (Hydro Pump), attack with shock waves (Dragon Rage), and summon tornadoes to defend with (Twister).

Leaving the purely natural realm and entering a realm where these beasts can be taught moves by humans, Salamence can learn to attack with mud to blind his foe (Mud Slap), large boulders (Rock Tomb and Rock Slide) and sharpened stones (Stone Edge), and summon comets from the sky (Draco Meteor).

 

[IsmaR]

So lets see :

Dragonite has flying ability thats give him distance, electric attack thats come out from his anthena, but a good question would be : can he do long ranged attack like a Thunderbolt? and he has his body thats look good for a powerfull body slam. His arms are too short to be really good. And he have some good speed because of his flying ability.

I don't think Salamence is able to fly but more to glide, don't know if it can be usefull or not. He has fire attack that is not really usefull and of course his body. It's good for some body slam and head smash because of his long neck and it give him a good range for biting Dragonite. And of course he has is tail. Not sure for that but I think he can do some good quick dodge because of his four legs.

I'm not sure who to chosse but I think Salamence win because of his good physical attack and bulk and if Dragonite don't have long ranged electric attack, otherwise Dragonite own him. Thats my opinion of course.

Dragonite's(nor Salamence's, apparently) wings wouldn't be strong enough to lift them off the ground or even glide(as they have no real means of getting that high). Realistically, Pokemon moves/abilities wouldn't be plausible(yes they have some limited use, but obviously Dragonite can't call down meteors or lightning bolts to attack). Reading the last few pages, Dnite's electricity is limited to contact shock, he can't shoot lightning ala Thunderbolt. Stats and such also don't come into play, their power/strength is based off of other things(size, comparing them to real animals, giving them logical explanations, etc.)

Question: Are we only allowed to use the character variables given by Joe? If not, Salamence has MANY options at his disposal. His belly armor can be extended to the rest of his body, because as a Shelgon he learns "Iron Defense", which can "harden its body's surface like iron, sharpening its Defense". He can also attack with electrified fangs (Thunder Fang). At birth, he can fire enormous volumes of water from his mouth (Hydro Pump), attack with shock waves (Dragon Rage), and summon tornadoes to defend with (Twister).

Leaving the purely natural realm and entering a realm where these beasts can be taught moves by humans, Salamence can learn to attack with mud to blind his foe (Mud Slap), large boulders (Rock Tomb and Rock Slide) and sharpened stones (Stone Edge), and summon comets from the sky (Draco Meteor).

Read the above, and the first page, bro. This would be a realistic fight, no Pokemon moves(unrealistic ones, obviously they could still tackle/bite/etc. and do the abilties JOE listed, which could be explained). By in-game standards, Salamence'd obviously have the advantage.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Salamance has more mobility, Dragonite is to blubbery and would have a hard time moving arround. I don't think he could fly fast or high with those wings if at all. As for special abilities Fire from affar > bio electricity. Dragonite couldn't touch Salamance with that bulgy thing you call a body.

Salamance wins even though Dragonite is way cooler.

 

[UncleSam]

Salamance has more mobility, Dragonite is to blubbery and would have a hard time moving arround. I don't think he could fly fast or high with those wings if at all. As for special abilities Fire from affar > bio electricity. Dragonite couldn't touch Salamance with that bulgy thing you call a body.

Salamance wins even though Dragonite is way cooler.

What are you talking about Salamence is a square with features. He wouldn't be able to fly because his wings aren't built for that, adding dead weight to Salamence. I don't even know how to explain his hip structure but look for yourself:

His legs don't go forward they go out from his corners. How does that equate to forward motion well at all? at best he'd be like krabby.

As for Dragonite, his tail acts like a counter-balance keeping him up like a kangaroo, and at least he has legs with a decent hip for movement:

Of course he can't fly with those wings what did you expect? but at least they aren't as much of a nuisance as Salmence's.
Next point Electricity kills 1 hit, Fire burns flesh, doesn't melt it. If dragonite is smart (which he is) He can maneuver to Salamence and get the least burns possible. Also once Dragonite gets out of Mence's FOV Salamence will have a tough time re-positioning himself because of his boxxy'ness.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Dragonite's overall weight would probably collapse on him, so Salamance should win by default.

 

[UncleSam]

his height:weight ratio is fine.
maybe not for a person, but Dragonite isn't a person is he?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Well what if he fell by like a tail sweep or something, would that matter in the slightest?

 

[UncleSam]

Well what if he fell by like a tail sweep or something, would that matter in the slightest?

Rule 24.

so uh, Marthage told me to use 30% of dragonite's weight for electricity (I'm not making the limit here ppl so don't complain) and got 59,538,761.3 KJ of energy, somebody convert that into w/s like I did for pikachu plz.

no it won't, right before contact the shock will transfer causing muscle contraction which will stiffen the tail stopping it.

come to think of it same **** goes down with pikachu as well.
well more proof he beats lucario and diddy.
yeah that's right, I didn't forget.

