TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[PK Bash]

Phoenix Wright in UMvC3

Phoenix's UMvC3 moveset is a very faithful representation of his court cases. You start with evidence collection, present evidence to the opponent, and then achieve turnabout (with accompanying godly music) and proceed to break down the witness into a submission. Basically, phoenix starts off as a low tier getting whooped by the prosecutor for the majority of the case and he turns it around at the last second and becomes god tier, very much like his actual court cases.

While very faithful there were several reasons why I thought it wasn't too enjoyable. For one the playstyle is slow and you often didn't achieve turnabout. Another is that even when you did, the opponent could sometimes just camp phoenix out until it runs out, so you don't get the reward of achieving turnabout.

Phoenix Wright in Smash

View attachment 166298

Turnabout mode is still the best part of his UMvC3 moveset and I think that needs to be preserved in some way in his smash moveset. So the idea is to let him keep his trump card move in his arsenal while straying away from his low tier achieving top tier gimmick which a lot of people didn't like too much.

Here's my idea: Turnabout will not be a mode he can unlock but rather it will be a KO move like little mac's ko punch except that it triggers a short cinematic like his lvl 3 super in UMvC3. Basically he has a built in Final smash in his moveset. However it will be difficult to land and you will probably only see it used every now and then.

To activate turnabout you must land 3 successful objections on an opponent for it to activate. The objection will be a counter and if you whiff the counter you will incur a penalty from the judge which will take the form of self-damage (8%). And If you get 5 penalties you will be insta-KO'd. These penalties will not carry over to the next stock, so if you have 4 penalties, you could just not use objection for the rest of the stock. I think this will make the move pretty balanced because there is risk to go with it's high reward and also since you have to counter someone three times, you are unlikely to land it on someone and kill them at a low percent.

This is a pretty cool idea. It reminds me of an idea I had using the standard Penalty system from the games, but I took a lot of creative licence!

Wright starts the game with five "!"s next to his % and picture. His standard "B" special move lets Wright loose an Objection, which is obviously going to be a strong move and it would look pretty flashy too, probably with some invincibility on it (you should be able to use this as a pseudo-counter of course, it's the whole point of Objecting). Using it removes one of your "!"s. I'm sure you can see where this is going - I'm basically turning him into an ammunition character. In theory he would only have five Objections per game, but you should probably recover one every time you kill someone or once you've dealt 100% damage total to an opponent or something.

Naturally if you whiff it, you should find yourself in a lot of lag (perhaps he can go into his sweat pose) so that your opponent can enforce the penalty on you! I dunno about self-damage - as an AA fan it would be a cool touch, but Smash is a casual game at heart and I think that would put a lot of newer players off ever risking using the move, which would be a shame. Let your opponent be the judge instead! Seems more fun to me.

It gives Wright something of a Trump Card move in the vein of Turnabout (or Puff's Rest), which definitely needs to be a core part of how this character plays should he get into Smash.

Which I really, really hope he does.

 

[GlitchWarrior]

This is a pretty cool idea. It reminds me of an idea I had using the standard Penalty system from the games, but I took a lot of creative licence!

Wright starts the game with five "!"s next to his % and picture. His standard "B" special move lets Wright loose an Objection, which is obviously going to be a strong move and it would look pretty flashy too, probably with some invincibility on it (you should be able to use this as a pseudo-counter of course, it's the whole point of Objecting). Using it removes one of your "!"s. I'm sure you can see where this is going - I'm basically turning him into an ammunition character. In theory he would only have five Objections per game, but you should probably recover one every time you kill someone or once you've dealt 100% damage total to an opponent or something.

Naturally if you whiff it, you should find yourself in a lot of lag (perhaps he can go into his sweat pose) so that your opponent can enforce the penalty on you! I dunno about self-damage - as an AA fan it would be a cool touch, but Smash is a casual game at heart and I think that would put a lot of newer players off ever risking using the move, which would be a shame. Let your opponent be the judge instead! Seems more fun to me.

It gives Wright something of a Trump Card move in the vein of Turnabout (or Puff's Rest), which definitely needs to be a core part of how this character plays should he get into Smash.

Which I really, really hope he does.

