TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[ThunderSageNun]

after Geno, I'd say it's safe to believe all missing mii costumes from the previous game will make their comeback throughout this fighters pass. That doesn't warrant we'll get them with a Capcom rep, but I'll be surprised if we don't see any other costumes from them whenever those drop. I wonder if we might see Arthur among those given the recent GnG?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I'm just personally just waiting 4 anything potentially smash related cause I'm pretty sure some capcom reps coming

Actually if any potential smash **** does leak, tag me or @ me or whatever

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Ok let us summarize:

• Total absence of Ace Attorney content in Smash, even though all games originated on Nintendo consoles
• Ace Attorney trilogy is selling very well on the Nintendo Switch (almost half a million sold copies so far)
• Monster Hunter costumes are still mysteriously missing, probably held back to be revealed alongside a capcom rep (similar to Chocobo and Geno up until the Sephiroth presentation)
• Capcom has been a great partner for Nintendo in the past and there still hasn't been a single capcom newcomer in either of the 2 Fighters Passes
• Resident Evil is out of the race, Monster Hunter probably too (considering it got representation in the base game with music + Rathalos), Dante might be unlikelier than Phoenix due to him being more similar to fighters like Joker and Sephiroth, whereas Phoenix would have a totally unique moveset
• Sakurai emphasized how a unique and fun moveset is more important than the popularity of characters when chosing DLCs
• Visual Novels are one of the few genres not representated as fighters in Ultimate yet
• Sakurai and Takumi have met in the past + Sakurai appreciates Ace Attorney
• Music, stage, spirits - there is huge potential for a great DLC challenger pack with obvious, iconic choices
• Phoenix Wright in Smash could promote The Great Ace Attorney Collection and Ace Attorney 7 which are planned for the 20th anniversary next year, perfect timing!

I think it's looking pretty good for our lawyer, either a reveal in February/March or at E3 in June are imo the most likely occasions for a Phoenix reveal, since I don't think they would bring him as the final character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ok let us summarize:

• Total absence of Ace Attorney content in Smash, even though all games originated on Nintendo consoles
• Ace Attorney trilogy is selling very well on the Nintendo Switch (almost half a million sold copies so far)
• Monster Hunter costumes are still mysteriously missing, probably held back to be revealed alongside a capcom rep (similar to Chocobo and Geno up until the Sephiroth presentation)
• Capcom has been a great partner for Nintendo in the past and there still hasn't been a single capcom newcomer in either of the 2 Fighters Passes
• Resident Evil is out of the race, Monster Hunter probably too (considering it got representation in the base game with music + Rathalos), Dante might be unlikelier than Phoenix due to him being more similar to fighters like Joker and Sephiroth, whereas Phoenix would have a totally unique moveset
• Sakurai emphasized how a unique and fun moveset is more important than the popularity of characters when chosing DLCs
• Visual Novels are one of the few genres not representated as fighters in Ultimate yet
• Sakurai and Takumi have met in the past + Sakurai appreciates Ace Attorney
• Music, stage, spirits - there is huge potential for a great DLC challenger pack with obvious, iconic choices
• Phoenix Wright in Smash could promote The Great Ace Attorney Collection and Ace Attorney 7 which are planned for the 20th anniversary next year, perfect timing!

I think it's looking pretty good for our lawyer, either a reveal in February/March or at E3 in June are imo the most likely occasions for a Phoenix reveal, since I don't think they would bring him as the final character.

Not to mention how unpredictable Sephiroth was with no one expecting him despite being one of gaming's most iconic villains and was likely promoting the FFVII it's certainly possible. I really hope you're right.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Not gonna count any chickens, because Capcom’s got a ton of solid choices (what if they’re surprise pick was Arthur?). But Phoenix would make me happy!

I was also thinking that the next fighter would be somewhat niche, still relatively big, like Terry. Phoenix fits that perfectly.

