TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Nova9000]

What proof?
She held it the "right" way?
There is absolutely no explaination in any way, shape or form that explains a skill she never uses until the end to help Link.
None.

Any training is mere assumption.

EDIT: Using tge Final Smash doesn't show how she actually used it in TP
Zelda is never shown to use a bow/arrow as a kid in TP.


The point being, as it should be, is that if an ability is shown by a character then they get it.

This thread doesn't base a character's abilities on how often or when they use what they have.
It's about assessing what they have been shown to have and whether or not it is realistic.

The point of the thread is not to find if "this or that" is a game/plot mechanic.
It's taking what they've done and applying RL.


Zelda has archer abilities.
White have poison fume.
Mario throws hammers.
Lucario can Judo.
Peach has bombs.

I think WW Zelda also used arrows.
Anyway, are you eluding to Zelda knowing how to shoot due to the triforce or that she can't shoot due to her physique? I got answers to both so try me .

And here we go with training. Wanna know how Zelda got so great with arrows?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE&feature=related
Common sense.

If we go by your theory, then yes whites have that ability. However, I think you have it mixed up in a sense. Judging by the size and effect of the Pikmin already, it wouldn't be the type of gas that you saw because they wouldn't keep the poison in their mouths. It would most likely be in their stomach. That way, when consumed, they rupture the cell walls and the poison spews out. Also know that as a gas it would dissipate in the air so it still isn't as effective as you make it to be. A fraction of the poison would be exhaled so it's not going to be potent like it being consumed. If you look at the vid, if anything it looks like the pikmin burped rather than exhaled poison. Their fragile build would make then vulnerable to a OHKO more often than not. Keeping in mind Oli only gets 2, it's rather irrelevant. White pikmin having that ability is as bad as Mario having his cape; he could have it, but in RL it doesn't mean anything.

And all that is entertaining if JOE! decides to even consider them having that ability.
And I want to see the answers you have for Marthage.

 

[UncleSam]

http://pikmin.wikia.com/wiki/Pikmin_family
Take a look at the individual pikmin pictures...

no mouths....
and the blues have gills...
also look at the electrocution picture...
no jaw bones nor sign of trachea of any kind.... so how can they expel it from the "mouth" or even have a mouth?
also hinted that respiration occurs through the mouth, but with as simple of a circulatory system hinted at by the biology section I doubt it's efficient, there aren't.

Also look at how the pikmin are proportioned, they are top heavy, bad mobility, how can they climb something that moves IRL whenver they're top heavy like that?

well, I just thought of something (which will lead like nowhere, but will shed more light)
you don't need a jaw to have a mouth, it's just that the mouth will be open all the time since it can't retract (think of worms)
but since you can't see a big gaping mouth anywhere on pikmin provides further proof.

 

[adumbrodeus]

What proof?
She held it the "right" way?
There is absolutely no explaination in any way, shape or form that explains a skill she never uses until the end to help Link.
None.

Any training is mere assumption.

But you missed the fundamental point, we don't have to assume training, because it's irrelevant.


Her reasons for having the ability are irrelevant, because we are not focusing a lense on the characters' BACKSTORIES, we're discussing their ABILITIES AND ATTRIBUTES. If the abilities and attributes are in and of themselves explainable realistically, then the character has access to them. There's nothing unrealistic about firing arrows.



Be forewarned, if we accept this line of reasoning, then I will systematically reduce every character on this thread to death by asphyxiation, match-up by match-up. Every single character has at least one key unrealistic point in their backstory, without which we must reject their entire backstory. Therefore, we will have no proof they are capable of doing anything, including any basic life processes, all matches will be a draw because everyone will die at the same time.


Period.



No, characters do not unlearn realistic abilities because they aquired them through unrealistic means, the realism of the ability is all that is needed.

 

[Sieguest]

Now what did I tell you about pikmin?
I know you are talking about the pikmin mouths but they don't need them.

that's why they don't have them.

oh crap I've said too much...