That's a neat concept. I personally believe that, should that be his playstyle, he shouldn't lose Objections that he misses; in his own series, he usually won't get penalized for a proper contradiction, so why should he get penalized for failure?

 

[puremrz]

For my fellow European friends: The 3DS has the Ace Attorney games on a discount right now, so if you want to know what all the fuss is about with this character, you know what to do.

 

[Flyboy]

For my fellow European friends: The 3DS has the Ace Attorney games on a discount right now, so if you want to know what all the fuss is about with this character, you know what to do.

I believe they were or are discounted on the US shop as well! $19.99 for Dual Destinies is a steal, let alone the discounts for the Trilogy. You can own the entire mainline series for less than what it was to buy the trilogy back in the day. Wild.

 

[Wyoming]

Feenie come home...

No new Ace Attorney title this year might play in our favour for DLC period, perhaps? Since no doubt next year is the year!

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Feenie come home

Fellow Iris fan, I hope?

 

[An Archie]

One of my favorite aspects of the Ace Attorney franchise is the music! It always captures the feel of the moment and I genuinely get excited when I play a new ace attorney game for what the game's version of the pursuit theme or objection theme will sound like.

So here's my question: If Phoenix got in to smash what songs would you like to be represented in ultimate, be it a remix or just a rip from the original games?

Here's what I think:

1. Pursuit - Cornered (2001). I guess this is a bit of a boring pick but to me it is the epitome of ace attorney music, and the ace attorney franchise all together.I almost feel that you couldn't add Phoenix in smash without this song. I feel like it would fit so well in the chaos of a smash match!
2. Confess the Truth (2002). A really good song in the context of the courtroom, but I would hope that they would remix this song for smash. I think you could do something really interesting with, and keep its original feel intact.
3.Pursuit - Lying Coldly (2009). A very high energy and exhilarating track that would feel right at home in smash, with or without a remix. This song could also be Edgeworth's theme if he were to be introduced in a trailer

What would you pick?

 

[Sonsa]

Objection and Cornered 2001 are with Phoenix in every crossover he goes, UMvC3, Project X Zone 2, vs Layton, they have the most legacy and are most recognizable for people who may not have played Ace Attorney yet! Maybe they could be blended together, or Objections from multiple games can have a medley while Cornereds also have their own medley, I love Objection 2001 and can listen to it forrrr I dunno, but 20 minutes was fine with me, don't know my limits, but it is a pretty short loop after the beginning!

Turnabout Sisters feels like the next most important, it's very vital! And it sounds great! This remix of it would fit right in I'd think, copy and paste if possible! It's a fun, dance, chill vibe, but any dance vibe is also a fighting game vibe, can totally play Smash to this <3

Investigation ~ Core 2001 is awesome, filled with emotion and memories from the series and would give fights suuuch a cool vibe! Here's the official pachislot remix!

Cross Examination ~ Allegro 2001 is pretty classic and could be used for a remix or even medley! If a medley, then I would definitely transition to Cross Examination ~ Allegro 2004 in a remix similar to this! I couldn't find the music by itself, I tried, but yeah, pachinko noises. Still! The violin! The guitar! Great intensity! I would personally skip CE~A 2002 from the medley, it's kind of weak, sorry to say... 2007's would be totally cool though, great if it would be remixed to up the intensity, maybe some violin, maybe some guitar! And Presto 2009 would certainly fit in there!

Gumshoe's Theme is a great time, can easily have fun fighting to this!

I agree with Announce the Truth 2002, it's a favorite of mine! A very serious, maybe even threatening vibe, one on one matches would be intense!

Hotline of Fate is probably the most classic track from Justice for All, would probably need a little intro before getting to the loop!

I love Courtroom Lobby and Trial 2001, but Trial 2004 is definitely the most important Trial theme to be represented.

Fragrence of Dark Coffee is going to have to be the exception to the rule. Sakurai has said that songs like "The Roost", calmer songs, not really for fighting have to be lessened, and that's totally understandable, but this song gets a pass, needs to ignore any rules and come in whatever form does it the most justice.

Apollo Justice's Objection Theme remix from Spirit of Justice could really just be copied and pasted in, it's great and isn't a short loop, it can hold its own!