I NEVER FORGET

Even if it hits the body, Dragonite won't get knocked back because his own tail is a counter-balance and will go in for the kill.

 

[Nova9000]

US to the rescue...and where is JOE! now?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

So he has an electric force feild... then why doesn't the match just end now?

 

[Nova9000]

Because JOE! isn't here. And I don't think a force field is whay US is implying.

 

[UncleSam]

I never implied force-field >_>
that doesn't change the fact that Dragonite wins though so...

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

You can't even hit him because of an Electric current surrounding the body, that's what I call a force-field.

 

[UncleSam]

wtf happened to my pics a few posts back?

 

[kitsuneko345]

so uh, Marthage told me to use 30% of dragonite's weight for electricity (I'm not making the limit here ppl so don't complain) and got 59,538,761.3 KJ of energy, somebody convert that into w/s like I did for pikachu plz.

Do you mean watt-seconds or watts per second? I'm asking because there is a main difference between the two. I got 4,594.04022 Watt-seconds for the energy, btw. Not sure if it helps that much.

To me, I believe that although Dragonite might have less speed all around, Salamence would have a tougher time turning around with his body shape. Still, if we look at Salamence's tail, we see it's about (idk) 1.25x as long I think. That tail has some serious knocking ability is all I'm saying.

(and yes, I'm being a bit biased here, but I don't want to rule out what most believe is the weaker one yet)

 

[UncleSam]

Do you mean watt-seconds or watts per second? I'm asking because there is a main difference between the two. I got 4,594.04022 Watt-seconds for the energy, btw. Not sure if it helps that much.

I believe it was watts per second. remember that number is in kilojoules not joules

To me, I believe that although Dragonite might have less speed all around, Salamence would have a tougher time turning around with his body shape. Still, if we look at Salamence's tail, we see it's about (idk) 1.25x as long I think. That tail has some serious knocking ability is all I'm saying.

(and yes, I'm being a bit biased here, but I don't want to rule out what most believe is the weaker one yet)

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11115686&postcount=18560

 

[kitsuneko345]

I believe it was watts per second. remember that number is in kilojoules not joules

I hope it isn't, because of this little article on the online encyclopedia:

Confusion of watts, watt-hours, and watts per hour:

Power and energy are frequently confused. Power is the rate at which energy is generated and consumed.

For example, when a light bulb with a power rating of 100W is turned on for one hour, the energy used is 100 watt-hours (W·h), 0.1 kilowatt-hour, or 360 kJ. This same amount of energy would light a 40-watt bulb for 2.5 hours, or a 50-watt bulb for 2 hours. A power station would be rated in multiples of watts, but its annual energy sales would be in multiples of watt-hours. A kilowatt-hour is the amount of energy equivalent to a steady power of 1 kilowatt running for 1 hour, or 3.6 MJ.

Terms such as watts per hour are often misused.[12] Watts per hour properly refers to the change of power per hour. Watts per hour (W/h) might be useful to characterize the ramp-up behavior of power plants. For example, a power plant that reaches a power output of 1 MW from 0 MW in 15 minutes has a ramp-up rate of 4 MW/h. Hydroelectric power plants have a very high ramp-up rate, which makes them particularly useful in peak load and emergency situations.

Major energy production or consumption is often expressed as terawatt-hours for a given period that is often a calendar year or financial year. One terawatt-hour is equal to a sustained power of approximately 114 megawatts for a period of one year.

I can highly doubt that we really can measure the change in power without including some other factors.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11115686&postcount=18560

So what you are saying is that the velocity of the tail will go from some high number to near 0 in less than a second? And who says that it has to be directed to the head? Why not the legs for example?

Always appearing in the middle of the stage as a sign with a box mounted on the handle, this item will only appear when there is an even amount of characters on stage. When one character tries to grab the item, they will instead move towards the background and be out of the match. If no one else decides to grab this item, then that background character will automatically be given last in the standings. That background character can still move around the stage with an added bonus: the sign will move with that character in the foreground. Once someone else has grabbed the item intentionally or not (or automatically in the case of there only be two characters fighting during this time), the stage will fade to black.

Suddenly, the two characters who grabbed the item are playing one of the co-op modes in Brawl at random. It can be any of the extras from a round of Subspace Emissary to a Cruel Multi-Man Brawl. Once those characters are done with their objective (or get KOed but more on that later), the other opponents if any are left will compete in the same event for them to complete in random pairs of two. There are a few major differences within these modes:

*In All-Star, Subspace, or Boss Battle modes, the players will only have to go through one stage before returning back to the original arena. All-Star and Boss Battle modes will require the players to defeat the opponent(s) while Subspace has the chance of clearing one part of the many levels in that mode.

