TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[TheYungLink]

I'm a big Ace Attorney fan, but I never ventured into here because, when it came to Capcom characters, I've always felt that after Mega Man and Street Fighter, Resident Evil should be the next series with a playable character. This has only been exacerbated with Joker proving that Bayonetta wasn't an exception and thus more fighters with guns can be included down the road.

That said, I've decided that it's never too late to hold out hope. I'd like to be put down as a supporter. Between Resident Evil and Ace Attorney, I have a far stronger attachment to the latter series (I've only dabbled in Mega Man and Street Fighter, neither of them jive with me) but either way I'd like at least one Capcom character included that I personally care about.

I finished The Great Ace Attorney the other day, and was curious to see if anyone here was talking about it, surprised barely anyone was, though given the hassle to emulate it to apply the fan translation, it's understandable to an extent.

For reference, I've completed every Ace Attorney game (including AAI2) except for the Professor Layton crossover as well as Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2. I have also avoided seeing any Let's Plays or uncommentated playthroughs of those games.

 

[fogbadge]

or reference, I've completed every Ace Attorney game (including AAI2) except for the Professor Layton

you should play it its awesome

 

[TheYungLink]

I've played enough Prof. Layton to know I can't quite enjoy it the way others seem to. So I don't think I'd get much out of the crossover.

 

[Sonsa]

Heyooo, I goofed around and finally finished a big vid on my ideas for Phoenix in Smash! I ramble a looot, but hey, if anyone's still wondering about a possible moveset or whatever else, maybe this could help! There's timestamps in the description if one's looking for anything specific like Spirit Battles or Boxing Ring Titles!

 

[Roberk]

I bought the Ace Attorney Trilogy for Switch and I just beat the first game. I was really charmed by it, and now Phoenix is one of my most wanted. Just wanted to drop by and say that I support him. Hopefully, he can make it in despite the tough competition from other Capcom series.

 

[GoodGrief741]

After listening to some remixes of the original Cornered theme, I am more resolute than ever about how much I need this to happen.

 

[fogbadge]

I've played enough Prof. Layton to know I can't quite enjoy it the way others seem to. So I don't think I'd get much out of the crossover.

to bad

 

[OnyanRings]

I can't believe i never posted here
I'm in full support of our favorite Ace Attorney who's never wrong !

 

[Wyoming]

After listening to some remixes of the original Cornered theme, I am more resolute than ever about how much I need this to happen.

I can only imagine what ACE could do to any AA track.

If it were up to me, I'd give them Cornered or Steel Samurai.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Just remember this: came before , in a time when Capcom showed favoritism to SF. Things might turn out okay.

Furthermore, let's not forget how consistently well Phoenix Wright does in Smash polls when asking about Capcom reps. The demand is definitely out there.

And with his original trilogy now available to even a wider audience then before, things are looking keen for our Ace attorney.

 

[Wyoming]

In a way, I wonder if that's a "bad" thing. They did state that at the investors meeting that they want to target characters that would appeal to both Smash fans non-Smash fans. Would Phoenix really do this? The series isn't unknown per say but people wouldn't flock to buy Switches or Smash for Phoenix either...

 

[MissingGlitch]

In a way, I wonder if that's a "bad" thing. They did state that at the investors meeting that they want to target characters that would appeal to both Smash fans non-Smash fans. Would Phoenix really do this? The series isn't unknown per say but people wouldn't flock to buy Switches or Smash for Phoenix either...

The trilogy is in the top 5 selling games on the eShop the last time I looked.

 

[Lime3037]

The trilogy is in the top 5 selling games on the eShop the last time I looked.

It's #5 on the Download-Only games at the moment, which is really good. It peaked at #3 on both most downloaded lists, too, even beating FF7 at one point. (Never stood a chance against Cuphead, however).
I'd say it's doing really well for a trilogy released on other platforms.

 

[Flyboy]

Phoenix would absolutely have cross-demographic appeal. He and Layton both have a shot if we go by that criteria, which is exciting.

