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TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

Leotsune

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Well, the update that came with Sephiroth brought the number of empty spaces down to just 3 in the voice test menu. It basically means a character alt is less likely for Phoenix, but he still is in the running
I don't think that matters that much, even if there were more slots available before this was most likely done to prevent speculation of a 3rd fighters pass, I think they could easily add more spaces if needed.
 

MattX20

Smash Hero
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Messages
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I don't think that matters that much, even if there were more slots available before this was most likely done to prevent speculation of a 3rd fighters pass, I think they could easily add more spaces if needed.
It's possible, but for now, it does make the idea of a character alt for any of the remaining 3 characters of the pass into question.
 

Ny0kazer

Smash Cadet
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This voice theory discredits Monster Hunter some more, but I don't really think it works out well. Even if it does end up being true, who's to say that there won't be a character with multiple voices? There are several voiceless characters who could still make the cut.

Additionally, if we are to take this theory into account, we also have to look at another section of the Sounds menu: Music. There are only 2 spots left to make a full square. Could this mean that a character from an already represented franchise is making it in? Is it Chun-Li? Or will the Smash team just make a new row for voices and music?

Remember, the Smash 4 character select screen wasn't a perfect square if you had all DLC and all three Miis created. Also, when Fighters Pass 2 is finished, the stacked CSS will probably be a nice rectangle, while there will be empty space in the unstacked version. The stage select screen, Squad Strike, Classic Mode, and Quickplay may all end up with empty space, too. So I don't think the Smash team really cares about making things perfectly aligned.
 
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Ny0kazer

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There's something I've been thinking about regarding Phoenix's voice actor.

I'm sure we're all expecting Sam Riegel, but I'm pretty sure he's represented by SAG-AFTRA. We all know about how Nintendo doesn't play nice with unions because of Cloud's voice situation, so we might end up getting another voice actor if Phoenix gets in.

The potential choices for a replacement could include Eric Vale, Trevor White, or Zach LeBlanc. Eric Vale was the voice in the anime dub, Trevor White was the voice in Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney, and Zach LeBlanc was the voice of Nick's playable appearance in the now-discontinued mobile Puzzle Fighter from 2017 (I'll let you judge his performance yourself, though...)

I'd like to include the classic Ben Judd, but, uh...

yikes.PNG


...yeah...

Of course, there are ways for Sam Riegel to reprise his role. I'm pretty sure that Pit and Virdi's voice actors are able to be in the game by going uncredited. However, seeing as how even the anime dub replaced him with Eric Vale, he might have a tough time (although, he did end up voicing Furio Tigre in the second season that covered T&T)
 
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Sonsa

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Sep 27, 2013
Messages
1,961
Yeah, I remember people wanting Phoenix to bonk someone with the Thinker even back before he got in MvC3 too, and like, whatever, not a big deal, sure, but boy I don't get it! Maybe if he's just tossing evidence around, presenting it haphazardly, but some people really want him to use it like how it was used as a murder weapon...!! That's so out of character and brutal, why would he do that! Nah!!
 

Ny0kazer

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I've always wanted an attack where phoenix bonks someone with the thinker.
I mean, this is pretty good forward smash material.



References to the anime would actually be pretty neat. Windboxes would be a cool addition to Nick's pointing attacks. He could also do a badly animated run like he does in the first opening
 

Swamp Sensei

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I actually don't like the idea of Phoenix using a weapon.

It just doesn't suit him. Like papers and things hurting people by chance are fine, but him purposely swinging at someone with a murder weapon sounds wrong.
 

Ny0kazer

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I actually don't like the idea of Phoenix using a weapon.

It just doesn't suit him. Like papers and things hurting people by chance are fine, but him purposely swinging at someone with a murder weapon sounds wrong.
Gotta agree with you there. This plus the idea of Nick throwing hands on purpose just aren't Wright.
 
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Lionfranky

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
529
Write your own pro-con for Wright. I did this in Master Chief thread. Just bringing that idea to here... I plan to do this to other characters I'm interested in.

Pro
  • Long history on Nintendo platform
  • Solid fan demand
  • MVC3 shows interesting moveset that can be carried over with tweak
  • Excellent music catalog

Con
  • Stiff competiton within Capcom: notable Dante and Monster Hunter.
  • Phoenix Wright have much lower sales than these, but it's possible he can overcome this factor
  • Above points lead to this. Nintendo and Capcom may not priotize Phoenix over other more financial attactive candidates.
 

fogbadge

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Write your own pro-con for Wright. I did this in Master Chief thread. Just bringing that idea to here... I plan to do this to other characters I'm interested in.

