Tales of Brawl - Innerscope has released Lloyd 2.0!

[Zephron]

First post of the riivolution Q&A thread has some insight.

It's not hard, really. Just overwhelming if you can't find the right place.

The Lloyd package doesn't have riivolution instructions?

Uh.. chya it does. It includes ReadMe files in every single folder section!

I only included instructions for my XML file but it should still be self explanatory at that point.

 

[BSL]

thought so... whats the problem, richter? i can probably help you out on any problems you have.

 

[Richter Abend]

thought so... whats the problem, richter? i can probably help you out on any problems you have.

I managed to figure it out. Haven't used it yet, though, because I'm currently working on my own project, fusing Nintendo and Microsoft's best sci-fi's.... If you want a hint, the characters both have advanced armor.

Anyway, I figured everything out, and I'm all set to install Riivolution. Thanks for the offer, though.

 

[BSL]

is it halo and metroid? yay. lol

 

[ryuu seika]

What's Lloyd's Taunt in ToS? I've forgotten.

 

[GP&B]

He doesn't necessarily have a taunt. All ToS party members have specific phrases that they'll say based on the situation like either being higher or lower leveled than the enemies they're fighting, being low on HP or TP, or winning the battle with any of these scenarios.

So, we picked ones that showed up the most (since they would have the most recognition) and ones that are deserving as taunts seeing how most characters in Brawl have taunts that literally taunt ("Try me", "You're not ready!", "Fight me", "Don't try me", "Hands off my bread prey!").

 

[fleish]

Actually, there's an EX skill that grants the ability to taunt. It's called "Taunt," and to use it, you simply go into a battle and press Z.

If I recall correctly, Lloyd crosses his swords in front of him and says, "Come on, bring it!"

 

[GP&B]

I completely forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[ryuu seika]

That was what I had meant. Sorry for not being clear enough.

It would make sense for Lloyd to have his taunt as a taunt, even if there are better phrases to use.

 

[Zephron]

That was what I had meant. Sorry for not being clear enough.

It would make sense for Lloyd to have his taunt as a taunt, even if there are better phrases to use.

...Well that sound IS already in the game.

We already have the third one in the game too... it's: "Like that?", which I personally uh... like.

 

[Richter Abend]

is it halo and metroid? yay. lol

Uh, matter of fact, I do need help. I have Riivolution up and working, and Lloyd is perfect - except for the sounds. Also, except for the end result screen, Lloyd's name and pictures (Character Select, In-Battle) don't show up, Wolf's show up instead.

Here is one of the file paths I have:

F:\ssbb\common5_en.pac\sc_selcharacter_en\char_bust_tex_lz77\MiscData[43]

It's supposed to be like that, right?

 

[BlazingPhoenix]

That's the exact same problem I had, and is it for sure supposed to be named common5_en.pac?

 

[GP&B]

Riivolution will only read it if the _en tag is on the end of it, unlike the FPC.

 

[ryuu seika]

I want a wii that works with this .

 

[BSL]

Riivolution will only read it if the _en tag is on the end of it, unlike the FPC.

unless, of course, you tell it where to check.

check your XML file for any specific mention of common5. if it doesnt mention it, put the _en. if it does, do what it says.

 

[Richter Abend]

I was playing as Lloyd yesterday, and at rare yet random points during battle, his polygons would splatter all over the page. I didn't pay much attention, but I did note that it would happen whenever he received fire elemental damage while being thrown by a non-guard type throw.

What really interested me is what would sometimes happen afterwards: Half of the time, his polygons would reform and he would teleport to a random part of the stage. When that didn't happen, I would immediately quit the current battle, but when he did teleport, Lloyd's damage would double but the battle would continue normally.

Has anyone else run into that specific problem?

EDIT: I forgot to mention, this happened most often on the Castle Siege and Halberd stages, though it did happen every now and then in New Pork City. It wouldn't happen in any other maps, though. It would also happen when he receives more than 40% fire type damage during Rising Falcon. (I play with Smart Bombs often.)

 

[ryuu seika]

Sounds like you found his time space Arte .

 

[Richter Abend]

I wish, but it happens with Bowser, Ganondorf, and Diddy Kong's non-guard based grabs. And whenever I do NOT exit the match, the game freezes after the 3:00 minute mark.

 

[ryuu seika]

After Lloyd rises in RF but before he starts coming down, is there a hitbox on the back of his swords that hits behind him? There should be and it should be able to hit several times in very rapid succession before he starts to drop, causing it to disappear.

