Sydney Smash Thread - Comrades Of Xeno -

[Shaya]

Homerun bats are banned not due to the instant ko if it hits after a 'smash', more due to the fact as a thrown item it is UNBELIEVABLY BROKEN.

I'm not exactly coming in here from a 100% entertainment value. There is a level of gaming prowess that can come from items that is neither broken nor too random dependant.
Beam Sword I believe is fine, it's extended range gives use to many other characters. MK on the other hand has one of the shortest Beam Sword ranges in the game. What a nice item, balanced out between the MANY characters.

Fan's are banned due to the fact that are the GOD ITEM in brawl. Fans give:
a) Hit stun
b) Good Damage
c) No delay or lag between the move = near infinites on MANY characters.

Warp Star as I said can be seen a mile away, it isn't so godly. It kills light characters at the 70-80% range. And considering how slow it is that' not too great.

Smash Balls have too much variety. Pretty much guaranteed kills with so many of them. Even though it would give characters like Sonic some sort of awesome tourney presence. Smash Balls may be worth it in doubles though.

Food - 1-10% (i.e. no hearts/tomatoes) isn't going to completely change who's going to win or lose.

 

[unknownforce]

Sorry I couldn't post sooner, but I just got back to the US late last night. Anyway, it was great meeting a few of you guys Wednesday evening and playing some melee/brawl. Thanks to Xeno for inviting me and to everyone else who came. Some very fun matches, although a lot of stupid stuff happened too lol I started getting pretty lucky near the end of the night with random Doc spikes and what not. Too bad we didn't get any Brawl singles matches it would have been fun to try my luck against Simon's Meta (I'm pretty sure he would win).

Hope the tournament went well!

 

[EverAlert]

Regarding the items thing...

For those TL;DR types, this is going to summarise something like this: DON'T like them or think it'll turn out well, DO think it's a good idea to test it out and see.

Now, the thoughts/reasoning. Realise that I am (mostly) targeting whether it improves or degrades competitivity, as that is the entire point of competitive play:

FOR

• Adds SOME strategy.
• Adds SOME depth.
• Adds SOME combos.
• Smash Balls + Dragoon Parts + Golden Hammer + HIGH = OMG THERE'S A SMASH BALL, MUST FIGHT TO THE DEATH FOR IT. BUT WAIT SHOULD I BE COLLECTING DRAGOON PARTS? OH SQUEE A GOLDEN HAMMER THEY ARE POWERFUL. WHICH TO GET? DECISIONS! INTENSITY! DRAMA! ACTION! *dies of heart failure from too much awesome*
• ENTERTAINMENT +1!
• Demotes camping. YES!
• Perhaps we'll see a bit of enhanced item play beyond the SPAM SPAM SPAM you're used to recieving from your casual mates.

SOME = Next to none/technically more than 0.

AGAINST

• LESS FUN than no items, in my opinion. Honestly, I enjoy items just as much as the next guy, but I simply have more fun playing without them than I do playing with them, even if I'm being beat to a pulp because of it.
• THEY GET IN THE F__CKING WAY. I can't tell you how many times I've intended to fsmash or something and, instead of my favoured ****** pals pounding the s__t out of my opponent, they pick up an item and get pummeled instead. You can't even f__cking avoid that in the air any more because characters can now grab all items out of the air with any move that involves A (way more than half the moveset...).
• RANDOMNESS. Know why people hate tripping? Because a lucky, non-skill-based mechanic COULD (and does) decide the outcome of a match. People are seriously debating whether removing tripping through hacking methods (read: literally changing the game to their liking) should be tourney-standard purely based on this. YES SHAYA I KNOW YOU'RE NOT HEARING THIS ARGUMENT TILL AFTER THE NEXT TOURNEY BUT I BELIEVE IT IS VALID AND THEREFORE WORTH MENTIONING.
• We all scoff when someone is like THE BEST PLAYERS USE ITEMS or MASTERING SMASH MEANS USING ITEMS TOO or something along those lines, do we not? (See: Nintendo Tour, GameSpot Tourney, etc etc). We've all seen ridiculous contestants win matches purely because items gave them the edge rather than their own pure skill.
• Seriously, whenever I think of items in tourney play, I am reminded of the above two points (among others) and my gut reaction is OMG I WANNA PLAY MELEE. (NTSC only, of course. <3)
• SPAM SPAM SPAM.

So, in summary, my initial reaction is: Fun? Yes. Different? Yes. Adds new gameplay elements/mechanics? Yes. More competitive than no items (varied reasoning)? No. Should we try this out and see if my reaction is full of poopycock or win? YES.

A question: If we are to play competitively, is it not proper to play in the most competitive manner?

