TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[MissingGlitch]

True. Another thing I'm sort of banking on is Capcom's financial sense - Resident Evil is already their best selling series. Better than Street Fighter. Better than Mega Man. Smash is seen as not only a celebration of already-popular series, but also as a potential way to draw attention to series that aren't as popular. People on the Banjo side of things are already talking about how Banjo's inclusion in Smash might lead to a franchise revival down the line, if the response to his Smash presence is positive enough. Does Capcom need to call attention to Resident Evil? Do they really? It's already ludicrously well-known, and its sales are obscene compared even to Monster Hunter.

You could say that that improves its chances, and you'd have a point, but here's the thing - Resident Evil's sales and recognizability are in perfect harmony. Everyone and their mother knows RE, and everyone and their mother buys it. Never mind that two series with more significance to Nintendo - SF and Mega Man - got in over their best-selling series. Everyone and their mother has heard of Phoenix Wright... but the sales don't match up. I think there's a real chance that Capcom tries to remedy this, if only Nintendo/Sakurai are willing to approach them with that opportunity. PW has a lot going for it, and the recent multi-platform ports, the running rumors of a new mainline entry for the Switch, and the statements by Capcom that they're thinking about where to go next with the series in conjunction with their statements that they purposely made Spirit of Justice's ending open enough to go in as many directions as possible... I think they might want to try really pushing Ace Attorney.

Time will tell, but I really, really think there's a chance.

I think we also need to consider that Ace Attorney's primary audience is in Japan. They always have special events like concerts. They currently have an anime running. They even have some exclusive games in the series. The games don't sell that well over here and they aren't marketed that well. However there is still a decent audience for it over here. A smash appearance might be the marketing push they need to get Ace Attorney successful in the west. Sound familiar?

 

[Flyboy]

I think we also need to consider that Ace Attorney's primary audience is in Japan. They always have special events like concerts. They currently have an anime running. They even have some exclusive games in the series. The games don't sell that well over here and they aren't marketed that well. However there is still a decent audience for it over here. A smash appearance might be the marketing push they need to get Ace Attorney successful in the west. Sound familiar?
View attachment 227796

Plus, Ace Attorney is very popular with women - and Nintendo has stated in investors meetings they're trying to get new demographics into Smash. DQ has a 50/50 demo split in Japan.

I really feel like it's possible.

 

[MissingGlitch]

So question for all of you. Would you prefer Phoenix have alt skins of outfits he wore in game. Or would you prefer The Hero approach and have his alt skins be different characters. If you want it to be different characters, what characters would you pick as Alt skins?

I only ask because it doesn't look like fighter pass characters are going to get echos. So I want to see if people prefer having more representation of characters in the form of skins or just the one character.

 

[Wyoming]

So question for all of you. Would you prefer Phoenix have alt skins of outfits he wore in game. Or would you prefer The Hero approach and have his alt skins be different characters. If you want it to be different characters, what characters would you pick as Alt skins?

None of the characters really fit as alts. Even Edgeworth who shares elements and physique has a totally different personality that needs to be represented well. I think people forget that alts share taunts, expressions, and movement. I do not see anyone doing Phoenix's mannerisms.

I would prefer color palettes based on his friends and adversaries throughout the series.

 

[TemporalShrew]

So question for all of you. Would you prefer Phoenix have alt skins of outfits he wore in game. Or would you prefer The Hero approach and have his alt skins be different characters. If you want it to be different characters, what characters would you pick as Alt skins?

I'd really prefer we keep Phoenix... Phoenix, personally. Different characters as alts work for characters who don't really have extraordinarily different personalities, like the Hero or the Koopalings, but every character in Ace Attorney has their own colorful personality, and I feel like if they attempted to condense more than one of them into Phoenix, they would dilute the individuality of all of them. Different Phoenix looks and homage alt-colors would be lovely.

And instead of alts, other major characters could be integrated into his stage - his stage would naturally be the court room, after all. Apollo and/or Athena could be portrayed in the background, battling one of the many different prosecutors, which would change from match to match. Hell, they could even throw in Canadian Judge in place of Udgey once in a while.

