Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[ShortcutButton]

So, will v2.0 pick up voting from this list, or will everyone get a clean slate?

 

[90007000]

Go Captain Falcon! +1

 

[Browny]

So, will v2.0 pick up voting from this list, or will everyone get a clean slate?

Clean slate. It would only take a few weeks of votes to get every character back into position anyway.

 

[Vipermoon]

I really hope it doesn't happen this way. I've said this before:

We NEED separate voted tier lists for customs and no customs. Even if every tournament ever from now on allows customs, it is still a great idea to rate characters without customs both for Smash tradition reasons and the ability to say "this character gets a lot better/worse with customs". It is really important that 2.0 continues the work we put in on 1.0 by having separate lists that aren't clouded by a switch to customs.

We can either make a separate thread with the same rules (better idea) or we can vote for two things at once in this thread. Whatever it is, there must be two.

I'd like to also say that I agree that there are too many tiers. The lower characters really aren't "low" in this game.

Clean slate. It would only take a few weeks of votes to get every character back into position anyway.

Can we do separate tier lists for customs on/off?

Thanks.

 

[Browny]

We will see what happens later on.

I for one believe that this games future is customs-on dependent, such that a custom-off list is pointless. I think EVO will show that customs are SO MUCH BETTER that no one will ever run a no-customs tournament again, they'll be harassed until they allow it.

When the next list starts up I'll think about it some more. I dont plan on starting this up again for a few months.

 

[Vipermoon]

We will see what happens later on.

I for one believe that this games future is customs-on dependent, such that a custom-off list is pointless. I think EVO will show that customs are SO MUCH BETTER that no one will ever run a no-customs tournament again, they'll be harassed until they allow it.

When the next list starts up I'll think about it some more. I dont plan on starting this up again for a few months.

Right. But as I said, even if we never see a no customs tourament every again (still unlikely, but not the point) I believe it is really important to continue with a no customs tier list for the reasons I mentioned.

 

[AirJordans]

Right. But as I said, even if we never see a no customs tourament every again (still unlikely, but not the point) I believe it is really important to continue with a no customs tier list for the reasons I mentioned.

I don't really think it gives that much information to do that. It's not like we're making a different tier list for every custom move-set you could have. If customs are a thing there's no reason to have a wholly 1111(or whatever the default moves are) tier list just for the sake of being able to see which characters are "generally better/worse" once you turn customs on.

 

[Vipermoon]

I don't really think it gives that much information to do that. It's not like we're making a different tier list for every custom move-set you could have. If customs are a thing there's no reason to have a wholly 1111(or whatever the default moves are) tier list just for the sake of being able to see which characters are "generally better/worse" once you turn customs on.

It's important to have tier lists with the same cirumstances as previous games in my opinion.

I love custom moves but I view that version as a different game. The ability to change your specials is something so huge that it deserves to be separated from traditional Smash.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Go Captain Falcon! +1

You're cute.

 

[ICXCM]

Why not just vote for a character inclusive of customs.

 

[Doruge]

It's important to have tier lists

No, it's not.

 

[Vipermoon]

No, it's not.

Lol that is a separate topic and I pretty much agree with you. But if you're going to have one I say have both.

 

[sogeki]

If Diddy does get nerfed, I'm expecting him to go down to C tier AT MOST. If they nerf the hoo hah, and maybe slow him down a bit.

Edit: Speaking of C tier, I fail to see how Wario is bottom of the C tier.

 

[AirJordans]

Why not just vote for a character inclusive of customs.

He's literally been explaining that the entire time. I'm not compelled by his point myself either but once again people in this thread need to read at least the part of the conversation at hand and the thread title. I really can't believe people are voting still. I'm sure some are jokes, but for the others- jesus christ.

If Diddy does get nerfed, I'm expecting him to go down to C tier AT MOST. If they nerf the hoo hah, and maybe slow him down a bit.

You think those two things stand between him being the super power of this game and C tier is the hoo-hah and a little speed? I think not.

 

[Browny]

I think so, quite a lot.

