Tales of Brawl - Innerscope has released Lloyd 2.0!

[JamietheAuraUser]

Idea for Beast: Press A when the shoulder tackle connects to change to Hunting Beast. Press B when the shoulder tackle connects to change to Raging Beast..

IMO Demon Fang should force downed enemies to their feet. And for projectile editing, you might try getting EternalYoshi to hex it for you.

Edit: Nevermind, Omega Tempest has already been used. I just thought it would work nicely as a Utilt extension.

How about Ftilt change for Tiger Rage/Heavy Tiger Blade?

 

[Royal_Blade]

GD, I had an idea for Lloyd's aerials. Something simple, they're all parts of Lloyd's Tiger Rage arte:

U-Air: Upward slash with the vorpal sword.
B-Air: Backwards slash with the flamberge. Lloyd faces the opposite direction after execution. (Works like Ike's BAir and Marth's)
D-Air: Downwards slash with flamberge. (Use your current F-Air and mix it with the ending of the current D-Air)
F-Air: Forward slash with vorpal sword.

Also, I re-downloaded the Lloyd Irving Beta, still won't show. Is the model compatible with BBox v0.64?

Oh... nvm... I have to use v0.63d. It's all good.
If you want me to animate anything, I'd be glad to help.

@Jamie: Chaining the shoulder charge into Raging Beast would be useless because Lloyd spins first then shoulder charges. So that wouldn't work.

 

[GP&B]

The aerials are all pretty much tentative stuff, but some of them have animations.

And that would make sense. I use 0.63d modset 4. If you're going to make animations, keep 0.62 around with it. It's the latest version where the "Clean" command actually works (which removes any unnecessary keyframes, thus reducing file size a good amount).

 

[Royal_Blade]

The aerials are all pretty much tentative stuff, but some of them have animations.

And that would make sense. I use 0.63d modset 4. If you're going to make animations, keep 0.62 around with it. It's the latest version where the "Clean" command actually works (which removes any unnecessary keyframes, thus reducing file size a good amount).

I was just giving some suggestions to aerials because Lloyd has no B-Air.

And sure, I'll get v0.62.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

@Jamie: Chaining the shoulder charge into Raging Beast would be useless because Lloyd spins first then shoulder charges. So that wouldn't work.

Really? Huh. To be honest, I hadn't ever gotten a good look at Raging Beast. I'd thought it was shoulder > spin > backhand. Though, that could still work, in a way. Not quite the original arte, but it'd be a cool attack.

 

[GP&B]

I was just giving some suggestions to aerials because Lloyd has no B-Air.

And sure, I'll get v0.62.

Animation-wise, true. The moveset laid out for him does have a Bair idea though. You can find the moveset in a link in the first post.

 

[Royal_Blade]

Animation-wise, true. The moveset laid out for him does have a Bair idea though. You can find the moveset in a link in the first post.

Huh... Well it's basically my idea... just my B-air then F-air (but also backwards). That's fine. I can provide that animation if you want?

 

[GP&B]

Sure, go for it. If you want to do any other work, there's revising Lloyd's dash and run so that it looks like his ToS1 run and changing his guard animation to his normal (I say this because I do believe ToS2 still has him use the same guard animation in ToS1; we just don't have it). Also, the reason I mentioned using modset 4 is that it allows direct interaction with the bones like a real model editor (as in, you click on the bone and you can rotate it different directions).

 

[Royal_Blade]

Uh... Where can I get this BBox v0.62 modset 4?

And sure I'll edit those.

 

[GP&B]

Here and thanks.

 

[Royal_Blade]

Here and thanks.

And Thank you.

 

[Ronaldmcdonald]

Here's what I can do if anyone wants and itll help this project get back on track:
Animate
Make a Kirby Hat if someone can fix the 'Colour change with attacks' glitch. Still happens on Kirby.

 

[GP&B]

Animating would be sweet. The Kirby Hat isn't of high priority, but if you want to do it then go for it.

 

[Royal_Blade]

GD, I tried making that pose I wanted for the CSP's. Take a look:
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8752/lloydcsp.png

Here's the image that I'm basing it off of again:
http://images.ados.fr/bd-manga/photo/3565312356/tales-of/lloyd-irving-544535afa.jpg

It's just one frame. If someone could make the CSP's from ingame shots, that'll be nice. I have it under "AppealLw" right now. (Just a placement)

Also, Is there a way that we can make a Lloyd trophy?

Edit: For some interesting gameplay, could we put Tempest (or Blazing Tempest) for a Neutral Air? We can then give him some short hopping techs. Even short hopping into Rising Falcon would be useful.
And in place of the up tilt, we can put Lloyd's current upward slash (because were remaking the ToS1 upward slash for his neutral attack) so not all tilts are artes.