 

[Flyboy]

New trilogy as the default, classic as a skin, and then colored alts based on Apollo, Athena, Edgeworth, and others, and then a Hobo and Feenie bonus alts.

 

[TemporalShrew]

Also, I apologize for being sort of a new arrival in this thread, and therefore not knowing who's who too well. But I came across this a while back and was about to post it for discussion fuel and I recognized a name - Sonsa , is this video right here you? Because if not, whoops! It's great. And if so, neat! It's great!

 

[GoodGrief741]

So question for all of you. Would you prefer Phoenix have alt skins of outfits he wore in game. Or would you prefer The Hero approach and have his alt skins be different characters. If you want it to be different characters, what characters would you pick as Alt skins?

I only ask because it doesn't look like fighter pass characters are going to get echos. So I want to see if people prefer having more representation of characters in the form of skins or just the one character.

I don't like different characters as alts, I prefer them to be Echoes. To me adding a character as an alt is a killer, because it disconfirms them from fighter for no reason. (Still bitter about Alph, that would have been the easiest Echo)

Plus Phoenix has many costumes that would make for great alts like Feenie, Hobo, and Old Man Phoenix.

 

[Sonsa]

Also, I apologize for being sort of a new arrival in this thread, and therefore not knowing who's who too well. But I came across this a while back and was about to post it for discussion fuel and I recognized a name - Sonsa , is this video right here you? Because if not, whoops! It's great. And if so, neat! It's great!

Ayy, yup, that's me, no need to apologize for being new pwsh, but hey thanks so much! I appreciate it a bunch, and hey, if there's anything about it you wanna discuss, go ahead! Maybe a move ya wanna alter, or music I didn't mention that's gatta show up, I'm down for anything!

 

[MissingGlitch]

I am curious what his final smash would be. I always thought if it as a cutscene final smash where the Judge becomes really big and slams the gavel on the fighters.

 

[Sonsa]

I am curious what his final smash would be.

Ooh, well there's multiple things like...

Spoiler

Having Maya summon Mia and do the slow-mo Trials&Tribulations point with Phoenix

or, something like what I "animated" over here! A fast-paced courtroom back and forth that ends with a big gavel slam! https://youtu.be/ybB1fpE8maY?t=1504

 

[MissingGlitch]

Ooh, well there's multiple things like...

Spoiler

Having Maya summon Mia and do the slow-mo Trials&Tribulations point with Phoenix

or, something like what I "animated" over here! A fast-paced courtroom back and forth that ends with a big gavel slam! https://youtu.be/ybB1fpE8maY?t=1504

That is really cool. Nice job!

 

[Wyoming]

I envisioned the triple objection in Dual Destinies finale, non-DLC case. Get some post-trilogy love.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I envisioned the triple objection in Dual Destinies finale, non-DLC case. Get some post-trilogy love.

If anyone is going to give a character the love it deserves. It's Sakurai. Unlike Capcom I'm sure Sakurai will try and references games that aren't just the first three.

 

[DutchPichu]

Well, after Banjo made it in, I searched for a new thread to be. I think Phoenix would be nice, would add a unique moveset to Smash, and would not be out of reason. We haven't had a Capcom character this DLC pass, although I think that the custome thoery isn't necessarily true. I think Phoenix will be character #4 and DOOM Marine will be character #5.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Well, after Banjo made it in, I searched for a new thread to be. I think Phoenix would be nice, would add a unique moveset to Smash, and would not be out of reason. We haven't had a Capcom character this DLC pass, although I think that the custome thoery isn't necessarily true. I think Phoenix will be character #4 and DOOM Marine will be character #5.

Welcome! I hope that this thread becomes a lot more active in the next couple weeks due to the fact not everyone is completely focused on a Microsoft and SE character anymore. Talks are revving up on a potential Capcom and Namco rep due to the costume theory. Meaning that might pull a lot more people into this thread as people start getting more vocal about what Capcom rep they want.

 

[fogbadge]

you know if phoenix didnt have good defence in battle something's amiss

hang on thats how you make the edgeworth echo different, nick has better defence edgeworth has better offence

 

[3BitSaurus]

I am curious what his final smash would be. I always thought if it as a cutscene final smash where the Judge becomes really big and slams the gavel on the fighters.

