TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[Arctiq]

I'm dying for a good remix of Turnabout Sisters and the Steel Samurai theme. If they can make a bop out of Aria of the Soul then I'm really excited.

 

[Wyoming]

That leak is bogus. November 6th was a popular date that mentioned others like KOS-MOS in other "leaks". No 4chan text leak has known anything about DLC.

If Phoenix is number #5 we need to hope for a direct this month and/or TGA does not reveal anyone. As much as we love him, Phoenix makes no sense for a TGA reveal.

I guess the one "win" for us is that Sakurai busted the sales argument again. As long as the character is somewhat known, it all depends on whether or not Sakurai finds them fun to make. This is good and bad for us. As while we are technically closer to RE/Dante, we are also closer to Amaterasu/Morrigan/Viewitiful Joe as well.

Basically it all boils down to whether or not Sakurai picks Phoenix over others for his own factors. He has not commented on Capcom IPs outside of Street Fighter, so we can only assume things. I am hoping his friendship with Takumi means he played the ace attorney games and that he was engaged in them.

 

[Northadox]

Personally, there's no credible evidence for any leak involving Phoenix being real. I don't buy text leaks almost ever - gameplay is the thing I look for most, and, well, that one Mallow/Cacodemon Mii Costume one is the one I find the most potential truth in.
Here's how I think it's happening.
Doomguy and Geno are being co-developed. Doomguy will be announced in December at the TGAs and released sometime in January; around the same time, Geno will be unveiled and will release maybe in March. Either that or a dual reveal/release is possible. The Mii Costumes are a part of their respective packs.

If Phoenix is to happen, it won't be in the near future. It may be pessimistic, yes, but he's not one of the big boys. Considering that Phoenix probably won't be #5, let's all be greatful that we supported our corporate overlords enough for more DLC to happen and netting Nick a chance!

 

[Flyboy]

I actually had a dream that they added Phoenix to Smash but his name was "Wright" and he was weirdly serious in everything he did. I barely even remember his moveset. Also his stage was called "Wano - Endless Gate" and sort of resembled the mountain shrine from Trials & Tribulations. Weird because Wano is a place from One Piece. Anyway when you picked that stage you had to walk through a sidescrolling section a la Subspace to get to the actual match, and I woke up before I saw what that looked like.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I guess the one "win" for us is that Sakurai busted the sales argument again. As long as the character is somewhat known, it all depends on whether or not Sakurai finds them fun to make. This is good and bad for us. As while we are technically closer to RE/Dante, we are also closer to Amaterasu/Morrigan/Viewitiful Joe as well.

Eh, I wouldn't really put too much stakes on those 3 being too much competition. I think Sakurai words were meant to be taken in a vacuum.
Yes, Terry isn't the most well known character compared to the likes of Crash, Scorpion, Rayman, etc. But when looking at SNK alone, he's definitely their most recognizable face, and I think when restricting yourself to a company, you're likelier to pick one of the most recognizable and popular characters, probably look at how much of a legacy they have (in where Phoenix easily trumps Ammy, Morrigan and Joe). I'd say Morrigan in particular ain't looking good after Sakurais comment, she might not have her breasts bouncing everywhere like Mai, but the leotard is up a few notches in the lewd scale compared to, say, Bayo and Samus bodysuits.
I'm not entirely sure if they'd announce the last pass characters on TGA again, maybe it'd feel predictable at this point, but I agree Phoenix probably isn't the right character for such an event, a big western name or Leon/Dante would probably fit the mold better, but I also said they couldn't go 45 minutes just talking about Terry yesterday, so who knows.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Eh, I wouldn't really put too much stakes on those 3 being too much competition. I think Sakurai words were meant to be taken in a vacuum.
Yes, Terry isn't the most well known character compared to the likes of Crash, Scorpion, Rayman, etc. But when looking at SNK alone, he's definitely their most recognizable face, and I think when restricting yourself to a company, you're likelier to pick one of the most recognizable and popular characters, probably look at how much of a legacy they have (in where Phoenix easily trumps Ammy, Morrigan and Joe). I'd say Morrigan in particular ain't looking good after Sakurais comment, she might not have her breasts bouncing everywhere like Mai, but the leotard is up a few notches in the lewd scale compared to, say, Bayo and Samus bodysuits.
I'm not entirely sure if they'd announce the last pass characters on TGA again, maybe it'd feel predictable at this point, but I agree Phoenix probably isn't the right character for such an event, a big western name or Leon/Dante would probably fit the mold better, but I also said they couldn't go 45 minutes just talking about Terry yesterday, so who knows.