 

[FOnti]

@ unreon: ive started doing bjj recently. most fun ive had in years. nice vid, although flying submissions hardly ever work. apart from that one guy who got an ankle lock on anderson silva in pride, i think it was haha.

not a big fan of armbars. i cant get them at all.

 

[FOnti]

the most competitive manner? by needing to main (or at least have a backup) of one of two or three characters to have a chance? no thank you.

personally, i stand to gain hugely from using items. and i dont know if im for or against them yet, but i do know that brawl isnt _that_ enjoyable the way we're currently playing it. i reckon items could be a good idea.

 

[Sylvan]

Personally, I think Australia should pick up items, after the rest of the world does. I mean whats the point playing items on, if America/Japan/Europe play them off?

Regardless, of skill/fun debates, it you want your smash community strive to be the best, they have to play the most widely accepted standards.

 

[CAOTIC]

Because we aren't lemmings?

 

[Sylvan]

Sometimes it's good to be a lemming =D

 

[xeno]

Yeah, I think we should decide our own stages and stuff too, which I think Shaya did for the tourney, good.
re: msn: *shrug* Shaya, I wasn't flaming, I was trying to explain why "the wavedash" is considered so important -- it's not because it's a "technical skill to learn", it literally opens options in the manevering and tactics aspect of the game.
It's much different then l-cancelling or short-hopping. I wasn't being rude, I was honestly suggesting you play Melee more to see what everyone's talking about.
I suggested hacking tripping out a long time ago, glad other people are thinking the same ^_^
I disagree with randomness unless it is controlled or predictable (example: random spread of a minigun in a fps, markov chains or the incredibly specific random values for -everything- in nethack).
Smash items are surprising, interesting and fun. As far as playing the game goes, I consider that kind of randomness crap. As someone pointed out, randomness can and does decide the outcome of a match. That 7% heal from food may allow them to DI out of your killing move, letting them come back and combo you to oblivion. Throwing more randomness into a system and assuming it will work itself out (eg lots of items) won't work either, it would just be messy.

Let me clarify: I would totally be in favor of items if they weren't so f_cking unpredictable. I've played a lot of games where possessing a certain gun or getting to a certain position means victory -- and this is fine because it's predictable and counterable. Items are not counterable but they are avoidable (what I mean is, you can't stop someone from picking up an item while they are picking it up because you didn't know it was going to spawn in the first place). A random power-up. Yay? Uncontrolled dice rolling, might as well say.. spar someone, and then if you roll a 7 on two dice, you get to pick up a sword. Yay!

Because I didn't know what a Markov Chain was the first time I heard it either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain

 

[xeno]

That video makes me want to learn Captain Falcon

 

[Kulla]

Sorry I couldn't post sooner, but I just got back to the US late last night. Anyway, it was great meeting a few of you guys Wednesday evening and playing some melee/brawl. Thanks to Xeno for inviting me and to everyone else who came. Some very fun matches, although a lot of stupid stuff happened too lol I started getting pretty lucky near the end of the night with random Doc spikes and what not. Too bad we didn't get any Brawl singles matches it would have been fun to try my luck against Simon's Meta (I'm pretty sure he would win).

Hope the tournament went well!

It was nice to meet you too Kyle, and as usual when we play Americans...get owned by you Fun matches were indeed had by all... I love losing in Melee makes me wanna play more.

 

[xeno]

EVO 2008 Grand Finals CPU vs Ken with some items:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWWfOD9Cupw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlU6hcmeXYQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFcnnPtUhGw&feature=related
more interesting? yes. fun? i'd hate to be on the receiving end of a final smash z_z

Best quote: "The rigors of tournament play are teaching people a lot about Smash Brothers Brawl with items"

 

[Kulla]

Those games completly came down to who got the smash ball... lame

 

[CRUMBS]

only thing i found entertaining was when ken got bumper comboed.

CPU = spot dodge spot dodge downsmash...yay

commentators were lol

 

[IGIF.PAIN]

HEY shaya, congratzamalations on a pro tournie,even for brawl and yes i dont mind brawl now it was ok. On the matter of items WA TEH GIANT ***** ARE YOU GUYS THINKING ? OK I ACCEPTED THE FRIKEN BRAWL FACTOR AND MELLE DUMBING DOWN SLIGHTLY OK I GOT IT , YOU GUYS LIKE BRAWL NOW AND ONLY LIKE ME AND A FEW OTHERS WERE WILLING TO STICK IT TO THE MAN BY PLAYING MELEE BUT HONETSLY PEOPLE ITEMS, YOUR SAYING TO WANT MORE TECHNIQALLITY WELL HOW BOUT YOU ALL GROW A PAIR AND PLAY A REAL GAME, MELEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! INSTEAD OF A GAME YOUR TRYING TO MAKE MORE TECHINIQUEL BY ADDING THE THING THAT MOST OTHER GAMERS TRY TO LAUGH AT SMAS ABOUT,.