Personally, I really like his level 3 hyper from UMvC3. Phoenix proving his opponent is guilty through a cinematic Final Smash sounds really good to me. Maybe do a Megaman and Hero and include Apollo and Athena as well?

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

If Phoenix DOES get it: Do you think they might get inspiration from crossovers and implement Maya in his moveset? Seems like the general consceus is that wherever Phoenix goes, Maya follows (UMVC3, PxZ2). And this is without factoring the "Companion Theory".

 

[DutchPichu]

If Phoenix DOES get it: Do you think they might get inspiration from crossovers and implement Maya in his moveset? Seems like the general consceus is that wherever Phoenix goes, Maya follows (UMVC3, PxZ2). And this is without factoring the "Companion Theory".

What is the "Companion Theory"?

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

What is the "Companion Theory"?

Basically: The new fighters are always featured with another entity in the Smash mural.
- Piranha Plant had a Pikin
- Joker had Morgana
- Hero had Slime
- And Banjo had Kazooie (granted both of them are the stars, so it may be a stretch)

The theory is basically: That the next two characters may come with another character whether as part of their moveset, taunt, or is a mascot character that could be featured alongside them in the mural. In Phoenix's case: It's possible to have him featured with Maya considering how the two are practically inseparable in crossover appearances.

 

[3BitSaurus]

If Phoenix DOES get it: Do you think they might get inspiration from crossovers and implement Maya in his moveset? Seems like the general consceus is that wherever Phoenix goes, Maya follows (UMVC3, PxZ2). And this is without factoring the "Companion Theory".

I think she should actually be part of his gameplay. I'd argue that Maya is more akin to what Kazooie is to Banjo than what Morgana and Slime are for Joker and Hero. Maybe she could help him with grabs like the Toads? Shield him like in MvC? Maybe one oh his specials should be dedicated to an action invloving her.

One thing: I know Phoenix probably wouldn't have the same gimmick he did in MvC, but I sure would love Turnabout Mode. It was so satisfying. Imagine "Cornered" kicking in when you get it, but instead of the "hip" MvC remix, it's an orchestral one.

 

[fogbadge]

Basically: The new fighters are always featured with another entity in the Smash mural.
- Piranha Plant had a Pikin
- Joker had Morgana
- Hero had Slime
- And Banjo had Kazooie (granted both of them are the stars, so it may be a stretch)

The theory is basically: That the next two characters may come with another character whether as part of their moveset, taunt, or is a mascot character that could be featured alongside them in the mural. In Phoenix's case: It's possible to have him featured with Maya considering how the two are practically inseparable in crossover appearances.

ooh phoenix and maya in a similar pose to the cover of the first game would look great on the mural

 

[Deleted member]

Crash thankfully fits the companion theory too thanks to Aku Aku.

Would be cool to see him and Wright in Smash alongside Samus and Eight.

 

[MissingGlitch]

So we have the rainbow theory, partner theory, and costume theory. Which all Nick could fit into.

 

[An Archie]

I hate to be negative given the amount of enthusiasm in this thread of late but...
I feel like the latest reveals kind of hurt Phoenix's chances of getting in. I mean, so far, the characters revealed as DLC are Joker, The Hero and Banjo-Kazooie. Each of these characters were either heavily requested or the star of an extremely popular game/series. What I'm saying is I'm worried Phoenix won't live up to the hype or the tone that the other characters have left...
Then again there aren't many megaton characters left to be chosen as DLC, so maybe he could still make it in.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So we have the rainbow theory, partner theory, and costume theory. Which all Nick could fit into.

GOD, I love so much that the Square and Microsoft character reveals are done. See, now speculation is actually generating new stuff instead of the same two character debates for 6 months.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I hate to be negative given the amount of enthusiasm in this thread of late but...
I feel like the latest reveals kind of hurt Phoenix's chances of getting in. I mean, so far, the characters revealed as DLC are Joker, The Hero and Banjo-Kazooie. Each of these characters were either heavily requested or the star of an extremely popular game/series. What I'm saying is I'm worried Phoenix won't live up to the hype or the tone that the other characters have left...
Then again there aren't many megaton characters left to be chosen as DLC, so maybe he could still make it in.