If you take away the hoo-hah, diddy LITERALLY has to hit you twice as many times per stock to KO you, and his average KO % goes up by somewhere around 20%. As it stands, diddy only has to land 5 grabs to KO most characters. each hoohah is around 15-25% damage and it can kill at low as 90%.

A nerf to that combo means he would now have to hit people 10+ times per stock, and the KO % is now tied more to his fsmash.

If that sounds outrageous to you, put it this way, Imagine if all of ganondorfs attacks now did a minimum of 25% and dash attack and Uair start to kill at 70%. That is the same level of a buff, as a nerf to diddy would be in removing the hoohah. You halve diddys damage output, double ganons output, its an equal level change.

 

[jaketheknight]

I'm not really seeing it in the OP, and it was probably asked before, but what are we doing about Mewtwo and Lucas?

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I think so, quite a lot.

If you take away the hoo-hah, diddy LITERALLY has to hit you twice as many times per stock to KO you, and his average KO % goes up by somewhere around 20%. As it stands, diddy only has to land 5 grabs to KO most characters. each hoohah is around 15-25% damage and it can kill at low as 90%.

A nerf to that combo means he would now have to hit people 10+ times per stock, and the KO % is now tied more to his fsmash.

If that sounds outrageous to you, put it this way, Imagine if all of ganondorfs attacks now did a minimum of 25% and dash attack and Uair start to kill at 70%. That is the same level of a buff, as a nerf to diddy would be in removing the hoohah. You halve diddys damage output, double ganons output, its an equal level change.

This.
Diddy is more outrageous than people think.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Anyone else notice how the spammiest characters are in the middle tier?

 

[Doruge]

I think so, quite a lot.

If you take away the hoo-hah, diddy LITERALLY has to hit you twice as many times per stock to KO you, and his average KO % goes up by somewhere around 20%. As it stands, diddy only has to land 5 grabs to KO most characters. each hoohah is around 15-25% damage and it can kill at low as 90%.

A nerf to that combo means he would now have to hit people 10+ times per stock, and the KO % is now tied more to his fsmash.

If that sounds outrageous to you, put it this way, Imagine if all of ganondorfs attacks now did a minimum of 25% and dash attack and Uair start to kill at 70%. That is the same level of a buff, as a nerf to diddy would be in removing the hoohah. You halve diddys damage output, double ganons output, its an equal level change.

The fact that people still have this mentality is somewhat sickening.

Diddy is far, far more than a simple 15% combo.

 

[Browny]

lol ok

Just like how ICs are far, far more than a 0-death character

Metaknight was far, far more than a dair camping to tornado blueberry

The fact is, diddy gets the vast majority of his damage and his KO's from a grab. He is still a good character without them, but his output is realistically halved if you take it out. If you remove the hoo-hah you have effectively doubled the % at which he has to take characters to kill them. he now has to deal at least 180% before KO'ing anyone.

Its simple maths. halve his damage, he has to hit you twice as much. It is a truly gigantic nerf if they take it out. He is still a good character but people have to work twice as hard to win now.

 

[Doruge]

he now has to deal at least 180% before KO'ing anyone.

Yeah ok. I think I'm done with this conversation.

Not to mention comparing dthrow upair to IC's infinites...

 

[Vipermoon]

Yeah ok. I think I'm done with this conversation.

Not to mention comparing dthrow upair to IC's infinites...

IKR? Seriously. I cannot believe I actually read that. A good Diddy will deal most of his damage from F-air and without throw followups for kills... he has Fsmash - lagless, powerful, great range. I can go on. Most of Diddy's moveset is very good. Just like Brawl - where he did not have Hoo Hah

 

[Sir Tundra]

Well the 1.0.6 patch is here. For those who want to see the changes look no further then: http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-version-1-0-6-thread.398902/.

As of . Mewtwos looking like a really solid character so far.

Hes faster then he was in melee,Has kill setups like up tilt to up smash and side b to f smash/shadow ball although i've been doing this in training mode so im not sure if this is confirmed, up throw kills, and aerials have very little lag and can be auto canceled. only thing he lacks is a combo throw however he can combo off of down til, up tilt, and side b so it aint that big of a deal.