 

[Sonsa]

As far as vs Dante and Resident Evil go... Sakurai's criteria includes characters to be unique. Sure, Dante and Resident Evil have potential to be unique enough, but I think we have enough guns? The easiest way to make a Resident Evil character unique would be to use zombies but ahh, seems too morbid...? Maybe Wesker could fly around and shoot a gun and kick and stuff but yeah... And Sakurai has already spoken on how hard it's gotten to make sword characters unique haha, and sure Dante has more than a sword and gun, but those are definitely what he uses most.

I'm no expert, but I really do believe Phoenix has the best shot out of any Capcom character right now

 

[MissingGlitch]

As far as vs Dante and Resident Evil go... Sakurai's criteria includes characters to be unique. Sure, Dante and Resident Evil have potential to be unique enough, but I think we have enough guns? The easiest way to make a Resident Evil character unique would be to use zombies but ahh, seems too morbid...? Maybe Wesker could fly around and shoot a gun and kick and stuff but yeah... And Sakurai has already spoken on how hard it's gotten to make sword characters unique haha, and sure Dante has more than a sword and gun, but those are definitely what he uses most.

I'm no expert, but I really do believe Phoenix has the best shot out of any Capcom character right now

They went nuts with him in MvC. I can't wait to see how Sakurai handles him unchained from a standard fighting format.

 

[Sonsa]

Definitely! ...um...! And y'all saw that I made a huge vid right? Just curious about fav parts, ideas, fav alt color, fav spirit battle, rather play Phoenix or Apollo, anything ya don't like if I happen to make another one of these...? So far I've heard some people find the spirit/music part pretty long, but I've also heard it's some peoples' favorite part haha, but yeah, just in case someone's interested but just missed it, not tryna be pushy...!

 

[fogbadge]

As far as vs Dante and Resident Evil go... Sakurai's criteria includes characters to be unique. Sure, Dante and Resident Evil have potential to be unique enough, but I think we have enough guns? The easiest way to make a Resident Evil character unique would be to use zombies but ahh, seems too morbid...? Maybe Wesker could fly around and shoot a gun and kick and stuff but yeah... And Sakurai has already spoken on how hard it's gotten to make sword characters unique haha, and sure Dante has more than a sword and gun, but those are definitely what he uses most.

I'm no expert, but I really do believe Phoenix has the best shot out of any Capcom character right now

trouble is what sakurai perseveres as unique maybe different from what we do

 

[Curious Villager]

Phoenix would absolutely have cross-demographic appeal. He and Layton both have a shot if we go by that criteria, which is exciting.

I don't know much about what was said at the investors meeting but if they are indeed aiming to use Smash's DLC to expand towards newer demographics that may haven't tried Smash before then this may indeed be good news for both Phoenix and Layton.

Both the Visual Novel and Puzzle adventure genre's have been largely underutilized in Smash so there is certainly an untapped market they can appeal to, especially with those characters as their very popular and iconic to those respective genre's.

Plus the Layton series (and I think the Ace Attorney series too) has a very large female audience that they may want to appeal to getting into the series as well. Like with Animal Crossing.

That's just my two cents on that.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

And y'all saw that I made a huge vid right? Just curious about fav parts, ideas, fav alt color, fav spirit battle, rather play Phoenix or Apollo, anything ya don't like if I happen to make another one of these...?

I just watched the whole thing and I've to say this is the best Smash-related Phoenix Wright video I've ever seen. Very creative ideas and very well structured video with comprehensive thoughts. I especially love the victory animations and the grabs/pummels (Magatama/Bracelet).
I agree that Apollo would probably be the best echo fighter.

For the costumes: If Apollo is an echo fighter, there is no need for Phoenix to have an Apollo-costume or for Apollo to have a Phoenix-costume. Instead, I'd love to see the pink heart sweater of young Phoenix from AA3 as a costume and the school uniform for Apollo respectively.