 

[JetAurion]

Are you intending to implement an Over Limit-like feature?

You can add Blazing Tempest and all those that way.

 

[GP&B]

GD, I tried making that pose I wanted for the CSP's. Take a look:
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8752/lloydcsp.png

Here's the image that I'm basing it off of again:
http://images.ados.fr/bd-manga/photo/3565312356/tales-of/lloyd-irving-544535afa.jpg

It's just one frame. If someone could make the CSP's from ingame shots, that'll be nice. I have it under "AppealLw" right now. (Just a placement)

Also, Is there a way that we can make a Lloyd trophy?

Edit: For some interesting gameplay, could we put Tempest (or Blazing Tempest) for a Neutral Air? We can then give him some short hopping techs. Even short hopping into Rising Falcon would be useful.
And in place of the up tilt, we can put Lloyd's current upward slash (because were remaking the ToS1 upward slash for his neutral attack) so not all tilts are artes.

Cool. Best way to take in-game CSP shots is simply using the easy CSP maker stage that has the uni-colored background panels in them. It'd be a good idea to swap out Lloyd's current mouth and face texture with one that matches the picture you have before doing that of course.

A trophy, if it can be done (and I'm pretty sure it's possible), is actually the easiest way to take consistent, uni-angular CSPs but you have to have a device that can record from the TV and/or take screenshots (which would actually be of higher quality because it takes the resolution into account).

A few people, including myself and thanyou, had suggested Tempest for the longest time on Nair but it got continual opposition, which is how it got placed on UTilt (and it still doesn't make sense to me given how Tempest moves through the air with forward motion). And not a bad idea with the ToS2 upward slash for UTilt although it's a tad slow right now (very easy fix obviously). I want input from others first though and more importantly, I want the base moveset done before most other things are considered. Still, I will try to keep these ideas in mind as the preliminary moveset reaches completion.

Are you intending to implement an Over Limit-like feature?

You can add Blazing Tempest and all those that way.

I'm not entirely sure how it'd be implemented. The way OL operates in ToS1 is by receiving tension through eating favorite foods, seeing other party members fall, or receiving damage (the main one that would be implemented here if OL was used). It has a large similarity to vBrawl Lucario's aura mechanic which I personally don't like to begin with as it rewards you for having high damage. I do see what you mean by enabling Blazing Tempest that way though. A.C.S. Tales of Fighters allows Lloyd to use Haenrekku and Houou Tenku (amongst some time-based abilities but that's only because the sound clips were unused in JPN ToS1 and the developer felt like using those abilities) when in OL.

But now that brings me to another point. If we implemented OL in the way that you build a hidden variable through attacks and initiate it through some button combo (that doesn't use a special, of course) and the only changes were enhanced attacks, slightly increased damage, and greatly increased movement speed. Doing OL the ToS1 way would be extremely overpowered unless you're talking about a character like Genis (beyond the fact that putting in Smash would be hilariously hard) who needs a ton of time free of stun to cast Indignation Judgement.

Again, all theory and an extremely tentative and not even remotely confirmed idea.

 

[Royal_Blade]

How do you swap the face/mouth texture?

Edit: And where is this stage? (For future references.)

 

[GP&B]

In any of the costume files, you'll see pcllo_mth.001 and pcllo_eye.001. Replace these with any of the other respective textures to change his face.

I believe the stage is in the beta package, but I don't remember.

 

[Royal_Blade]

can't you adjust how it changes in-game (through a different method)?

 

[GP&B]

pikazz is the only one knowledgeable enough on it and I'm not even sure if Lloyd's files are even setup the proper way to do it. I need to PM him about it and see if there's anything I can try to do.

EDIT: I noticed we don't have a smile to match the pose you displayed. If Zephron gets around to being active again and is interested in doing something, I could ask if he wants to do that for this pose.

EDIT2: Going to try to do a little visual work today. Lloyd's slow walk makes the animation move very fast in-game. This is pretty easy to adjust. Royal_Blade, if you're looking for any animation work, WalkBrake, Turn, TurnRun, and TurnRunBrake all have an impact on how Lloyd functions technically, not just aesthetically. It allows him to do things like instantaneously switch directions and it looks odd without a normal standing turn. If you're up to it, these would be great animations to have and not too hard to accomplish (comparatively speaking at least).

 

[Royal_Blade]

Well I can alter the face but I can't do anything with it (testing wise). So... I'll start on his B-Air.

Edit: Sure I'll work on those after the B-Air which probably won't get started until tomorrow.
And for the mouth, I'm using pcllo01_mth.015 at the moment. And for the eye, i'm using pcllo01_eye.004

Well, I'm off to the movies. Later.

 

[GP&B]

Well I can alter the face but I can't do anything with it (testing wise). So... I'll start on his B-Air.