Pro
  • Long history on Nintendo platform
  • Solid fan demand
  • MVC3 shows interesting moveset that can be carried over with tweak
  • Excellent music catalog

Con
  • Stiff competiton within Capcom: notable Dante and Monster Hunter.
  • Phoenix Wright have much lower sales than these, but it's possible he can overcome this factor
  • Above points lead to this. Nintendo and Capcom may not priotize Phoenix over other more financial attactive candidates.
ok

pros: best capcom character ever. awesome potential for, spirits, music, stage, moveset, everything. series is still deeply beloved by many fans.

cons: capcom seems to favour the worst video game character ever and monster hunter.
 

MattX20

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Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
5,459
ok

pros: best capcom character ever. awesome potential for, spirits, music, stage, moveset, everything. series is still deeply beloved by many fans.

cons: capcom seems to favour the worst video game character ever and monster hunter.
Dante is not the worst video game character ever. Not even remotely close. Characters like Cedric from King's Quest 5 come closer to that description
 

ThunderSageNun

Nugatory
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Write your own pro-con for Wright. I did this in Master Chief thread. Just bringing that idea to here... I plan to do this to other characters I'm interested in.

Pro
  • Excellent music catalog
I don't think this is a relevant pro to analyze his likelihood to get in.
Above all else, I'd say Phoenix is one of Capcoms most iconic "modern" IPs debutting more or less at the same time as DMC, and while it might not be able to boast the same amount of sales numbers as bigger Capcom properties, it's hard to say it hasn't made an impact in game culture with its presentation, wacky characters and catchphrases.
And while this is highly debatable, he definitely feels the most at home with Nintendo compared to a lot of the other debated Capcom characters, not just because the entire franchise has been on Nintendo, but its whole manga-esque vibe and looks feel very much like what you'd expect from one of the games on their library.
Phoenix would definitely play unlike anyone else on the cast as well, but most of the discussed Capcom reps feel like they could bring fairly unique things to the table to stand out from the rest (anyone who thinks Dante would be like Ike or Sephiroth has never played a DMC game).
 

Michael the Spikester

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Write your own pro-con for Wright. I did this in Master Chief thread. Just bringing that idea to here... I plan to do this to other characters I'm interested in.

Pro
  • Long history on Nintendo platform
  • Solid fan demand
  • MVC3 shows interesting moveset that can be carried over with tweak
  • Excellent music catalog

Con
  • Stiff competiton within Capcom: notable Dante and Monster Hunter.
  • Phoenix Wright have much lower sales than these, but it's possible he can overcome this factor
  • Above points lead to this. Nintendo and Capcom may not priotize Phoenix over other more financial attactive candidates.
Another pro is being an honorary Nintendo character as with Banjo.

Phoenix's moveset might also be creative and unique that Sakurai would want to pick him for that.
 
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Handy Man

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I always imagined Phoenix Wright’s down air being accidently dropping the thinker statue, like Steve’s down air. Basically, the thinker statue slips out of Phoenix’s suit, and then he looks panicked as he didn’t mean to let crucial evidence slip by him. That way, he doesn’t actually try to use it to hurt anyone, and it gives him a good projectile attack to use in the air. When the thinker statue, lands on stage, it says I THINK IT’S insert actual time of console here and then disappears.

In fact, I think it would make a lot of sense for Phoenix Wright’s attacks in general to be “accidents”, like Isabelle. As a lawyer, Phoenix doesn’t actually want to hurt anyone, and making most of his attacks freak accidents like that would suit his goofy yet determined personality. Not every move would be an accident, like the desk slam being a down smash, but other things like a sneeze as a down tilt and tripping with papers scattering everywhere as a dash attack would certainly apply as “accidents”.
 

ThunderSageNun

Nugatory
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I always imagined Phoenix Wright’s down air being accidently dropping the thinker statue, like Steve’s down air. Basically, the thinker statue slips out of Phoenix’s suit, and then he looks panicked as he didn’t mean to let crucial evidence slip by him. That way, he doesn’t actually try to use it to hurt anyone, and it gives him a good projectile attack to use in the air. When the thinker statue, lands on stage, it says I THINK IT’S insert actual time of console here and then disappears.