Regarding the music, I'd add more Pursuit-Themes, since I think they better fit a fighting game like Smash Bros. If there are only 11 possible choices (like what we got with Persona, Bayonetta, Xenoblade, Pac Man or Metal Gear), I'd choose the following tracks:

- Pursuit Cornered (AA1)
- Objection 2001 (AA1) - Remix
- Steel Samurai (AA1) - Remix
- Turnabout Sisters (AA1) - Remix
- Announce the Truth 2002 (AA2) - Remix
- Pursuit Caught (AA3)
- Pursuit Overtaken (AA4)
- Athena Cykes ~ Courtroom Revolutionnaire (AA5)
- Apollo Justice ~ A New Chapter of Trials 2016 (AA6)
- Pursuit ~ Cornering Together (AA6)
- Pursuit ~ Casting Magic (PLvsAA)

If Phoenix get's the Capcom-treatment and is blessed with more songs (Street Fighter and Mega Man both have 30+ tracks), then there are many more songs I'd love to see in Smash:

- Cross Examination ~ Allegro 2001 (AA1) - Remix
- Ema Skye Scientific Detective (AA1) - Remix
- Pursuit ~ Questioned (AA2) - Remix
- Cross Examination ~ Allegro 2004 (AA3)
- Godot ~The Fragance of Dark Coffee (AA3) - Remix
- Announce the Truth 2007 (AA4) - Remix
- Pursuit ~ Keep Pressing On (AA5)
- Moodmatrix Running Wild (AA5)
- Phantom ~ Unknown (AA5)
- Cross-Examination ~ Allegro 2016 (AA6)
- Investigation Core 2016 (AA6)
- Court of Resignation (AA6)
- A Cornered Heart (AA6)
- Courtroom Magic (PLvsAA)
- The Final Witness (PLvsAA)
- Kay Faraday ~ The Great Truth Burglar (AAI1) - Remix
- Pursuit ~ Lying Coldly (AAI1)
- Pursuit ~ Wanting To Find The Truth (AAI2)
- Announce the Truth 2011 (AAI2)

 

[Sonsa]

I just watched the whole thing and I've to say this is the best Smash-related Phoenix Wright video I've ever seen. Very creative ideas and very well structured video with comprehensive thoughts. I especially love the victory animations and the grabs/pummels (Magatama/Bracelet).
I agree that Apollo would probably be the best echo fighter.

For the costumes: If Apollo is an echo fighter, there is no need for Phoenix to have an Apollo-costume or for Apollo to have a Phoenix-costume. Instead, I'd love to see the pink heart sweater of young Phoenix from AA3 as a costume and the school uniform for Apollo respectively.

Regarding the music, I'd add more Pursuit-Themes, since I think they better fit a fighting game like Smash Bros.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it! For costumes I really wanted to explain how I loved the Feenie sweater in Marvel but since it already got such spotlight there and as a costume in Dual Destinies I wanted to give some spotlight to Phoenix's outfit in Apollo Justice, with the beanie and all! In the end I considered it all too spoiley to talk about...! And for Apollo, I really wanted to show off an alt based on his bandaged appearance in Dual Destinies, but again, seemed like a cool thing I didn't want to risk ruining...? It's not that spoiley at all, maybe I should have put it in...ahhh, whatever haha

As for songs! I tried to show off lots, but I made this playlist back when DLC was first confirmed to try and pick the essentials, it only has 10 songs since I didn't know how lucky we might get, but if I could add one to it, it'd probably be the Cornered theme from Ace Attorney Investigations 2? I guess I'd also change my vote here of Apollo's 2016 theme to his 2013 theme cause the guitar part is just too good, but ideally Smash would remix it and add the best parts of all versions! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTqej2GhAVX5t7SYOKo6-DyH9dDweZjV6 I know we already spoke of music some pages ago, but I could have fun making a new list, if we had 30 slots for songs which would be best for Smash and which I'd like remixed...yeah, that'd be fun!

