Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Meccs]

5th? Neat. I agree with 1-4, then 5-9 seem somewhat interchangeable. Looks solid overall.

 

[J.Noble]

Spoiler

Its time (BUT SO EARLY) for the community voted tier list again! I did this for brawl over a period of a year and it became very popular with well over 1000 votes cast. I await the day the mods allow me to move this into the competitive forum where it belongs

In this spoiler is a big long explanation of how phase one of this process works

Spoiler

For new players or those that didnt take part in the brawl one, I do this because I have an immeasurable dislike for how Smash tier lists are formed. I am a big fan of the iterative process instead of the vote > average > list process. Iteration is a slower process but allows for more refined adjustments for each and every character movement before the list is looked at as a whole, and the process is repeated. It is a holistic process, designed to make a tier list factoring in many aspects.

This is my method, it is long but it is comprehensive and fun for people who get involved.

All characters start at an equal rating for a clean slate and will move up and down every update. Ideally we want a rank of characters completely individual with no sharing of a position however multiple characters can occupy the same spot.

Twice per week, every week, all members of SWF are welcome to post no more than THREE characters, and a direction they want to send them. Either +1 or -1. You can vote on any number less than three. Members are encouraged to spend their 3 votes on the characters they feel are most out of place. If you think 10 characters should go up and 10 should go down, pick the 3 that you feel are in most need of the boost.

Base your votes on ANYTHING you want. This is a community list. If you think tourney results are all that matters, use them. If your scene has a lot of a certain character and you cant beat them, vote them up. Put characters where YOU think they should be, not where everyone else does.

At the end of each voting period (at this stage it will be every monday and friday, but may become weekly) I will tally up every single vote. All characters who receive more + votes than – votes go up 1 position and vice versa. In cases of a character getting equal number, they wont move. For example if DK receives ten +1 votes but only one -1 vote, he will move up one spot. No character can ever move more than 1 spot at a time. A character however can be multiple places higher than others and move down, it will still only go down one.

Of course, each person can only vote once per period. Multiple votes in the same period are ignored, only the first counts.

This is an example of the required reply to this thread. At this point in time the maximum amount of votes is THREE per period. I will update the thread title when a new voting period begins.

DK +1
Ness -1
Mario -1

You are allowed to do any combination of + and – votes if you want, 3 + and 0 – votes is perfectly fine. Remember only +1 or -1 votes allowed!

Over time the tier list will spread out and characters will fit into their places.

We want to spread the list out so that every character is in their own position, we will worry about the grouping for tiers later and dont get complacent! Any character can be moved at any time with enough down votes.

If Diddy is sitting at #1 and in one update period he gets a single downvote and no one +1'd him, he could get sent down to #2 while the #2 character could overtake him. That's part of the fun! It keeps this list highly dynamic.

A final note on phase one, at any time I can change the maximum required number of votes. It will usually be between 3 and 5, it starts off at 5 to get things moving.

Spoiler

And this is phase 2 to create an actual list with tiers and characters in order

Spoiler

Phase 2 will happen when we move to finalise the list.

I will give 3 weeks notice before cutting off voting and cementing the list where I will break the list down into tiers based on the characters' positions.

Here a new phase of voting begins. People vote to organise the position of each character in each tier. We vote to break up the characters into about 5-8 tiers before voting on each tier, one at a time. Say for example we decide that a tier consists of these characters

This is how they finished when the voting ended. From here, we vote on the order of the characters but the rule is no character can move more than TWO spaces away from where they are.

A vote would look like this


I then simply average out the votes to come up with the final position. Think of it as each character is being ranked 1-8, I just average out the number with the only rule being no character can move more than 2 spaces.

The reason for this is many times people write a tier list and then after its complete, they realise that although one character is better than another, overall, they are probably lower factoring in matchup spread etc.

At the end of this phase two, the SWF Community Tier List Version 1.0 will be created. A short break and we begin version 2.0

Ideally we will create a list every 3-4 months.