Well, that depends. Chun-Li and Cammy have leg emphasis as well, yet that didn't stop them from getting spirits. Wouldn't be too tough to adjust the leotard, since Morrigan's leg skin isn't shown at all due to her pantyhose/stockings.

In any case, nothing says we'll get a Capcom character next at the VGAs, it could be anyone. The one advantage we got is that AA7's announcement/reveal is still far off.

 

[JustMyself13]

That leak is bogus. November 6th was a popular date that mentioned others like KOS-MOS in other "leaks". No 4chan text leak has known anything about DLC.

If Phoenix is number #5 we need to hope for a direct this month and/or TGA does not reveal anyone. As much as we love him, Phoenix makes no sense for a TGA reveal.

I guess the one "win" for us is that Sakurai busted the sales argument again. As long as the character is somewhat known, it all depends on whether or not Sakurai finds them fun to make. This is good and bad for us. As while we are technically closer to RE/Dante, we are also closer to Amaterasu/Morrigan/Viewitiful Joe as well.

Basically it all boils down to whether or not Sakurai picks Phoenix over others for his own factors. He has not commented on Capcom IPs outside of Street Fighter, so we can only assume things. I am hoping his friendship with Takumi means he played the ace attorney games and that he was engaged in them.

Seeing at TGA is a western-centric event, I can definitely see Doomguy or Crash being revealed there. The only scenario I could see Phoenix at TGA is if his trailer is a direct continuation of Joker’s just to nicely loop everything back to where we started.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Well, that depends. Chun-Li and Cammy have leg emphasis as well, yet that didn't stop them from getting spirits. Wouldn't be too tough to adjust the leotard, since Morrigan's leg skin isn't shown at all due to her pantyhose/stockings.

In any case, nothing says we'll get a Capcom character next at the VGAs, it could be anyone. The one advantage we got is that AA7's announcement/reveal is still far off.

Spirits don't have the same problems a fully modeled fighter would though (besides that I don't find Chun too bad given her qipao and whatnot) but between Morrigan's leotard pretty clearly looking like a thong and the obvious amount of cleavage, that might be a little too much for Smash (remember Mythra and Camilla spirits were censored for that as well). I won't push much further given this doesn't relate much to Phoenix, but I feel Morrigan is more or less in the same realm as Mai for being "too sexy" for Smash (although that stilll makes me wonder how we even got Bayonetta in the first place).
This is a stretch, but maybe if they reveal a character at TGA, it could be related to one of the nominees? Like I imagine DMC5 and the RE2 remake will have a few of those, so if they win anything they might follow with a character from either series getting in (given that they were selected in the first place of course). I guess I'd just want Fighter #5 to be Capcom related to raise the chances for the company reps I'm pushing for, post FP it becomes unlikelier that they'd get 2 of them I feel.

 

[Leotsune]

Even if TGA is the perfect place to announce a character that is well-known here in the west, we must remember Joker was the very character shown last year, when Banjo, for example, would've made a better choice for an event like that one. I mean, a lot of people haven't even heard about Persona before that announcement (granted, that was kinda their way to tell us anyone is possible to join Smash).
While I think is very unlikely, I would say seeing Phoenix at TGA isn't out of the realm of possibility.

 

[UberPyro64]

Even if TGA is the perfect place to announce a character that is well-known here in the west, we must remember Joker was the very character shown last year, when Banjo, for example, would've made a better choice for an event like that one. I mean, a lot of people haven't even heard about Persona before that announcement (granted, that was kinda their way to tell us anyone is possible to join Smash).
While I think is very unlikely, I would say seeing Phoenix at TGA isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Remember, Persona 5 was a GOTY nominee the previous year. Persona 5 has done extraordinarily well in the west. Joker did fit the audience.

Though that's the least of his worries with other Capcom characters like Jill, Leon, and Dante existing. Maybe one day though.

 

[Lionfranky]

Remember, Persona 5 was a GOTY nominee the previous year. Persona 5 has done extraordinarily well in the west. Joker did fit the audience.

Though that's the least of his worries with other Capcom characters like Jill, Leon, and Dante existing. Maybe one day though.

If that's the case, Doom Slayer doesn't fit the bill because there is no Doom game this year to even be nominated.