Your song list is great, I wanted to include some Layton vs Ace Attorney music but avoided it since I would assume the rights to those are less clear? But "The Final Witness" is really good as a mix of Wright's and Apollo's Themes! I also wonder if it'd be cheating if I listed something like...Investigation Medley (This Core + That Middle) since it'd be mixing songs, but you could totally add a few loops together for a 3 minute total, like how the many Ace Attorney albums do...

Oh, and I reaaally wanted to show off how great the orchestra is, especially with Gumshoe's theme here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0LbYdi7XKA skip to 1:39 for some chills! Too bad it just didn't feel natural to incorporate anywhere tsk...!

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

And for Apollo, I really wanted to show off an alt based on his bandaged appearance in Dual Destinies, but again, seemed like a cool thing I didn't want to risk ruining...? It's not that spoiley at all, maybe I should have put it in...ahhh, whatever haha

That's actually a great idea that hasn't crossed my mind yet! Yeah, this probably isn't a big spoiler, but I like how you try to avoid spoilers at all cost, thumbs up! Some other Youtubers don't care about spoilers and it is the worst thing to see a spoiler (without any spoiler warning) before having played the respective game/case.

Your song list for Smash on Youtube is also really nice! A music poll in this thread actually would be really cool. Personally, I slightly prefer the Apollo Justice 2016 version for one reason: The beat & bass in this version is so damn good - you have to listen with headphones to fully experience the track. But the 2013 is great as well, I agree that the guitar part is epic.
As for the Layton vs Ace Attorney music: I don't think it would be that difficult to get access to these tracks if Nintendo really wanted to. Level-5 has strong ties to Nintendo, the game was released in all parts of the world as a retail version and Nintendo was the publisher of the Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover (unlike the other 3DS-Ace Attorney main titles, which were published by Capcom). And who knows, maybe even Professor Layton could get into Smash alongside with Phoenix - this'd be even better.
Glad you mentioned Final Witness out of all tracks - since several months Final Witness is my alarm music every morning. This track gives you the feeling that you can achieve everything and pushes you to your limit (or out of the bed haha). It's actually one of my favourite songs from the series, I got goosebumps everytime (including the first time) this track played ingame. The vague Phoenix & Apollo background melodies make it even better. Would love to see this track in Smash Bros.

 

[Curious Villager]

Speaking of the Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover, One interesting concept I always thought would be interesting to implement are cross series stages. Especially if they continue to go with the route of My Music only having stages with songs of their series.

That way, if they where to include a stage based off the Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover. You'd be able to pick songs from both franchises for that stage. This would also address some of the complaints people have with some of the existing stages. Most particularly Yoshi's Island Melee from Super Mario World. But I'd imagine it would also work for 75m. Heck they might even be able to include other stages from other crossover games such as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games too if they wanted to.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Speaking of the Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover, One interesting concept I always thought would be interesting to implement are cross series stages. Especially if they continue to go with the route of My Music only having stages with songs of their series.

That way, if they where to include a stage based off the Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover. You'd be able to pick songs from both franchises for that stage. This would also address some of the complaints people have with some of the existing stages. Most particularly Yoshi's Island Melee from Super Mario World. But I'd imagine it would also work for 75m. Heck they might even be able to include other stages from other crossover games such as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games too if they wanted to.

You mean like PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale? Or just stages from crossover games and recognized as such in the game?

 

[Curious Villager]

You mean like PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale? Or just stages from crossover games and recognized as such in the game?

The latter. I suppose the former might be interesting to see too though I guess Stage Morph is fine as far as mixing two different stages in one goes.

 

[Sonsa]

Yeah, this probably isn't a big spoiler, but I like how you try to avoid spoilers at all cost, thumbs up!

I slightly prefer the Apollo Justice 2016 version for one reason: The beat & bass in this version is so damn good - you have to listen with headphones to fully experience the track. But the 2013 is great as well, I agree that the guitar part is epic.
As for the Layton vs Ace Attorney music: I don't think it would be that difficult to get access to these tracks if Nintendo really wanted to. Level-5 has strong ties to Nintendo, the game was released in all parts of the world as a retail version and Nintendo was the publisher of the Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover (unlike the other 3DS-Ace Attorney main titles, which were published by Capcom). And who knows, maybe even Professor Layton could get into Smash alongside with Phoenix - this'd be even better.
Glad you mentioned Final Witness out of all tracks - since several months Final Witness is my alarm music every morning. This track gives you the feeling that you can achieve everything and pushes you to your limit (or out of the bed haha).