 

[Bobthealligator]

Ok let us summarize:

• Total absence of Ace Attorney content in Smash, even though all games originated on Nintendo consoles
• Ace Attorney trilogy is selling very well on the Nintendo Switch (almost half a million sold copies so far)
• Monster Hunter costumes are still mysteriously missing, probably held back to be revealed alongside a capcom rep (similar to Chocobo and Geno up until the Sephiroth presentation)
• Capcom has been a great partner for Nintendo in the past and there still hasn't been a single capcom newcomer in either of the 2 Fighters Passes
• Resident Evil is out of the race, Monster Hunter probably too (considering it got representation in the base game with music + Rathalos), Dante might be unlikelier than Phoenix due to him being more similar to fighters like Joker and Sephiroth, whereas Phoenix would have a totally unique moveset
• Sakurai emphasized how a unique and fun moveset is more important than the popularity of characters when chosing DLCs
• Visual Novels are one of the few genres not representated as fighters in Ultimate yet
• Sakurai and Takumi have met in the past + Sakurai appreciates Ace Attorney
• Music, stage, spirits - there is huge potential for a great DLC challenger pack with obvious, iconic choices
• Phoenix Wright in Smash could promote The Great Ace Attorney Collection and Ace Attorney 7 which are planned for the 20th anniversary next year, perfect timing!

I think it's looking pretty good for our lawyer, either a reveal in February/March or at E3 in June are imo the most likely occasions for a Phoenix reveal, since I don't think they would bring him as the final character.

Cons:
*In regards to the lack of a spirit event I wouldn't celebrate just yet as we're getting a lot of Ace Attorney stuff next year son I could see it coinciding with with either DGS or AA7. *And similarly there is relatively little precedent for the 3rd party characters collating with upcoming releases, but there is for Spirit events.
*No mention of Smash in the Capcom gigaleak
*Ace Attorney isn't as big as Resident Evil and that got Spirited which doesn't set a great precedent.
*Previously Capcom miis released alongside Byleth and Banjo, so I don't think there's any reason to believe that they're being saved for a certain character.
*Following on from that the FP2 mii costumes have been somewhat connected to the character they come with, Monster Hunter didn't really fit with any of the waves so it's not that odd that they're still MIA
*Also I don't think Monster Hunter having stuff in base really counts them out, especially after Min Min
*Also it's worth mentioning that the evidence system from MVC is pretty similar to Steve's mining gimmick.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I’d almost say Monster Hunter himself is most likely. But there’s reason to be optimistic.

 

[MattX20]

I'm skeptical of Monster Hunter getting in as a rep, especially when both Devil May Cry and Ace Attorney are major franchises the company has and both are celebrating their 20th anniversaries next year.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm skeptical of Monster Hunter getting in as a rep, especially when both Devil May Cry and Ace Attorney are major franchises the company has and both are celebrating their 20th anniversaries next year.

Crazy prediction but I'm thinking we're actually getting Palicos with the Monster Hunter Miis returning with it. I can see this surprise happening with Sakurai convincing Nintendo especially of how popular they are given their cuteness, plus Sakurai loves cats.

Especially after not expecting Sephiroth who even then more then earns his inclusion being one of gaming's most iconic villains. I'm expecting this to happen.

 

[spicynun]

Everyone is predicting Monster Hunter so according to the rules of the universe, MH isn't in.
I'm kidding but I really do hope it's Phoenix. I have a hard time with the current state of Capcom in Smash speculation because I really do feel like all things considered, most of the Capcom frontrunners have an equal shot. I'm seeing a lot of arguments in the newcomer thread for Monster Hunter that could also be applied to other Capcom properties. It also seems like the MH mii costumes either support the idea of MH getting a rep or go against it depending on the person.

 

[Heoj]

Phoenix Wright is tied with Neku Sakuraba as my 2nd and 3rd most wanted and with both Geno(my number 1) and Neku out of the race, Phoenix is my most wanted in terms of whos possible.

I think I 100% expect a capcom rep as one of the last 3 slots but I fear that Monster Hunter is the most likely candidate. i know simply having a new game isnt a good enough argument to get a slot but it wouldnt surprise me at all if nintendo and capcom had looooots of different talks about monster hunter.
I also think it might be noteworthy to acknowledge this rumour: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...ster_hunter_rises_timed_exclusivity_on_switch

Personally i would find it a little strange for MH to be in the fighters pass considering nintendo may have had to spend that much for timed exclusive on rise, but then again i dont know much about business.