Yah, yah, Photosynthesis and such, but still, do they have an adequate system of circulation to distribute the nutrients for this throughout the body...

Basically
1. Gain energy through photosynthesis
2. They would have to have plant cells because animal cells require oxygen in order to perform properly
3. If this is true, then they couldn't take in the supplements from nectar seeing as how cell walls prevent the diffusion of such. Basically leaving the question why do they even have a digestive system if it is nigh useless? Because they have no roots there is no way for any external energy to enter into their body other than photosynthesis, and as you know, it takes more than just photosynthesis to grow and survive in a plant.

They can't take in water because
1. Their biology states that when ever water droplets or other things obstruct their flowers that they suffocate and they don't have roots, preventing any entrance of water.

The only animal-like qualities in the Pikmin are the fact that they have a skeletal system and senses from what I gather. As such, they internally aren't able to sustain themselves with the energy that an animal uses in a day, and the limited means of gathering energy of the pikmin

 

[JOE!]

there is a limit to how real we get here.

as adum said, we need to draw lines for stuff like this. All training is assumed, unless it is somethign blatant (for example, Roy in FE has a bow, but really, really sucks with it or such, which could affect his accuracy/deadliness with the weapon).

if we realllly want to: No character is ever seen pooping. Therefor they have a backed up digestive system and poison themselves from holding in waste. Their kidneys also fail and they die.

 

[IsmaR]

inb4Samushasabuiltintoilet

 

[adumbrodeus]

as adum said, we need to draw lines for stuff like this. All training is assumed, unless it is somethign blatant (for example, Roy in FE has a bow, but really, really sucks with it or such, which could affect his accuracy/deadliness with the weapon).

if we realllly want to: No character is ever seen pooping. Therefor they have a backed up digestive system and poison themselves from holding in waste. Their kidneys also fail and they die.

Not so much a limit as the fact that this thread itself's concern is not with the character's backstory and how realistic that is (here's a hint, not realistic at all universally, something about being fiction), we're concerned with how realistic their abilities and attributes are, and the source is part of the backstory.



So, it's not so much a matter of limits as scope. There should be no limit to how realistic we get as long as it's within the scope of what's being discussed, namely the abilities and attributes.

 

[JOE!]

yes, but my example was counting things such as "they are never seen pooping, so they die from kidney failure" etc.

we can delve into background for some stuff, for one I am a tad iffy on ZSS getting super-athleticism from Chozo infusions after birth. Sure, she could be super athletic, but the only explanation is something that shouldnt be possible

 

[adumbrodeus]

yes, but my example was counting things such as "they are never seen pooping, so they die from kidney failure" etc.

we can delve into background for some stuff, for one I am a tad iffy on ZSS getting super-athleticism from Chozo infusions after birth. Sure, she could be super athletic, but the only explanation is something that shouldnt be possible

That's the thing, she doesn't get super-athletism, because that's not humanly possible.


She gets what is humanly possible and the chozo blood functions in a manner that would be no different from if her backstory was "she trained a lot".


Again, the backstory SHOULD function as a black box, the contents are irrelevant, what matters is what they output.


Otherwise, we get into messy problems like, you know, being unable to breath.


Honestly, the pooping is a related issue, since it's not a shown ability that has an unrealistic backstory.

 

[JOE!]

eh, lets move on.

So at the moment, Zelda dominates Marth due to the arrow?

 

[Nova9000]

Unless Kaka-REL has another opinion Zelda wins.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

you guys gave a sword to Zelda over a vague hint that she was trained, but you couldn't let Marth dodge an arrow even if he can do it in the game.

 

[adumbrodeus]

eh, lets move on.

So at the moment, Zelda dominates Marth due to the arrow?

Yes, Marth has barely any defense, Zelda's arrows are made to pierce armor up to platemail, Zelda has a longbow, Zelda has a good number of arrows.