*Target Test adds a timer of 30 seconds instead of the usual record tracker. Once all of the targets have been destroyed, they will all reappear in the same position if the timer has not counted down to zero. Once there is no time left of the clock, the characters will be forced to stop the match.

*Only Cruel and Endless Brawl are used with this mode, as this mode will also have the 30 second timer. Once the timer is done or the players have been KO'ed, the match will end.

*Home Run Contest is different from the others depending on how many players are fighting. If there are two groups or more, then the mode will act like the regular Co-op match. If there is only one group participating, then one character will keep hold of the bat during one session of the contest while the other will attack the sandbag for the ten seconds given until the bat holder will Use their Smash attack.​

In brawls with only two players participating, the player that has given the most in a certain category will win the match. In fights with two or more groups competing, only the top group that has given the most in that certain category (or top 3 groups in CTF mode) will win the match. The categories are:

*dealing the most damage (in Boss battles, All-star mode, certain Subspace arenas, or Multi-man Brawl)

*getting to the door/finish aura first (other certain Subspace areas)

*destroying the most targets (Target Smash)

*getting the farthest distance with the sandbag (Home Run Contest with multiple groups)

*dealing the most damage without letting the other player get the home run or letting the Sandbag off the ascended platform (one group HRC)​

So what happens when someone wins? Well, their opponents will now become stuck in their original place without being able to move around. The winner(s) can now beat up the frozen players to their heart's content with all of the damage and none of the knockback. Once five seconds of that time is up, the frozen players can finally move around with an invincibility of one second to compensate for the ridiculous amount of damage they have possibly be given.

 

[UncleSam]

I hope it isn't, because of this little article on the online encyclopedia:



I can highly doubt that we really can measure the change in power without including some other factors.

you're reading watts per hour. not watts per second.
to make a comparison: you used 100 watts over the course of 1 hour.
in w/s you used 100 watts over the course of 1 second. you also need to factor in amperes and you have a much more intense shock.

So what you are saying is that the velocity of the tail will go from some high number to near 0 in less than a second? And who says that it has to be directed to the head? Why not the legs for example?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11146670&postcount=18577

 

[Nova9000]

So do we all agree that Dragonite wins this?

 

[UltiMario]

If you go by the actual Pokemon games as any base, Dragonite's losing this.

Dragonite's electrical powers are very weak, and Salamence doesn't really take an electrical hit very hard, or at all if he's airborne (even if he can't fly, those wings would still give him a pretty good jump, and a slower drop, if he's getting close the ground, he just pushes off that big lard of a dragon and DNite can't shock him seeing as Mence is too far aya). Dragonite is pretty much left with trying to get in brute force, and Salamence absolutely destroys Dragonite in this department, he's much faster, a little bit stronger, and would tear Dragonite to shreds with his claws and teeth, and Dragonite is slow, and it'd be hard to aim for Mence while around his large body, especially if Mence chose the right spots.

I say Mence wins due to having sheer speed and power over Dragonite, and pretty much having easy ways to get around Dragonite's "advantages."

 

[Skadorski]

So do we all agree that Dragonite wins this?

I do. Dragonite's electricity just destroys Salamence.

 

[IsmaR]

If you go by the actual Pokemon games as any base, Dragonite's losing this.

Dragonite's electrical powers are very weak, and Salamence doesn't really take an electrical hit very hard, or at all if he's airborne (even if he can't fly, those wings would still give him a pretty good jump, and a slower drop, if he's getting close the ground, he just pushes off that big lard of a dragon and DNite can't shock him seeing as Mence is too far aya). Dragonite is pretty much left with trying to get in brute force, and Salamence absolutely destroys Dragonite in this department, he's much faster, a little bit stronger, and would tear Dragonite to shreds with his claws and teeth, and Dragonite is slow, and it'd be hard to aim for Mence while around his large body, especially if Mence chose the right spots.

I say Mence wins due to having sheer speed and power over Dragonite, and pretty much having easy ways to get around Dragonite's "advantages."

Read the last couple of pages/responses by me, read the first post, and have a nice day.

Edit: Also, I'm assuming everybody is picturing the stereotypical 't-rex arm sized wings on a fatass dragon' version of Dragonite. Never really thought it was limited to one representation, but I was picturing the one from the 1st movie, or at least one ala Silver's sprite.

 

[kitsuneko345]

So do we all agree that Dragonite wins this?

As much as I would like to see Salamence win this, I think Dragonite is probably too much for it to bite on. Besides, I would improvise on how the wings would make good weapons, and that's a recipe for disaster.

I will say that this will not be completely lopsided though, so my guess is... 673-337?