His Cornered Theme is also too good... I'm trying to keep this list short haha

Gatta get Trucy's Theme in there too, can copy and paste, I personally prefer this version to it's 2013 update. The 2013 one is great and all, I just want the instruments to have more oomph!

Ema's Theme too! Copy and paste, perfect enough as is!

Athena's Objection Theme! Copy and paste the 2016 version, it's still amazing!

Mood Matrix ~ Running Wild! It's good!

Then last but not least Pursuit 2011 to represent Ace Attorney Investigations, and just cause it's possibly the best Cornered theme in the series <3

So like! Around 17ish tracks? Maybe that's too much...? If keeping it to the absolute vital... just cause remembering that Bayo got a nice handful of DLC songs, but Ryu only got two and some variations... I'd consider Objection 2001, Cornered 2001, and Turnabout Sisters to be the most important!

Edit: Oh! And to represent Dai Gyakuten Saiban, if at all, my vote would go to Confess The Truth 2015!

Edit Again: Wow, only now do I realize that the mix I was calling hotline of fate is actually Cornered 2002...wow...I am ashamed...

 

[An Archie]

So like! Around 17ish tracks? Maybe that's too much...? If keeping it to the absolute vital... just cause remembering that Bayo got a nice handful of DLC songs, but Ryu only got two and some variations...

In an ideal world, Phoenix is added into smash and ace attorney gets the same amount of love as castlevania is getting (over 30 tracks, a stage, echo fighter, etc...).

 

[Isaac4SmashUltimate]

*Slams the bench* I'm in! I support PW being in SSBUltimate! I've played the AA games starting 2007 to now. (Even though I haven't played AA5 to the recent games yet, but that's all due to money.)

I wanted PW with Mega Man, Ryuu and Viewtiful Joe as the four Capcom reps.

 

[Flyboy]

*Slams the bench* I'm in! I support PW being in SSBUltimate! I've played the AA games starting 2007 to now. (Even though I haven't played AA5 to the recent games yet, but that's all due to money.)

I wanted PW with Mega Man, Ryuu and Viewtiful Joe as the four Capcom reps.

That is a fantastic four and I am wholly on board. Great to see you! Also, when you can, play AA5. It's my favorite!

 

[Wyoming]

In an ideal world, Phoenix is added into smash and ace attorney gets the same amount of love as castlevania is getting (over 30 tracks, a stage, echo fighter, etc...).

30 tracks?!...
....

...



But if we went with 30 unique tracks, why not:

Objection! Trilogy Medley
Objection! 2018 Medley (Apollo, Athena, and Phoenix's themes)
Objection! 2011 (original)
Investigation - Core 2001 (original)
Investigation - Core 2007 (original)
Investigation - Core 2016 (original)
Courtroom Lobby Medley (2001, 2002, 2013 - includes "Suspense" segment)
Detention Center ~ Cold-Glass Elegy (remix)
Confess The Truth - The Great Ace Attorney
Reminiscence Medley (DL-6, Steel Samurai Ballad, Forgotten Legend)
Pursuit - Cornered (remix)
Pursuit - Caught (remix)
Pursuit - Cornering Together (original)
Confrontation - Presto 2009 (original)
Turnabout Sisters Ballad (original)
Psyche-Locks (remix)
Cross Examination Medley (2001, 2007, 2016)
Miles Edgeworth - Great Revival (remix)
The Fragrance of Dark Coffee (original)
Child of Magic (remix)
Apollo Justice - I'm Fine! (remix)
Steel Samurai (original)
Troupe Gramarye (remix)
Twisted Samurai (original)
Mood Matrix Medley
Assistant Medley (Turnabout Sisters 2002, The Great Yatagarasu, The Scientific Detective 2016)
Samurai With a Mission (original)
Guilty Love (remix)
Logic Chess - Endgame (original)
I can do it when it counts, Pal! (remix)

 

[NSSKG151]

I support Phoenix Wright for Smash. Just finished and enjoyed the original trilogy and while I do think it might be too late to see him on the base roster I do believe he has a good chance as DLC. Like some people already his stage would obviously be the courtroom.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Since the Grinch Leak seems to be fake (Emily Rogers, Vergeben and some others claim to have information contradicting the leak), I have hope that Phoenix Wright might get announced tomorrow. Please Sakurai, make our dreams come true!