Basically, every factor is the opposite of the Pit vs. Roy situation, so Zelda wins in a landslide.

you guys gave a sword to Zelda over a vague hint that she was trained, but you couldn't let Marth dodge an arrow even if he can do it in the game.

Because having sword training is realistic, people can have that. Being able to reliably dodge arrows is not (dependent on the range of course).


You need to understand the basic idea behind the thread, pitting characters against each other with a realistic lense applied to their abilities and attributes.



And it wasn't vague, we discussed this before, the evidence is quite significant.

 

[Nova9000]

you guys gave a sword to Zelda over a vague hint that she was trained, but you couldn't let Marth dodge an arrow even if he can do it in the game.

Zelda isn't winning because of her sword. Her skills with the bow and arrow are what give her the victory.

You don't dodge arrows like that, no matter how good your reflexes are.

Look up what arrows do and you'll see how arrows make this a one-sided MU.

 

[JOE!]

indeed, new Mu soon

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

fine whatever

 

[JOE!]

fine whatever

what do you mean whatever?

Lets do the math here, say an arrow travels at a speed of 100 feet per second, and will take about 1 second to hit you.

you have .2 seconds to realize and arrow is coming, another .2 to tell your body what to do, .5 to get the muscles working, then another .5 to actually perform the action with presicion to block or dodge the arrow.

chances are the arrow will hit you before you are done processing you are going to be hit by an arrow to do anythign about it. therefor it is highly, highly unlikley you can reliably dodge arrows

 

[UncleSam]

Yah, yah, Photosynthesis and such, but still, do they have an adequate system of circulation to distribute the nutrients for this throughout the body...

Basically
1. Gain energy through photosynthesis
2. They would have to have plant cells because animal cells require oxygen in order to perform properly
3. If this is true, then they couldn't take in the supplements from nectar seeing as how cell walls prevent the diffusion of such. Basically leaving the question why do they even have a digestive system if it is nigh useless? Because they have no roots there is no way for any external energy to enter into their body other than photosynthesis, and as you know, it takes more than just photosynthesis to grow and survive in a plant.

They can't take in water because
1. Their biology states that when ever water droplets or other things obstruct their flowers that they suffocate and they don't have roots, preventing any entrance of water.

The only animal-like qualities in the Pikmin are the fact that they have a skeletal system and senses from what I gather. As such, they internally aren't able to sustain themselves with the energy that an animal uses in a day, and the limited means of gathering energy of the pikmin

That's because you're thinking way to hard on the matter.
millions of years ago when evolution was lazy species absorbed nutrients.

... like 40

 

[JOE!]

anywho, this MU had to happen at one point, seeing as I belive they are the last two critically fail characters

 

[UncleSam]

messed up penguin vs. something that can't exits RL because he's a kirby?
I think we have our answer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda isn't winning because of her sword. Her skills with the bow and arrow are what give her the victory.

You don't dodge arrows like that, no matter how good your reflexes are.

Look up what arrows do and you'll see how arrows make this a one-sided MU.

Zelda skilled with the bow? Dude she always missed! O.o

Marth should be able to dodge, and kill Zelda with his long *** sword.

About DDD vs Meta, what can both do realistically? DDD probably cannot lift his hammer, but can MetaKnight use his sword? DDD is still a penguin thing, and he's fat. If he could just lay down on MK, he'd win.

 

[Nova9000]

Zelda skilled with the bow? Dude she always missed! O.o

Marth should be able to dodge, and kill Zelda with his long *** sword.

About DDD vs Meta, what can both do realistically? DDD probably cannot lift his hammer, but can MetaKnight use his sword? DDD is still a penguin thing, and he's fat. If he could just lay down on MK, he'd win.

Are you serious?

Marth sux as a swordsman. Hell, Zelda could hold her own probably against him in a sword fight from how poor his swordsmanship is (according to Paya).

When does she "always miss"?

You must be a poor player then if she misses for you. And Marth has a long sword but he doesn't dodge arrows. No1 can.
except US
Besides, yhou're late to the party Diddy, so the MU is over.
@ new MU
if Meta is assumed to move I think he could pose a threat. slashes would wear down on DDD ntil he falls and then unhappy feet occur.