*Acts like a counter move at the beginning, Starts near instantaneously and ends at around a half second later.
*Once hit with an attack, Luxord will turn into a card and go towards the opponent.
*Attacker can hit Luxord again, but the moves will deal no damage to Luxord .
* Luxord will take out three cards around the same size and surround himself in them before he gets to the opponent
*Takes around a 1/4 of a trip to get one card.
*Once Luxord is next to the opponent, tap a direction with the control stick and Luxord’s card will be in that position while the rest will surround the opponent.
*Once all of the card are surrounding the attacker, Luxord can move the cards clockwise or counterclockwise by moving right and left respectively.
*During this time, the opponent can hit any of the cards with any attack that uses the control stick and one of four outcomes will happen.
**If the opponent hits Luxord, Luxord will gain the damage of all of the attacks deal to him during the move (So if two Falcon Punches had hit him, he gets 54%) but there is no knockback.
**If the opponent hits an explosion card (will start out on the opposite side of the Luxord card), They will get the damage of all the moves and no knockback.
**If they hit the self-healing, they will be healed of all the damage that they had given to Luxord durign this move.
**If they hit the Luxord-healer, Luxord will be healed of all the damage that they had given to Luxord.
*Pressing up will still make the card move in the clocked direction they’re all in, but tapping a second direction during that time will make Luxord switch himself with that taped direction’s card which will be indicated by those cards spinning clockwise once (if the second tapped direction is pointing towards himself, another random card will spin but the switch will not be made)
*Likewise, pressing down then tapping in a second direction (can be the same direction) will make the explosion card switch with the tapped direction’s card with the same effects.
*Once the opponent hits a card, the other three will spread out in the direction they were pointing at for a Battlefield’s platform’s length, then Luxord appears if he was one of the cards that wasn’t hit.
*To cancel the move, Luxord can hit the attack button at anytime, but will be dealt with all of the damage and half of the knockback.

 

[Megatron1]

Salamence is faster and stronger then Dragonite and can learn an ice move. What will Dragonite do? It'll be dead by then. As for the Falco vs Falcon, irl, Falco wins because he's hired more often to fight and has a laser gun. He's also better in Brawl

 

[IsmaR]

Salamence is faster and stronger then Dragonite and can learn an ice move. What will Dragonite do?

Read the first post outlining how in game moves would be unrealistic and find out!

It'll be dead by then.

Haban Berry/Focus Sash/Bulky set, bro.

As for the Falco vs Falcon, irl, Falco wins because he's hired more often to fight and has a laser gun. He's also better in Brawl

Though usually not the time to bring this up, Falcon is a bounty hunter as opposed to a mercenary. Falco took 7 years off doing pretty much nothing in StarFox, while Falcon spends his free time racing.

Also Brawl isn't realistic. How in the hell can Luigi be better than Yoshi?

 

[Count Typo]

Off topic but...

Haban Berry/Focus Sash/Bulky set, bro.

Nope. Not even close. Salamence's max speed WITHOUT a +Speed nature is 299, while Dragonite's highest possible speed is 284. Dragonite would need a Choice Scarf to have any chance, but then it gives up its Haban Berry/Focus Sash.

Assuming Salamence is running a Modest nature with 252 Sp. Attack EVs...

Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Dragonite: 82.9% - 98.4%
Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 252 SPd Careful Dragonite w/Haban Berry: 41.5% - 49.2% (42% - 49.7% second turn)

Assuming Salamence is running a Modest nature with 252 Sp. Attack EVs and a Life Orb...

Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Dragonite: 108.8% - 128%
Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 252 SPd Careful Dragonite w/Haban Berry: 54.4% - 64% (54.4% - 64.2% second turn)

Assuming Salamence is running a Modest nature with 252 Sp. Attack EVs and a Choice Specs...

Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 252 SPd Careful Dragonite: 124.9% - 147.7%
Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 252 SPd Careful Dragonite w/Haban Berry: 62.4% - 73.8% (62.2% - 73.6% second turn)

http://www.smogon.com/calc/

 

[Nova9000]

Salamence is faster and stronger then Dragonite and can learn an ice move. What will Dragonite do? It'll be dead by then. As for the Falco vs Falcon, irl, Falco wins because he's hired more often to fight and has a laser gun. He's also better in Brawl

Read the OP plz. And Falco v. Falcon was years ago.

 

[IsmaR]

Or...y'know...Nite could use ExtremeSpeed to finish it off.

 

[Skadorski]

i thought it was "You are so dumb, you are really dumb, for real"?

 

[UncleSam]

stuff.

lolwut modest?
try Naive or Jolly plz, or at least Adamant.

plus in IRL salamence cant summon huge meteors from they sky.

 

[IsmaR]

Butt out of the argument, Sam. Or at least go back to lurking until JOE stops spamming links errywhere.