In fact, I think it would make a lot of sense for Phoenix Wright’s attacks in general to be “accidents”, like Isabelle. As a lawyer, Phoenix doesn’t actually want to hurt anyone, and making most of his attacks freak accidents like that would suit his goofy yet determined personality. Not every move would be an accident, like the desk slam being a down smash, but other things like a sneeze as a down tilt and tripping with papers scattering everywhere as a dash attack would certainly apply as “accidents”.
Yeah, this is probably the most accurate portrayal of Phoenix using some of the more harmful evidence in his moveset without being out of character. Like, I still wouldn't say to give him stuff like guns, knifes and anything conventional, but the thinker in particular just feels like an iconic thing to have him throw away.
A part of me hopes he somehow uses some of Gumshoe's "secret weapons" as part of his moveset, like how Missile was his grab in UMvsC3.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Somewhere in the West.
Write your own pro-con for Wright. I did this in Master Chief thread. Just bringing that idea to here... I plan to do this to other characters I'm interested in.

Pro
  • Long history on Nintendo platform
  • Solid fan demand
  • MVC3 shows interesting moveset that can be carried over with tweak
  • Excellent music catalog

Con
  • Stiff competiton within Capcom: notable Dante and Monster Hunter.
  • Phoenix Wright have much lower sales than these, but it's possible he can overcome this factor
  • Above points lead to this. Nintendo and Capcom may not priotize Phoenix over other more financial attactive candidates.
Street Fighter would be the biggest obstacle, if we're being honest. They might add a second unique character for that before Phoenix gets a chance.

Also, I would add "has a fairly consistent character design" as a pro, since he only had a drastic makeover for one game.
 

spicynun

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 7, 2020
Messages
98
Write your own pro-con for Wright. I did this in Master Chief thread. Just bringing that idea to here... I plan to do this to other characters I'm interested in.

Pro
  • Long history on Nintendo platform
  • Solid fan demand
  • MVC3 shows interesting moveset that can be carried over with tweak
  • Excellent music catalog

Con
  • Stiff competiton within Capcom: notable Dante and Monster Hunter.
  • Phoenix Wright have much lower sales than these, but it's possible he can overcome this factor
  • Above points lead to this. Nintendo and Capcom may not priotize Phoenix over other more financial attactive candidates.
Pro
  • Long history with Nintendo, way longer than DMC and MH
  • Highly requested character
  • Would make a unique addition with a unique moveset
  • Seems like the type of goofy character that Sakurai would have interest in making a moveset for
  • The 20th anniversary of the series is next year and his addition could promote the TGAA collection and the potential AA7 where the new MH games don't need the promotion as much and will likely sell a ton anyways.
  • Some of the toughest Capcom competition is potentially in a weird place with the Resident Evil spirit event, MH having a questionable amount of base game content with no character (maybe one was planned and was canceled or delayed)

Con
  • Nintendo has recently been really pushing MH with its own direct and two (timed?) switch exclusive games
  • Capcom has a lot of competition with RE, DMC, MH, another SF or Mega Man rep, GnG etc
  • Not viewed as marketable as the bigger Capcom series such as MH or RE
  • Besides the first party rep, Pass 2 has so far been focused on gigantic series such as Minecraft and Final Fantasy which might not bode well for Phoenix if the pattern continues
  • Nintendo might not want to have a lawyer be a character for whatever silly PR reason
 
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MattX20

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Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
5,459
Street Fighter would be the biggest obstacle, if we're being honest. They might add a second unique character for that before Phoenix gets a chance.

Also, I would add "has a fairly consistent character design" as a pro, since he only had a drastic makeover for one game.
I don't necessarily agree with that logic that Street Fighter or Megaman would get another character first over Phoenix or Dante. Sephiroth was added largely to make FF's representation in Smash not a joke and feel more substantial. Street Fighter and Megaman have lots of content in Smash already and certainly aren't lacking
 

fogbadge

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I don't necessarily agree with that logic that Street Fighter or Megaman would get another character first over Phoenix or Dante. Sephiroth was added largely to make FF's representation in Smash not a joke and feel more substantial. Street Fighter and Megaman have lots of content in Smash already and certainly aren't lacking
nah i think it was more to do with SE continuing to drive the cloud/sephiroth dynamic
 
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fogbadge

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Nintendo picked the characters. That might be part of the reason that Square said yes to him being added, but not why Nintendo would have gone after him.
well as far as we know nintendo just said another FF character and sakurai asked SE what they thought, like with arms. even then is it that hard to believe nintendo chose sephiroth cuase of his own merits?
 

Sonsa

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From a business perspective...like, maybe I'm kidding myself, but... yeah, Phoenix is unique, no one else from any other game could fight like him, yeah he's got great and obvious choices for music and spirits and a stage, he's got fan demand, so all that aside, trying to think from a business perspective...