 

[Wyoming]

Unless he was somehow kept under wraps all this time, his best shot is DLC.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Phoenix makes it in tomorrow and I might get arrested for disturbing the peace since I'll be screaming at 7 in the morning.

 

[Caladuz]

Never know, this could be our chance for the Ultimate Turnabout.

 

[Sonsa]

I don't expect any Ace Attorney for nowww, but umm...similar to the Mewtwo announcement in Smash 4, a great shot might be a lil DLC tease...? "That's all for now" "OBJECTION!" mayyybe? I dunno, I dunnooo...! Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno, and Banjo need to get in the game first, all them did great on the ballot I bet and their fans deseeerve it haha, I just hope lots of peoples' dreams come true and I get to be very happy for so many people tomorrow! If ouuur time comes wow...I'd be really surprised but that'd be...cool...!

 

[Caladuz]

Damn was waiting for an Objection! till the very end. Atleast phoenix has not been disconfirmed by being an AT.

 

[Sonsa]

That was...wow...uhhmm... I feel so bad for Isaac fans... they had everything going for them and then.....wow...also sorry for Skull Kid and Shadow fans, umm... so... DLC competition... We still have Geno, Banjo, and maybe uhh a cloud from Zelda or just about anything else to compete with since that adorable plant got in... Shame on me for trying to predict anything, I was really hoping this was finally the time where fan demand was a bigger priority than shock factor, but, nope, guess not, soooo...anything can happen! All we can do is hope I guess...

 

[Wyoming]

We're still alive bois!

With DLC announced this early I don't think they'll promote ATs and Rex sounded like a disconfirmation too. Our competition is greatly reduced and our chances are higher than ever to be among that first five.

All we can do is hope he was selected.

 

[Flyboy]

I have a feeling he might be on the shortlist. No matter what, I will support him to the end! After all, the only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over.

 

[Wyoming]

Piranha Plant (feels strange saying this...) also debunks any "how will he or she function?" testimonies about Phoenix.

Come on Capcom, throw us a bone. I will buy the fighter's pass just for him.

 

[lightdrago]

Well, now that I've got my most wanted, I'm advocating for Phoenix now, alongside others. Let's lawyer up!

 

[Wyoming]

A lawyer can only cry when it's all over, ey?

 

[Caladuz]

Well, now that I've got my most wanted, I'm advocating for Phoenix now, alongside others. Let's lawyer up!

Incineroar def going to be one of my mains, he looks so fun to play and with how hated he is, he is the ultimate heel. Speaking of which, anyone else feel that the rope summon could be repurposed for a desk slam?

I honestly feel optimistic about his DLC chances, moreso than before. Looking like a lot of competition has been deconfirmed (although I do feel for some of the other fanbases). No AA representation (from what I saw) not even as a sticker (although we don't know if this increases or decreases the likelihood for DLC yet) is fishy given how many other franchises are being represented this time around. Having 3 capcom characters might be a problem though, especially with Dante ready to swoop in at any time.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

I think most of the DLC-characters will be 3rd-parties. Phoenix Wright has a great chance being one of them, alongside with Banjo and Rayman.

 

[GoodGrief741]

After today I feel so pessimistic I feel like a cool pick like Phoenix has no chance for DLC. But I’m still here. I’m staying. And if the miracle doesn’t happen... well, I guess I’ll save myself 6 bucks.

 

[Wyoming]

I think the five characters are already decided on. If they are, he might have a leg to stand on here. It depends WHEN they made the call to include DLC. Based on the Rex costume's explanation it may have been as early as 2017.

 

[An Archie]

Although I actually think Phoenix might have a chance to be one of the DLC characters, he still has a lot of competition.
I also think that being a spirit doesn't necessarily deconfirm a character for DLC, since people have spotted that some fighters have spirits too like King K Rool and I think Mario (?). Meaning that characters like Skull Kid, Geno and Dixie Kong still have a chance (or at least I hope they do), and Phoenix has even more competition. All we can do is hope.