As for the thread, Phoenix Wright has competition against Dante and Jill/Leon, right? It's good that Capcom has huge library with diverse characters, but that also makes it hard to choose.

 

[UberPyro64]

If that's the case, Doom Slayer doesn't fit the bill because there is no Doom game this year to even be nominated.

As for the thread, Phoenix Wright has competition against Dante and Jill/Leon, right? It's good that Capcom has huge library with diverse characters, but that also makes it hard to choose.

Doom was nominated for GOTY in 2016.

As for Capcom, Monster Hunter: World was nominated in 2018. Resident Evil 2 Remake is likely going to win GOTY this year. While Devil May Cry 5 has a good shot at being nominated.

 

[Lionfranky]

Doom was nominated for GOTY in 2016.

As for Capcom, Monster Hunter: World was nominated in 2018. Resident Evil 2 Remake is likely going to win GOTY this year. While Devil May Cry 5 has a good shot at being nominated.

Aren't we talking about how announcement should match the year of nomination?

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Aren't we talking about how announcement should match the year of nomination?

If that's the case, I don't think Joker made much sense given P5 was nominated in 2017.

 

[JustMyself13]

Sakurai said in November last year that all the reps for the pass were decided already, so it’s unlikely that the fifth fighter ties into the nominees, as there’s no way for him to have known what the games were.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Sakurai said in November last year that all the reps for the pass were decided already, so it’s unlikely that the fifth fighter ties into the nominees, as there’s no way for him to have known what the games were.

I should clarify, I don't think Sakurai/Nintendo would have chosen a character based on the nominees of this year (as you said they'd have no reliable way to know this), as much as maybe one of those candidates had the game nominated long after they were selected. So lets say we get Leon as the last fighter pass and RE2 happens to win GotY, after that they could wrap up the thing with his reveal. I don't think it's particularly likely, but just a possibility if we get any Smash news during TGA again.

 

[Arctiq]

Do y'all think it'll be possible to get the anime ops as remixes for Smash? They're such a bop, they'd fit really well in smash. I really want the first two ops if possible.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

pretty sure there's no chance they'll use music that doesn't originate from the games for any fighter, besides whatever licensing issues that might involve (probably no more than any track that has lyrics), there's too much iconic music from the games I imagine they'd consider before anything from different media (although FWIW, we got a remix from FEH in all its genericness over so many other choices they could have gone with FE).

 

[Caladuz]

Do y'all think it'll be possible to get the anime ops as remixes for Smash? They're such a bop, they'd fit really well in smash. I really want the first two ops if possible.

Unlikely, but no love for 3 and 4?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the biggest names aren't necessarily guaranteed to get in first for any release cycle.

Plus, as third-parties go, Sakurai has an easier time going after characters that might bring something interesting mechanically, and can prioritise those first.

 

[Arctiq]

Unlikely, but no love for 3 and 4?

Don't get me wrong, they're all bops. But if I had to choose the boppiest, definitely 1 and 2.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the biggest names aren't necessarily guaranteed to get in first for any release cycle.

Plus, as third-parties go, Sakurai has an easier time going after characters that might bring something interesting mechanically, and can prioritise those first.

It's definitely complicated, sales alone won't be the only factor behind character choices, but it can definitely help to know what's more popular overall. That's why I think Phoenix has a pretty good case of getting in despite RE and DMC being overall bigger series (MH too if you wanna count it, but I consider that out of the running at this point). I can't quite share that sentiment for most of the other Capcom reps I see mentioned here and there however.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, VJ and Ammy don't have much of a movement, but at least Kamiya got people to notice them in the same space as Dante, for that character poll of his. Even Darkstalkers has more of a fan movement than those two.

 

[Wyoming]

Morrigan's design is also problematic for Smash. Mai couldn't get in as a cameo, I doubt she'll appear in any way other than mii gears.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

You guys think they'd censor Mias cleavage if she appeared as a spirit? Haha.

 

[Leotsune]

You guys think they'd censor Mias cleavage if she appeared as a spirit? Haha.

Totally, they censored Mythra so of course they would've censored Mai.

 

[Sonsa]

Totally, they censored Mythra so of course they would've censored Mai.

Nah, not Mai, Mia, Mia Fey! I had that confusion too for a sec haha
And hmm, I dunno, is this fine? It seems fine! Right? It's not that big a deal, but I dunno how ratings work I guess. This seems like art they'd use, this or the trilogy but Mia's being a lil more coy in the trilogy art!