I also personally doubt Dante, but thats just my personal opinion and its not really based on anything.

 

[MattX20]

Because of Byleth existing, it's why I'm fairly certain Monster Hunter isn't coming to Smash Ultimate as a playable character. That, and Capcom would likely want to have one of their other major IPs get some representation. Hence why Phoenix and Dante are more compelling choices

 

[Ny0kazer]

One of the reasons why Monster Hunter is brought up so much is also the lack of content from it. You might think that just having Rathalos is enough, but there's zero stages, only two music tracks, and one spirit, giving a good reason to make a Challenger Pack for the series.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

MH is in a somewhat weird state, it's generally the youngest Capcom franchise to be discussed for a newcomer, some devs have at least mentioned not finding the Hunter to be cool for crossovers as much as palicos and the monsters would be and you could consider the representation of a boss fight to be as good of a representation for the franchise given the hunts for them are the highlights of the series.
On the other hand, with Min-Min and Sephiroth, you could say that existing content is irrelevant for their chances, and Capcom could just not care for the devs feelings and still aim for a deal with Nintendo to be their next rep given how succesful the series has become worldwide lately (World is currently Capcom's best selling game ever iirc), and with the upcoming Switch games, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to further promote it, or for Nintendo to appeal to a demographic that might not be interested in Smash yet.
While probably not as seemingly out of the race as RE after its spirits event, I don't really count them to be part of the running for next Capcom rep anymore, but that might my bias speaking as I don't care for MH. At this point, I worry more for someone like Chun-Li overshadowing Phoenix in Capcom/Nintendo's agenda.

 

[MattX20]

MH is in a somewhat weird state, it's generally the youngest Capcom franchise to be discussed for a newcomer, some devs have at least mentioned not finding the Hunter to be cool for crossovers as much as palicos and the monsters would be and you could consider the representation of a boss fight to be as good of a representation for the franchise given the hunts for them are the highlights of the series.
On the other hand, with Min-Min and Sephiroth, you could say that existing content is irrelevant for their chances, and Capcom could just not care for the devs feelings and still aim for a deal with Nintendo to be their next rep given how succesful the series has become worldwide lately (World is currently Capcom's best selling game ever iirc), and with the upcoming Switch games, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to further promote it, or for Nintendo to appeal to a demographic that might not be interested in Smash yet.
While probably not as seemingly out of the race as RE after its spirits event, I don't really count them to be part of the running for next Capcom rep anymore, but that might my bias speaking as I don't care for MH. At this point, I worry more for someone like Chun-Li overshadowing Phoenix in Capcom/Nintendo's agenda.

The problem with that logic is that Capcom wants as many IPs they've got like Ace Attorney and DMC to be more successful, so it makes no sense to promote Monster Hunter or Street Fighter. Square Enix's main IPs were FF and Dragon Quest, and both now have a valid amount of content in Smash, while Capcom has Street Fighter, Megaman, Resident Evil, Ace Attorney, Devil May Cry, and Viewtiful Joe just to name a few, so having as many properties in Smash Ultimate would be more beneficial to them in the long run and short run.

 

[Bobthealligator]

Because of Byleth existing, it's why I'm fairly certain Monster Hunter isn't coming to Smash Ultimate as a playable character. That, and Capcom would likely want to have one of their other major IPs get some representation. Hence why Phoenix and Dante are more compelling choices

Why? I don't really think that Byleth is that similar to how the Hunter would be in Smash. For one, the Hunter being a zoner wouldn't be a great representation of what the series is about. If it's the weapon master angle, I also don't see that as an accurate representation of what Monster Hunter is about either, it would be a much better idea to just focus on the Great Sword in all honesty.