It shouldn't be easy to hit with, just enough that if the back of Lloyd connects with an ariel enemy it'll do a lot of damage. You may also have to make him pause slightly before dropping to accomplish this. That is ok, it's how RF and RP work.

 

[GP&B]

I wish, but it happens with Bowser, Ganondorf, and Diddy Kong's non-guard based grabs. And whenever I do NOT exit the match, the game freezes after the 3:00 minute mark.

The proper term you're looking for is command throws. This would likely apply to Lucario's >B too. And what do you mean it just freezes at that mark? Do you mean as a result of the command throw splatter?

On a different note, I think pikazz discovered how to customize texture patterns. What this might mean is that we could alter textures in any of Lloyd's animations. To further go upon this, it theoretically means specific animations could make use of different facial textures.

 

[SqLeon]

On a different note, I think pikazz discovered how to customize texture patterns. What this might mean is that we could alter textures in any of Lloyd's animations. To further go upon this, it theoretically means specific animations could make use of different facial textures.

Already started on this, face has been successfully changed, some problems were encountered but still to be considered a success.

 

[GP&B]

Already? I didn't even realize O_o

Where have you currently applied this?

 

[SqLeon]

Already? I didn't even realize O_o

Where have you currently applied this?

In the test files on skype his eyes on some moves were changed to be angrier.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Hey, just a suggestion, but you know his forward smash (Sonic Thrust)? Instead of having a massive-knockback hit like it does now, it should have a flinching hit (does damage, but doesn't have any real knockback) and a windbox (pushes enemy away without damage, but unlike most windboxes, uses target's damage % to determine knockback), both at the same place. Why? Because it makes it more like ToS Sonic Thrust, so people will know how to use it.

 

[ryuu seika]

Sounds good but may need to become Hurricane Thrust for that, IDK.

 

[Fen__]

Hey, just a suggestion, but you know his forward smash (Sonic Thrust)? Instead of having a massive-knockback hit like it does now, it should have a flinching hit (does damage, but doesn't have any real knockback) and a windbox (pushes enemy away without damage, but unlike most windboxes, uses target's damage % to determine knockback), both at the same place. Why? Because it makes it more like ToS Sonic Thrust, so people will know how to use it.

This isn't ToS, though. It's Brawl, and so the mechanics of the moves should be created with that in mind. Most moves for any character work very little like they do in the source material.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

@Ryuu Seika: You don't have to have a "wind" graphical effect in order to make a windbox, do you? If so, then yeah I guess it'd have to be Hurricane Thrust, but otherwise it's fine as Sonic Thrust.

@Fen: I know that, but I think it'd be a cool and unique move if implemented that way. It could still be a good kill move, even if it works like it does in ToS. (Windboxes can hurt. Case in point: Avatar Ness.) It'd be very useful that way as well, even outside of being a kill move, because you always know approximately where your foe will end up. (Grounded enemies stay grounded when blown by a windbox.)

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm with Jamie on this one. Lloyd should retain his moves original properties unless there is a reason for him not to. Hence why I think he should be able to hit for about tripple damage (it's actually 3 quick hits with little knockback) with the back of RF during that short ariel pause.

Yeah, the graphical change probably isn't nessicery, I just always think of HT as being the one with knockback, even though they both did.

 

[GP&B]

Hitboxes on the back of RF is an idea that makes a lot of sense in the context of Brawl.

But I'm really not feeling the windboxes idea on Sonic Thrust.

 

[ryuu seika]

The back of RF hitboxes are something that seems like it might not have been intended in game but it definitely would translate well to SSB as one of those bizarre tricks that all the pro players seem to know.

Wind boxes would allow for knockback similar to that in ToS that never quite seems to match the motion of the attack. I guess it wouldn't really serve much purpose other than retaining original functionality and keeping it from having a downing use at medium percents. I still like the idea though.

How does the spin on Beast affect enemies behind Lloyd? Does DF work right yet? When can we expect the awesomeness that is Kirby's DF?

I'd suggest looking into exactly how Beast works as I know for a fact that the version that Senel and Celsius use can hit with the forehead aswell as the main hitbox. There might be some similar oddities in the Swordsman and Hunting varieties you're using and it would be good to get all of Lloyd's little tricks in.

 

[Zephron]

Rising falcon doesn't even work in the air at the moment, and sonic thrust doesn't even really work at all.

Kirby's demon fang is a last minute priority. We have better things to do, like get Lloyd's moves to work properly.

The demon fang still needs to go diagonally in the air and follow the ground.
Lloyd's spin doesn't really do anything behind Lloyd. He needs to be vulnerable during the move.