 

[Flyboy]

Nah, not Mai, Mia, Mia Fey! I had that confusion too for a sec haha
And hmm, I dunno, is this fine? It seems fine! Right? It's not that big a deal, but I dunno how ratings work I guess. This seems like art they'd use, this or the trilogy but Mia's being a lil more coy in the trilogy art!

As long as they cut her before the skirt ends I don't see why this wouldn't be fine. CERO specifically hates upskirts.

 

[Calamitas]

Nah, not Mai, Mia, Mia Fey! I had that confusion too for a sec haha
And hmm, I dunno, is this fine? It seems fine! Right? It's not that big a deal, but I dunno how ratings work I guess. This seems like art they'd use, this or the trilogy but Mia's being a lil more coy in the trilogy art!

I doubt that that artwork would be fine. After all, with Camilla (the one from Fire Emblem Fates), they did edit her artwork so that her cleavage. . . and left everything else about her outfit intact.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

When I think of Ace attorney music for smash the best way I could see it fitting in would be to make them medleys, since the sings in this series are already so short in length this would make sense.

Something like:

1: "Ace Attorney Medley"
2: "Justice for all medley"
3: "Trials and tribulations medley"
4: "Apollo justice medley"
5: "Dual destinies medley"
6: "Spirit of justice medley"
7: "investigations medley"
8: "investigations 2 medley
9: "Dai gyakuten saiban medley"
10: "Turnabout sisters/Child of Magic"
11: "Cross examination medley"

 

[Arctiq]

When I think of Ace attorney music for smash the best way I could see it fitting in would be to make them medleys, since the sings in this series are already so short in length this would make sense.

Something like:

1: "Ace Attorney Medley"
2: "Justice for all medley"
3: "Trials and tribulations medley"
4: "Apollo justice medley"
5: "Dual destinies medley"
6: "Spirit of justice medley"
7: "investigations medley"
8: "investigations 2 medley
9: "Dai gyakuten saiban medley"
10: "Turnabout sisters/Child of Magic"
11: "Cross examination medley"

While that would be a good idea, I think it would be better to have individual remixes for songs. There could be medleys for cross examination songs, but songs like Turnabout Sisters, Steel Samurai, Child of Magic, etc. really stand better on their own.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I do wonder how likely it is that we'd get tracks from Investigations 2 or the DGS games, it's probably not a big deal that those weren't localized given we got a remix from FE Gaiden before we even knew what the 3DS was, but I imagine they'd push further the music from the games the whole world if familiar with over the rest. I might make a list of hopeful inclusions at some point, but it's a hard task given how good AA music usually is, yet how not that many of it might feel appropiate for a game as fast paced as Smash?

 

[Leotsune]

I do wonder how likely it is that we'd get tracks from Investigations 2 or the DGS games, it's probably not a big deal that those weren't localized given we got a remix from FE Gaiden before we even knew what the 3DS was, but I imagine they'd push further the music from the games the whole world if familiar with over the rest. I might make a list of hopeful inclusions at some point, but it's a hard task given how good AA music usually is, yet how not that many of it might feel appropiate for a game as fast paced as Smash?

I think is pretty safe to say we'd get music from AAI2 and DGS, at the very least the pursuit themes.
Those game have some of the best tracks in the whole AA franchise so I don't think they would let that opportunity go to waste.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I think is pretty safe to say we'd get music from AAI2 and DGS, at the very least the pursuit themes.
Those game have some of the best tracks in the whole AA franchise so I don't think they would let that opportunity go to waste.

Agreed on MEI2 music being some of the best in the series, that whole game is just something else.
Onto different news (spoilers just in case)

Spoiler

Sabi has mentioned their sources say fighter 5 ain't Doom Slayer or Geno, while this doesn't disconfirm the mii costumes shown, it might mean they're meant to drop later (why they're already being tested is beyond my knowledge). Between that and them already saying no Ryu or Crash, I'm starting to believe our last pass character is very likely a Capcom one (I'd have said Namco as well but I'm starting to believe more Heihachi isn't happening with the complications of integrating Tekken mechanics to Smash and his voice actors passing, with Lloyd and a DS rep being in a somewhat awkward spot imo). At the very least, I can't think of any other big western rep that'd make more sense for Smash than those already mentioned (I suppose you could say MK but with the main point of that being the violence I'm not sure if they could translate it well into Smash and keep an E rating, maybe if they take note of the Injustice incarnation of the characters? disregard this part as apparently Verge already said no Scorpion for FP5) and with Koei likeliest rep already getting the no from the most consistent leakers for Ultimate, most of the currently unrepped japanese devs feel like small fries in comparison to what we already have.
I suppose I should clarify to take this with a grain of salt, but for some reason, disconfirmations like these feel more trustworthy than saying "x character is the next fighter!"