 

[Ny0kazer]

MH is in a somewhat weird state, it's generally the youngest Capcom franchise to be discussed for a newcomer, some devs have at least mentioned not finding the Hunter to be cool for crossovers as much as palicos and the monsters would be and you could consider the representation of a boss fight to be as good of a representation for the franchise given the hunts for them are the highlights of the series.
On the other hand, with Min-Min and Sephiroth, you could say that existing content is irrelevant for their chances, and Capcom could just not care for the devs feelings and still aim for a deal with Nintendo to be their next rep given how succesful the series has become worldwide lately (World is currently Capcom's best selling game ever iirc), and with the upcoming Switch games, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to further promote it, or for Nintendo to appeal to a demographic that might not be interested in Smash yet.
While probably not as seemingly out of the race as RE after its spirits event, I don't really count them to be part of the running for next Capcom rep anymore, but that might my bias speaking as I don't care for MH. At this point, I worry more for someone like Chun-Li overshadowing Phoenix in Capcom/Nintendo's agenda.

The stance that the developers dislike having the Hunter playable in crossovers is debatable. Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite seems to have shattered that point, although I have heard that some developers were against her inclusion (I haven't been able to find any sources for this though).

I think Chun-Li's chances are a bit overblown and somewhat of a bandwagon pick. The leak is worrisome and the fact that Street Fighter doesn't have much content outside of Street Fighter II does well for her chances, but I think Capcom would really much rather promote another franchise of their's.

 

[MattX20]

Why? I don't really think that Byleth is that similar to how the Hunter would be in Smash. For one, the Hunter being a zoner wouldn't be a great representation of what the series is about. If it's the weapon master angle, I also don't see that as an accurate representation of what Monster Hunter is about either, it would be a much better idea to just focus on the Great Sword in all honesty.

Both Byleth and MH are jacks of all trades when it comes to weaponry, and Sakurai doesn't like doing redundant moveset concepts for DLC.

 

[Ny0kazer]

Something else that would do well for Nick's chances is his performance during the Smash 4 ballot. I mentioned this a few days ago, but from what I can recall from my experience as a wee lad, Phoenix was among the most popular candidates for another Capcom rep. Seeing as how the ballot has had an impact on Ultimate's roster (as proven by picks such as Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo), there's yet another boost in likelihood for him.

 

[Heoj]

Either way, if Phoenix gets in as a fighter this fighter pass and he doesn't bring along mii's for Steel Samurai and the Blue Badger, we riot.

 

[Ny0kazer]

Either way, if Phoenix gets in as a fighter this fighter pass and he doesn't bring along mii's for Steel Samurai and the Blue Badger, we riot.View attachment 296530

Source Gaming made a video on potential Ace Attorney content a few months back. One of the things I like most about it is the proposal of Sissel from Ghost Trick as a Mii costume. Port Ghost Trick to Switch dammit

 

[ThunderSageNun]

The problem with that logic is that Capcom wants as many IPs they've got like Ace Attorney and DMC to be more successful, so it makes no sense to promote Monster Hunter or Street Fighter. Square Enix's main IPs were FF and Dragon Quest, and both now have a valid amount of content in Smash, while Capcom has Street Fighter, Megaman, Resident Evil, Ace Attorney, Devil May Cry, and Viewtiful Joe just to name a few, so having as many properties in Smash Ultimate would be more beneficial to them in the long run and short run.

I suppose it depends on what sort of benefit they seek. Do they want to make another of their series gain some more recognition in a big crossover game? Or do they want to feature one of their most successful games to maybe make that DLC sell more and gain more profits of it? I suppose what Nintendo prefers also plays a factor here as they might think MH selling more than other Capcom properties = more DLC sales or something along those lines. Either way, I agree that's a good counter argument against the idea.

The stance that the developers dislike having the Hunter playable in crossovers is debatable. Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite seems to have shattered that point, although I have heard that some developers were against her inclusion (I haven't been able to find any sources for this though).

I think Chun-Li's chances are a bit overblown and somewhat of a bandwagon pick. The leak is worrisome and the fact that Street Fighter doesn't have much content outside of Street Fighter II does well for her chances, but I think Capcom would really much rather promote another franchise of their's.