Thanks so much, I really wanna get people into the series and am glad to hear I've been accomplishing a bit of that!
And oh, Apollo's 2016 version is definitely better overall yeah, I mean that's subjective but personally I love hearing all of it, but really miss the guitar part so ideally we'd get a mix...but yeaaah, nah, 2016 is better overall!

Hm! Well hopefully, they have some great tracks! And ayyy that's such a cool alarm!

Speaking of the Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover, One interesting concept I always thought would be interesting to implement are cross series stages.

That way, if they where to include a stage based off the Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney crossover. You'd be able to pick songs from both franchises for that stage.Heck they might even be able to include other stages from other crossover games such as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games too if they wanted to.

It would be cool, but since this would be a way for many new people to be introduced to both Ace Attorney and Layton, I worry it would make a strange impression to link Ace Attorney and Layton so closely...having a stage like Labyrinthia would be cool, but ahh...maybe not the right impression...? But sharing some Layton vs Ace Attorney tracks between an Ace Attorney stage and a Layton stage seems like a perfectly cool lil bonus to me! Ooh, A Mario Sonic Olympic stage like you say would be great too, those characters are really well established in the public eye already and it'd be real neat!

 

[Curious Villager]

It would be cool, but since this would be a way for many new people to be introduced to both Ace Attorney and Layton, I worry it would make a strange impression to link Ace Attorney and Layton so closely...having a stage like Labyrinthia would be cool, but ahh...maybe not the right impression...? But sharing some Layton vs Ace Attorney tracks between an Ace Attorney stage and a Layton stage seems like a perfectly cool lil bonus to me! Ooh, A Mario Sonic Olympic stage like you say would be great too, those characters are really well established in the public eye already and it'd be real neat!

Oh no, I wouldn't put Labyrynthia in as the first stage for either series yet. Its more of a "something they can do down the line" type of idea after both franchises have already established themselves in Smash.

 

[Sonsa]

Oh no, I wouldn't put Labyrynthia in as the first stage for either series yet. Its more of a "something they can do down the line" type of idea after both franchises have already established themselves in Smash.

Oh then yeah, crossover stages could be a cool focus and theme for a DLC bundle down the line maybe, I could see it taking a lot of work but being used as something really neat but also to hold us over a drought of new characters for a while or something! They'd probably throw in some echoes too to hold us over...I'm not ganna let my train of thought take this hypothetical too off the rails haha, yeah it'd be neat!

 

[GoodGrief741]

The latter. I suppose the former might be interesting to see too though I guess Stage Morph is fine as far as mixing two different stages in one goes.

The problem with that is that it's a stage that can't come back in a future game without having both licenses back, and the devs know it. Unless it's a stage from a Nintendo-Nintendo or Nintendo-third party crossover, I doubt they'd do the work and risk not being able to use it in the future.

 

[Curious Villager]

The problem with that is that it's a stage that can't come back in a future game without having both licenses back, and the devs know it. Unless it's a stage from a Nintendo-Nintendo or Nintendo-third party crossover, I doubt they'd do the work and risk not being able to use it in the future.

Yeah I suppose that's really the only downside of it. At least Capcom seems to be very keen on supporting Smash as much as they can considering the amount of love it received. And Level-5 is known to be avid Nintendo fans so I'd imagine they would be cool with it too, but at the end I suppose it overall depends on how much third party support every Smash will get from here on out and the cost that it will take to bring them all together, especially as more and more third parties get included over the course of time, especially within the base games.

But like I said, It's just an idea. Labyrinthia would probably be a one off stage anyway.

 

[OnyanRings]

If Phoenix Wright got in smash, wich appearance would he have ?

His classic "younger" appearance from his debut or his more mature look from the latest games ?