I never understood where all this “everyone was asking for Joker before his reveal” came from. Like I never saw any speculation that Joker could possibly get in and then his trailer happened . Suddenly everyone acted like he was in their top 5 lists of most wanted characters. Joker is cool don’t get me wrong. But his smash popularity only sparked after the reveal. Also remember smash tends to always start with the heavy hitters for reveals, The last reveals for Base game were Isabelle, Ken, and Inciniroar. Nick also tends to be in the top 15 in fans polls. Which is impressive honestly when he is fighting against a bunch more popular characters. There is still a bit of demand for him so I know his reveal will bring along hype.

 

[Flyboy]

Phoenix placed highly in every single attempt at tabulating the ballot there has ever been. It's not impossible that he's made some noise.

 

[Curious Villager]

I hate to be negative given the amount of enthusiasm in this thread of late but...
I feel like the latest reveals kind of hurt Phoenix's chances of getting in. I mean, so far, the characters revealed as DLC are Joker, The Hero and Banjo-Kazooie. Each of these characters were either heavily requested or the star of an extremely popular game/series. What I'm saying is I'm worried Phoenix won't live up to the hype or the tone that the other characters have left...
Then again there aren't many megaton characters left to be chosen as DLC, so maybe he could still make it in.

Smash isn't exactly known to "save the best for last" so I kinda doubt they have anything that would be more universally hype than Banjo or Hero (for Japan at least)
They usually reveal their heavy hitters either first or in the middle. So the last reveals will probably be something a bit more niche, but still popular.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

So we have the rainbow theory, partner theory, and costume theory. Which all Nick could fit into.

What is the costume theory, if I may ask?

EDIT: Nvm, you were talking about Mii Costumes I think.

 

[Flyboy]

I never understood where all this “everyone was asking for Joker before his reveal” came from. Like I never saw any speculation that Joker could possibly get in and then his trailer happened . Suddenly everyone acted like he was in their top 5 lists of most wanted characters. Also remember smash tends to always start with the heavy hitters for reveals, The last reveals for Base game were Isabelle, Ken, and Inciniroar. Nick also tends to be in the top 15 in fans polls. Which is impressive honestly when he is fighting against a bunch more popular characters. There is still a bit of demand for him so I know his reveal will bring along hype.

As a regular of the Joker thread leading up to his reveal no one thought he'd even get in. We we're constantly beset with people calling us delusional. Part of what made it so sweet was how vitriolic people got towards us despite us being a chill fandom who wanted to have fun even considering him and how we won in the end.

Anyone pretending they were supporting him before TGA or even thought he'd get in are clowns. There were like five of us active at any given point and even we didn't think it'd happen. It was more "oh well that's be amazing but it's never happening...".

 

[MissingGlitch]

As a regular of the Joker thread leading up to his reveal no one thought he'd even get in. We we're constantly beset with people calling us delusional. Part of what made it so sweet was how vitriolic people got towards us despite us being a chill fandom who wanted to have fun even considering him and how we won in the end.

Anyone pretending they were supporting him before TGA or even thought he'd get in are clowns. There were like five of us active at any given point and even we didn't think it'd happen. It was more "oh well that's be amazing but it's never happening...".

I guess if there is something all fandoms share. It’s being called delusional. Kinda like this thread I suppose. This thread has been up more then a year and we are only on page 32. I didn’t realize people came into your thread and treated you guys badly. I am sorry to hear that.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I never understood where all this “everyone was asking for Joker before his reveal” came from. Like I never saw any speculation that Joker could possibly get in and then his trailer happened . Suddenly everyone acted like he was in their top 5 lists of most wanted characters. Joker is cool don’t get me wrong. But his smash popularity only sparked after the reveal. Also remember smash tends to always start with the heavy hitters for reveals, The last reveals for Base game were Isabelle, Ken, and Inciniroar. Nick also tends to be in the top 15 in fans polls. Which is impressive honestly when he is fighting against a bunch more popular characters. There is still a bit of demand for him so I know his reveal will bring along hype.