ITS TAKEN OVER 4 MONTHS, BUT THIS IS IT FOR VERSION 1.0 OF THE LIST. WE HAD TO DRAW A LINE SOMEWHERE, I KNOW PEOPLE WANTED IT TO CONTINUE BUT I WANT A BREAK FROM MANAGING THIS FOR A WHILE. THAT SAID, HERE IT IS

S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

In the final round, Wario and Sonic both got gigantic amount of votes upwards and downwards respectively, however they can only move so far. Villager was the next highest but he didnt get enough votes to overtake too many people.

*phew*

 

[Jiggly]

welcome to smashboards!

 

[PKMudkip]

Should we wait until Lucas comes to make version 2.0 of this tier list.

 

[Jiggly]

I'm honestly afrad of waiting, bcause I'm expecting balance patches every/every other DLC character released

 

[Zerp]

I'm honestly afrad of waiting, bcause I'm expecting balance patches every/every other DLC character released

I'll second this notion, if we wait alot of the data and experience in this patch will never get used in a tier list, then people will want to wait for next patch/character and we never get a list out because wer'e always anticipating the next big thing instead of the focusing on the present.

 

[Jiggly]

I'll second this notion, if we wait alot of the data and experience in this patch will never get used in a tier list, then people will want to wait for next patch/character and we never get a list out because wer'e always anticipating the next big thing instead of the focusing on the present.

i feel like the longest we should wait is 2 weeks a patch. If after voting we get a large consensus something needs change, then we could change it. I understand if it is hard for you to update @ Browny , but I think this midnset of waiting for things to settle is unhealthy, as we probably won't be settled very long with a single patch for a while. We as a community are used to things being steady, and I think that we need to get out of that mindset and constantly develop

 

[Browny]

The issue is that ideally each list will take a few months to form, I dont want to start making it when I know a patch is incoming in a few months. Lucas coming so soon after 1.0.6 really messes things up.

 

[MandL27]

The issue is that ideally each list will take a few months to form, I dont want to start making it when I know a patch is incoming in a few months. Lucas coming so soon after 1.0.6 really messes things up.

So in other words, until there's a lull in the DLC, this list will forever be a WIP? (by DLC I mean patches in general)
Also, at what point do you think matchup charts will be available?

 

[ChiePet]

My Biggest concerns for this list is Placement gets effected by patching.
Obviously everyone's concerns, as well; My only real question to this is were changes made in the Mewtwo Patch enough to bring Diddy, Sheik, and Sonic down any?

For Future threads involving tiers in this game, I +2 Lucina, +1 Peach, -1 Rosetta, and +1 Mewtwo.
Lucina isn't bad. She suffers from design choices but utterly the pilot's fault she has such low placement, and with the buffs recieved, she deserves a high placement. Peach is in every game not-melee going to be placed lower due to lack of character interest and high tech skill ceiling [quitters never win cough] so I'll always +1 to her. Rosalina I have to upsettingly -1 because of her CONSTANT nerfs. and Mewtwo because he's in the same boat with ness as far as rising aerials and potential, but with a better recover and more control, I believe he'll be up in the A-Rank in no time.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

where's the new list after the patch?

 

[Browny]

I think its worth waiting until after Lucas comes out before doing this again because hes going to come with a balance patch too and its not that far away.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

I think its worth waiting until after Lucas comes out before doing this again because hes going to come with a balance patch too and its not that far away.

Because 2 months isn't a long time. lol

 

[Jiggly]

I think its worth waiting until after Lucas comes out before doing this again because hes going to come with a balance patch too and its not that far away.

Are you sure he comes with a patch? That wasn't confirmed at all...

 

[Zerp]

I think its worth waiting until after Lucas comes out before doing this again because hes going to come with a balance patch too and its not that far away.

I can see where your coming from, but I'm kinda concerned that there won't be a period of time "long enough" in between patches, since Mr. Sakurai has started making DLC and he's pretty good at keeping a steady stream of hype/ announcements that might be accompanied by patches. I'm not saying this is what will happen, but we should be able to at least have a plan, if it is the case.

