Tales of Brawl - Innerscope has released Lloyd 2.0!

[GP&B]

lmao, for a second that was PW because of the avatar.
@thanyou, that would be excellent. I will add both you and Angel to this.

Eh, I'll assign "Miscellaneous *insert related job here*" for those I can't name particularly well.

Updated the OP with team members and added AngelGlory's texture contrast fix to the OP. When we actually get settled on Zephron's textures, I'll need AngelGlory or ds22 to do another CSP/CSS run and I'll put those in the post. Only after getting unique costumes will we have to update again, but I'm not worried about that happening too soon.

 

[Zephron]

Here's an updated banner for our new team members:
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7679/lloydupdate.png

Thanks for using those sigs btw people!

And btw GameDominator06 with that website I should be able to make my own "hurt" face by photoshopping some of the ones we have.

It'll look great!


Also, I have been working on the texture and I noticed: Lloyd totally got a huge tan in ToS2. His skin was a ton paler in the original.

Yes his skin color will be correct in the real texture

 

[GP&B]

Quick O_o. Thanks again.

And glad I could help with the site. I knew giving you the original portraits without you having to reference back to the game constantly would help.

Interesting observation, I actually haven't noticed that.
Good luck with the texture; sounds like it'll turn out great!

 

[Zephron]

Quick O_o. Thanks again.

Lol, it's easy to do. No problem.

Good luck with the texture; sounds like it'll turn out great!

Oh, it will be.

I'm actually replacing nearly everything, and making it a ton more detailed.
The ToS2 has great wrinkles, but that's it. I'm making the clothing more distinct and giving the belts a makeover, while keeping the saturated color we all love.

The red tunic will be slightly leathery. Frankly I always imagined it that way, cloth is pointless for armor.
Any RPG player knows that

 

[GP&B]

Haha, you really got a good handle on what you're looking for and I like that. The only thing I could possibly ask is for a vertex hacker to shrink the pants a little bit (they seem very baggy), but this is all really good and I don't think we want to mess with the texture map too much.

@ds22: by the way, did you manage to find either of the two sword MDL0s? I'm particularly interested in what the texture map and model for the Material Blade substitutes (perhaps I should get the actual name...) look like. If it's possible to individually edit both of them, that would be excellent and a vertex hack would most excellent. For now, I think someone could experiment with Wolf's blaster and try to attach it to Lloyd as a test for when we do get swords.

EDIT: Avatar change but he's a bit awkward just staring. Might just edit a CSP to size and use that
Wait, got a better idea.

 

[thanyou]

Haven't found any animations so far, I'll keep looking though, ds22, where did you find the animations that are in the most recent ver?

Also, I just played the game again, and I've noticed that Lloyd has a LOT of animations, we won't have to make anything, just search thru the iso. Hes even got a dizzy animation :D

EDIT: Lloyd's bone structure is so weird, its hard to animoot it

 

[GP&B]

Actually now that I think of it, he does have some on-the-ground and get-up animations amongst quite a few others. I'm not sure how or where they put the different animations (cutscene animations and battle animations). I know we'll need at least a few animations to be made.

I'm still wondering where to get ToS1 Lloyd's sound effects. SSF2, the Smash fan game, has his sound effects so I might ask. Otherwise, someone with a ToS1 disc/iso should dump it/start looking for those, not that we'll immediately get sound effects in. Having them around is just nice in general.

 

[Zephron]

Haven't found any animations so far, I'll keep looking though, ds22, where did you find the animations that are in the most recent ver?

Also, I just played the game again, and I've noticed that Lloyd has a LOT of animations, we won't have to make anything, just search thru the iso. Hes even got a dizzy animation :D

...Grabbing animation?

...Throw animations? I don't remember Lloyd grabbing anyone ingame.

Either way, awesome!

 

[bloomin ninja]

Awesome guys ^^ been lookin for this guy to be in brawl.

A few ideas for grab moveset

Grab- Lloyd reaches out one of his hands and grabs the opponent by the upper chest/collar with his left sword hand. (kinda like the cliche bully picking up the scrawny little kid and demanding their lunch money) The sword is still there but skewed to the side.

grab jab- Lloyd beats the opponent over the head with the hilt of one of his sword,
(damage, mid, speed mid)

Back throw- Lloyd grabs the opponent by the upper chest rolls backwards and kicks the opponent in the chest with both feet sending them backwards (angle, backwards with a slight upwards curve)

Down throw- Lloyd grabs the opponent by the upper chest backhands them down then does an elbow dive on the opponent (similar to lloyds beast animation: angle, bounce)

Forward throw- Holds opponent up then boots them in the chest with one foot.
(angle, forward with a slight downward curve)

 

[thanyou]

...Grabbing animation?