Yeah, it's mostly just for screenshot-related things. Until I get face changing figured out, it'll have to remain static for right now. And actually, go ahead and work on B-Air instead. Having the concept come to life would be good.

 

[Royal_Blade]

GD, I have a question.

Why are Lloyd's swords in his FitWolf.pac? Shouldn't they be in the FitWolf##.pac/pcs?

Edit: I found an alternate pose for CSP's

And I finished the WalkBrake and now working on the Run.

 

[GP&B]

We had to find models to replace with the swords and the only ones we could find were in FitWolf.pac. Unconventional, yes, but we don't have much choice.

 

[ryuu seika]

A few people, including myself and thanyou, had suggested Tempest for the longest time on Nair but it got continual opposition, which is how it got placed on UTilt (and it still doesn't make sense to me given how Tempest moves through the air with forward motion). And not a bad idea with the ToS2 upward slash for UTilt although it's a tad slow right now (very easy fix obviously). I want input from others first though and more importantly, I want the base moveset done before most other things are considered. Still, I will try to keep these ideas in mind as the preliminary moveset reaches completion.

Tempest doesn't feel like a non-special in the slightest. I say ditch it all together and stick with the extensions as UpB. As such, I'd be in favour of the upward slash.
As for other move changes, I still like the idea of "sonic slash" as his dash attack but I can't remember what you have in place now.

Stuff about overlimit...

I'm not convinced the idea fits Smash and I believe that this project should be about fitting Lloyd into Brawl, not about adjusting Brawl to fit Lloyd.

Haenrekku

It's "Kaenrekku".

 

[Royal_Blade]

@Ryuu: What's "Sonic Slash"? Is that the unused Kuuha Zesseigeki?

@GD: Oh, Ok.

@Overlimit discussion: I agree with Ryuu.

 

[GP&B]

Tempest doesn't feel like a non-special in the slightest. I say ditch it all together and stick with the extensions as UpB. As such, I'd be in favour of the upward slash.
As for other move changes, I still like the idea of "sonic slash" as his dash attack but I can't remember what you have in place now.

I've never felt Tempest as an appropriate UTilt-like move in the first place given how most UTilt's usually bring the opponent into the air while Tempest merely has some anti-pressure and anti-air use, the former of which can be beat out by shielding easily.

The current dash is some vague double spin slash. Are you referring to Kuuhashou or a different arte? I can't think of any Sonic slash move unless you're improvising one based off one of his artes. EDIT: If you do mean Kuuha Zesseigeki, that'd pretty be awesome. There's also another unused voice clip, but I forget the spelling. It sounds like "tensouha/tenshouha" and it's a huge dash with a diagonal rise backwards and teleporting back onto the ground; very similar to Leon's Kuushuuken.

I'm not convinced the idea fits Smash and I believe that this project should be about fitting Lloyd into Brawl, not about adjusting Brawl to fit Lloyd.

Pretty much how I feel.

It's "Kaenrekku".

Damnit >:|

 

[Royal_Blade]

That's Genkouha (I believe) GD. And That is a pretty awesome move.

Lloyd doesn't have Rending Thrust so it's not "Tenshouha".

 

[GP&B]

That's Genkouha (I believe) GD. And That is a pretty awesome move.

Lloyd doesn't have Rending Thrust so it's not "Tenshouha".

Bleh, I've gotten better at the vowels just by listening to more voices, but some of the consonants almost sound silent or even wrong at times.

 

[Zephron]

@Royal Blade

I like the pose, but I don't think we have an animation like that for Lloyd, and I would prefer to use an ingame model as opposed to a picture for the CSP. We should make is consistent and seamless with the real game, not dreadfully obvious someone hacked into the game and added the thing.

 

[GP&B]

@Royal Blade

I like the pose, but I don't think we have an animation like that for Lloyd, and I would prefer to use an ingame model as opposed to a picture for the CSP. We should make is consistent and seamless with the real game, not dreadfully obvious someone hacked into the game and added the thing.

I think it's more or less a reference picture for the 1 frame animation he'll try to make for the CSP because I'd also disagree if we just used a picture.

 

[Royal_Blade]

I think it's more or less a reference picture for the 1 frame animation he'll try to make for the CSP because I'd also disagree if we just used a picture.

I meant should I make that pose instead? I just like the pose. (Almost the same amount as the other one) But I know that there's still the other stuff.

 

[GP&B]

I meant should I make that pose instead? I just like the pose. (Almost the same amount as the other one) But I know that there's still the other stuff.

Yeah, that'd be fine.

 

[Royal_Blade]

But which one would you prefer for CSPs?

Unless you want both if people don't like one of them?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

@discussion on page 106: When/if we get around to making a deliberately OP Lloyd, we could put Overlimit on Up Taunt as a combo interrupt (as in, press Up Taunt when flinching after being hit with a 5 or more hit combo to go into Overlimit, which halves all damage taken and grants super armour for 8 seconds or so). Until then, leave Overlimit out of this.