Also, on a unrelated note, thank you for your time and effort maintaining this thread and tier list, I'm sure it gets obnoxious having to tally up all those points, and making sure the rules are followed. You've done a pretty awesome job running it, and I'd like to thank you for it .

 

[tennissnowball]

Ike +1
Pac-Man +1
Kirby +1

 

[Elias Lavanhar]

Why do all the lists crap on Robin and Ike? I think they are pretty good.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Why do all the lists crap on Robin and Ike? I think they are pretty good.

Because people think only fast characters can be good, and if a character is slow, they're instantly limited to top of mid tier at best. Bonus points if that character has multiple projectiles like Robin does, because people also have an irrational hatred for projectiles of any kind.

 

[Vipermoon]

Robin is actually really bad. If anyone knows his frame data like I do they would agree with me.

 

[xTheSilverStar]

The best character right now is debatable between and .

It's hard to say where the meta is going to go from here.

Sheik played perfectly can beat every character in the game, but you have to take into account tournament results thus far. Obviously Rosa is even easier to use effectively. Believe it or not, you have to think less with Rosa and throw out more hitboxes.

what about

 

[SpottedCerberus]

what about

Diddy is still top tier, but he's just not as dangerous as he used to be.

 

[DrChops]

I think its worth waiting until after Lucas comes out before doing this again because hes going to come with a balance patch too and its not that far away.

I disagree, but it's your list. We don't know what the DLC landscape looks like after the Lucas patch, but it sounds like there will probably be another patch 2 months after the Lucas patch. The Character Ballot isn't over till October, so I'd bet Nintendo has DLC planned till then and introduce more DLC with the ballot characters after October. I think you just have to accept that this list will always be a WIP because things will be changing for a long time (or at least, the next year).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I think its worth waiting until after Lucas comes out before doing this again because hes going to come with a balance patch too and its not that far away.

Agreed


But the bad news is this.

June is very likely for E3

And i would not be suprised one bit if another dlc character number 3 got announced at E3. (Or should i say wolf or ryu or roy get announed at E3)

 

[HappyBear801]

Agreed


But the bad news is this.

June is very likely for E3

And i would not be suprised one bit if another dlc character number 3 got announced at E3. (Or should i say wolf or ryu or roy get announed at E3)

Wolf is almost certain, I mean, with the new StarFox game getting showcased and all (and perhaps Wolf could be in that game too).

 

[Browny]

If Sakurai or whoever announces another character coming, then I'm not going to delay it further, I will start this again once the Lucas DLC/patch comes out.

 

[LRodC]

I know this was only the first version of this list, but is there any reason why Dark Pit and Pit are an entire tier separated from each other despite being mostly the same? That makes zero sense to me.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Cause that's the way people voted I guess

 

[WarioJim]

Cause that's the way people voted I guess

I must say that the 2nd half of your Etika GIF is I how I feel about some of the placements for the 2nd half of this tier list!
It's a good GIF, don't get me wrong!
-
--(This next section is not directed at you. Don't worry 'bout that )
-
Now, I'm questioning the way people voted on this thread...

Should be a little higher (though my way would have him a lot higher). Should be higher, if you ask me.
But then there's . Like, really people? Are you guys OK? HE'S FAR TOO LOW! At minimum, he should top E or low D. I know this is a community voting tier list, but how can people honestly think he's worse than DOC!?

Yes, some annoyance here, but I thought it would be better to say something about it as opposed to keeping quiet. Again, that GIF...

 

[MintChipper]

This doesn't involve customs does it? If it doesn't involve customs why is Mii Brawler ranked so high?

Should be a little higher (though my way would have him a lot higher). Should be higher, if you ask me.

All too true.

 

[SoniCraft]

Honestly this tier list probably shouldn't have a tier lower than F, and only a few characters should be in F, like Zelda, Mii Swordfighter, and maybe a couple others.