Note this is all day 1 impressions so their are things to still be discovered as of right now

Edit: You can jump out of side b

 

[New_Dumal]

Can we please put Pit/D.Pit as "one" (Pit and D.Pit after him), this time ?
Vote would be given in them as : +1 , or -1 ....

 

[aethermaster]

So I have a question and I don't know where else to ask this but here. Since the patch, what do you think that means for Diddy's tier list rating? I know we have to wait for tournaments to decide but do you guys think this means he is no longer S tier?

 

[New_Dumal]

I think everyone at high tier is now in "A" tier.
Sheik's bair nerf and Diddy nerfs take them away from S.
Sonic nerfs take him down a bit too, but not enough to take him off the high tier.

 

[Sir Tundra]

I think the nerfs to diddy don't really affect him much. He still can HOO HA but it can no longer kill at 90-130%. Diddy still has glide toss banana throw to f smash which is a really good kill setup. As well as those ridiculous techs like super crawling and popgun reverse cancelling. Despite the nerfs diddys still S tier imo, he just has to work harder in order to get a kill now.

 

[SoniCraft]

Well if he has to work harder to get kills I think that warrants a demotion to "A" tier(still really good).

 

[MapleBeasts]

I think the nerfs to diddy don't really affect him much. He still can HOO HA but it can no longer kill at 90-130%. Diddy still has glide toss banana throw to f smash which is a really good kill setup. As well as those ridiculous techs like super crawling and popgun reverse cancelling. Despite the nerfs diddys still S tier imo, he just has to work harder in order to get a kill now.

I agree to an extent. He still has plenty of combo potential, and nice set ups and stage cntrol with banana, but too many moves received damage or knock back nerfs for him to stay in S tier imo. I find that Diddy now has a little too much trouble killing at around 100% like he could before. Reduced knock back and damage on uair and fair has hurt his air game, and the reduced hitstun on dthrow has made it a fair bit more difficult for combo set ups out of it. His recovery remains atrocious, and requires charging for any meaningful distance. I find him rather easy to gimp, and his light weight on top of poor recovery means early deaths. He's still a fantastic character though, easily A tier, but I don't think he's the monster we've seen in the last 5 or so months of competitive play.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Why isn't there tons of discussion going on? I mean, the game was just readjusted and such!
Plus we got Mewtwo...o.o

 

[LaunchStar]

I hope Mr. G&W becomes more relevant in the meta-game, he's pretty fun and unique.
That being said... he's got some drawbacks.

 

[Deleted member]

Since ROB and Sonic have lost their kill throws in 1.0.6, where do you all think they're going to fall on the next tier list?

 

[Ze Diglett]

Eh, R.O.B.'s Up-Throw is still a very potent kill move, just at a bit higher %. It's not like R.O.B. has a difficult time racking up % anyway, so I can't see it bumping him down more than a few character spots on the list, especially considering everything else R.O.B. still has going for him.
If anything, we should all feel worse for Sonic. Poor rascal got more than just his kill throw nerfed. Party time!

 

[sogeki]

So when are we gonna start voting?

 

[LunarWingCloud]

So when are we gonna start voting?

Lol not any time soon.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I'm interested as to where you guys see Mewtwo placing on our current tier list? For right now, I think it's safe to put him in the D or E tier until his meta is further developed.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

I believe we're voting on Mewtwo's placement in around a month. Not everyone even as him yet. So too soon for any kind of placing anywhere.

 

[sogeki]

I'm interested as to where you guys see Mewtwo placing on our current tier list? For right now, I think it's safe to put him in the D or E tier until his meta is further developed.

Mewtwo in E or D? So far, he's at least mid C for me.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

This may be the place for that discussion, but it certainly isn't the time.

 

[memoryman3]

I have a gut feeling that since and were barely changed, they would be at top tier. Especially with Mario's combos and Rosalina's high defence stat and Luma puppetry