...aren't Monster Hunter and DMC doing like...fine?? It seems like one of the only problems with Ace Attorney is popularity so wouldn't Capcom sell more games and Nintendo get more profits marketing a character that has released on Nintendo systems and will probably keep doing so...? I mean, I dunno, maybe I'm simplifying it, but sometimes the right solution is the simplest one, if I know Ace Attorney's big in Japan but it's like OKAY everywhere else like in NA where they've only been offering digital downloads then like...I wanna market that one and get it as big as the other things and as big as it is in Japan...

I know Visual Novels also suffer from the unique problem of like "Oh, well, shouldn't I play the others first?" like I tell my buds to start with the trilogy even though every game puts a lot of work into introducing new players too and re-introducing every character so everyone's caught up and everything, agh... I'm sort of just rambling now and kinda lost where I was going, but yeah, marketing visual novels can be awkward and uh... I guess I just feel like we already have Rathalos advertising Monster Hunter, Dante is fine but like, eh, I don't see his addition to Smash making much of a difference in Smash or DMC sales (dumb of me?? I don't know!) and Phoenix is just way more unique and would get much more of a boost! Maybe so much so that they'd actually be confident in selling physical copies over here!

When I first gave Ace Attorney a chance I instantly loved the music, aesthetic, characters and more! People who have heard of Ace Attorney, I ask my friends, some of em don't know what to think, I ask "You think it's just like what, paperwork simulator or somethin?" and they're like "I dunno, I guess I just didn't think of it! They yell? Do you have to be smart?" Dude, you put Phoenix and Maya in Smash being goofballs and SOOOO many people are ganna fall in love with them instantly and want to try out Ace Attorney like "Wait THESE goofs go to COURT?" And I feel like you put Dante in and people are like "Yeah, he slashes sword and shoots gun and does lil zingers, I know" right? No? I guess I dunno.

I mean, nothing against Dante, I have buddies that want him, if he got in, hey sure, he just doesn't seem that unique or have the same wow factor as like Sephiroth whereas I think twitter would get a real great laugh out of Phoenix presenting evidence to Ganondorf or Pichu.

I rambled a lot and could have been clearer but hopefully I got across that I think uh, from a business perspective, isn't the best business move, if you're ganna pick from Phoenix, Dante, or Monster Hunter... to go with Phoenix??
 

Handy Man

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From a business perspective...like, maybe I'm kidding myself, but... yeah, Phoenix is unique, no one else from any other game could fight like him, yeah he's got great and obvious choices for music and spirits and a stage, he's got fan demand, so all that aside, trying to think from a business perspective...

...aren't Monster Hunter and DMC doing like...fine?? It seems like one of the only problems with Ace Attorney is popularity so wouldn't Capcom sell more games and Nintendo get more profits marketing a character that has released on Nintendo systems and will probably keep doing so...? I mean, I dunno, maybe I'm simplifying it, but sometimes the right solution is the simplest one, if I know Ace Attorney's big in Japan but it's like OKAY everywhere else like in NA where they've only been offering digital downloads then like...I wanna market that one and get it as big as the other things and as big as it is in Japan...

I know Visual Novels also suffer from the unique problem of like "Oh, well, shouldn't I play the others first?" like I tell my buds to start with the trilogy even though every game puts a lot of work into introducing new players too and re-introducing every character so everyone's caught up and everything, agh... I'm sort of just rambling now and kinda lost where I was going, but yeah, marketing visual novels can be awkward and uh... I guess I just feel like we already have Rathalos advertising Monster Hunter, Dante is fine but like, eh, I don't see his addition to Smash making much of a difference in Smash or DMC sales (dumb of me?? I don't know!) and Phoenix is just way more unique and would get much more of a boost! Maybe so much so that they'd actually be confident in selling physical copies over here!

When I first gave Ace Attorney a chance I instantly loved the music, aesthetic, characters and more! People who have heard of Ace Attorney, I ask my friends, some of em don't know what to think, I ask "You think it's just like what, paperwork simulator or somethin?" and they're like "I dunno, I guess I just didn't think of it! They yell? Do you have to be smart?" Dude, you put Phoenix and Maya in Smash being goofballs and SOOOO many people are ganna fall in love with them instantly and want to try out Ace Attorney like "Wait THESE goofs go to COURT?" And I feel like you put Dante in and people are like "Yeah, he slashes sword and shoots gun and does lil zingers, I know" right? No? I guess I dunno.

I mean, nothing against Dante, I have buddies that want him, if he got in, hey sure, he just doesn't seem that unique or have the same wow factor as like Sephiroth whereas I think twitter would get a real great laugh out of Phoenix presenting evidence to Ganondorf or Pichu.