 

[ryuu seika]

Who said anything about ariel RF? I'm saying after the rising bit at the beginning but before the drop there should be hitboxes behind him.

ST didn't seem too problematic in the video.

Kirby's DF is a must IMO but if Lloyd's doesn't work properly yet then Kirby's can't really be expected to.

 

[Fen__]

In regards to your new Sonic Thrust idea, you need to consider that the character is trying to be designed with a certain feel, not just a hodgepodge of callbacks to his game. A move designed to push characters away doesn't make a lot of sense for someone who is currently intended to be highly oriented on long, grounded combos. Also, the idea of it growing with damage makes no sense balance-wise. That means it would push enemies the farthest when they actually might be at stake of dying, likely being mostly useless at other times. It'd be a god gimp. The only moves meant to gimp recovery like that already in the game (water gun and FLUDD) need to be charged up for about 2 or 3 seconds for a reason: they're completely broken otherwise.

 

[Richter Abend]

The proper term you're looking for is command throws. This would likely apply to Lucario's >B too. And what do you mean it just freezes at that mark? Do you mean as a result of the command throw splatter?

On a different note, I think pikazz discovered how to customize texture patterns. What this might mean is that we could alter textures in any of Lloyd's animations. To further go upon this, it theoretically means specific animations could make use of different facial textures.

Yes, as a result of the command throw splatter. But funny you should mention Lucario: for some strange reason, I haven't had that problem with Lucario's >B. Not too sure why....

 

[Fen__]

Yes, as a result of the command throw splatter. But funny you should mention Lucario: for some strange reason, I haven't had that problem with Lucario's >B. Not too sure why....

Just to be sure, you're making sure to do the command grab version, right? It only does a command grab at close range. I imagine you know this, but I just want to be sure.

 

[ryuu seika]

In regards to your new Sonic Thrust idea, you need to consider that the character is trying to be designed with a certain feel, not just a hodgepodge of callbacks to his game. A move designed to push characters away doesn't make a lot of sense for someone who is currently intended to be highly oriented on long, grounded combos. Also, the idea of it growing with damage makes no sense balance-wise. That means it would push enemies the farthest when they actually might be at stake of dying, likely being mostly useless at other times. It'd be a god gimp. The only moves meant to gimp recovery like that already in the game (water gun and FLUDD) need to be charged up for about 2 or 3 seconds for a reason: they're completely broken otherwise.

Wait what?

Having knockback that varies with damage makes sense but having a windbox that does doesn't? Nobody said it has to have good knockback, just enough to feel like the move should. If you want it to be a decent combo move then why the hell does KO at the minute anyway?

TBH I'm not entirely certain on how RF works either as it's clearly meant to go through the enemy and have usage as a dodge. Lloyds combos are 3 basic attacks into a tech, not long strings of techs, only his basic attacks need to continue combos.

 

[Fen__]

Wait what?

Having knockback that varies with damage makes sense but having a windbox that does doesn't?

That's exactly right. That doesn't make sense for a disjointed hitbox at all. Regardless, this sort of discussion is really pointless right now. The moveset has already been discussed ad nauseum and the PSA is in the works based on that discussion right now. The people actually working on the project will decide how they like that and what changes they want to make once it's that far.

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm just not geting how damage + KB is significantly different to damage + flinch, then KB enough to make it broken.

 

[Richter Abend]

Just to be sure, you're making sure to do the command grab version, right? It only does a command grab at close range. I imagine you know this, but I just want to be sure.

Yes, I know this, and yes, I'm sure.

On another note, a friend of mine kept going on and on about how he turned Ike into Emil Castagnier, but I sneaked a peek at his computer, and it was a load of hot air; he doesn't even know what BrawlBox is.

I have to admit, though, that as stupid as it sounded at first....it now sounds rather plausible. More difficult than Lloyd, I'd imagine, but plausible.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

@Fen: What Ryuu Seika said. It wouldn't gimp people at all, because the flinch which happens AT THE EXACT SAME RANGE AS THE WINDBOX would reset their recovery, preventing much use at all for gimping. The effect would be much the same as if they'd been hit with a regular knockback move, except that it wouldn't "spin" the target, so they could attempt recovery much earlier, and with a much greater range of options. Not to mention the fact that the reason the other gimping moves work so well is because they have amazing range. And as for "pushing them the farthest when they might actually be at stake of dying", that's the whole point! It's SUPPOSED to be a kill move! Not as kill-move ish as Beast, but it's definitely there to leave a mark. It just goes about it differently, by having pushback instead of "knockback".