As a regular of the Joker thread leading up to his reveal no one thought he'd even get in. We we're constantly beset with people calling us delusional. Part of what made it so sweet was how vitriolic people got towards us despite us being a chill fandom who wanted to have fun even considering him and how we won in the end.

Anyone pretending they were supporting him before TGA or even thought he'd get in are clowns. There were like five of us active at any given point and even we didn't think it'd happen. It was more "oh well that's be amazing but it's never happening...".

Joker was literally "the character some people wanted and everyone else thought was impossible until it happened" for this DLC. I feel he was a lot like Cloud in a way - sure, more people wanted Cloud back then, but the Smash fandom thought about him in a similar manner.

Maybe another good comparison would be how people saw Sora pre-Cloud. His support was drastically lower than it is now, because everyone thought it was a pipe dream. Now that he's taken seriously as a contender, everyone forgot about those doubts.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Joker was literally "the character some people wanted and everyone else thought was impossible until it happened" for this DLC. I feel he was a lot like Cloud in a way - sure, more people wanted Cloud back then, but the Smash fandom thought about him in a similar manner.

Maybe another good comparison would be how people saw Sora pre-Cloud. His support was drastically lower than it is now, because everyone thought it was a pipe dream. Now that he's taken seriously as a contender, everyone forgot about those doubts.

I thought Sora was always pretty high up in fan demand? The more you know I guess. Sorry if I came off as hating Joker. That wasn’t my intention. But I guess I just stick my self into bubbles of characters I want so I don’t see what is happening for other characters.

 

[Sonsa]

I'm also worried Phoenix isn't a big enough deal, but I don't know, I feel more sure about it than ever personally! Maybe my hopes have just gotten too high, but...while I don't think we'd get as many tears as Banjo, the reaction to Phoenix may be better than Dragon Quest's? Many cheered and many sighed over another swordsman... I think Phoenix would get a reaction somewhere in the middle? He definitely isn't a Fire Emblem-ish swordsman, I think many would be interested and even laugh at the unique moves in his trailer, I'm guessing the overall reaction would be: "Haha, uhhh, OKAY, sure!! Looks fun!"

Also, I'm probably being naive, but I don't see a lot of threatening competition! Master Chief was deconfirmed in a recent interview, as well as any other Microsoft character I'd bet https://kotaku.com/xbox-boss-phil-spencer-says-banjo-in-smash-was-an-easy-1835418742 I think the Kamiya poll deconfirms any character there (Dante, Amaterasu, Wonder Red), Sakurai basically equated Waddle Dee to Baby Peach http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/ Isaac and Waluigi are out, umm...

Like, at this point, who's left to put in? Maybe Sora still has a shot, he'd be a great choice, maybe Crash? People mention the guy from Doom, doesn't seem like he'd be at home with Smash but hey maybe. I still think Phoenix has a better shot than him though...and Crash... And we chatted bout Resident Evil, sure, there's a threat, but I still feel if it's any Capcom character, it's Phoenix.

But hey, who really is Phoenix's competition, who's left? Cause all I can think of is like...Sora and um.........yeah

 

[Wyoming]

I doubt that the next two characters will be as hype as Hero (for Japan) and Banjo (long-tine demand). Smash 4 also followed Ryu - the grandfather of fighting games - with Corrin and Bayonetta. Bayonetta strikes me as similar to Phoenix: people know they exist, but may not have played their games yet.

 

[Flyboy]

I'm also worried Phoenix isn't a big enough deal, but I don't know, I feel more sure about it than ever personally! Maybe my hopes have just gotten too high, but...while I don't think we'd get as many tears as Banjo, the reaction to Phoenix may be better than Dragon Quest's? Many cheered and many sighed over another swordsman... I think Phoenix would get a reaction somewhere in the middle? He definitely isn't a Fire Emblem-ish swordsman, I think many would be interested and even laugh at the unique moves in his trailer, I'm guessing the overall reaction would be: "Haha, uhhh, OKAY, sure!! Looks fun!"

Also, I'm probably being naive, but I don't see a lot of threatening competition! Master Chief was deconfirmed in a recent interview, as well as any other Microsoft character I'd bet https://kotaku.com/xbox-boss-phil-spencer-says-banjo-in-smash-was-an-easy-1835418742 I think the Kamiya poll deconfirms any character there (Dante, Amaterasu, Wonder Red), Sakurai basically equated Waddle Dee to Baby Peach http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/ Isaac and Waluigi are out, umm...