I rambled a lot and could have been clearer but hopefully I got across that I think uh, from a business perspective, isn't the best business move, if you're ganna pick from Phoenix, Dante, or Monster Hunter... to go with Phoenix??
I agree completely. In fact, I wrote a post on here back in January basically saying that people would really appreciate Phoenix Wright a lot more if he was featured in something more mainstream like Smash. Not only would people get a kick out of Phoenix Wright, but he would become a well known name in mainstream media, like Joker and Terry did. Ace Attorney is too good of a franchise to be considered niché, and a Smash appearance would make him as beloved as the rest of his Capcom brethren.

I agree completely. Ace Attorney become one of my favorite game series of all time after completing the original trilogy, and I have since completed every game in the series except for DGS2. With that said, before I began with the first game, I just thought it seemed kind of weird and niche. It took a bit to warm up to the game, but by the time I completed case 4, I started to really love and appreciate the game and how satisfying it is to beat the odds, no matter how hopeless or desperate the situation seems to be. With how franchises like Persona and Dragon Quest earned new fans after their Smash appearances, it makes me confident that Ace Attorney will see a drastic increase in its playbase after having Phoenix Wright becoming a Smash fighter. I always felt like Ace Attorney would be more mainstream if more people got to play the game and enjoy it, but currently, it seems more niche than it should be in my opinion. Once people see how great the stories and characters are, as well as the rewarding gameplay of saving your clients against the ruthlessness of the court system, I'm sure some people might think "Why didn't I try this out earlier?" and realize that they were missing out on such a great game series. Hopefully Sakurai agrees with fighters pass two and helps Phoenix Wright with the exposure that he deserves.
 

MattX20

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
5,459
From a business perspective...like, maybe I'm kidding myself, but... yeah, Phoenix is unique, no one else from any other game could fight like him, yeah he's got great and obvious choices for music and spirits and a stage, he's got fan demand, so all that aside, trying to think from a business perspective...

...aren't Monster Hunter and DMC doing like...fine?? It seems like one of the only problems with Ace Attorney is popularity so wouldn't Capcom sell more games and Nintendo get more profits marketing a character that has released on Nintendo systems and will probably keep doing so...? I mean, I dunno, maybe I'm simplifying it, but sometimes the right solution is the simplest one, if I know Ace Attorney's big in Japan but it's like OKAY everywhere else like in NA where they've only been offering digital downloads then like...I wanna market that one and get it as big as the other things and as big as it is in Japan...

I know Visual Novels also suffer from the unique problem of like "Oh, well, shouldn't I play the others first?" like I tell my buds to start with the trilogy even though every game puts a lot of work into introducing new players too and re-introducing every character so everyone's caught up and everything, agh... I'm sort of just rambling now and kinda lost where I was going, but yeah, marketing visual novels can be awkward and uh... I guess I just feel like we already have Rathalos advertising Monster Hunter, Dante is fine but like, eh, I don't see his addition to Smash making much of a difference in Smash or DMC sales (dumb of me?? I don't know!) and Phoenix is just way more unique and would get much more of a boost! Maybe so much so that they'd actually be confident in selling physical copies over here!

When I first gave Ace Attorney a chance I instantly loved the music, aesthetic, characters and more! People who have heard of Ace Attorney, I ask my friends, some of em don't know what to think, I ask "You think it's just like what, paperwork simulator or somethin?" and they're like "I dunno, I guess I just didn't think of it! They yell? Do you have to be smart?" Dude, you put Phoenix and Maya in Smash being goofballs and SOOOO many people are ganna fall in love with them instantly and want to try out Ace Attorney like "Wait THESE goofs go to COURT?" And I feel like you put Dante in and people are like "Yeah, he slashes sword and shoots gun and does lil zingers, I know" right? No? I guess I dunno.

I mean, nothing against Dante, I have buddies that want him, if he got in, hey sure, he just doesn't seem that unique or have the same wow factor as like Sephiroth whereas I think twitter would get a real great laugh out of Phoenix presenting evidence to Ganondorf or Pichu.

I rambled a lot and could have been clearer but hopefully I got across that I think uh, from a business perspective, isn't the best business move, if you're ganna pick from Phoenix, Dante, or Monster Hunter... to go with Phoenix??
I don't think I could've said it better myself.
 

KirbyMonadoBoy

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2020 was not the best year, but remember: The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over! I think 2021 will be really great, it could be Phoenix' big year: The Great Ace Attorney, possible Ace Attorney 7, 20th anniversary (maybe some new celebration artworks and special concerts / events?) and hopefully Phoenix in Smash. If one guy can make a big comeback, it is Phoenix!
 
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