 

[M]

Hmm... well, seeing the pros play items it suddenly doesn't seem like Final smashes are so great... Still, items look like they make the matches a bit more intense and less defensive. I'm still a little undecided on it being the norm for tourneys, but I only play smash for fun anyways...

lol, are my ears deceiving me or did I hear "no meta knights in the top 8"?

 

[xeno]

Hmm... well, seeing the pros play items it suddenly doesn't seem like Final smashes are so great... Still, items look like they make the matches a bit more intense and less defensive. I'm still a little undecided on it being the norm for tourneys, but I only play smash for fun anyways...

lol, are my ears deceiving me or did I hear "no meta knights in the top 8"?

That's correct, no Metas in Top 8. Upon closer inspection you'll find that only TWO pros from the area went to Evo Brawl. Who cares what they play anyways z_z but, they aren't exactly picking up Brawl with a storm.

 

[unreon]

@ unreon: ive started doing bjj recently. most fun ive had in years. nice vid, although flying submissions hardly ever work. apart from that one guy who got an ankle lock on anderson silva in pride, i think it was haha.

not a big fan of armbars. i cant get them at all.

That scissors lock was UNBELIEVABLE on Silva O.o Too bad nobody can beat him at his current game.

There have been plenty of flying submissions over the years. Rumino Sato scored a SICK flying armbar six seconds into the first round, he also managed to pull a flying triangle choke too. I've seen stuff as wicked as a flying rear naked choke.

If you don't like armbars how do you win? O.o

Fonti, next time I see you we're rolling :D

 

[IGIF.PAIN]

er... just once can we have page of a dicussion that doesnt revolve around making smashboards noobier like one bout melee and actually good brawl, the one like at shayas tournie when you cut the tension between BJAY and KULLA's match with a knife, like that was honestly really impressive but anytime i get really intrigued by impressive brawl, things make it worse, the fact that items are considered....can anyone agree with me.

 

[Dedu]

Errrrr what?

Punctuation, will you please?
hmmm!

 

[Jaz]

well if brawl is not the technical persons game as IGIF HAS SPELLED OUT MANY TIMES

then maybe experimental embracing of childish randomness is a feasible option.
those people that are "true to melee" can stay that way and i spose there will always be arguments about it, the Americans never score the Russians fairly in the olympics, even today ._.
havn't heard many people talking about a melee tourny though.

i'm not organising one .__.

I havn't been working on banners either o.o

 

[ComboTurtle]

no longer travelling to play smash, just cbfed with it and brawl is **** anyways, need to get my life together so im uninstalling wc3 which means no more dota and from that i figured id just play no games at all which means no smash. still <3.

 

[CAOTIC]

Let's see how long that lasts (sets timer)

 

[ComboTurtle]

Let's see how long that lasts (sets timer)

im at about 2 hours atm.

 

[xeno]

I give him 2 days, max. DotA gets installed at midnight tonight.

 

[Bjay]

gl Tom! Will you still be on the boards?

 

[xeno]

He probably started playing World of Warcraft and is just embarrassed to admit it :D

 

[CAOTIC]

Quitting videogames is pretty hard... expecially if you live in Wollongong <3

 

[Dedu]

And have no other option to enjoy your nite yeah.

Better move up to sydney soon tom!

 

[xeno]

Remove the <3 from Cao's posts and you'll find a lot of sarcasm . Move to Sydney Tom!

 

[Berimbau]

aww turtle. im gonna miss you! <3333

gl

 

[CAOTIC]

i miss pat and turtle equally

 

[Berimbau]

sif u dont miss me more

 

[Dedu]

sifnt pat.

Cao wubs all!
hmmm!

 

[xeno]

Hey Sydney, I started a writing blog! You can read my short stories and other writings at ragecreations.blogspot.com

 

[CAOTIC]

Hey Sydney! See Forky and Fonti Melbournising it in my sig of Amateur Photography - will be adding more as the trip progresses

I am going to read Xeno's things cus I like reading

 

[xeno]

I looked through your photography album, nice stuff! Scene of the people eating outdoors with the city backdrop and the next one, busy streets = my favorites.

 

[xeno]

Anyone want to play Melee this weekend?

 

[Gords]

Anyone want to play Melee this weekend?

Day, time, location?

I'm definatey interested although I am no longer that good at melee but I would love to get back into it relearn all those advanced techs. And get them to run smoothly again.

 

[xeno]

Where do you live? I'm in Camperdown between Newtown and Glebe