...Throw animations? I don't remember Lloyd grabbing anyone ingame.

Either way, awesome!

You get what I'm saying >.>

 

[GP&B]

Haha, I had a funny thought where Lloyd's play style would give him amazing offense but disable his grab game since he's holding two swords XD

Good lord, talk about awful out-of-shield options, no shield grabbing, and no JC grabbing in P:M.

 

[Zephron]

While we're talking about the character, I don't think Lloyd should be light.

Medium Air mobility, high gravity, and medium jumps AND light?

This is spelling Link in Brawl. And we all know Link fails miserably with recovery.
Except Link is a heavy. This is Lloyd and he's light!

Lloyd is either going to have to have a great recovery or he should be made heavier to better balance him out.

 

[thanyou]

I agree, medium character with light weapon and decent recovery. Think Ike in terms of size, weight (body, not weapon) and speed only not so slow on the ground and with speedier attacks, like Marth, but with another sword :D

Edit: That's enough snooping for now, I'm gonna call it a night and restart in the morning.

 

[GP&B]

I'm glad you brought that up. I want to start discussing values before doing anything else since this alone defines the movement of Lloyd.

My current proposed values coordinate with a moveset that provides very good on-stage game while balancing it with a really lackluster recovery as well as being not too difficult to combo. This isn't the defined feel I'm looking for so I do want people to talk about it.

Lower end of the medium weight spectrum is probably too low especially since Lloyd seems like a character with a decent amount of weight on him (139lbs precisely) in addition to the armor (which isn't quite apparent in his costume but only seen by in-game equipment).

So increase weight and make the recovery semi-decent (sure as hell better than vBrawl Link's; I think the intent is Marth-like but a little slower and strong throughout the whole move). Give me some more feedback and I'll try to fine tune the idea a little more. Then I'll look for some values to go between and also ask about how you optimize a character for BBrawl and Brawl+ (since he'll have to have some slightly adjusted stats for each respectively).

If you want to see attack and movement speed, we're staying very much true to Lloyd's flow in ToS1 (that's not to say you can drop Demon Fang in-between combos as jab resets just to restart combos but I'd love to incorporate it in a similar fashion ). The breaks between attacks is extremely noticeable in the ToS2 arte video.

Added a winrar video to the OP. The whole Demon Fang jab reset thing totally reminded me of it.

 

[Zephron]

I'd like Demon fang to be able to be used really quickly. Almost no startup lag.

Most of his comboes should be able to to have low enough ending lag to have a demon fang. But in turn demon fang should have reasonable endlag to prevent spamming.

Also Marth is a gimp-y character. Lloyd shouldn't be. He should excel on the ground doing comboes. His aerials should either bring the opponent to the ground or be used with short hops.

He should be quite "combo-happy".

Also, avatar change lol.

 

[GP&B]

Exactly my thoughts. Perhaps some IASA frames into other moves but not DF itself? If that is how those can be worked in the first place.

DF should be good for punishing missed techs in particular, allowing him to make an immediate response with any other move or a grab.
And I did want to stick away from giving Lloyd a spike or even a semi-spike for that matter. In fact, based off what you said about aerials bringing enemies to the ground, I like my idea of aerial Tiger Blade even more. What could be done is to give it an almost spike-like angle (think the angle given from the front end of Falcon's Dair hitbox or even Mario's Fair spike hitbox) but with low base and growth knockback.

What we need is more ideas proposed for Bair, Dair, and Uair (although the current is semi-decent I suppose ^^; ).

Haha, excellent expression choice.
Also, I can haz saturation? Ran my avatar through Image Tricks on my Mac and got this really quickly.

 

[Zephron]

I think you put in a little too much! *See Avy for current facial expression* Want me to make you one?

If yes do you want the green skit box?

 

[GP&B]

Yeah, it's a bit overcooked >_>.
Sure, that'd be nice and the skit box would be cool.

Also, I prioritize a facepalm animation over anything right now, bwa ha ha ha ha! (or a stance at that; you really, really don't have to take this request seriously >_>)
http://silverssimstuff.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ike-facepalm.jpg

 

[Zephron]

Also they don't allow animated avatars for this website <___<

I have like 3 awesome ones I've already made for others, makes me kinda mad.

 

[GP&B]

I know, I was so disappointed. The whole animations in general look awesome and I wish I could use them. I suppose animated sigs are good though.