Chun-Li leak? I only mentioned her as she's among Capcoms most iconic characters and they could opt to give SF more content for reasons over choosing a new franchise to represent now that we've seen the game give 3rd party franchises more than 1 character to represent them (barring echoes). Not to say I think she's guaranteed to be next or anything, but her chances didn't concern me much before Sephiroth, now I'd say she's a more legit threat to Phoenix than Dante or a MH rep.
I also heard before about the huntress being added to Infinite without the MH devs consent, but I've no idea if that's more than a rumor as I never found an official source on the subject. That's why I also mentioned Capcom could simply not care on that mentality of the devs supposedly not being fans of using the generic hunters for crossovers and make that point against their inclusion potentially irrelevant.

 

[Bobthealligator]

Both Byleth and MH are jacks of all trades when it comes to weaponry, and Sakurai doesn't like doing redundant moveset concepts for DLC.

I don't see MH as a Multi Weapon character. Almost the characters that use multiple 'weapons' (I.e. Byleth, Robin, Villager (Kind of), Min Min and Steve) all are capable of switching between them on the fly. The only exception being Inkling. Add in the fact that the Hunter basically has all the moves they need built in to each weapon. If the Hunter used multiple weapons like Byleth it would be a really bad representation of the series. And then the only things they have in common is a slower walk speed and a sword, which isn't a redundant moveset really.
I feel like it might be worth taking this discussion to the Monster Hunter thread at this point.

 

[fogbadge]

Phoenix Wright is tied with Neku Sakuraba as my 2nd and 3rd most wanted and with both Geno(my number 1) and Neku out of the race, Phoenix is my most wanted in terms of whos possible.

I think I 100% expect a capcom rep as one of the last 3 slots but I fear that Monster Hunter is the most likely candidate. i know simply having a new game isnt a good enough argument to get a slot but it wouldnt surprise me at all if nintendo and capcom had looooots of different talks about monster hunter.
I also think it might be noteworthy to acknowledge this rumour: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...ster_hunter_rises_timed_exclusivity_on_switch

Personally i would find it a little strange for MH to be in the fighters pass considering nintendo may have had to spend that much for timed exclusive on rise, but then again i dont know much about business.

I also personally doubt Dante, but thats just my personal opinion and its not really based on anything.

if ones your 2nd and one your 3rd how are they tied?

 

[Ny0kazer]

Some other food for thought I wanted to mention is about the music Phoenix could bring along with him.

Smash Ultimate has a generous amount of Mega Man and Street Fighter tracks, but the representation is scarce. There's only 4 non-Classic Mega Man tracks and zero non-Street Fighter II tracks. Capcom has been pushing the Ace Attorney Trilogy for a while now. Outside of Apollo and Klavier showing up in promotional art sometimes, the cast of the trilogy are usually the ones there. This has gotten me a bit worried that Capcom will only allow music from the trilogy. I wouldn't want to miss out on some Guilty Love during a battle.

At the bare minimum, the ideal music representation would probably look something like this:
Every Objection theme
Every Pursuit theme
Every Allegro Cross-Examination theme (except for the Investigations duo, which would probably be the Presto themes)

That's quite a lot, though (these are including the DGS duo). Even if you cut out some of the redundant ones (like the Dual Destinies Objections, the T&T Objection, and Apollo's original Objection), that's 29 tracks. And that still isn't a very good amount of tracks since there's no character themes.

The majority of Challenger Packs have brought along around only 10 music tracks. The only exceptions are Min-Min (who brought 18 tracks, but it's owned by Nintendo so there wasn't much of a hassle adding them) and Terry (who brought 50 tracks, but SNK loves crossovers, so no problem there either). In Smash 4, Mega Man only had 10 tracks and Ryu only had 6 tracks.

What do y'all think about this?

(Oh yeah, and the Chun-Li leak is about someone on 5chan talking about planned characters in Ultimate. The poster mentioned Hero, Steve, Sephiroth, and the Geno costume being planned, along with the rejection of Sora, the replacement of Chun-Li by Ken, and the mysterious absence of a Tales protagonist.)