Like, at this point, who's left to put in? Maybe Sora still has a shot, he'd be a great choice, maybe Crash? People mention the guy from Doom, doesn't seem like he'd be at home with Smash but hey maybe. I still think Phoenix has a better shot than him though...and Crash... And we chatted bout Resident Evil, sure, there's a threat, but I still feel if it's any Capcom character, it's Phoenix.

But hey, who really is Phoenix's competition, who's left? Cause all I can think of is like...Sora and um.........yeah

Ironically I feel his biggest competition outside of Resident Evil is Professor Layton himself. Layton and Nick are both popular DS era icons and puzzle/adventure icons that share a similar demographic. I'd love both and if I had to pick I'd go with Phoenix of course but if Layton is next it probably spells doom. But again, much like Leon or Jill, I'd accept that defeat graciously as Layton has earned it just as much as Phoenix in my eye. But I still pray for that dual reveal.

By the way I finally watched your video! Super funny and fun, and great moveset!

 

[3BitSaurus]

I thought Sora was always pretty high up in fan demand? The more you know I guess. Sorry if I came off as hating Joker. That wasn’t my intention. But I guess I just stick my self into bubbles of characters I want so I don’t see what is happening for other characters.

During the Ballot, he was, but when you go way back (like Smash 4 base roster or even Brawl)... not so much as he is today. I do think it was more than Joker though, if memory serves.

Like... he ranked relatively high (20s or 30s, if I recall), but now he practically dominates polls. I don't remember him being consistently top 5 before Cloud.

Sakurai basically equated Waddle Dee to Baby Peach

...and yet we got Piranha Plant. I think he was just messing around.

But hey, who really is Phoenix's competition, who's left? Cause all I can think of is like...Sora and um.........yeah

Resident Evil is arguably Phoenix's biggest obstacle inside Capcom, but that's it. When it comes to his genre, he seems more notorious than Layton (not ******** on Layton or anything) and has a potentially unique playstyle, not to mention a following. These things catch Sakurai's eye.

 

[Wyoming]

I'm also worried Phoenix isn't a big enough deal, but I don't know, I feel more sure about it than ever personally! Maybe my hopes have just gotten too high, but...while I don't think we'd get as many tears as Banjo, the reaction to Phoenix may be better than Dragon Quest's? Many cheered and many sighed over another swordsman... I think Phoenix would get a reaction somewhere in the middle? He definitely isn't a Fire Emblem-ish swordsman, I think many would be interested and even laugh at the unique moves in his trailer, I'm guessing the overall reaction would be: "Haha, uhhh, OKAY, sure!! Looks fun!"

Also, I'm probably being naive, but I don't see a lot of threatening competition! Master Chief was deconfirmed in a recent interview, as well as any other Microsoft character I'd bet https://kotaku.com/xbox-boss-phil-spencer-says-banjo-in-smash-was-an-easy-1835418742 I think the Kamiya poll deconfirms any character there (Dante, Amaterasu, Wonder Red), Sakurai basically equated Waddle Dee to Baby Peach http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/ Isaac and Waluigi are out, umm...

Like, at this point, who's left to put in? Maybe Sora still has a shot, he'd be a great choice, maybe Crash? People mention the guy from Doom, doesn't seem like he'd be at home with Smash but hey maybe. I still think Phoenix has a better shot than him though...and Crash... And we chatted bout Resident Evil, sure, there's a threat, but I still feel if it's any Capcom character, it's Phoenix.

But hey, who really is Phoenix's competition, who's left? Cause all I can think of is like...Sora and um.........yeah

I doubt any company is getting two characters in this pass, no matter how different their series may be. Square have a 4-in-1 choice and I think that is that for them. If Microsoft had two characters I think they both would have been at E3.

I personally consider Sora, 2B, Lara Croft, Steve, and Sephiroth to be out of the running.

Phoenix's main competitors are Resident Evil and Professor Layton. Although unlike the former, I think there is a small chance he can come with the latter.