 

[Zephron]

I need to go to bed now XD

(It's 1:40am over here in Minnesota)

I'm unsure when the texture will be finished, but I just finished all of the eyes for Lloyd and about 1/3 of his body.

Either way I'll continue working on it tomorrow and I hope you guys get some more animations done so I can start playing the d00d!

 

[GP&B]

2:40AM (EST for 90% of Florida, East Coast ftw); it's not like there's much to discuss until tomorrow anyways. I'd like to see some more moveset input from others too. Anyways, off to sleep.

 

[ds22]

Back to say, Angelglory's pic are actually better then mine.
Also, I already searched through the ISO and I didn't find any more animation other then a .mot file (he have the same problem with Naruto on this).
He most likely uses the CHR0 animations in the cutscenes and the .mot in other actions.
And I did find a sword and various textures for it.
EDIT: I fixed the leg issue.
Found out that I screwed something up while fixing the grab glitch (I accidentally gave some bones the same index, which screwed up ingame):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KRWJT84F
(Will mirror it to Mediafire as soon as Mediafire works again)

 

[Zephron]

Plaid (my friend) had made a moveset awhile ago. You said you needed aerial ideas, so here are a couple.


Lol, idk how you do those spoiler tag things. *Spoiler* */Spoiler* only blackens out my text.

Nair: Lloyd does a spin very similar to Ness’s Nair except he’s holding 2 swords. 10ish% and medium knockback. Higher knockback growth than base knockback.

Fair: Very similar to Pit’s (if you want it to be different you could have it angled making more of a slash than a thrust). 14% damage and higher knockback.

Bair: This one copies Ike, except decidedly faster and with two swords rather than 1. 5% for the first hit and 7% for the second, decent knockback, mostly horizontal, low cooldown.

Uair: Lloyd does sort of a scissor cut above him, with one sword starting on one side of his body and the other on the other (as in, his arms start out crossed). He slashes both upwards and they meet in the middle then return to their respective sides. Damage is about 13%, good upwards knockback, sides of attack hit into the middle with weak (3-4% hitboxes) and then they are hit with the middle part.

Dair: Lloyd flips upside down and stabs the air beneath him. Then he flips back up quickly. Straight down knockback, 15% damage, slowish startup, medium cooldown. It should be a decently powerful spike, capable of killing offedge but not ridiculously early. It should also be fast enough that Lloyd has adequate time to recover afterward.

 

[Zephron]

Sorry for the double post, but I found two glitches:



One is that Lloyd (when falling) one of his feet (I think his left) juts out strangely.


The second one I can't really show with an image..

When grabbed, Lloyd doesn't fly around (Yay!) but when he is thrown, he always shoots upwards offscreen after he is thrown. He does move in the direction of the throw it's always immediate and ruins it.

Also here's a preview pic of the new face. Tell me if you like it. (I haven't done the mouths yet, only the eyes)


Don't comment on anything other than the face yet lol I'm not done.

 

[GP&B]

Back to say, Angelglory's pic are actually better then mine.
Also, I already searched through the ISO and I didn't find any more animation other then a .mot file (he have the same problem with Naruto on this).
He most likely uses the CHR0 animations in the cutscenes and the .mot in other actions.
And I did find a sword and various textures for it.
EDIT: I fixed the leg issue.
Found out that I screwed something up while fixing the grab glitch (I accidentally gave some bones the same index, which screwed up ingame):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KRWJT84F
(Will mirror it to Mediafire as soon as Mediafire works again)

Mm... do you think anything different will occur when RTB tries a memory dump in-battle? I don't know how that stuff works, but if it dumped the decompressed animations, that would be amazing.
Great to hear about the leg fix! I'll put this in the OP for now.

@Zephron, the eyes look spot on, but something doesn't feel right... Are they perhaps too far apart? Maybe it's just that the mouth details don't match as much. I'm not too sure.
Yeah, I'm looking at my sig, comparing the eyes, and they might be just a shade too far apart. Don't know how much more you can move them in without them overlapping.

I think it's the face being too tan, you're right O_o. Finish up the color on the face and hair and then we'll make a better judgment.

 

[Gregory2590]

I think Sword Rain can be a downtilt attack. It can work as something like, "The more the player presses A, the more thrusts he does" or something like that.

 

[ds22]

@Gamedominator06:
Maybe it could.
It could also work for the Naruto games, but I cannot run the battle's on my laptop.
Anyway, the Mediafire mirror:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ywg5yw2loyy
@Zephron:
The throwing glitch you have is not fixable at the time, as for I don't know why characters tend to fly of the screen.
As for the feet, try the newest download.