 

[ThunderSageNun]

since I don't count on AA going above the 20 music tracks (and even that's probably being generous, it'll probably be more alongside the 11-16 range), I think the best way to try to offer some variety is trying to arrange some tracks into one, like having the objection and pursuit themes remixed into one somehow. I'd be surprised if they entirely skip on stuff like Apollo and Klavier's theme even if they mostly focus on the main trilogy. It's stuff from Investigations onwards where I feel they might be less lenient on representing outside of spirits (which would be a shame, Athena might not be a character everyone likes, but her themes are great).

 

[Noler_Mass]

I’m not gonna worry about Chun-Li, because Chun-Li would be awesome too, despite being another SF pick. Chun-Li almost transcends gaming imo. She’s very very renowned.

 

[Noler_Mass]

plus, i’m not gonna lie, I think Suzaku Castle is boring. Need a Street Fighter stage that looks like a Street Fight!

 

[Heoj]

if ones your 2nd and one your 3rd how are they tied?

it swaps, i cant decide

 

[AnEasterEgg]

Either way, if Phoenix gets in as a fighter this fighter pass and he doesn't bring along mii's for Steel Samurai and the Blue Badger, we riot.

I'd think there's a lot of potential for Mii costumes. Gumshoe, Maya (who would probably be part of Wright's moveset as well but even so), Edgeworth, the Judge, Franziska, Manfred, Godot... and that's just some ideas from the original trilogy, not even taking into account all the other games.

 

[fogbadge]

I'd think there's a lot of potential for Mii costumes. Gumshoe, Maya (who would probably be part of Wright's moveset as well but even so), Edgeworth, the Judge, Franziska, Manfred, Godot... and that's just some ideas from the original trilogy, not even taking into account all the other games.

oh man a mii costume of the judge would be amazing, sword fighter with a gavel

 

[Noler_Mass]

Godot Gunner with coffee cup gun, you heard it here first.

 

[fogbadge]

Godot Gunner with coffee cup gun, you heard it here first.

no i didnt

 

[Ny0kazer]

Even if the Monster Hunter Mii costumes do make it in (before another Capcom character gets added of course), we should still be wary. The costumes are based on just armour sets. It's not like a Hunter character has to be wearing Rathalos armour.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Yeah, the MH costumes are specific armor sets, it's not the same as seeing Phoenix or Dante getting mii costumed as those are based on specific characters.

 

[fogbadge]

Even if the Monster Hunter Mii costumes do make it in (before another Capcom character gets added of course), we should still be wary. The costumes are based on just armour sets. It's not like a Hunter character has to be wearing Rathalos armour.

that was my thinking, and i dont even play MH

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Its worth noting that the capcom costumes are in a similar situation to Squares costumes before. We got some with Hero and the other 2 were held off for Sephiroth.
We got a few costumes in FP1. And nothing for FP2. So it does seem like a Capcom rep is being discreetly set up.

 

[fogbadge]

it does seem like a Capcom rep is being discreetly set up.

assuming it wasnt in that leak

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

assuming it wasnt in that leak

I think the reasoning for it not being in the leak would be that this was decided a year ago and is mostly in Nintendo and Bandais hands. The talks for Phoenix would be old and presumably not be in Capcoms emails.

 

[spicynun]

Even if the Monster Hunter Mii costumes do make it in (before another Capcom character gets added of course), we should still be wary. The costumes are based on just armour sets. It's not like a Hunter character has to be wearing Rathalos armour.

Yeah that seems to be why many seem to think that Hunter has a better chance than Lloyd at being upgraded from a mii costume. I personally think MH would be the weakest choice for a Capcom rep for that very reason though. Just my bias speaking but I always prefer when specific characters get in Smash as opposed to the avatar type characters. It's why I'm a huge Dark Souls fan but don't want Chosen Undead in Smash. I really hope the Capcom rep is Phoenix, but I would take Dante, Ammy, Chun-Li, Viewtiful Joe, etc. over MH. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion though.