 

[Arctiq]

Agreed on MEI2 music being some of the best in the series, that whole game is just something else.
Onto different news (spoilers just in case)

Spoiler

Sabi has mentioned their sources say fighter 5 ain't Doom Slayer or Geno, while this doesn't disconfirm the mii costumes shown, it might mean they're meant to drop later (why they're already being tested is beyond my knowledge). Between that and them already saying no Ryu or Crash, I'm starting to believe our last pass character is very likely a Capcom one (I'd have said Namco as well but I'm starting to believe more Heihachi isn't happening with the complications of integrating Tekken mechanics to Smash and his voice actors passing, with Lloyd and a DS rep being in a somewhat awkward spot imo). At the very least, I can't think of any other big western rep that'd make more sense for Smash than those already mentioned (I suppose you could say MK but with the main point of that being the violence I'm not sure if they could translate it well into Smash and keep an E rating, maybe if they take note of the Injustice incarnation of the characters? disregard this part as apparently Verge already said no Scorpion for FP5) and with Koei likeliest rep already getting the no from the most consistent leakers for Ultimate, most of the currently unrepped japanese devs feel like small fries in comparison to what we already have.
I suppose I should clarify to take this with a grain of salt, but for some reason, disconfirmations like these feel more trustworthy than saying "x character is the next fighter!"

Spoiler

The only other realistic Namco rep I can see is Klonoa to be honest. Other than that, Nick has a very high chance now.

 

[JustMyself13]

I really think it’s a race between Resident Evil and Ace Attorney at this point. Monster Hunter is represented already, Dante was soft deconfirmed for this pass, and every other option seems to be from a dormant series, which didn’t stop Banjo, but might not be fit for a reveal at TGA.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I do wonder how likely it is that we'd get tracks from Investigations 2 or the DGS games, it's probably not a big deal that those weren't localized given we got a remix from FE Gaiden before we even knew what the 3DS was, but I imagine they'd push further the music from the games the whole world if familiar with over the rest. I might make a list of hopeful inclusions at some point, but it's a hard task given how good AA music usually is, yet how not that many of it might feel appropiate for a game as fast paced as Smash?

Dai gyakuten saiban has my favorite music in the series, let me dream lol

 

[Jomosensual]

I really think it’s a race between Resident Evil and Ace Attorney at this point. Monster Hunter is represented already, Dante was soft deconfirmed for this pass, and every other option seems to be from a dormant series, which didn’t stop Banjo, but might not be fit for a reveal at TGA.

Agreed, although i think Dante is a major player if a Capcom rep falls to post pass DLC

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Spoiler

The only other realistic Namco rep I can see is Klonoa to be honest. Other than that, Nick has a very high chance now.

High disagree on Klonoa being likely even as a cameo, but I won't derail given how little relationship that has with Phoenix.

I really think it’s a race between Resident Evil and Ace Attorney at this point. Monster Hunter is represented already, Dante was soft deconfirmed for this pass, and every other option seems to be from a dormant series, which didn’t stop Banjo, but might not be fit for a reveal at TGA.

I think the difference between Banjo and those dormant series is how much of a push he had vs...is the demand for Arthur, Viewtiful Joe, Ammy or Morrigan really anything significant? You can only get so much from internet polls and discussions, but neither of those series are huge commercial successes or super active, only one you can maybe make a case for is Okami as at least that was highly praised at its release, but that alone doesn't feel enough for Ammy having a good case in her favor (much as I'd personally like her).
I wouldn't count Dante out of the running for a TGA announcement given how well received DMC5 was and how quickly a Switch port of the first game was announced after the directors comment on being playable in Smash Bros, but if that is a no I don't see much competition for Leon for a reveal in that event. I don't really think Phoenix would be TGA material, between the lack of new games, visual novels being fairly niche and I think the series never got a nominee for these things? It just feels like the wrong place and time for such a character, imo.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So, signs are pointing to a fighter that has two characters kind of like Icies, and obviously I couldn't help but think about the lawyer and his assistant. What do you think?