If not, then DDD could just fall...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNhqb8fleM
@ :08 would be just about how MK dies...Or he could just squeeze him until he pops.

Both fail, but it's a matter of who fails most.

 

[UncleSam]

You must be a poor player then if she misses for you. And Marth has a long sword but he doesn't dodge arrows. No1 can.
except US

I C wut U did thar

@ new MU
if Meta is assumed to move I think he could pose a threat. slashes would wear down on DDD ntil he falls and then unhappy feet occur.

If not, then DDD could just fall...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNhqb8fleM
@ :08 would be just about how MK dies...Or he could just squeeze him until he pops.

Both fail, but it's a matter of who fails most.

Well isn't MK a species of Kirb?
and Kirby can't exist IRL.
questions help lag the MU's, it's what JOE wants lol

 

[Sieguest]

That's because you're thinking way to hard on the matter.
millions of years ago when evolution was lazy species absorbed nutrients.

... like 40

millions of years ago when evolution was lazy species had simple life processes...

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

MK is just a fat bat that in no way in RL could he actually weild a blade, aka his only offence and defence, DK has this.

next MU

 

[Nova9000]

I C wut U did thar

Well isn't MK a species of Kirb?
and Kirby can't exist IRL.
questions help lag the MU's, it's what JOE wants lol

Well, you have managed to dodge time, so It's only reasonable that an arrow is nothing for you to dodge...lol...
And is MK really a Kirby? if so, then why did we change the MU and allow him to fight unlike Kirby and Jiggs? I thought he was going to be able to use his hands because he has gloves on? Or maybe I'm wrong...

MK is just a fat bat that in no way in RL could he actually weild a blade, aka his only offence and defence, DK has this.

next MU

See bolded red part, then look at OP.
Nice try lol.

 

[JOE!]

MK is just a fat bat that in no way in RL could he actually weild a blade, aka his only offence and defence, DK has this.

next MU

nice to know Dk is here to beat up MK for DDD, but then that fat penguin ***** him in return...

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

And is MK really a Kirby? if so, then why did we change the MU and allow him to fight unlike Kirby and Jiggs? I thought he was going to be able to use his hands because he has gloves on? Or maybe I'm wrong...

That's not the name of the species, but yes, Meta Knight is.

 

[Nova9000]

That's not the name of the species, but yes, Meta Knight is.

So you answered one part of the question...
So why did MK beat Kirby if both fail as much as each other?

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

I really have no idea. The match should be them staring each other down until one dies, probably Meta Knight because of the added weight of his armor.

 

[Nova9000]

Well, maybe someone will come in and justify the case so we can determine who wins.

 

[JOE!]

MK won because he had something that could potentially hurt Kirby, where theres no way in hell kirby could hurt MK

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

nice to know Dk is here to beat up MK for DDD, but then that fat penguin ***** him in return...

lol didn't read it right I guess I just lost all credibility

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

MK won because he had something that could potentially hurt Kirby, where theres no way in hell kirby could hurt MK

But how will MK ever reach him to use it?

 

[JOE!]

But how will MK ever reach him to use it?

it's assumed they everntually somehow get into melee range....but eh.

anywho, who's less fail here? DDD or MK?

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Can either one really move? Dedede's more likely to outlive MK if they can't.

 

[Nova9000]

Well if that is the case, then DDD should outlive MK. And afterwards we eliminate both of them.

 

[JOE!]

Well if that is the case, then DDD should outlive MK. And afterwards we eliminate both of them.

this.

and im thinking are this round's retirees?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

this.

and im thinking are this round's retirees?

good idea. also is a good idea too

 

[JOE!]

good idea. also is a good idea too

why ? besides the fact i like to do it in even numbers to keep the MU's clean, he doesnt really share the situation of phail that these 4 have, and there are still people he can compete with on the roster