Spoiler

 

[Curious Villager]

If Phoenix Wright got in smash, wich appearance would he have ?

His classic "younger" appearance from his debut or his more mature look from the latest games ?

Spoiler

I would imagine his default look would be his original trilogy design, though I can see his newer look being an alt. Sakurai seems to be keen on giving third parties alternate costumes, especially with DLC.

Maybe even pull an Ike and give the two slightly different voices if they can.

 

[OnyanRings]

I would imagine his default look would be his original trilogy design, though I can see his newer look being an alt. Sakurai seems to be keen on giving third parties alternate costumes, especially with DLC.

Hoping for one particular alt then...

Spoiler

 

[Sonsa]

I guess they could do both kinda like Bayo or Cloud and have like
1. Trilogy Phoenix
2. Modern Phoenix
3. Trilogy (Edgeworth Color)
4. Modern (Klavier Color)
5. Trilogy (Franziska Color)
6. Modern (Simon Color)
7. Trilogy (Godot Color)
8 Modern (Nahyuta Color)
Or just have his modern look for one slot, OR...I mean honestly I just personally prefer the trilogy design so I'd go with that! BUT since they say they're pushing themselves harder with DLC characters cause they cost money, I dunno, Feenie sweater, I really want the beanie look but it could be such a spoiler... ohh there's even Train Phoenix they could throw in haha nahhh

 

[Flyboy]

I figure Trilogy Phoenix would be the main look because it's iconic but as I've said many a time my fave main series game is Modern so I'd want alternating costumes. Plus Hobo and Feenie!

 

[GoodGrief741]

If Phoenix Wright got in smash, wich appearance would he have ?

His classic "younger" appearance from his debut or his more mature look from the latest games ?

Spoiler

I think we'll absolutely get trilogy Phoenix, it's the iconic look. As for his newer look, it might be there, but I won't lose much sleep if it isn't.

Hoping for one particular alt then...

Spoiler

We're both hoping for the hobo.

I guess they could do both kinda like Bayo or Cloud and have like
1. Trilogy Phoenix
2. Modern Phoenix
3. Trilogy (Edgeworth Color)
4. Modern (Klavier Color)
5. Trilogy (Franziska Color)
6. Modern (Simon Color)
7. Trilogy (Godot Color)
8 Modern (Nahyuta Color)
Or just have his modern look for one slot, OR...I mean honestly I just personally prefer the trilogy design so I'd go with that! BUT since they say they're pushing themselves harder with DLC characters cause they cost money, I dunno, Feenie sweater, I really want the beanie look but it could be such a spoiler... ohh there's even Train Phoenix they could throw in haha nahhh
View attachment 212835

Who where's Train Phoenix from. Is it the anime?

 

[GlitchWarrior]

I don't need it.
I don't need it.
I don't need it...
I really don't need it.....


I NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!

 

[OnyanRings]

Train conductor Wright looks awesome haha.
While we're at it, let's give Toon Link his train outfit too, yeah ?

Spoiler

 

[Sonsa]

Who where's Train Phoenix from. Is it the anime?

Oh! Well there is a train-themed case there I haven't seen yet but no, it's based on a collaboration with railway companies where people would try and solve a case written by Ace Attorney Spirit of Justice writers in real life between stations! You can read about it here: https://aceattorney.fandom.com/wiki/Mystery_Rally_-_Yuko_no_Akashi

Phoenix wasn't the only one to get a snazzy outfit for the collaboration!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Oh! Well there is a train-themed case there I haven't seen yet but no, it's based on a collaboration with railway companies where people would try and solve a case written by Ace Attorney Spirit of Justice writers in real life between stations! You can read about it here: https://aceattorney.fandom.com/wiki/Mystery_Rally_-_Yuko_no_Akashi

Phoenix wasn't the only one to get a snazzy outfit for the collaboration!
View attachment 212883View attachment 212884View attachment 212886

That's pretty cool! I'm hoping to find some fanart of these costumes, too, they're snazzy.