 

[HappyBear801]

Honestly this tier list probably shouldn't have a tier lower than F, and only a few characters should be in F, like Zelda, Mii Swordfighter, and maybe a couple others.

Zelda shouldn't be in F. She may be hard, I'm quite bad with her myself, but I've seen stuff people can do with Zelda. It's incredicble. Mii Swordfighter...yeah he's not that good. Worst character is the Doc though. Just play Mario; he's ultimately better. And if you like his Down+B main both Mario and Luigi, or have Luigi as a secondary (to the people out there still choosing ).

 

[Sir Bubbles]

Zelda shouldn't be in F. She may be hard, I'm quite bad with her myself, but I've seen stuff people can do with Zelda. It's incredicble. Mii Swordfighter...yeah he's not that good. Worst character is the Doc though. Just play Mario; he's ultimately better. And if you like his Down+B main both Mario and Luigi, or have Luigi as a secondary (to the people out there still choosing ).

I don't think Doc's the worst character in the game. His neutral isn't as bad as everybody thinks it is, he can extend basic combo strings with D-tilt, has a nice out of sheild option within Up-B and Upsmash, resulting in a good KO game.

 

[ElectricBlade]

I know this was only the first version of this list, but is there any reason why Dark Pit and Pit are an entire tier separated from each other despite being mostly the same? That makes zero sense to me.

I assume it's from the lack of representation of well, both the pit's in japan. They don't have Nairo to show off the skill of alot of characters (specifically Dark pit in this situation) and I guess from an first glance standpoint Pit's good points are superior to Dark Pits, Pretty much Pit combos more but has more dependance on edge guarding to get kills, though Dark pit does have one thing that many smash 4 characters lack..Kill power! Which will probably help make them closer in the tier list in the future.

 

[ShortcutButton]

Zelda shouldn't be in F. She may be hard, I'm quite bad with her myself, but I've seen stuff people can do with Zelda. It's incredicble.

I know Cosmo... got anybody else?

though Dark pit does have one thing that many smash 4 characters lack..Kill power! Which will probably help make them closer in the tier list in the future.

Interesting point, care to elaborate?

 

[ElectricBlade]

Interesting point, care to elaborate?[/quote]
Went and tested the Pits kill percents against a Mario on the edge of FD

Pitoo's Kill percents
B-throw=155%
U-throw=200%
F-smash = 90%
U-smash= 120%

Pit's Kill percents
B-throw = 155%
U-throw = 220%
F-smash = 100%
U-smash = 140%


(Keep in mind these percentages were really briefly tested) The kill percentage are pretty differentish? I cant till if that extra 15%ish faster killing is worth abit of a weaker arrow game,or edge guarding in genera

 

[Morgan S. Court]

At least with the latest update-

Diddy-1
Shiek-1
Yoshi-1
Luigi+1
Lucario+2
Dedede+3
Robin+1
Bowser+2
Jiggly+2
Mac+2
Dark Pit+1
Marmar/Lucy+2
Bowser Jr.+2
Samus+4
Meta-knight+2
Kirby+1
Pikachu-1

This is just my opinion but for the sake of accuracy, I typically personally rate characters on a scale of C-A with +'s and -'s, as every character has ups and downs which can both be utilized by the player and exploited by the enemy.

 

[A10theHero]

Pikachu-1

Pikachu gets no real nerfs. -1
Alright then.

 

[Morgan S. Court]

Robin is actually really bad. If anyone knows his frame data like I do they would agree with me.

As a Robin main, I am well aware that she has lots of drawbacks and I think she needs buffing but I assure you, she has plenty of strengths to compensate, at least in my experience. ಠ_ಠ

I'm almost done with a Robin guide but I assure you, I am able to make my friends rage fair enough with her.

 

[Morgan S. Court]

Pikachu gets no real nerfs. -1
Alright then.

Eh, Pikachu may not necessarily get nerfs but it doesn't quite feel like A tier material.

 

[Vipermoon]

No character deserves F tier. Nor E. Not even the Miis