As far as the earlier complaint about Tempest as Utilt and Lloyd not having a good move for getting enemies airborne, Lloyd's primarily a ground fighter anyway, and Sword Rain Alpha is good for sending enemies upwards.

 

[ryuu seika]

@Ryuu: What's "Sonic Slash"?

I put it in quotation marks without capitals because it's not a real tech but rather one of the unique (unnamed) motions he was given for Soul Calibur Legends. In said game, it is the motion that becomes one of the Rising moves if he's in Soul Charge mode and it's basically a forward dash with swords out to both sides. I have no idea why the move lists have it named as "sonic slash".

The artes your talking about are probably his unused time-space artes, the original three being Jigenzan (Soul Edge/Distortion Blade), Kuukanshouten'i (Teleport/Lunge) and Ten'i Souhazan (Soul Strike/Chaos Lunge), though I hear Cless has more these days.

 

[Royal_Blade]

I put it in quotation marks without capitals because it's not a real tech but rather one of the unique (unnamed) motions he was given for Soul Calibur Legends. In said game, it is the motion that becomes one of the Rising moves if he's in Soul Charge mode and it's basically a forward dash with swords out to both sides. I have no idea why the move lists have it named as "sonic slash".

Ah... I know that move.

The artes your talking about are probably his unused time-space artes, the original three being Jigenzan (Soul Edge/Distortion Blade), Kuukanshouten'i (Teleport/Lunge) and Ten'i Souhazan (Soul Strike/Chaos Lunge), though I hear Cless has more these days.

Those and combination versions is what he has.

Also...
I WAS almost done the run... Then I accidentally deletes some (useful) frames because I accidentally hit the "insert" button (which created some useless frames). And the animation was screwed up...
So I'm upset and will do it another time. Will it be okay if I work on Demonic Circle?
If it's a yes, how many frames do you want the charge? Same as Sonic Thrust?

And speaking of which, does Sonic thrust have any ending frames on it? It would be good to get those in as well.

 

[ryuu seika]

I thought Chaos Lunge was the combination version...

 

[Royal_Blade]

Right, there's also Kokuu Souhazan/Chaos Blade. And the Jikuu Souhazan/Chaos Distortion Blade is the other combination arte. But that's enough about Cress.

Edit: Here's my attempt at the slam for Demonic Circle:
http://imageshack.us/m/156/5918/lloyddci.png

I've also recreated the Guard pose and the GuardOn/ GuardOff animations. (They're nothing special.)
And I made the alternate CSP pose. (Temporarily as AppealSL/ AppealSR)

 

[GP&B]

@discussion on page 106: When/if we get around to making a deliberately OP Lloyd, we could put Overlimit on Up Taunt as a combo interrupt (as in, press Up Taunt when flinching after being hit with a 5 or more hit combo to go into Overlimit, which halves all damage taken and grants super armour for 8 seconds or so). Until then, leave Overlimit out of this.

As far as the earlier complaint about Tempest as Utilt and Lloyd not having a good move for getting enemies airborne, Lloyd's primarily a ground fighter anyway, and Sword Rain Alpha is good for sending enemies upwards.

If this ever gets finished (and it will), having an optional PSA for Lloyd with an OL feature would be pretty simple to implement.

Ah... I know that move.


Those and combination versions is what he has.

Also...
I WAS almost done the run... Then I accidentally deletes some (useful) frames because I accidentally hit the "insert" button (which created some useless frames). And the animation was screwed up...
So I'm upset and will do it another time. Will it be okay if I work on Demonic Circle?
If it's a yes, how many frames do you want the charge? Same as Sonic Thrust?

And speaking of which, does Sonic thrust have any ending frames on it? It would be good to get those in as well.

Ugh, that stinks to hear. And yeah, that's fine. Working on pretty much any fairly important animation is fine with me unless I get to a point where I really need a certain animation on hand for coding (which is only going to happen for DSmash, Bair, and any attack changes we decide on).

Oh, and Sonic Thrust does have ending frames on it. They strangely weren't present on the imported animation. Feel free to add ending frames to any animation that doesn't have them. Kind of another low priority thing, but adjusting the animation for aerial Demon Fang is something you could also do.

Right, there's also Kokuu Souhazan/Chaos Blade. And the Jikuu Souhazan/Chaos Distortion Blade is the other combination arte. But that's enough about Cress.

I'm so used to Cless, heh. None of the time-space moves are canon to Lloyd though even if they're appropriate because he technically possesses the pieces to the Eternal Sword (and uses it for Falcon's Crest). Plus, it would kind of diminish one of Cless's unique aspects if anyone ever decided to bring him into Brawl.