 

[GP&B]

Useless poast.

 

[GP&B]

Crashboards loves it some 502 Gateways.

I think Sword Rain can be a downtilt attack. It can work as something like, "The more the player presses A, the more thrusts he does" or something like that.

Similar to Ness' DTilt but with more hits occurring? That's rather interesting. Plus, then we could build a DSmash like how most DSmashes are built around punishing roll spammers or on-stage edgeguarding.

Meh... double post not my intent.

@Plaid's aerial moveset
I still support Nair as Tempest and Fair as Tiger Blade. I feel both would have a very nice feel to them. I like Uair and Bair is actually described in my proposed moveset as using Ike's Bair animation too. Not sure about Dair since I agree with Zephron's style about not being so much about gimps (Marth and his DTilt, Fair, Dair). I think the style will be focused around great on-stage game where all of his combo abilities are used and his recovery will be moderately good (I was thinking sort of a slow Dolphin Slash but not diminishing throughout the move), but semi-predictable.

 

[Senjen]

hey guys i made the CSP (Character Selection Palettes) for Lloyd Irving ^^ i hope u like them. I even added a Dark Lloyd ^^

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47251013@N08/4508767102/sizes/o/

don't know if anyone here is an okami fan as well but i made pallettes for her you can check them if you want to ...

you can use the CSP just give me credit if you use them ok? you can tune them up if you don't like them

 

[GP&B]

It seems we are in favor of AngelGlory's current CSP's, but we'll keep those around as alternatives. Thanks Senjen.

EDIT: Why are the ones on the bottom stretched down?

 

[Senjen]

they are stretched down do to my photoshop acting glitchy -.-

 

[GP&B]

It happens sometimes >_>.
Actually, since Zephron is doing the recolors, I could tell you specifically what colors we will have so that you can do them as such.

EDIT: Oops, deleted the message showing the recolors that Zeph would be doing

 

[Lil_Yuri]

I'm looking forward to seeing this completed. GL guys.

On the moveset I have a couple of suggestions:

For his jab combo, what if you made Sword Rain the repeated A move.
A,A,A would be his jab combo, but you could repeatedly press A after the second A and you get Sword Rain.

I think Lloyd's DSmash could be that basic attack he does if you attack while holding down. He does a
short hop and a 360 spin while holding his swords out. I think that move would fit perfectly for a DSmash.

For Tiger Blade, ever thought about it as an Up Special? I think it'll be alot better than Rising Phoenix.
That way you won't have basically the same move as an Up Special and Down Special.

As for Lloyd's aerials, maybe you can find some decent aerials for him in his basic aerial attacks that he does in the game? That might help. Definitely feel you on Tempest as a Nair though.

 

[Zephron]

I don't know why you guys are so obsessed about CSPs while Lloyd can't do anything other than a T pose currently.

I can make the ingame CSPs once I'm done with the actual textures. It'll be much better that way.

If you guys really want to make the CSPs for some reason let me finish the textures first

For his jab combo, what if you made Sword Rain the repeated A move.
A,A,A would be his jab combo, but you could repeatedly press A after the second A and you get Sword Rain.

I really like this idea, I imagine it kind of like Pit's jab.


As for the aerials I'd want Fair to be Tiger Blade still. GameDominator06 is right, it'll feel so much better. Make his Down B and Up B different though. Lloyd has so many moves we can make sure all of his moves are useful and unique.

 

[Fen__]

@Zephron: You've used the code tag in this thread, so I know you know about it, but I figured I'd tell you that if you place something in code tags, other bbcode won't be executed (like when you posted the sig code, but replaced the brackets with asterisks to prevent it from executing). Also, the other tag you were looking for is the collapse tag, not the spoiler tag.

Anyways, good luck on all of this guys, as it looks good so far. I haven't ever played ToS, but Lloyd seems like a pretty solid idea for a character, and, if nothing else, your team seems to have good drive.

 

[thanyou]

I'm looking forward to seeing this completed. GL guys.

On the moveset I have a couple of suggestions:

For his jab combo, what if you made Sword Rain the repeated A move.
A,A,A would be his jab combo, but you could repeatedly press A after the second A and you get Sword Rain.

I think Lloyd's DSmash could be that basic attack he does if you attack while holding down. He does a
short hop and a 360 spin while holding his swords out. I think that move would fit perfectly for a DSmash.

For Tiger Blade, ever thought about it as an Up Special? I think it'll be alot better than Rising Phoenix.
That way you won't have basically the same move as an Up Special and Down Special.