 

[fogbadge]

if pehonix has a spirits i wonder which character youd have to fight to get it

 

[Moydow]

if pehonix has a spirits i wonder which character youd have to fight to get it

Princess Peach:

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Skull Kid

Skull Kid is an Assist Trophy

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

It's nice to see this thread back up and running more frequently lately.

 

[An Archie]

Skull Kid is an Assist Trophy

Wow, I just checked the site, you're right! That's just... weird... Why didn't they show that in the direct?
Even so, I still think there's a lot of competition for DLC but Phoenix's chances have never been higher.


Phoenix's spirit would be a blue DK who defends a lot. Or King K Rool 'cause of his pointing stance in the key art.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

So let's recap our evidence, guys.

Sakurai states that DLC was deliberated and decided on back in 2015-2016.

We have photographic evidence of Sakurai meeting with Shu Takumi and Hideki Kamiya within that time.

And our boy Phoenix Wright dodged the assist trophy slaughter, the mii costume wave, and the potential (not guaranteed) Spirits finger snap.

He scored highly on the reddit poll tournament, and with a lot of the higher ranking competition down, he's reportedly in 5th place, taking them out of the equation.

With him would come a new stage as is tradition. And if the new Ace Attorney game is coming out next year, it could serve as the perfect advertising.

And with Ace Attorney coming to other platforms, it's going to become better well known.

IF and only if being a spirit deconfirms newcomers (and that's not a certainty) then a lot of his competition has been cut down. And even if that's not the case a lot of the BIG TIME challengers are down.

 

[Sonsa]

Things are heating up... Spirits aren't a strict deconfirm, but, it is a mode that celebrates many characters that would have gotten as far as trophies, characters that the team just didn't want to work on. Geno still has a shot, but with how brutal yesterday was for fans (I shed some tears for Isaac fans) I wouldn't want to get anyone's hopes up just to get crushed again.

So, treating Spirits as deconfirmation, the DLC competition could include:
- Banjo Kazooie
- Sora
- Rayman
- A Gen 8 Pokemon
- Bandanna Dee
- Crash Bandicoot
- Steve from Minecraft?
- And just about anyone/anything else because even a Piranha Plant made it...

I kinda wanna speculate but yeah, competition is kinda limitless...! But, based on the great evidence in the above, Phoenix does seem to have a better shot than ever...! And hey, cool music too!

I do think that Sakurai and the team could have a lot of fun being creative with his moveset~

 

[Handy Man]

Things are looking great for Phoenix Wright, I would love it if he was one of the five DLC fighters. With a courtroom stage, many great songs to choose from, and an echo fighter like Miles Edgeworth or Apollo Justice being included with Phoenix for free, Ace Attorney content in Smash would be very epic. Plus, the trilogy re-release next year could be great exposure for the franchise, and I would be surprised if Ace Attorney 7 was not in active development.

From here on out, all of my support for DLC will only be for Phoenix Wright. I love the Ace Attorney series so much; the games are among my favorites of all time. Ace Attorney deserves to break out of being a "niche" series and become as beloved as other Capcom games, like Mega Man and Monster Hunter. So many people would enjoy the Ace Attorney games if they knew about them, and Smash is a fantastic way to teach them about the series. Plus, it keeps interest in the Ace Attorney series high, creating more excitement for future games, as well as localizations potentially happening more often. Phoenix is also such a fun and loveable character, I love how he never gives up on anything no matter what odds he's stacked up against. Phoenix is such a relateable, goofy, and all-around great character.

Phoenix Wright becoming a DLC character is a real possibility, and one that would put me over the moon. The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over, and the journey to adding Phoenix Wright to Smash is only just beginning. Good luck to all of us!

 

[Wyoming]

Considering the pack specifically said 1 character, 1 stage, and multiple tracks that disconfirms Edgeworth and Apollo.

if Phoenix doesn't make it as DLC there's always next time! But for now just believe till the fat lady sings. If not, we still have a great roster.

 

[Caladuz]

Manage your expectations wisely though, based on what Vergeben has been saying recently (Square Enix rep + maybe Granblue and Minecraft). If true, it might be harder for Phoenix to secure a spot then we initially thought but I'll still hold up hope.