As for Lloyd's aerials, maybe you can find some decent aerials for him in his basic aerial attacks that he does in the game? That might help. Definitely feel you on Tempest as a Nair though.

I like all of these ideas, especially the incorporation of sword rain into the jab combo. Also Uair and Dair should be some kinda scissor slice that Zeph stated earlier. He quickly slices with both swords simultaneously up or down. I don't like tiger blade as the Uspecial, if anything I think Bdown should be different if in the air or ground, like on the ground it'd be fierce demon fang and in the air it'd be Rising phoenix.

I'm gonna look at these .mot files in a hex editor and see if its a compressed package of chr0s or something. (I hope to god they are)

MAJOR EDIT: Upon further inspection of the mot files, they are .brres packages with chr0s and everything, I found 6 .brres packages for Lloyd under PARTITION 1/BATTLE/BG/CHARACTER/loy_b300-305_mot.brres

I'm inspecting them more now.

MORE EDITS: I ALSO found that they're openable in brawlbox right off the bat, no further hexxing required, but I cannot get the CHR0's I found in them to work with the lloyd model I have :\

THE EDIT UPON THE EDIT: I got one of them to work, but its only 10 frames long... BUT ITS A START.

YET ANOTHER EDIT: I think I mess up big time here, when I try and view the animations, Lloyd spazzes out, would it have something to do with the fact that I set it to 500 frames D:

THIS IS ALSO AN EDIT: I found the win poses, but they were the ones that were spazzing out, I'll check the .brres packages I found for him under PARTITION 1/BATTLE/EvMOTION (I think we can all safely assume that these are his attacks ;D)

 

[GP&B]

Very promising finds, thanyou. They may indeed require hexing by the looks of it, but we'll see. Great news to hear!

I like all of these ideas, especially the incorporation of sword rain into the jab combo. Also Uair and Dair should be some kinda scissor slice that Zeph stated earlier. He quickly slices with both swords simultaneously up or down. I don't like tiger blade as the Uspecial, if anything I think Bdown should be different if in the air or ground, like on the ground it'd be fierce demon fang and in the air it'd be Rising phoenix.

Then Sword Rain for ending jab combo sounds good? It's certainly not a foreign concept seeing how Pit (mentioned), Fox, Falco, and many others have that effect. Maybe we could soup it up even more and add a direction input within Sword Rain so you can go into either Alpha, Beta, or Beast.

I'm trying to figure out the USpecial deal here. Rising Phoenix doesn't make any sense since he'd have Rising Falcon for vB (which I agree on putting it as aerial vB while leaving grounded vB for something else).

@Zeph
I guess it is kind of funny that we're going over CSPs this much. This kind of work is usually left until later. What we should be more worried about is getting the swords in his hands which I believe someone said they found in the ISO (ds22?). Somebody should test putting Wolf's blaster in Lloyd's hand since that model is still in there.

Asked Cleod over at SSF2 about sound effects and he said he'll have to find the source of the ripped files (since some weren't originally ripped by him).

Anyways, good luck on all of this guys, as it looks good so far. I haven't ever played ToS, but Lloyd seems like a pretty solid idea for a character, and, if nothing else, your team seems to have good drive.

I think the best part is that Lloyd has an immense number of moves at his disposal as seen by both arte reference videos. We got a lot we can move around and with thanyou's discoveries, I'm quite excited for any further findings and successes.

And believe me, this project is getting done even if I get put on life support for some crazy reason. My school schedule would make college students jealous (although I want to get the heck out of high school; so close) seeing as how I only have 3 academic classes, none of which I have any decent load of work in (AP Econ which I'm an ace at, English is lol, and Calculus is no problem). In the summer, I'm taking two college courses merely to get used to it, but it's not like that'll take up the entire week anyways (I'm hoping to complete this before summer, but we'll see about that).

 

[Zephron]

And believe me, this project is getting done even if I get put on life support for some crazy reason.

I might just take you up on that offer. *erie music*

Good news though to help us with the "before summer pwease? :D" endeavor.

I'm 90% done with the texture! (Been working nonstop... even at work when it was really slow XD)
And I'm really happy about how it turned out.
(Yes I fixed the eyes.... in my opinion.)

I kind of messed up one of his gloves and the pants need a better texture on them,
but once I'm done with that I'll unveil it. But don't think it's done there.

The critiques will begin and I will encourage them so everyone will agree he looks the best he can be.

Then I'll start on the recolors and make CSPs for the whole crew.
(Or let you CSP happy people do it for me )


@GameDominator06

I challenge you to make the OP look better than Kid Bowser's. Organized, detailed, colorful ,and informative.